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Comments
:confuse:
I wasn't aware folks hung their snow plows from the axle; I kinda figured they were hung on the frame......
Toyota customers expect to pay a little more, but get a lot more value.
DrFill
what is the sense of building this truck ,the tundra as it sits goes up against the 1/2 ton ford, chevy,and dodge.
i,m on truck # 17 nobody here can give me an education on pickup trucks .........paul
GM/FORD/DODGE have nothing to worry about...
if anything GM and Ford will still have to worry even if this truck is not sucessful
While we're cutting jobs, they are making better cars
This new design (http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121001&page=2.), there's a giant gearshift poking into your thigh, and the extruded center dashpanel tapers INTO the steering column. No room for us bigger guys anymore (I'm 6'-7"). It's sad. All new truck bigger in all dimensions except driver's knee room.
Also note the very deep glove box in the passenger side. Right up against your shins if you are tall.
Stupid stupid stupid! I'm so tired of vehicles not fitting because of inferior design, not because of lack of space!
NW
I'm not sure whose lines you're reading between but you need to take another look.
Nobody said the new Tundra was designed to lure serious f250/f350 owners out of their trucks. The target for the new Tundra is the F150.
Ford/GM/Dodge sells about a billion of these (okay - slight exaggeration) in Texas every year and I think it fair to say that the % of these trucks which see regular snowplow duty here in the Lone Star state is on the small side. Can the new Tundra handle a snow plow? I've got no idea. But if the Tundra puts a dent in the Texas truck market, you can bet the domestics WILL take notice.
"...or no serious landscaper will go near it."
What features would a 'serious landscaper' be looking for in a F150 that they would not find in the new Tundra?
BTW - what is it about the Tundra which would prevent it from snow plow duty? Just curious.....
Toyota, in comparisons, will have to prove their truck is better, noticably, then the domestics. Then Toyota will have a chance to sell for the same, or a little more.
It's all about "perceived value". Tundras aren't seen as being on the same level as the domestics.
Maybe the new one will change that.
Toyota knows they can't price it $1-2k higher than the F-150. they know how to price a vehicle, better than the domestics, obviously, since they don't have to discount them $4k each to sell 'em.
DrFill
Just look at the pics...the tires are to small, the wheelwells to large....i printed a pic and took it to work...and thats the 1st thing all the guys commented on.
Any Faithful GM/FORD/DODGE guy isn't going to switch to a toyota..yes maybe an occasional one, but overall...not gonna happen.Give me a good reason why i should...i've owned chevys and GMC's, they've all been great trucks.
The Ford and Dodge guys will say the same.
The people that buy toyotas may upgrade and there will be new customers..but things really won't change much...the original Tundra was supposed to take over too...it didn't happen. The Nissan Truck didn't do it either...
(While we're cutting jobs, they are making better cars)
Ya maybe cars, not trucks...GM etc need to do better car wise...there's nothing car wise i would buy...except maybe the 09 camaro....if they don't change it much.
The new totyota will be a nice truck...but it ain't gonna tale over from the big 3.....
Just my opinion.
don
Depending on the Cab.. all day long anywhere in the US. ( well maybe not right away )
Typically Toyota doesnt move its prices at all, especially in competitive markets, when a new vehicle comes out. They just add equipment to justify not having rebates. $28-30K MSRP for the truck shown in SR5 trim feels about right.
It will make for interesting times because GM/F/D all make great vehicles. To succeed, this new Tundra has to be 'over-the-top'. Good for the consumers, that's for sure.
Speaking of which, I don't remember the last time a truck's capabilities/success "rode" on the size (+/- 1") of wheels. No pun intended.
the big 3 cannot survive on just trucks, its not gonna work
the problem is not if the truck is good enought yet, its that people havent excepted it yet and that will take time
and when that day comes, good bye big 3
F150,s1500,d1500,all half tons all three can handle a 7'6" ld plow by fisher this plow weighs about 650lbs fisher will not put these on tundras because the front ends wont take it and it would void any warrantynow if it was made to go up against these three as competition why wasnt it engineered to handle a plow ,and btw i am not talking about the homesteader plow put out by fisher .
now, to this new truck, will it be able to handle a heavy duty plow at least in the catagorie of the 7'6" fisher if not i just wonder why they would produce it and have the b%%lls to call it heavy duty not that they dont know how to build it toyota sends trucks to different parts of the world that are extremely heavy duty smaaler than an f150 and able to carry 1 ton and easily hold a plow but for some reason we dont see them here ....paul
It can haul more than any of the competitors (+10,000 lbs, heavy duty, no? Or are we missing something), so I have faith that it will be able to handle a plow, a plow 2 times bigger than the domestics can.
:P
Oh, and this is all very rhetorical...
Anyway, they had this room dedicated to this truck with a grandiose "workin' class" entrance to it and a long commercial with thickly- (southern)accented blue collar construction workers talking about what they want in a truck. Guess Toyota really wants to be seen as an American compnay.
Another example of someone thinking what they need is what everyone needs.
Bottom line on pickups: if you're a "Ford" or "Chevy" man, there isn't a feature that Toyota could install that would make you switch brands. The "I drive an American car" mentality is not one that is easily changed, regardless of features or reality.
I, for one, am looking forward to this new pickup. Big Three capability and Toyota quality merged.
Regards,
Tom
And you continue: "Another example of someone thinking what they need is what everyone needs."
I was going to retort, but you did it for me.
Thanks.
Hino, majority owned by Toyota, produces mostly diesel trucks in Japan. These include diesel hybrids. The hybrid is of the series type, not Toyota's HSD. It is reported that Hino, which imports its trucks now, is planning to build a truck plant in the USA. If I remember correctly, in Arkansas. Toyota itself also produces diesels. The Tundra is entirely American since its engine is manufactured in Alabama. I don't believe Toyota makes any diesels in the USA but with Hino coming there may be a joint Hino-Toyota diesel manufacturing plant in the future
hybrid racing. Perhaps instead of displacement restrictions there would be limits on greenhouse gas emissions. Or fuel limits. Just speculating since you're an F1 fan.
I think Formula One should have a "Power" button on the cars. Have the energy from the brakes placed into hybrid engine that can give the cars that extra push. I do think that Formula One should be at the limit of what Technology can do.
Since this year the cars are now running v-8's instead of 10's there is a need for power. This would be a logical usable method for an extra 50-100 horsepower.
This is something I could run-on about for a while. Too bads its the wrong forum though.
Mullins
Way off topic but....
Do you have any idea about how fanatical the F1 teams are about weight reduction? Any idea?
For years, they used Champion sparkplugs. Everything was hunky-dory until 1999 when some of the F1 teams told Champion their plugs were TOO HEAVY (at 25.9 grams or about 1/10 of a pound). Champion had to REENGINEER THEIR SPARK PLUGS to save weight (current F1 plugs are around 10.7 grams or about 0.024 pound).
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=27&article_id=10259&page_numb- er=1
I sincerely doubt that F1 teams which are willing to trim 15 grams from their spark plugs (and pay between $35 and $50 per plug for the honor) will be interested in adding the weight of electric motors and a number of heavy batteries for a hybrid system.
"This would be a logical usable method for an extra 50-100 horsepower."
Typical specs for a 2005 edition Toyota F1 car were a vehicle weight (driver included) of around 600kg with over 900hp. Call it roughly 1.5hp/kg or 0.67kg/hp
To keep the exact same power/weight ratio, a hybrid system able to provide 50hp must weigh no more than 33lbs; for a 100hp hybrid system, the whole package must weigh no more than 67lbs. I'd love to see a hybrid system able to provide 50hp that weighed only 33lbs.......
My point was that from a performance standpoint, adding a hybrid system to an F1 car would be a giant step BACKWARD.
i agree with you, but i think they are worried about the safety, that's why they try to make the cars slower.
I seem to have started this "detour" by replying to an F1 fan and including my thoughts on hybrid racing. I don't regret that.
Still way off topic but...
There's simpler ways to make the cars slower. Of course, from an F1 mindset, perhaps it makes some kind of 'sense' to slow the cars down by making them more complicated... :confuse:
They don't.
The ONLY way hybrids would have a place would be if a particular race series specialized in hybrid powerplants and the rules were set up to REQUIRE hybrid powerplants.
An analogy - in Europe they have truck racing on road courses. Not truck racing like we think of it (ie. pickups in Nascar or off-road pickup racing). I'm talking about semi-trucks. Tractor/trailer rigs without the trailers. The cab portion of 18-wheelers. Funny as heck to watch (and those trucks can go pretty fast), BUT I don't think that an F1 team is thinking about running a semi in lieu of their standard car anytime soon. I see hybrids in racing the same way. Sure, you can do it (heck, you could set up a series to race garden tractors too...). But I simply don't see anyone taking an existing series and turning to hybrid technology as a means to go faster.
Capacitors in lieu of batteries? Good lord. I'm trying to picture the size capacitor needed to provide 50hp worth of juice for 5 seconds......and picturing the number of times an F1 driver would desire that 50hp boost over the course of a 2 hour race.
Another tidbit to chew over: the engine which Mercedes has unveiled to compete in F1 this season generates 700hp....and weighs 209lbs. That's 3.35hp/lb.
A 50hp hybrid system would need to weigh less than 15lbs. to have the same power to weight ratio.
In racing (all forms of racing), the idea is to generate the most power with the least weight. Hybrids have a lot of advantages; power to weight is NOT one of them. Personally, I think the power/weight ratio would have to be improved by an order of magnitude (10x) in order to be competitive with 'standard' ICE engines in racing. And you ain't gettin' there by improving battery/capacitor technology by a few % every year.
The feeling I believe is that while the HSD is great for initial torque, especially for light vehicles like the Camry/Prius, it's nearly useless for heavier vehicles unless the motor was massive. In additon the HSD system is useless for towing-torque while under way. The constant pressure might burn out the electric motor. Diesel is a much better alternative giving the same FE results.
However... all that being said, it might be a akin to a CIA misinformation ploy. Suddenly next Dec when the Tundra is announced and all the specs are known.. 'Guess what we solved the hybrid issues, and here it is..BLAM!'
A major advancement like this in this ultra competitive market is not something Toyota would just throw out for everyone to copy.
Some things I've heard rumors of but have no firm info on are:
Hybrid version ( 4.7? )
2500 model
Turbo-diesel model ( Hino )
4 cyl shutting down while under cruise. ( everyone has this )
Capacitors in lieu of batteries? Good lord. I'm trying to picture the size capacitor needed to provide 50hp worth of juice for 5 seconds......and picturing the number of times an F1 driver would desire that 50hp boost over the course of a 2 hour race.
All I can say is that my information about capacitors comes from a Toyota publication. Incidentally BMW at the last Frankfurt auto show had a concept car with capacitors in the wheelwells to recapture braking energy when stopping for use in restarting. They appear not to dismiss capacitors as you do
I would expect the races to be exclusively hybrid but there could be
open racing such as LeMans.
The high horsepower of F1 engines (such as your Mercedes example) comes from extremely high rpm's. There's no reason why the ICE in a hybrid couldn't also be designed to rev just as high. Any advances in ICE's equally benefit hybrids using ICE's.
First off there would have to be a rule change that requires all cars to have similar technology. That way the weight of the cars won't matter(they'll all be pushing their weight new limits anyway). But the advantages of forcing companies to develop this technology would be crucial for our futures. Just imagine how much a racing series would improve and reward us. Just look what variable valve timing did along with everything else. If the rules were changed, there would be no way you could consider this to be a step backwards. Formula One is about using and building new technologies along with pushing things to the limit. Things could only get better.
Remember I'm not talking about having this installed tomorrow, but down the road a couple of years.
Secondly, you don't consider a switch to v-8's, the re-introduction of tyre changes and the certainty of going to a single tyre supplier a major step backwards?
Now back to this forum.
Mullins
Yes, I'm aware that F1 engines get their hp from high rpm (since torque is limited for the most part by displacement and compression of the engine, the best way to get high hp is through high rpm). I'm sure that a hybrid drivetrain COULD be designed for high rpm.
I'm just trying to identify the BENEFITS (power? economy?) of a hybrid powertrain in racing and weighing that against the LIABILITIES (weight). If the benefits outweigh the liabilities, then I'm sure you'll start to see hybrid powertrains.
So that all cars can take the same performance step backwards? Yep, would certainly need a rule change.
"But the advantages of forcing companies to develop this technology would be crucial for our futures."
Well, that was just slightly over the top. Forcing a race series to use hybrid technology is crucial to our future? :surprise:
"If the rules were changed, there would be no way you could consider this to be a step backwards."
Yes way. Let's assume that F1 adopted rules to force hybrids. Who could compete? The total number of engine suppliers would probably drop to 1, 2 if you're REAL lucky. The performance would drop (due to the extra weight) and the cost would go up. Do you think Ferrari has the means to start, from scratch, a hybrid program? Ferrari would be out of F1. What do you think happens to your fan base with Ferrari gone? A rules change forcing hybrids in F1 would be a HUGE step backward.
"Secondly, you don't consider a switch to v-8's, the re-introduction of tyre changes and the certainty of going to a single tyre supplier a major step backwards?"
Nope.
I have prognosticated Hino diesels in the Tundra as did another poster
independently. I would say the same for Hino hybrids.
Let me say I have no connection with Toyota Motors except as an investor in their stock. I drive an RX400h soon to be traded in for a GS450h.
If you're getting another hybrid, you must like it.
DrFill
The 3.5-liter V6 engine employs the new D-4S fuel injection system using dual injectors with both in-cylinder direct fuel injection and ported fuel injection. In synergy with the electric motor, this provides 2.0 liter class fuel economy along with the acceleration you would expect from a 4.5-liter power plant..Another feature of the GS450h is its new transmission designed for hybrid applications. The motor power transmitted to the reduction gear has two modes: In high gear, it adds high-speed cruising pleasure, while in low gear, it controls generation of powerful torque, thereby enhancing acceleration and fuel efficiency, while reducing noise.
There are two very important advances in technology. .
First the dual injection system. It was clear to me that fuel efficiency of this engine would be at least as good as the 330cc engine on the RX400h. Just today this engine used on the IS350
got this award.
TORONTO, Feb. 15 /CNW/ - Lexus today received the 2006 Best New Technology award from the Automobile Journalists Association of Canada (AJAC) for an innovative fuel injection system introduced on the 2006 Lexus IS 350 luxury sport sedan.
"We're pleased to accept the Best New Technology award from AJAC," said Stuart Payne, Director for Lexus in Canada. "At Lexus, we strive to develop new technologies that maximize the performance and efficiency of our vehicles, and the injection system on the new IS 350 sport sedan which won this award is an excellent example of that."
The IS 350 is powered by a 306-horsepower 3.5-litre 24-valve dual overhead cam V6 engine that features a unique fuel injection system. This system combines direct fuel injection - delivering fuel to the combustion chamber - and port fuel injection - delivering fuel to the intake ports. Fuel distribution is controlled via the two types of injection, according to driving conditions:
- When the engine is running under low or medium loads at lower speeds,
both systems are used to create a homogeneous air-fuel mixture. This
stabilizes combustion, improves fuel efficiency, and reduces exhaust
emissions.
- When the engine is running under heavy load, the engine automatically
converts to a direct injection-only system. By controlling the timing
and duration of fuel being injected directly to the combustion
chamber, the combustion efficiency of each charge is maximized. It
also allows the engine to operate at a higher compression ratio,
thereby improving engine output and performance, by reducing the
tendency of the compressed mixture to ignite prematurely.
"Lexus is committed to developing new technologies to help improve the performance of our vehicles, and minimize their environmental impact," continued Payne. "While this award firmly establishes our technological leadership in the automotive industry, Lexus will continue to create leading- edge systems in our cars and SUVs for years to come."
Okay that's the dual injection. Now on the GS450h a continuously variable transmission is used as on the RX400h. But the GS450h has this reduction gear for cruising or power. This is a spectacular development. On the RX400h at over 60mph you're basically engine only and so highway mileage while good is lower than urban mileage.
With this reduction gear the highway mileage on the GS450h will be superior to the RX400h. Urban mileage should be equal. I went to my Lexus dealer and became number 1 for the GS450h.
The continuously variable transmission is smaller and lighter than, say, a 6 speed one. Just imagine, if on a non-hybrid, one had
such a reduction gear attached to the usual automatic transmission.
I don't expect to lose out in changing my lease from the RX400h
to the GS450h. That paragraph I quoted made me not want to wait.