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Comments
Your all correct the CofG is important and if this truck's CofG is not higher than the rest it's width is the increased safety I was referring to. Square or rectangle the more distance you have to move the CofG to get it past the wheels the safer the truck will be. I don't know the rule about naming products but an article I hope I still have discusses "highth of CofG vs width of track" as a safety issue.
I like the favorable reviews. I personally like the styling. It has the tow capacity I need. But I want to be able to take my family of four on trips and the luggage in back would be soaked! (Know about the hidden water tight area but we packa lot. PLUS what if I take my beagle pups with me, they can't stay back there exposed in bad weather. Need a cover.
Any rumors of one being offered?
I think he's right about the styling, both inside and out.
On the other hand, I had to laugh when he mentioned the Ridgeline's price tag a 3rd time and never once mentioned the NAV and other high-end equipment. Nor did he mention the 40K price tag of the Avalanche he compared it with.
John
A $44K 05 Avalanche is selling for $34K in my area. Avalanche is appropriate comparison IMHO. Colorado is smaller in price, smaller in weight 3500 lbs Colorado/4500 lbs Ridgeline, smaller in HP, smaller in towing, smaller in cargo capacity.
For what the Ridgeline is and what it does, it is comparable to a 1/2 ton full size truck more than it is to a compact/midsize such as Colorado/Tacoma.
Ridgeline has created a unique segment.
It may appeal most to those who would consider a Tundra, Dakota, Sport Trac, or SUV.
IF, and I say IF, full size 1/2 ton truck buyers were to judge the Ridgeline based on it's capabilities vs. their actual needs for truck usage, it would meet 80% of buyers actual needs.
College Hill Honda has the accessories listed on their site.
Who's to say a $27K Ridgeline won't go for $24K? Initial demand will probably allow dealers to get MSRP, but Honda is a newbie in a competitive and loyal segment. I suspect dealing will begin 6-9 months after introduction.
I agree that the Colorado is a bit small. It's still a compact rather than a mid-size. But the Colorado is no more too small than the Avalanche is too big. The Ridgeline kinda fits smack dab between the two.
Also, the Tacoma, Frontier, and Dakota are all a good deal closer than the Avalanche or Tundra. So, why use two full-sizers for comparison when there are a few mid-sizers that are closer in both price and capacities?
Amen to that! A good majority of privately-owned 1/2 ton pickups out there never see a real day of work in their short lives....
I hope you are right, but I suspect that its closeness to Pilot and MDX technology will keep it closer to the upper $20s. If you can find me a Ridgeline for $24k 9 months from now, I am buying.
John
The truth is, I think much of the demand will come from folks looking at SUVs, who will decide a Ridgeline is a more useful alternative. High $20s to low $30s is very competitive in the mid sized SUV market when looking a models with similar equipment levels.
So really the issue is that the Ridgeline does not come with a "stripper" model. When you look at what you get, the price is very good.
It is really simple, you can buy a truck with similar equipment for $6K less than Ridgeline. $6K is a lot of money for some of us.
Fully loaded, over $30K Frontiers and Tacomas sell for $27K. In my area, Honda dealers are the most difficult of any brand to obtain discounts from on pricing. Honda is vigilant in keeping the value of their vehicles high. I still say that the Ridgeline is more aptly compared to full size 1/2 ton trucks, however, if you want to compare to Taco and Frontier, I'd spend $27K for a Taco or Frontier compared to $33K for Ridgeline, the Ridgeline is not $6,000 better IMHO.
Bottom line, is the Ridgeline "worth" $27-$33K? Honda will have NO problems selling all they make w/o discounts and the truck will maintain it's value over time, after all, it is a Honda.
However, at this point no one has any idea of what the acceptance of the Ridgeline will be. In one year, they may be selling with discounts, or they may not. In any case, right now the only basis of comparison we have is the listed retail prices.
If the Ridgeline maintains MSRP, it will be because the buyers feel it is worth the premium.
As written before, I do not think the Ridgeline will be able to maintain MSRP for longer than a 9 months. There will be an initial rush to buy, and pent up demand will jack up the prices. But once that subsides - and the $30K Ridgeline is forced to compete with those $27K Tacos and Frontiers - the price will drop.
I expect this vehicle will be a hit, much like the Element was. It sold at MSRP for a while, then settled down into a more reasonable price range. This will not be another Ody or MDX which commands a premium for several years.
**edit** oops! Atlgaxt beat me to it.
John
Highs - very nice, plush seats (this one had leather but no nav or sunroof); love the storage in the bed; good rear seat/leg room - the seats seem to lean back a little more than in most cc trucks; a very solid feel - we drove a bumpy road and it took it with ease; cool little touches like dropping the height of the tailgate to allow better rear vision (i guess)
Lows - looks (it will take me awhile to get used to it, but at first I can't get around the fact they look pretty funky); not crazy about interior front door handles (a little space age for my taste); price (ouch - full MSRP).
Anyway, will try to talk my wife into trading in her Denali XL for a Rideline with Nav (this is pure fantasy).
I'm the target segment for Honda - urban guy who needs a pickup just frequently enough to want one. However, as my only vehicle, I also want some luxury. The problem - how do I justify the Ridgeline over the top-of-the-line F-150 2x?
The almost-loaded Ridgeline is priced at $32,640, according to http://www.collegehillshonda.com/artman/publish/article_239.shtml- . This is with a V-6 rated at 16/21 MPG and a 5000 lb tow rating. From all indications, it will sell at MSRP.
I can buy a F-150 King Ranch Edition for just about the same money (discounts abound) with a V-8, luxurious interior, and MPG/tow ratings of 15/19 - 9000+. Problem is, the F-150 still seems huge to me, and I live in Houston (where everyone has one).
So help me out, Ridgeline fans. Why should I pay MSRP? (I'm trying to convince myself, but I was hoping the price difference would be bigger) Thanks - the new guy.
PS. Does anyone know if the F-150 uses premium fuel? (Ridgeline uses regular per the brochure)
Hondas never have been value leaders if you're looking for biggest power, biggest toying capacity, or most vehicle mass for the dollar. For every advantage the Ford has, the Honda will have a different one, but it will be things efficiency, reliability, more sophisticated technology, etc., not V8s or towing.
- Mark
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I did check out the owner's manual for towing info, which is:
5000 w/2 passengers
3500 w/3 passengers
3000 w/4 passengers
2000 w/5 passengers
The tongue weight also drops with extra passengers, but I don't remember what those figures are. Perhaps one of the new owners here could fill us in?
Also, the tow rating for unbraked trailers is 1000 pounds, which is pretty typical for this class of vehicle.
Finally, the detailed brochures are now out too, as I picked one up.
Bob
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John
Keep in mind they would STILL be at msrp if the second plant did not come on line to aid in production. Again, for those that missed the point- by adding production, a manufacturer runs the risk of building one MORE unit of production than demand calls for, causing an adjustment in the market value, or what someone is willing to pay.
Back to the Ridgeline. Honda is planning a production run of 50,000 units. Ford built over 900k F-series pickups last year. GM was right behind them with just around 800k units.
To think there will be rebates, or even deep discounts on this vehicle, with its very conservative production run, in the forseeable future is just careless thinking, or lack of thought at all.
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IMHO, I believe the dealers would rather have more units sell in order to strike a happy medium that would allow them to sell more units at less than MSRP than a few at sticker and ultimately earn a larger gross profit.
Honda Manufacturing wants to reach that happy medium for the dealers and in reality doesn't care what the street price is unless they have to use incentives to sell product.
John
Honda sells the cars to a dealer at a more or less fixed price. Invoice is as close as we get to knowing that price. If the dealer sells that car for invoice plus $3,000, then Honda makes invoice. If the dealer sells that car for $30 over invoice, Honda still makes invoice. Any money paid above invoice goes into the dealer's wallet. Honda doesn't see a penny of that money.
The only way for Honda to make more money is to sell more units.
Let's take your theory and apply it to the CR-V and Element. Element production for the US was estimated at about 50K units. They are produced here in Ohio. CR-V production was estimated about 150K units. They are produced in two plants (Japan and England). According to your notion, the Element should have stayed at MSRP for years, while the CR-V would be discounted much sooner. Right? I mean, the CR-V has 3 times the production.
What actually happened was the Element sold at MSRP for about 6 months before discounts were available. The CR-V sold at MSRP for almost 3 years. How can that be? There has to be high demand. There has to be more buyers than production.
I, for one, am certain that initial demand for the Ridgeline will outstrip production. But I do not believe that level of demand will be sustainable. As good as the Ridgeline is for a first time entry, it will not dominate the market the way the Odyssey did. The styling is too controversial. It only comes in two trims - almost loaded and completely loaded. There is only one body configuration. And the truck market is very brand loyal.
John
Honda has been the absolute champ at controlling the market without flooding it with unwanted product..
But for Honda the manufacturer, it doesn't matter. The dealer pays Honda the manufacturer the same amount for each one no matter what the dealer can sell it for. Remember the dealer is not owned by Honda.
Honda will continue to produce them until it costs them more to do so in incentives, plant closings, paying off supplier contracts et al. That's where Honda is great at controlling things.
It isn't as simple as a basic supply and demand curve.
John
John
Which are you proposing?
Interesting view from a pick-up oriented site. The interview page may be interesting for those who like to read about development.
Look at GM and Ford. They make zero from manufacturing automobiles and make their $$ from their financing arms (another discussion..)
Honda is a well oiled manufacturer. Someone wrote many years ago that flexible manufacturiung was the future and Honda implemented it. And yes, simply stated, flexible manufacturing is based on none other than the supply and demand curve.
I think I'll repost it over in that "other" thread, just to get under you know who's skin.
Bob
3500 w/3 passengers
3000 w/4 passengers
2000 w/5 passengers
Doesn't anyone else find these tow ratings a tad strange? You lose 1500 lbs for a 3rd passenger? I thought that the original 5000 lbs rating included a certain amount of cargo weight too (along with 2 passengers)?
I think these tow rating were written by the lawyers and not the engineers. Reminds me of the fine print on the Titan tow rating; "not to be used for towing any trailer exceeding 50 sq. ft. of frontage".
The other thing I'm miffed at is no trip computer! (mpg, DTE...) Seems so standard now days I didn't know they'd ever make a car without one. I guess truck owners aren't interested in such things. Oh well.
Honda has to strike a balance between production and actual street demand for the product. I realize that if there is so much product at the dealer level that their profit margin erodes and the mfr then has to apply incentives.
But Honda does a very good job of increasing production so that it meets demand and still allows the dealer to make a good margin. Honda slowly increases production which may drive the street price down. But the dealer is selling more units and may earn more total gross profit at the discounted price as opposed to selling a few units at MSRP.
You're earlier post seemed to say that if Honda produces one unit more than demand, then there isn't any profit for the dealer. As long as Honda maintains production so the dealer is profitable, everyone seems to be happy.
Take it back to the dealer and tell them to check if the windshield cowling is correctly seated in the fasteners.
Something is wrong regarding the noise issue, the reviewers note how quiet this vehicle is.
When you say trip computer, do you mean that there is no trip odometer?
John