Honda Ridgeline SUT

once_for_all

this is funny, awards are definitely worth cash in both the dealer's pocket, and the owners.

My Forester is worth more today because of CR's and others awards. Where is the discussion?

Ridgeline desireability, and resale value, is most definitely affected by awards.

John

gearhead1

Naming the Honda Ridgeline as Truck of the Year is such a travesty that I feel
as though I must cancel my remaining subscription of Motor Trend magazine. The
Ridgeline is not a truck--it is a van-based gimmick. It has no power and no
towing capacity. I\'m not even going to mention how unattractive it is, either.
I hope Honda paid you guys a lot of money for this award as it robbed you of
your credibility. Handing out such honors simply due to it\'s well lit bed and
"trunk" is a joke. Please cancel my subscription. Thank you

This was the funniest thing I've read all week. You are most certainly anti-Honda. No one would care that much to cancel their subscription if they were'nt. You see, your first mistake is you don't have a clue about what your talking about. You certainly have no experience with this truck and don't know the slightest bit about its abilities. The Ridgeline was obviously the only choice. It's a complete new way to concieve a truck. It broke the rules and improved the way a truck can handle without sacrificeing truck ability. The award is called "truck of the year" not "towing capacity of the year". Get a clue.

uga91

I'm glad you found it amusing; but, I'm afraid it is you who is uninformed. First of all, I am not anti-Honda. My wife and I have had not one, but two Acura Integras (based on the Civic) in our time. My brother and his wife had two Civics and now have an Accord and an Odyssey and they are both fine vehicles. If I were in the market for a van today, I would like to think the Odyssey is the only van I would shop for. I have stated before that I recognize Honda's ability to make good, reliable vehicles. The issue here is Truck of the Year. Any "truck" based on a minivan platform with only a 6 cylinder engine available to power it and a microscopic (for a truck) 5000 pound towing capacity is most certainly not a truck. Like I said, it's a gimmick. It has a neat trunk area under the bed and that is it's whole deal. Remeber the Honda del Sol? Neither does anyone else. It replaced the wildly successful CRX and it's gimmick was the rear window that slid down behind the seats to create an almost convertible experience. It didn't last long. If the Ridgeline does not get converted onto a truck chassis and made available with a V8 engine to give it a real towing capacity (read: at least 7500 pounds), then the gimmick of a trunk under the bed will not stand the test of time. You folks like to compare it to the Tacoma; however, with it's price tag, you should be comparing it to full size trucks. You can buy one heck of a nice Tacoma D-Cab for less than a Ridgeline. And it's a truck.

Also, I was very clear that the Motor Trend awards are not awards, they are marketing campaigns. I did not say all awards are worthless. A Consumer Reports "Recommended" label goes a long way. A "Best Pick" by the IIHS is huge. Look back over the list of MT award winners--most have proven to be horrible cars and many died fairly quick deaths. By the way, I'm not jealous of the award, either. My truck nameplate has won this award twice. Most recently in 2004 when it was totally redesigned. Does anyone know why a vehicle does not win this award two years in a row? Because they only consider vehicles that are either all new or completely redesigned. Thus, will that mean that when the Ridgeline does not win that MT will be saying that the Ridgeline is no longer a good truck? No, it will just mean that Chevy (or some other manufacturer) will have bought the award in an effort to use the MT symbol in their ads to sell more trucks.

As I said before. If it takes this TOTY award to make you feel good about your purchase, then great. Enjoy it. Anyone who buys one solely becuase of it--well, like P.T. Barnum said, there's a sucker born every minute.

gd113

Any "truck" based on a minivan platform with only a 6 cylinder engine available to power it and a microscopic (for a truck) 5000 pound towing capacity is most certainly not a truck. Like I said, it's a gimmick.

This stuff cracks me up. It does not fit the "definition" of a truck. Someone tell me what a real truck is; it must tow 10k lbs, have an 8 cyl engine that gets 10mpg, and ride like crap. Is that it? Maybe the market for this vehicle is not for your needs but others who not need that kind of capacity. (ie. I have a 3k lb boat, do I need 7.5K towing capacity?) To spend the time to type that long post you obviously just hate Honda's.

atlgaxt

I have a Mazda B 4000 4X4 and several times I have been through streams where water was above the bottom levels of the doors (and near the tops of the tires) and I have never gotten water in that truck. And it is a piece of junk Ford Ranger clone.

Now don't get me wrong, I like the Ridgeline. And I realize that it is not meant to be a hard core off roader. But considering how low it is, I think the doors not being sealed against water is a bit of a problem. It is not that hard to get a tight fit.

Maybe Honda did it on purpose because they knew that the truck in general was not built to go in water more than 18" deep.

55535432

(ie. I have a 3k lb boat, do I need 7.5K towing capacity?) To spend the time to type that long post you obviously just hate Honda's
--------------
I agree with you, it's just another Honda hater who tries to convince us he does not hate Hondas, who is he kidding? :sick:

bobwho

Well, I guess I made a mistake by my comments to Scowboy and Atlgaxt. If that's the case, I'm sorry. I'm sure that if I was in scowboys position, I'd be upset too. All I tried to point out that crossing a flooded road has it's dangers. If scowboy needs to cross a flooded road all the time, than that's his decision. If his Ridgeline can't handle the water, than that's a seal/design flaw. But who would have known if he had not reported it. Hopefully, it can be fixed and the interior was not damaged. Now I know that if I have to cross over a flooded road, creek/stream or river. I will pay extra attention to the depth and signs of leaking.

gearhead1

The issue here is Truck of the Year. Any "truck" based on a minivan platform

How often has this been repeated?

Fully-Integrated Closed Box Frame

Honda engineers developed a new truck body construction, a fully integrated truck frame with two longitudinal frame rails and seven high-strength steel cross members that create a fully boxed, deep channel, ladder frame structure fully integrated into the upper body of the vehicle. Body bending rigidity is more than 2.5 times stiffer than the best performing body-on-frame compact truck competitor and rear torsion rigidity is more than 20 times stiffer. Fully 93 percent of the Ridgeline's frame components are exclusive to this model.

There's little in common with the minivan platform. Why would I want to trade the superior body strength of the Ridgeline for your weaker BOF design. The RL is stronger period. I've compared the torional strength directly to the BOF Silverado on BLM trails and there is no twisting of the frame on the RL. The same trails ring out the full size Silverado like a dish rag with you inside the rag. it's not pleasent. The same ride in the RL is more than tolerable.

with only a 6 cylinder engine available to power it and a microscopic (for a truck) 5000 pound towing capacity is most certainly not a truck. Like I said, it's a gimmick. It has a neat trunk area under the bed and that is it's whole deal.

The RL's engine performs just fine. If you need to tow more than 5,000 lbs, buy something else already! 80% percent of the people that need a truck don't require more than a 5,000lb towing capacity. As far as the trunk and tailgate system. This the best innovation to come along in trucks. If you couldn't use a grocery cart sized secure storage area in your bed, your the only one. It's far from a gimmick. This feature crosses over into the need category quickly when you've lived with it which you haven't.

If the Ridgeline does not get converted onto a truck chassis and made available with a V8 engine to give it a real towing capacity (read: at least 7500 pounds), then the gimmick of a trunk under the bed will not stand the test of time.

Really? It's obvious your one the deluded "real truck" crowd that has some twisted definition about what a truck is. I've got news for you. My 2wd 4 cylinder Toyota truck is also a truck. Where do these people come from?

uga91

We've owned 2 Hondas over the years and my brother has owned 4. I stated I would buy an Odyssey if in the market for a minivan. You have a strange definition of "Honda hater" in my humble opinion.

uga91

Thanks for your defensive e-mail. You must get tired defending your "truck" on a regular basis. Everything I've seen and read has suggested that the Ridgeline is built on the Odyssey platform and uses its powertrain. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. I'm not really saying there is anything wrong with it. The Toyota Highlander is not a SUV. It is a Camry station wagon. Same type thing.

"Body bending rigidity is more than 2.5 times stiffer than the best performing body-on-frame compact truck competitor and rear torsion rigidity is more than 20 times stiffer"

The Ridgeline is not a compact truck and it is priced like full sized trucks. You must compare apples to apples.

"I've compared the torional strength directly to the BOF Silverado on BLM trails and there is no twisting of the frame on the RL. The same trails ring out the full size Silverado like a dish rag with you inside the rag."

That's not much of a claim as the Silverado has the weakest frame in the full size truck business. I can't figure out why anyone buys them anyway.

My point all along is that for what Honda wants for a Ridgleine, you can buy a real truck with real capabilities. If the trunk is what puts the RL over the top, then great. If the MT award is your validation for being the only person in town to actually buy one, then great. You obviously have not driven all the trucks on the market if you honestly believe the RL offers an unsurpassed ride. Enjoy your truck--I'm enjoying mine and that is all that really counts. Drive and buy what you like.

rsholland

In everything Honda has published, they compare it to midsize trucks, not fullsize trucks. The only thing fullsize about it is its width and maybe cab size.

http://automobiles.honda.com/models/ridgeline_bonus.asp?ModelName=Ridgeline&func- - tion=compare

You keep talking about how expensive it is, and therefore it should be compared with fullsize trucks. Go to any newspaper and you can find fullsize trucks selling for far less than smaller trucks. So, yes, if you want a stripper, you can find cheaper fullsize (and midsize) trucks. So far Honda has not offered a stripper Ridgeline.

Comparing according only to price is like comparing an Accord to a Crown Victoria. Yeah, you could get a Crown Vic or less than an Accord. So what. If you don't "want" a Crown Vic, it makes no difference what the price is; same with the Ridgeline.

Bob

uga91

You make a good point, Bob. However, unless you just need the huge back seat, the eight cylinder power or smooth ride of rear wheel drive, no one would buy a Crown Vic over an Accord. Come to think of it, if you have kids, maybe everyone should--but that's a topic for another discussion. My whole point about the price of the RL is that why pay for more truck and get less truck?

rsholland

My whole point about the price of the RL is that why pay for more truck and get less truck?

You're basing that argument on "truck-only" attributes. The Ridgeline is much more than that. While it does have truck attributes, but it also can double very nicely as a family vehicle—much more so than traditional 1/2-ton trucks.

As with any vehicle in this class, it's a compromise. Buyers make their choices on what's most important to them. Those who value Honda's innovative approach to bridging the gap between car and truck will buy the Ridgeline. Those who prefer traditional truck attributes will go elsewhere.

Bob

gearhead1

I'm not sure why people can't move into the future and embrace change and progress.

The resistance to independent rear suspension on a truck such as the Ridgeline is puzzeling to say the least. The current solid rear axel and leaf spring set up on current full/mid/compact trucks is no different than on some horse drawn wagons in the 1800's. Have we not progressed beyond that. Honda entered the market and approached the requirements of a truck using todays technology and succeeded in a huge way. Does anyone seriously expect a progressive company like Honda to think they should follow in the path of nearly bankrupt companies like Ford and GM, even when it comes to truck design. They are leaders not followers.

Even Toyota pulled their new corolla from release and sent it back for redesign after seeing the new 06 Civic. People better hold on to their antiquated trucks if that's what they love so much, because trucks will be changing because of the Ridgeline.

once_for_all

just a reminder... the new '07 Ford Sportrac AWD is almost a knockoff of the Ridgeline in features, due out in about 3 months.

Probably coincidental though(as far as intentionally making a Ridgeline type vehicle), since it is a scheduled update to the now 3 year old IRS Explorer platform. But Ford definitely has a "different" pickup with this one.

John

varmint

You are correct in saying that the Ridgeline is weak in two areas where traditional trucks shine. Towing is modest, at best. And off-road capability is more or for dirt roads only.

So the Honda does sacrifice those attributes. I don't think anyone questions that.

But take a look at what you get in return. The Ridgeline has a larger cabin than any other mid-size. It has a higher payload than any other mid-size (1,550 lbs). Those are also attributes which truck buyers value.

So, it's weak in some truckish areas, but strong in others.

But it doesn't stop there. The Ridgline also provides a driving experience that is more like a BMW than a truck. I'd agree that's not a high priority for the majority of truck buyers, but it is worth something. The Ridgeline also provides a high level of safety. Also worth something. It provides a well-constructed and high quality interior. It offers plenty of storage spaces. It offers decent fuel economy and good emissions. These things aren't the #1 criteria for traditional truck buyers. But they still add up to an awful lot of goodness.

Take the in-bed trunk as an example. When the Ridgeline first debuted, I thought it was neat, but a gimmick. Then I started thinking about all the trucks I see with job boxes in their bed. Imagine a Frontier with a 5' bed and a job box in it.

Price out a loaded Frontier or Tacoma and it will come within $1,000 of a similar Ridgeline. They will be superior in two primary truck virtues. But the Ridgeline will offer a dozen secondary virtues to make up for it.

uga91

"What Edmunds.com Says

Like a 4x4 Accord on steroids, the Ridgeline is the perfect pickup for those who don't really need a truck. "

This is basically my argument from the beginning.

uga91

gearhead1, we use solid rear axles and leaf springs because it is tried and true, it works and it is what trucks use. The Ridgeline uses a 4 wheel independent suspension because the Odyssey does.

trashington

Conversation with a Honda Engineer who designed the Ridgeline:

Me: I was wondering, what made you guys decide not to use a solid rear axle with leaf springs in your truck?

Honda engineer: Well, the Odyssey had 4 wheel independent suspension so we figured what the hell, why not use it again?

Me: So you didn't do any kind of structural or dynamic analyses on the truck's suspension to make sure it could withstand the forces that a truck would normally see?

Honda engineer: Why would we need to do that? I mean, the Odyssey already has 4-wheel independent suspension! That's all the convincing we need to know it will work.

(for those of you too thick headed to get it, it’s called sarcasm.)

gonzo1124

You are such an insecure person, you keep coming here to bash the Ridgeline. You know that deep inside you really wish you could afford one?

The fact of the matter is that the Honda Ridgeline is the TRUCK OF THE YEAR....like it or not.
Grow up, move on and maybe somewhere around the way, get a life!!!

varmint

He's not a Honda basher... he's just a fan of traditional trucks being presented with something very unconventional.

fatboy23

I judge "true" trucks by what I see at job sites, union and non-union. You will not see RL's penetrate this market because guys don't want to empty the bed out to get to the spare and or empty it out to get to what they would have had in the aftermarket truck job box. You hardly ever see foreign trucks on the job site, supporting the US economy and being patriotic is one reason, but another is that the foreign trucks just haven't been built as tough in the past. That is why the titan was designed the way it was, we'll see if that changes anything on the job site.

varmint

Perhaps it will help if we have a better understanding of what "platform" means. The Ridgeline is based on the same platform as the Ody, Pilot, and MDX. True enough. But that does not mean they share a chassis.

In modern manufacturing, building something on the same platform means the two vehicles share certain manufacturing qualities. Here's a few examples....

They would be about the same size (to fit on the assembly line).

They would require (roughly) the same number of stops on the line.

Those stops would be in a similar order.

They can use the same robots to hold pieces together for assembly.

I'm too lazy to look up the exact percentage (someone just posted it above), but the Ridgeline is something like 93% unique under the skin. And the skin certainly isn't shared with any other Honda.

Now I'm sure there are compromises made to allow the Ridgeline to be built on the same lines as the Pilot. But the fact that it can haul 1,550 lbs payload (more than the BOF designs from Nissan and Toyota) certainly suggests that whatever those compromises are... they worked. The fact that the Ridgeline can autocross while loaded up also validates the design. The fact that Honda had to pull the Sport Trac off the same course (because journalists' lives were at risk driving it that way) doesn't hurt either.

varmint

How many Sport Tracs do you see at the job site? How many of any mid-size trucks do you see there?

That is not the target market for the Ridgeline. They are going for Harry Homeowner, not Bob the Builder.

uga91

It is posts like this that detract from what the RL fans want to say. The truth, gonzo, is that my 2005 F-150 SuperCrew cost $33,600 (no I did not pay that much for it, but RL owners don't pay sticker, either). The redesigned (my body style) F-150 was picked for MT TOTY for 2004. Only all new trucks or totally redesigned trucks are nominated for TOTY. Next year the RL will not even be in the running for the "honor" of TOTY. Will that mean the RL is no longer a good vehicle? No, it will mean that it will be another manufacturer's turn to buy the award for use in their ad campaign. MT awards are marketing campaigns. I predict that the 2007 Chevy Silverado will win MT TOTY next year. Want to bet?

uga91

I applaud your ability to remain level headed. Your fellow RL fans could learn a thing or two from you.

scowboy

My local Honda dealer is taking this problem very seriously. They have found a few places where the underside was not watertight and are sealing them. They are replacing the carpet and much insulation at no charge. My service writer said they have seen a few of these and one was unsold off the lot. Its a bummer but I guess these are the chances you take buying a first model year vehicle. Besides I leased mine so if it gets unbearable I only have to drive it for like 38 more months and they can have it back, though my intent is to buy out the lease.

For the rest of you who don't believe this is truck. Well its got a bed so it is a truck. If I wanted a real truck I would have bought a GMC or something. I truly wanted the best of all worlds with out getting 12 mpg. I have a toddler which means I wanted safety as much as the typical truck functionality. I also have an Acura MDX which I previously mentioned and I really like the way it handles. The RL is a little more squirly at high speed but all in all its a great driving vehicle like the MDX.

Every one needs to take a deep breath and accept that we are all different people and use our cars and trucks for our own personal needs. The guy who said something like "the real trucks are the ones found a job sites" may be right. I loved the full sized GMC product but for my needs ( I sell complex software ) I did not need a full-blown pick up but I at the same time I did want one for occasional household work which the RL is perfect for. BTW my current loaner vehicle is a Chevy Colorado 4 door 4WD and I can tell you I cannot wait to get RL back.

Have a happy New Year.

scowboy

uga91

BTW my current loaner vehicle is a Chevy Colorado 4 door 4WD and I can tell you I cannot wait to get RL back.

Can't say that I blame you there!

gonzo1124

"It is posts like this that detract from what the RL fans want to say."
Oh come on, give me a break!
You have been posting negatively here for weeks now expressing your unfounded ideas and opinions against this vehicle and you get 'upset' because someone post a message to you with your same type of arrogance?
Please do us all a favor and go back to your Ford Truck board!

uga91

You have been posting negatively here for weeks now expressing your unfounded ideas and opinions against this vehicle

Actually, gonzo, I've been posting here for 2 days. My ideas are not "unfounded" either. Even edmunds.com calls the RL "the truck for someone who does not need a truck" or some such thing. I thought I did a pretty good job of sticking to facts. Either way, I was not looking for a long discussion, anyway.

gonzo1124

Have a great New Year!

thegraduate

You hardly ever see foreign trucks on the job site, supporting the US economy and being patriotic is one reason

I find fault with this statement. I wouldn't buy a Ford Fusion because it was built in Mexico, so instead I bought my Honda Accord because it was made by American hands in Ohio. Don't forget, that just because the nameplate is American, it may not have been touched by Americans in the build process. The Hyundai Sonata and Honda Odyssey are built less than an hour from my house in Birmingham, Alabama. The "foreign" companies aren't floundering in the American market like America's own GM or Ford. Ford just couldn't afford to build cars in Detroit when Mexican labor is MUCH cheaper.

rsholland

Aren't many Dodge Rams made in Mexico, and many F-Series pickups made in Canada?

Bob

uga91

My F-150 was built in the USA. Of course, I don't know where all of them are made. Also, keep in mind that the Accord was built in the US by Americans, but the profit went back to Japan. Even though the Fusion was built in Mexico, the profit goes back to Detroit. It's a Catch-22 either way you go.

varmint

"Even though the Fusion was built in Mexico, the profit goes back to Detroit." Then they take that profit and invest it in China...

Sorry, but anybody buying based on nationalist ideals is only hurting themselves. Eliminating good cars from their shopping list for reasons like that is just plain silly.

thegraduate

I agree, but was just making sure everyone knew where each car mentioned was actually made.

robr2

Even though the Fusion was built in Mexico, the profit goes back to Detroit.

As a Ford shareholder, I wish this statement were true. The revenue may be coming to the US, but there ain't no profit.

Don't forget those Honda employees spend their money in the US.

imidazol97

>Honda employees spend their money in the US

but the company and supplier profits go to .... Honda, don't they?

gonzo1124

Let me get something straight...what the heck do I care how much profit the company makes? If any of that coming back to the workers. NO! It is going back to their CEO's and rich stockholders so they can continue to get bigger salaries, bonuses and get more richer.
It is the American worker that I care about. I want these profits to come to them and I want them to spend it here, make a decent living and be able to enjoy it with their families.
The fact is that many of these companies are being run very poorly by bad management decisions and bigger egos.
American buyers should be aware of certain facts when they go to purchase "American vehicles”. Like the fact that the Chevy Equinox V-6 engines are built in China, that Dodge Neon’s come from Mexico and many, many of the Fords and GM models also come from Mexico or Canada. Even many of the Harley Davidson motorcycle parts and accessories are foreign. The new HD Buell Ulysses electrical wiring harness is built in Taiwan. I bet you American consumers don’t know that the Saturn Vue V-6 engine and transmissions are built by Honda in the US by American worker. Now, who is getting ripped here? The American workers are! The CEO's and their already rich stockholders continue to make their huge salaries and profits at the expense of the American workers.
Don’t you find it amazing that most of what we call ‘foreign car companies’ are employing Americans, have plants in the good USA, use American parts and components and are the ones putting food on American table’s everyday...unfortunately, the same cannot be said for GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc.
This “Buy American” statement to make America better is no longer true, it's a fallacy and most people are still falling for it.
I buy Honda products. At least I know that I’m supporting American families!
:shades:

qbrozen

Also, keep in mind that the Accord was built in the US by Americans, but the profit went back to Japan.

Not necessarily. Depends on what the company needs at the time. They might then spend to build more plants and offices here in the US, where they will hire more american workers. Oh, and the stockholders make out, too, and you could be one of those, if you so chose.

imidazol97

In one of the discussions here someone posted the use of suppliers that were US suppliers of parts to be used in manufacturing by US brands vs the foreign brands who manufacturer _some_ models here. The foreign brands used substantially lower percentage of US parts suppliers. AND it would be likely that ones they do use have a connection to the parent company, which reduces the local jobs you are valuing.
So,

>"Let me get something straight"

I care about the overall effect of having the companies here on the continent vs the companies who started building here to avoid the tariffs imposed during the (Carter?) presidency and get the tariffs taken off by being good companies by building here. Jobs here = good. Money flow here = good. Shareholders here = good.

4wdave1

How does one become "a rich stockholder" in Honda? Buy some stock in Honda. That way you can own a share of all those profits and keep some of the profit here.

geo9

They use/trade whats called a American Depository Reciept.
Which represents 2 actual share of "stock"

Big spender toyota paid out a measly 12 cents per "share"
SEMI ANNUALLY last year............

So much for that idea huh??????????

teter

Anyone know what the wheel specs are for the ridgeline?bolt pattern size?

gd113

Big spender toyota paid out a measly 12 cents per "share"
SEMI ANNUALLY last year............

Hmmm.. the ADR's total return was 30% for 2005. Sounds good to me. GM stock was down 50%. Their 50 cent dividend didn't help much and watch for that to be cut or suspended soon.

geo9

I suppose then its better to get .24 cents PER YEAR
dividend from 1 ADR than $2.00 PER YEAR from 1 actual
share of GM stock................

Uhhhhhh ok......................... :confuse:

gd113

No its better to have your share price increase 30% than drop 50%. Most people own stock for something called capital appreciation. $100 of Toyota is now worth $130, while $100 of GM is now worth $50. Losing 50% of value who cares about $2 :confuse:

stevedebi

International finance or Ridgeline?

gd113

It's Ridgeline. There are some poor souls here that can't get anything straight from the facts on the Ridgeline to Stocks 101. :P

KCRam

...these discussions to continue the manufacturer debate:

The UAW and Domestic Automakers
Buy American

kcram - Pickups Host