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Maserati Quattroporte 2005+

24

Comments

  • For what it's worth, our local dealer didn't recommend the sports package, didn't think it was worth the tradeoff. The 19" wheels do seem to be a bit of an improvement and comfort seems fine with excellent handling.

    The instructions concerning the phone show a convoluted setup, not at all as simple and direct as, say, a Mercedes S500 (one of the only good things about the car). Verizon doesnt want to touch the car to put in a Motorola bluetooth car kit, nor do I want them to, nor does the dealer recommend something hard wired which can cause screwed up signals to the 21 electronic control modules in the car which monitor things like electric current draw. I am about to try the Motorola Bluetooth phone with the separate wireless Bluetooth speaker; waiting for the speaker to come in. It would seem to be easily placed with velcro on any portion of the headliner or sun visor, and the velcro sticks directly without gluing backing piece. Will let you know if it works.

    The Auto shifting takes some getting used to but it is good to have the auto mode in bumper to bumper traffic, where you can't have any fun in the manual mode.
  • akuranaakurana Posts: 2
    I picked up a 05 QP with 4000 miles for 107,500 in Santa Barbara on Friday. It's a great ride but the car is with the dealer since yesterday. It refused to go into reverse, I got 15 or so errors. I'm pissed. Has anyone else had this problem?
  • Anyone have this problem? Gauge has gotten hotter intermittently, then today in traffic, got warning beeps and an engine coolant overheating message. Running the heater got it down, but it has to go in for service.
  • i had that on mine, but it seemed to correct itself
    on the other hand, i'm now on my third clutch ( after 7,000 miles ) and have just had a full new set of tyres
    .....and the phone has never been usable
    wonderful car all the same, though !
  • izeldisizeldis Posts: 3
    Just wanted to see if anyone (including Jerry) has had any problems with the Q's battery. I have an '05 with 700 miles...love it but the other day when I went to start it...it didn't. I had to have it towed with the engine running. It's at the dealer now and they think the battery is fine. Has anyone had a similar problem?
  • Got the car as a demo with 4,000 miles on it. The first week, the car was dead. Towed on flatbed to the dealership, they checked it out, couldn't find anything that drained the battery (and they had the car for a few months when new and it had no problem)(and, by the way, with the battery dead, we couldnt figure out how to get into the locked trunk), but we have had no problem whatsoever since.

    As to the overheating, there was a loose connection from one of the two fans. No problem since fix.

    Have 7,700 miles on it now, no clutch problem or tire problem. We were told to expect to normally get 12-15,000 miles tops from the wide Z tires.
  • Adding to my last message, I did try the Motorola Bluetooth phone from Verizon with the separate wireless Bluetooth speaker which we placed easily with velcro on the headliner between the sun visor and windshield. Works very well, and looks a lot easier (and a couple thousand cheaper) than the OEM optional phone.
  • izeldisizeldis Posts: 3
    Thanks for the information...I think they are going to tell me they can't do a thing. I guess I'm just going to have to risk it for now.
  • poon1poon1 Posts: 1
    Ever notice how much more estute and beautiful the car does look when you are staring at it standing on the ground, while it sits high and mighty up on the back of a flatbed?
  • I'm hunting quattroporte. I've found service in vegas to be lousy- wynn won't even let you look at a car and I can't get a firm price from towbin on a used one that has already showed on ebay for too high with interior leather repairs- so I am wondering- anyone have any dealers within 250 miles that they are very happy with? also, since I finalized my decision the 2006 is now available. Does anyone know of any distinct differences between the two model years? I am assuming that this is the last ferrari year production...any word on what alfa intends to do? I've noticed that there are quite a few dealers (and owners) dumping 2005s on the market as of late- should I purchase a 2006 or should I wait until the used prices stabilize? It does appear that resale is going to take quite a hit in the next few weeks- I can't imagine all of the 2005 low mileages floating around will help much. There's a really beautiful 'new' 2005 in SLC, however. Any help/opinion would be most appreciated.
  • dougcdougc Posts: 3
    Do you have the paddle shifter? I have an 05' GT; the downshifts are fine, the upshifts have always been problematic. At 8,000 miles the clutch is shot. Maserati's response to my warranty claim is for me to pound sand. Did you try to pursue a warranty claim?
    Thanks for your input,dc.
  • paldipaldi Posts: 210
    I'm looking for alternative wheels. Mine are 5x112.

    Image hosted by Photobucket.com
  • On my '05 Quattroporte, around 11,500 miles, clutch was making a little more noise, mostly from start and when cold. To my surprise, Maserati replaced the entire clutch, and did a software upgrade to new version. Shifts are much smoother now, in both manual and automatic. They also did a software upgrade to the engine managment and heating/AC systems, and did an upgrade (replacment) of engine mounts for smoother idle. Obviously no complaints so far to way I've been treated. Car is great for daily use, and have just put on a set of Michelin Sport AS to allow driving in the winter.

    Pirelli Rossos, on the other hand, extremely poor wear on rear. Dealer says a number of cars are only getting about 8,000 miles on them.
  • Has anyone experienced any electrical defects with their QP? I have had numerous...from head light malfunctions to window problems...and the car only has 2500 miles!
  • With 500 miles no problems until now.
  • vk00vk00 Posts: 23
    In response to jerryposner: At about 10,000 miles I also had my clutch replaced due to the same awkward noise. It is working fine now. They also performed a couple of software upgrades. I have not noticed any changes in shifting, though. Also, after the software "upgrade" to my heating/AC system it behaves funny: the fan works at maximum speed all the time. Has anyone experienced this problem? Other than that, the car is great and I enjoy every minute in it.

    Another question: What tires can on use for winter? I have Michelin Pilot now. They are great for summer, but terrible on the snow (and we have plenty of it already this season).
  • 28K miles now; no electrical problems at all.
    - CD player replaced (warranty)
    - Water pump replaced (warranty; had not failed yet)
    - Clutch at 28K
    Has never stranded me. Lots of tire wear and replacement.
    Favorite all time car
  • Hey there! My partner and I have a 2005 Quattroporte and absolutely love it. To get back to your questions on the difference between the 2005 and 2006 models are simply put: much faster shifting from the DuoSelect Transmission, also there are two new trims availalble for the Quattroporte. There is the Sport GT which boasts new 20" wheels and a carbon fiber interior and the Executive GT has an even more luxurious cabin. Happy hunting. If you have any other questions, email me.
    -Sam :D
  • Bad concept name like four doors name of Quattroporte.
    Front and rear dame ugly, i don't buy this Quattroporte for $90,000 luxury car! :cry: :mad: :sick:
  • Jaguar S-type never had a manual stick!
    You're so wrong! :cry: :confuse:
  • vk00vk00 Posts: 23
    Reply to #73 by is350fast

    What are you talking about? I had S-type with manual stick for more than two years. Initially, S-type had only auto transmission, but starting with the 2003 model they offer manual on the 3-liter one.
  • Hey,this ist a maserati forum!
  • drwag1drwag1 Posts: 7
    Hi Jerryposner,
    do you have experience now with your Michelin Sport in winter?
    drwag
  • A good friend of mine just bought the '06 model. We were out driving and I asked him what the microphone in the dash was for. My first guess was Bluetooth, but I just read the the car does not have a Bluetooth package available.

    Also, there is a slot just below the radio buttons that looks like a small memory card could fit into it. What is this for? MP3's?
  • vk00vk00 Posts: 23
    Hi.

    Quattroporte has the wiring for a cell phone. If you put a SIM card into the slot in the dashboard, you will be able to speak into the microphone and the sound will come out through the speakers.
  • So far have been decent in light snow, but I have avoided taking the car out in deep snow or stormy conditions. Ride and handling are decent.
  • nas001nas001 Posts: 1
    Hey there,
    Would like to buy a QP, new 2006 model, what are the known problems, how's the ride in heavy work-home traffic. Please some feedback.

    Thanks

    Norbert
  • drwag1drwag1 Posts: 7
    Hey Norbert,
    there is one peculiarity: if in traffic jam the car stands longer than 1 minute with running engine and without put on the brakes (that´s possible), the gearbox change from 1. gear to neutral, that means before start again you have to shift the 1. gear again. No problem ar all, but you you have to know. The same thing after 10 minutes if car stands with running engine and brakes put on.
    drwag
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    Reading some of these posts, including the one above, make me think that anyone who buys one of these for his daily driver is nuts. For a third car that a couple could stash in Watch Hill for weekends, OK. But there are better, more fun candidates for weekend cars.

    On the other hand, maybe if you wait a couple more years you could snap one up for 30K. But, even that may not be a good deal unless they throw in a complete Snap On red roll away, transmission jack, and flywheel grinder so you could do the clutch yourself every 10K.
  • cashcarcashcar Posts: 15
    FROM: [email protected]

    My love affairs with cars began with a 1939 BMW 327 Cabrio, (with 328 racing engine), acquired in Germany while in OSS in WWII. There have been numerous affairs since then with many others: MBZ,Rolls, Bentley,Alfa,Audi,Ferrari,Lancia,Siata, Aston Martin,Porsche,Jag,VW Phaeton W12,
    Iso,Mini,and more. At present I own 10 vehicles.
    My latest love,a new 2005 Maserati QP in Dolomite Quartz,(Gold with Medium Tan),
    with many options. As of now, she is so
    utterly beautiful and seductive that she keeps me awake at nights. If,as I have heard it said, she proves to be an expensive and troublesome mistress, I may have to really consider whether or not she is worth the trouble. As of now, I am completely under her spell.
    More later as I live with her.
    "carfreak"
  • cashcarcashcar Posts: 15
    to kbrookings wherever you may be:
    -your cogent comments were a huge
    factor in my decision to buy the
    QP instead of replacing my C4 with
    a new Porsche Turbo. The seats in the
    Porsche are still almost as hugely
    uncomfortable as they were 40 years
    ago. I guess I have come to insist on
    some comfort along with performance
    as I have grown older.

    a/ka/a "carfreak"
  • cashcarcashcar Posts: 15
    Jerry & bickislandguy & other QP critics:

    If you are going to concentrate your
    criticisms, as do do many of you, on
    the electronic gadgets,
    don't blame the car manufacturers,
    blame Bill Gates. His is the software.
    They build racing cars, not commuter
    cars. You can go to the [non-permissible content removed] for that.

    Many of you probably learned to drive on a Lexus type car which does the driving for you, rather than being engaged with with the vehicle itself.
    The F1 tranny works for Michael
    Schumacher, the present Formula One
    Champion. I suggest you go to Monaco, see the Gran Prix there, and wonder why he
    can beat all the other cars in the
    world with a tranny you find either
    frustrating or difficult. Have you ever heard, perhaps from your grandfathers,
    what it was like to drive a stick shift
    which was non synchronous, where one had to double-clutch, as it was called,
    to shift gears? No wonder you are in
    trouble with this vehicle, the answer
    to every real driver's dream!!
    Performance, luxury, exotic beauty
    and quality all in one very reasonably
    priced package. I suggest you buy the
    overpriced Bentley GT or so called
    Flying Spur instead of the
    Maserati QP. As the Brits say about
    the "new" Bentleys: " A VW Phaeton in
    a hand made suit".
    "carfreak"

    P.S. I have always had at least one
    or more real Bentley or Rollers in my
    garage for the last 50 years.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "The seats in the Porsche are still almost as hugely uncomfortable as they were 40 years ago. I guess I have come to insist on some comfort along with performance as I have grown older."

    I'm no spring chicken myslef, but I can't imagine anyone finding the seats of my 997S "hugely uncomfortable" unless they were excessivly bottom heavy.

    If I get to the point where I would justify trading the performance of 911 Turbo for the comfort of the QP (or an SL or ...) my living will should allow my wife to pull the plug. ;)
  • cashcarcashcar Posts: 15
    Hi Habitat:

    If I were bottom heavy, as you seem to
    imply, I might find it more comfortable. Fact is I have not much butt at all. I weigh the same 143 lbs that I did when I first went to Columbia College in 1936. Also I have been a Porsche enthusiast for 4 decades, but as a weekend fun machine to play at being Fangio.
    I have owned at least 14 different
    Porsches over the years, including 4 different Turbo models, the first Turbo in 1979. The only truly comfortable
    Porsche I ever found was my 928. Now those were seats which were comfortable
    for me and my wife all the way from the Big Apple to Key West and back. 997's and any and all earlier 911 series have those antiquated one piece seats with a non ergonomic hard as nails quality, at least for me. Even the pitiful attempts at adaptive controls are minimal. I admit I am spoiled since
    I have used my experience with owning
    Rollers and Bentley sedans, 60's Flying Spurs, and Crewe manufactured 90's Continental R's as the standard. The new Bentley Continental GT is comfortable because it is a Phaeton in a hand made suit; but then VW makes their seats not Porsche. Porsches are great and so are their classical styling, but comfort and interiors are not their strong suits.


    My Maserati Quattroporte has an adaptive seat system from which Porsche could learn. Porsche produces fantastic performers, and my C4 Cabriolet can handle winter roads and summer stares, but is not comfortable for trips over
    50 miles, at least for me. Performance and reliability are its strong points, but its entire interior has made little
    progress in the 45 years since the 911 series first saw the light of day, in my
    opinion. My 1985 R5 Turbo 2 had seats that put the Porsche to shame.
    Porsche has made and continues to make
    superb, reliable high performance machines but will bever win any kudos for its interior or ergonomics.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Well, given that you started college about 20 years before I was born and you still weigh the same, I have absolutely nothing but respect for you. Not to mention that you've had and still have an impressive stable of high end cars.

    I guess when it comes to comfort, it's all personal. I had an easier time driving a 900 mile rountrip in my 997 than I do in my Acura TL. I prefer a firm, Recaro style seat to one that is softer, but not supportive in key areas. Of course, the TL is hardly the comparison you were making to your other fine cars.

    Accept my best wishes for continued good health and driving enjoyment. :)
  • cashcarcashcar Posts: 15
    Thank you "mille fois" as the French say for your kind words.
    As for the Acura, I have had no experience with the vehicle, but I understand it is a reliable and durable daily driver. I presume that is how it is used, and that makes it probably the best for that purpose. Depending on one's needs and uses,"the best car" choice should change.
    As for the 997 Turbo, for reliability and performance in a sports car, you clearly
    have "the best" and I admire your choice.
    The hotties will sure jump into that car...there the Honda just doesn't
    cut it!
    So Happy Hunting in that Turbo!!
    As for the seating, once the Hottie
    manages to squeeze her way in, she can't
    readily get out.And, depending on your
    situation in life, that can be a good
    thing or a bad thing.
    As for the Turbo, she clearly is your
    present love, as she should be. She is
    loyal, reliable, exciting and beautiful.
    What more could one ask for? And besides,
    you can always trade her in or sell her
    if things don't work out.
    So, bottom line, you have clearly made
    an exquisite choice.
    Good Luck with her and thanks again
    for your kind wishes for my good health.
  • Frankly, the comfort of the QP was one of the big attractions. My father has been driving S class Mercedes for over 25 years, and the last two were so uncomfortable, I had to sit on a $5 Murray's seat cushion - in a $90,000 car. I don't find sitting on concrete, and concrete with a crack across your [non-permissible content removed], comfortable at all, but apparently Mercedes does, despite extensive customer complaints.

    We use the QP for commuting at least three days a week with no problems. It has been reliable and comfortable, though the trans is not as tractable as many other cars, and having a car that will go 172 mph in bumper to bumper traffic can be frustrating. But give me a little opening in traffic, and . . . . . And there is no other big car on the road that gathers more stgares or thumbs up signs.
  • One of my (younger) business partners is seriously considering the Quattroporte and, claiming respect for my opinion (i.e. kiss up), asked for my advice.

    I immediately, and perhaps prematurely, questioned his judgement. I am unfortunately old enough to remember the QP of the early 80's, but not so old to have forgotten it's horrific reliability issues and ridiculous depreciation. In the meantime, a good friend has a 4+ year old Ferrari 360 that he can sell for a small profit, whereas another associate has a 3 year old Maserati Spyder that will cost him an arm and a leg to dispose of. Not to mention numerous problems along the way.

    I know there is a certain panache with the Maserati nameplate. And I'm far from a practical person that criticizes others indulgences. Part of me would tell my partner to go for it and let him experience whatever consequences result, good or bad. But another part of me finds it difficult to passively recommend a nameplate that left so many similarly enthusiastic buyers holding the bag 25 years ago - and is still a questionable value when it comes to depreciation.

    P.S. Regarding seat "comfort", how would you who rate the QP very high (vs. Mercedes) rate it against the seats in the M5 (previous or current). I am just curious.
  • paxtonkpaxtonk Posts: 49
    Seeing that the current QP has only been around for 1+ years time will only tell; but I can tell you this, our current pre-owned are selling for a fraction off of original MSRP.
  • murrayrmurrayr Posts: 7
    I have previously commented about the Q some months ago. Maserati replaced my first Q, turned around and sold it to another unsuspecting customer after multiple problems (sensors, clutch, computer) at just about 3k miles.

    Now for my second Q. Just back from receiving a new drive shaft, had to send the main computer back to NJ for reprogramming and, yes, also replaced the clutch and throw-out bearing. All under one year of ownership.

    The factory rep tried to tell me this wasn't so unusual and that MB and BMWs, etc, etc.

    When it runs, nothing like it. But this is a troubled car/manufacturer. The service dept at the dealership has been wonderful. Maserati has yet to acknowledge their problems with this car's quality. If the owners ever got together, Maserati would have a real problem.

    Avoid it for now, unless you want to buy mine...
  • vk00vk00 Posts: 23
    It might be that the participants of this message board are not a statistically correct representation of all QP owners. After all, if your car does not have any problems, why would you spend your time here? But here is my contribution.

    My QP is now 13 months old, and I have 14K miles on it. The main problems that I had were related to the battery and the clutch (both were replaced about 6 months ago). There were several smaller ones, none of them urgent, and they were all resolved when I was bringing the car to the dealership for regular service.

    The only one that is still not resolved is the climate control system. When it is cold outside and the climate system is set on "full auto," the speed of the fan is sometimes so high that I cannot hear the radio. The mechanics dealt with it three times without any luck. Finally I gave up and started setting the fan speed manually (When you cannot find a bug, call it "a feature"). Besides, it is warm now and it behaves fine anyway.

    The service is excellent. The dealer normally picks up a car from my house and brings it back couple of days later. If I need a car during this period, they would give a loaner, but in that case I would have to drive to the dealership myself.

    I also had a bad experience with the summer tires during the snow storm in February. I decided to buy winter tires, but cannot tell you the results because there was no snow since then, and now it is time to switch back.

    The seat is very comfortable: I had several 4-5 hour trips last summer, and could easily make them without a single stop.

    In summary, I am very happy with the car. Of course, I do not plan to keep it beyond the 3-year warranty period. But I very well may trade it in for a new one just before the warranty expires..
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Very interesting reading here. I'm curious to know what you'll replace your Quattroporte with after the warranty runs out?

    M
  • paxtonkpaxtonk Posts: 49
    "In summary, I am very happy with the car. Of course, I do not plan to keep it beyond the 3-year warranty period. But I very well may trade it in for a new one just before the warranty expires.. "

    I would say he plans to get another QP. Not owning one I don't have a history to tell but I was fortunate enough to drive one for a few days and must say it is far superior to any 4 door I have ever driven.
  • vk00vk00 Posts: 23
    If the second year and another 15K do not result in any disaster, I will definitely consider buying another QP. I certainly like QP much more than other cars in this class. I also hope that some of the bugs will be cleaned out, and that will make QP even more attractive.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I see. Everyone here seems to love this car no matter what happens with it. That says something. Maybe one day I'll get a chance to drive one and see what all the love is about.

    Did anyone here consider the new M5 before buying the Quattroporte?

    M
  • jjvincejjvince Posts: 1
    I am fortunate enough to have a 2006 Quattroporte along with a 2005 Gransport. Both cars are an absolute dream, and I have had no trouble (with the exception of a new battery in the Gransport... covered by the warranty). My neighbor has a New 2006 M5 and I must say it is a beautiful car and it exhibits the same power curve (once you figure out how to put the computer in high power mode) that my 2004 S55 did. As for the interior... well, as nice as his M5 is, I'd take the QP any day!

    I almost purchased a Flying Spur, I had my 5k deposit down and everything until I drove the QP... I was sold on the first drive. To me it is (almost) as luxurious as the Flying Spur, but handles so much better there is really no comparison. So I guess my point is that there are trade offs in every car you buy, and it all boils down to what you want in an automobile. By the way, My Gransport will take the M5 off the line every time, (even with his power launch) but he does have the power to blow by me at around 95mph, but then I pass him by like he's standing still when we exceed his speed limiter at 150mph... (the 210 fwy at 6:30 - 7am on a Sunday, during the Highway Patrol's shift change is the place to be) for the most part we were the only cars on the road, until around 7, then I had to back off from 180mph (and still not peaked out) because there were a few too many cars on the road to insure the safety for all concerned.

    Resale???? Who knows... Maintenance??? My S55 was the loneliest car I ever had, by that I mean it constantly needed the companionship of its brothers and sisters at the dealership... (Penske Motorcars) Not to mention any names of course...

    If you want a rocket ship, buy a Nobel (0 to 60 in 3.2 seconds) If you want the ULTIMATE in Luxury... get a Bentley (Flying Spur or Arnage)... If you want a great compromise between the two, power, handling and luxury... There is only ONE selection in my book... the Quattroporte is phenomenal!

    Just my 2 cents...

    John
  • Two Maseratis in the garage deserves congratulations, not rebuke.

    However, I do have to take a little issue with what appears to be overly enthusiastic performance claims. Over the last several weeks, I have driven a variety of cars in order to confirm my decision to order a 2007 997 Turbo. Amoung them, I drove a well broken-in Maserati Gransport extensively. I own a 2003 M5 (the 400 hp weakling, but with the proper 6-speed manual) and have also driven the new M5 with it's 507 hp V10 hooked up to a rather frustrating 7-speed SMG. And I have driven a new 911S extensively.

    The following are my opinions: I liked the Gransport more than I expected, it is a very nice car in all regards. But it did not feel nearly as quick "off the line" in my hands as a 911S. The new M5 should be quicker yet, but I would agree, the SMG "launch control" is a mess. On one attempt, it shot forward like a rocket. But for the rest of my driving experience, I wished I could have "shot" the BMW engineer that authored this SMG travesty. My own 2003 M5 6-speed feels about as quick as the Gransport.

    Being curious as to how you and I could have such different impressions / experiences, I looked up some road tests to see if I was mis-impressed. It appears not. Here are some results:

    Road Tests

    Maserati GS: 0-60: 4.9; 0-100: 11.7
    BMW M5: 0-60: 4.6; 0-100: 9.8
    Porsche 911S: 0-60: 4.2; 0-100: 10.7
    My 2003 M5: 0-60: 4.8; 0-100: 11.6 (from Road and Tack)

    It is kind of silly debating the relative quickness of cars that are all more than adequately fast, but the above results are pretty close to my own (relative) experience.

    The Gransport and AM V8 appear to be destined to a Mexican showdown. Very similar performance, top of the line interiors. Italian vs. English appeal. :D
  • murrayrmurrayr Posts: 7
    You ARE fortunate. There is no doubt providence smiles kindly on many people. While I've owned a number of Porsches and BMW, this was my first venture into the quasi-exotic field. The Q is supposedly being upgraded in 07 with a new transmission and larger clutch.

    I am told by a reliable source that the Q's clutch is simply too small for the design of the car. I have just delivered my car to the dealer for the fourth (not yet documented, but I am sure) major service and if my ears heard what I've heard before, still another throw-out bearing and clutch.

    Hears how to tell yours might be bad. Face the car up and incline and accelerate (doesn't have to be pedal to the metal) and listen for a rubbing noise an instant before the clutch grabs. If yours has none, you've won the Maserati lottery.

    Best of luck. By the way, keep it for a while, trade in will disappoint.
  • mickylmickyl Posts: 14
    Hi, I am a prospective buyer of Maserati QP and have been doing my usual research and I came across this discussion, which I have found to be very helpful. I do have a question for you gentlemen and/or ladies here. Currently, I see the Maserati manufacturer is running a lease program. In light of the problems, especially with the clutch and bearing of the car, would you suggest that I lease it for now? Any suggestion is welcome.

    Also, should I wait for 2007 in hopes that the manufacturer will fit a larger clutch for this car? Plus, I hear that the manufacturer will scrap the manual transmission all together. Is that for fact that they will do that?

    Mike
  • paxtonkpaxtonk Posts: 49
    First off I need to tell you that I am a Salesman for a Ferrari / Maserati dealer which means I am slightly bias.

    This is the first we have seen Maserati release a subvented money factor for the QP, this plus the fact they are forcing dealers to discount the car a few thousand is how you get to the lease special. In the past the lease didn't make much sense and most were financed without the dealer having to discount much if any.

    If you can live with the 10k per year then I would opt for the lease as I see it as an insurance policy. What I mean by this is that if the car's value is less than the residual at the end of the lease you can turn it in, if the car's value is higher than the residual then you have the option to purchase it and do as you like.

    The funny thing is that you get a forced discount with the lease but if you plan to finance or pay cash a dealer would not be so inclined to offer the same discount.

    From what I have been told east cost sales have been slightly sluggish and this is why the lease was introduced which in turn is effecting the west coast dealers by forcing them to discount when in the past they typically didn't need to.

    You probably will not see the new full automatic until 2008. The 2007 model will only be getting bigger brakes from what I have heard.

    If I haven't answered all your questions please ask again.

    PRK
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