Toyota Highlander Hybrid

pcrit

The first thing I did when we purchased a non-hybrid Ltd last Feb was to replace the Goodyear tires with Michelin, as the Goodyear integrity tires have a poor wear record (from my experience and poor record on www.tirerack.com). I can’t even “give” those Goodyear tires away, they’re still stacked in my garge! Anyway, my question is, which tires are being shipped on the Ltd HH AWD? Our HH is due in 2 weeks, and I’ve seen some advertised with Michelins, others with Goodyear. Just wondering…

hhva

My Hh (delivered 7/20/'05) came with Michelins.

skip1

Mine also came with Michelins 6-28.

sunbyrne

Our HH, delivered 8/13, came with Goodyears.

pcrit

Sounds like it's hit/miss on getting the Michelins. I'll just keep my fingers crossed that the 17" wheels on my Ltd comes with Michelins

cdptrap

Our ltd 4wd came with Goodyear Integrity.

1aardvark

Ours came with Michelins - 08/12. Been running 34 lbs pressure. Rides great

mmreid

My HH Ltd (bought 6/20) came with Michelins. I had to go out and look. Speaking of tires, we had a discussion earlier that factory recommended PSI was 32 but other folks seem to be upping that to 34 or 35. For in town driving what would you wiser folks recommend and for the 1000 mile round trip starting Sunday, should I change whatever you recommend for highway? Husband's comment about PSI was it can really affect the comfort level and feel of the ride (he sets his BMW at very different PSI than recommended for the tires) but I'm more interested in mpg.

Side comment: business acquaintance of my husband from south Florida knew we had bought the HH Ltd and said he just saw one at a dealership in Ft. Lauderdale for $9,000 over invoice - something they called dealer premium or some such nonesense. I asked my husband if guy was mistaken but he swears that was the asking price. He just talked to the guy the other day. He was asking my husband how much over we had to pay and hubby said sticker price and he was flabbergsted. . .

mmreid

hhva

My Hh was delivered with 41 lbs. of pressure in the Michelins. I'm running 38 now. Our '02 Highlander Ltd. came with Bridgestone Dueler HTs which performed well except for wearing out at 23k. I think the 17" alloys on the Ltd. are some of the best looking wheels Toyota has ever made. I'm still trying to get used to the running boards.

pcrit

Thanks for all the replys. I guess there is no way to know which tires it will come with, one on 8/12 comes with Goodyear, and one on 8/13 comes with Michelins. Either way, I'll be happy, if it comes with Goodyear, I can swap them out at 20K with a new set laying in my garage

By the way, I run 34PSI in my Michelins now, seems to be just fine and I aggree with you that the 17" alloys are really nice looking.

pcrit

It does look like Toyota is starting to ship Ltds w/o the NAV systems. I've been waiting for AWD HH to arrive in my region in either the Base or Ltd w/o NAV system. There are 3 or 4 of these (Ltd, No NAV) due towards the end of Sep in the southeast region (I'm in Atlanta). My Gold AWD Ltd w/o NAV is due in on 9/28.

hhva

Our Hh Ltd. was delivered 7/20/05 in Southside Virginia w/o Nav/DVD. I figure to save $1K when we get an aftermarket Garmin or (?) other system. Have not done the research yet. Hope CR does it for me soon.

mike4698

We have Michelins on our LTD Bluestone HH AWD.

Mike

pcrit

I'm with you, and intend on saving a bunch by buying an aftermarket GPS which I can swap out between vehicles. By the way, Garmin makes a fine unit, but check out the Lowrance iWay 500c system too. It's around $600, large screen and has 10GB storage for MP3 files (down load via USB from your home computer), if you are into that.

idaten

Michelins on our 9/11 delivered silver ltd awd nav, i believe. they seem fine, surprisingly quiet. It seems strange that they're mixing them, unless there's a by-coast difference or some other geographic reason.

the wait here in the SF / east bay was just under 5 months, at msrp. it did come with a couple of options that we didn't ask for - the glass breakage sensor (which doesn't seem like a bad idea) and an exhaust tip (my wife had a good laugh).

does anyone here know if the obc mpg indicated on the nav is based on 'tank level' or quantity of 'fuel metered'? Just doing a bit of reverse engineering thinking, i'll guess the latter. We're only at 150 miles - at an indicated 29.1 mpg, i'm really happy.

i'm really surprised at the cleverness of design in the HH. i haven't been this excited about a new car - ever.

rick

pcrit

You might be right, it could be a regional "thing" as to which tires. I was on the list from 2 dealers, but found one (actually 3) just by cruising the weekly inventories from local dealers which were not spoken for, both were AWD Ltd models. I also paid MSRP, and was able to get the dealer to drop the $619 Toyoguard since he hadn't taken possesion yet.

sparklemahn

The Limited 4wd-i weighs in at 4230 lbs. It's got mass! :P

sparklemahn

Michelin

dewey

http://www.forbes.com/facesinthenews/2005/09/13/toyota-prius-hybrid-cx_cn_0913autofacescan- 07.html?partner=yahootix

Based on Forbes article above, expect future HH prices to deflate. Toyota is pretty serious about cutting hybrid manufacturing costs and passing the savings to consumers!

idaten

... of course the article says "closing the price gap" which *could* mean raising the non-hybrid price, :-).
i hope the prices do come down. i don't regard our HH as an investment anyway, as we drive 'em till the wheels fall off. I'd guess that the prices will shrink in the Scion level cars, where there is presumably more pressure.
what I wish Toyota would do is make a bold statement that there will be an upgrade path for us adventuring souls, including new battery pack technology when the old ones wear out, software upgrades, and pluggability. I wouldn't expect this to be a warranty type operation I'd gladly pay $5K for a 2-3x-he-present-capacity-in-kwh, as opposed to a 3K replacement of the as-original pack, when the time comes (or before!). I'd gladly pay $2K to make it pluggable. I'd gladly pay hundreds of dollars per year on upgrades software. And so on.
i suspect there are many of us out there in the same mind. maybe we should all raise our voices on this one. I suspect Toyota R&D may already be listening.

rick

cdptrap

idaten

I wholehartedly support the upgrad path appraoch. May be we can return our HH to a Toyota certified shop for an upgrade where they change wires (gauge), batteries, gears, software and other eletronics. We now get a HH Mark II that supports plug-in, can run on electric from 0 to 48 MPH with no engine warm-up. If this upgrade improves fuel efficiency to real-world 35 MPG and prolongs car lifespan another 100K miles, I will be willing to plunk down $10K.

Car Mfr should look at modular design where pieces can be swapped to increase or upgrade performance. At some level, especially in higher end models, this can be a decent revenue stream.

markrsmith83

Me, too! I hope Toyota considers that option.

Even just a software update could probably produce some fuel savings.

gazguzler

How much is because it's a hybrid? How much diiferent from the normal H?

Parked next to my 4Runner, it's a tad smaller and I think the 4Runner's 2600lbs.

hsockri

I agree. How about a selector switch or nav screen button for the following.

1. Normal - you know already
2. Eco - force sluggish starts by holding the ICE back.
3. Performance - leave the engine running at stoplight for ultra quick tire chirping gettaways. Allow brake assisted massive burnouts. Fit tires that create colored smoke. (Never mind it's front wheel drive and the driver has to breath in the cloud of carbon and is essentially blind.) Allow taunting engine reving at stop lights...I can't stand the silence.
4. Valet - it goes no better than 20 mph and starts the engine like they would expect. Oh I suppose it could voice the car is 'ready'. But in what language?
5. Teenager - reasonable performance as compared to a prius. (password protected with a tamper log and detailed trip log including GPS points) If it is floored it should quote HAL. "Sorry, I can't do that {insert name here}" If backup sensors detect object aproaching from the rear override limits and GET GOING!!! Of course this leads to the first teanager hack of having a passenger whack the rear bumper to whip ol Betsy into a run.

igh

Why is it so difficult to provide plug-in as an add-on package or separate model
trim in the Highlander hybrids?
All you need is a 10-12Kwh battery and rectifier to convert 110V AC to
battery charging DC. The battery will add some weight which can be
offset by a less powerful ICE, lighter/fewer seats etc. More modules of
the current battery can be used. If Toyota can guarantee a 2-3kWH
battery for 10 years why cant they guarantee a similar 10-12Kwh battery
for 10 years?
The plug-in should have a range of 25-30 miles
on pure electric with a top speed of 65mph. (most freeway limits).
If this is too aggressive even 50mph will do - people may chose not to take
freeways.

When battery is drained to 20% of capacity the car reverts to present
hybrid mode.
All of this technology is already present. Even if it adds 4-5K to the
vechicle many people will be interested. Will Toyota at-least give it
a try? Imagine charging these things with wind or solar. It will take care
of most commutes, grocery trips, doctor's visit, soccer mom needs etc and cut
US's gas consumption by 60% or more. Not to speak of the environmental
impact.

Finally, I would like to point out that Lexus, BMW, Mercedes or many other
luxury car makers are not afraid to come out with these ultra expenensive
vehicles that sell in very low volume but in excess of 60-70K. The emphasis
has always been power, power and more power. Maybe it is time to
come with another line of vehicles where are emphasis is on eco-friendlyness
and less gas consumption. There are enough people with money out there who
also care about the environment.

Toyota guys - are you listening?

IG

hhva

If your 4 Runner is 4WD, it's a lot heavier than 2600 lbs.While the Highlander is a little smaller. it is much more "roomy" inside and may have a 3rd row seat. The main complaint I've observed over the years is that in the 4 Runner, your legs are almost parallel to the floorboard. Not the case w/ the highlander.

hhva

I'm sure the R & D folks have already thought about many of these ideas and in the future some of them may be incorporated into hybrids. If the plug in technology were to come from the factory, I'm sure it will appear in the Prisus first.

But I think they knew exactly what they were after w/ the 400h and Hh. Except not making these vehicles noticeable enough. The Hh offers plenty of room, unsurpassed performance, and 10 to 15 mpg better fuel economy than any competitor (Escape H doesn't compare). Nothing even comes close.

mmreid

Front page of business section this morning has an AP article on how all the big European car makers are going with hybrids in the future (abandoning fuel cell technology as at least a decade down the road) and forming partnerships to promote hybrids. Very interesting. Also a quote from Toyota that eventually 100% of their vehicles would be hybrids (no date given).

I couldn't find a link yet (probably be up by this afternoon) at my paper or the AP website but the article's titled "As gas prices rise, world's automakers embrace hybrids". But it looks like most of these automakers are at least two years away from having actual vehicles available for sale.

mmreid

johnnyroaster

is this the article?

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/050914/germany_auto_show_hybrid_revolution.html?.v=1

I didn't realize that Toyota's sales where up 133%. Pretty impressive when you consider the deals all the other manufacturers are offering right now.

larsb

quote johnnyroaster-"I didn't realize that Toyota's sales where up 133%.-end quote

To clarify, that's just their HYBRID sales versus 2004 same time frame. Meaning Jan thru August 2005 they have sold 133% more Hybrids than they did Jan-Aug 2004.

I think that's what they meant.... :confuse:

gagrice

10 to 15 mpg better fuel economy than any competitor

How many HH drivers are getting 30-35 MPG? I would say the improvement is 2-5 MPG according to those that are keeping track and posting mileage.

johnnyroaster

You are right. They were referring to Prius sales being up 133% the first 8 months this year compared to last year.

sinepman

According to Edmunds they were getting 27 with their vehicle. Others are in the range of 24-27. I have seen some as low as 22. Not bad considering two tons of metal with a high Cd.

gagrice

I agree with that. Compared to the non hybrid Highlander it is not that great. They are rated at 21-22 combined and many report getting that kind of mileage. I was only commenting on the exaggeration of 10-15 MPG better than any competitor. Some one may read this thread and think that was true.

mmreid

Yup, that's the right article. Sometimes stuff takes a few hours to show up on-line. Thanks for finding it.

Question I asked husband after reading it was "are all the other automakers coming up with their own hybrid systems or using what Toyota has already invented?" He just said if they use Toyota's, then Toyota is going to get a piece of every single car the other guys make.

mmreid

gazguzler

My 4Runner (which is 4WD) came out of the factory at 2,900lbs and I managed to remove about 300lbs (before adding a winch, which may have it back near it's previous weight). So, it most definately was 2600lbs and 4WD.

I was hoping I'd fool someone else into the heavylifting but I just worked out the hybrid penalty is 300lbs (3935nonH vs HH4245). Not bad difference . . . until you see an 18-year old 4Runner weighs 1000lbs less.

hhva

I'm sorry. I was talking about city mpg.

CR tested a Chevy Trailblazer EXT 4WD. It got only 9 mpg in the city cycle. The Dodge Durango 4WD got 8 mpg. I know I'm doing 10 to 13 mpg better with my Hh in stop and go (city) driving than these mid sized SUVs are. The new Explorer might do a little better.

CR will probably come in with a lower city mpg for the Hh. The Escape delivered 26 mpg overall in the CR test. They may not use the techniques many posters are indicating they use with hybrids to max out the city mpg.

Of course a Hh won't tow as much as the above. Or go off roading. But all I want is an SUV to carry all our ski gear and get us to any West Virginia ski resort in any kind of weather. Our '02 Highlander excelled at that.

hhva

Excuse me again. I was thinking about the more recent, larger V6, or V8 models.

wwest

Why not add a compressed natural gas tank and a smallish genset, say the Honda EU2000, to continuously charge the hybrid batteries?

Comparatively CHEAP natural gas can compressed and pumped in at home and with no road taxes.

Of how about a total conversion to CNG and a small genset?

cdptrap

Great idea, another one is biodiesel hybrid. If they can solve the emission problem, biodiesel hybrid would be prefect.

explorerx4

what if toyota didn't invent it?

cdptrap

hhva,

I am with you. Depending on car and model, the 10-15 MPG improvement is not an exaggeration.

Our Sienna yielded 20 MPG in heavy school/street driving. This is with really careful coasting in N and light acceleration, all the same tricks we used for stick-shift. If we did nothing, the car returns at best 18 MPG.

Our bought-used and since sold Chevy Silverado V8, when pressed into the same service last year, returned a miserable 12 MPG despite best effort.

Our HH now returns 28 MPG doing the same route. That is a 8-10 MPG improvement over our Sienna and a huge 16 MPG improvement over our Silverado.

On a recent freeway trip from San Jose to Red Bluff and back, we got 29.7 MPG. This compared to our Sienna returning at best 23.8 MPG on the same trip.

Our gut feel says this HH, when it gets to 5000 miles, may actually be able to return 30 MPG on freeway trips.

hhva

Thanks cd.

Our '04, 4wd, auto Tundra D'cab never got more than 16.5 mpg not matter how careful I was. That means all the 4wd Sequoia's are getting about that. Which is pretty good when compared to 10-12 mpg some Envoys, Excursions, etc. get.

The '97 Subura O'back auto never seemed to do better than 22-24 mpg. We sold it and bought a '02 Highlander Ltd. 4wd which would get almost as good as the boxer Subie. My '89 V6 Pathfinder (150hp) 4wd never got better than 17 mpg. I still have that gas log.

I agree that the seasoning of the V6 and electrics may yield better mpg. We are at 4K and climbing and are seeing more 27ish computer readouts. We drove ours pretty hard with only about 400 miles on in during an interstate run to SC. I did vary speed and stopped for about 30 minutes halfway.

These are supreme interstate cruisers; amazing accelaration at 70 mph and merge power to spare.

mmreid

I don't actually know who invented it (hybrid technology) but the articles I did research pretty quickly said that Honda was leasing its hybrid technology from Toyota so they must own some sort of patent or other. Actually, Googling around I pretty quicky discovered that there is a 100 year history to hybrids/electric cars etc. and all sorts of new information (for me at any rate). I Googled "Who Invented the hybrid car?" and got some great websites immediately. It looked to me like it was a continual building of technology on top of technology to arrive at the current generation but y'all have to understand that I'm totally non-technological and had to have a guy help me put air pressure in the tires of the HH yesterday. When my kids asked me how the tv worked I usually said "magic".

One thing that seemed interesting to me was how many auto manufacturers were aiming for fuel cell cars as the wave of the future and I ran across that when I was trying to decide about buying a Prius. The Acura guys were telling me Acura was looking at the whole fuel cell future (I was hoping then to trade my CL for aand not at hybrids at all which was what morning AP article was saying about the European car manufacturers as well. Suddenly oil prices skyrocket and everyone jumping on hybrid bandwagon. Toyota is definitely ahead of the pack on this one as my morning research was pointing out. Wired magazine on-line had a four page article that was written in April that I found informative.

mmreid

igh

CNG may be cheaper now but it is still not renewable and will eventually run
out. It is also controlled by the oil companies and subject to demand and
supply. PG&E in CA already warned that CNG rates will go up 40% this winter
due to Katrina. We need a permanent non green-house gas adding solution.

Full electric does not have the 400 mile range yet. A bio-diesel plug-in hybrid
charged will wind/solar/hydro can be a permanent solution if such quantities of
bio-diesel can be cheaply produced. Bio-diesel do not add to green house
gases as it is part of the carbon cycle.

IG

pcrit

OK, has anyone replaced (for whatever reason) the 12V OEM battery on their HH? If so, what brand and model number will fit? Bigger IS better

wwest

Compressed Natural Gas.......In this case means using something called PHILL to compress the gas with a home system and fill the CNG tank overnight.

gazguzler

I've not yet done it but you seem to have 13X10X9 inches for space. You need to move the rubber ww spout. It's possible (I don't know) you'd get better MPG doing this as the engine wouldn't need to come on as much if you could run your lights and other electronics for longer.

explorerx4

a company in florida has filed a patent infringement suit against toyota.
it was in the detroit news 'auto insider' on september 13.
the 2 models mentioned speficially were the priius and the highlander.
who knows if it will amount to anything.

gagrice

David & Goliath

In the lawsuit, Solomon is asking for an injunction barring further infringement as well as damages for the unauthorized use of its patent by Toyota.

Although the thought of a small company suing a large company like Toyota is daunting, Solomon executives said they would use every means to protect the patent rights

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2005/09/12/daily21.html