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Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan)

highenderhighender Posts: 1,365
edited June 2014 in Porsche
Porsche has made it clear it will use the V8 developed for the Cayenne and place it in either a 2+2 coupe or 4 door sedan.... I think it will fill a gap for the sport sedan /coupe niche. What do you think ?


  • sure, why not? maserati has the quattroporte, aston martin had the lagonda, so why not porsche?
    bring it on, zuffhausen!
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    There is no way Porsche is going to make a sedan. Yes this same thing was said about the Cayenne, but a sedan is just too much. They better not!

    I expect a 2+2 GT to take on various Bentley, Aston-Martin, and Ferrari "GT" cars.

    Aston and Maserati have a tradition of having a sedan, Porsche doesn't.

    What's next? A Ferrari SUV?

    Porsche better stay true here and bring out a 928 type car, not a sedan!!!

    The funny part is that knowing how the Germans feel about other Germans invading their special segments, like MB did with the A-Class, which caused VW to do the Phaeton.......BMW, MB and Audi won't take it sitting down if Porsche does do a sedan, they'll start building 911 competitors left and right. Audi already intends to do this with the LeMans Quattro. BMW and Mercedes will have to build a true 911 competitor if Porsche does this...the German's competitiveness won't allow anything less.

  • so maybe this would be a good thing then?
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 32,337
    might not be bad if they did a variation on the RX-8 theme (sports car/coupe with an actually usable back seat). Kind of a "grown up" 911 with the engine in the front.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    You mean Porsche doing another GT type car like the 928 or the outbreak of competition between the German brands??

    A few hours earlier I received a new issue of Autoweek and on the cover is a mid-engine sports car from Mercedes for 2008 to do battle with the 360 Modena, Ford GT, Lambo Gallardo etc etc, also built built with help from MB's F1 partner McLaren. This car (if built) will undoubtedly do battle with the next generation 911. Seems the Germans are already doing the latter of the two scenarios huh?

  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,365
    yes, I see your point.

    since others are making sports cars, albeit not direct 911 competitors, then maybe Porsche can or should do a 2+2 sport coupe. They may even do a sedan ?

      It seems they always wanted to do a replacement for the 928....a grand touring 2+2 coupe...

    But a sedan......ummmm...that would capture some or the older affluent empty nesters, the bulk of the baby boomers...
  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,365
    so if the battle is already least clandestinely in the project rooms and boardrooms., then maybe Porsche should do a sedan and a 2+2 coupe. Try to maintain market share...

    But would it dilute the brand ?

    Would the thousands of retiring baby boomers (I hear that there are 5000 of them retiring every day ?) want to buy a more practical sporty Porsche, or want the purist 911 ?

    Is there a need to have a 928 replacement ?

    what do you guys think ?
  • i think porsche has surprised even people like me with their good reliability ratings of late and willingness to tackle their competitors head on. i know i was very apprehensive about the cayenne when i first heard about it, but people seem to like it.

    i think a fwd grand touring car with completely different styling than the 911/boxster egg shape would be exciting. it would add a new dimension to their line-up, that's for sure. i think a sleek 2+2 or sportwagon (shooting brake for you british types) like the RX-8 or the alfa romeo 156 sportwagon could work.

    i'm not so sure about a full sedan like the maserati quattroporte though. i guess if porsche wants to stay alive like bmw they're going to have to grow or die. maybe a sleek sedan isn't such a bad idea. even if we never buy one, it'll sure make for good reading and gawking! ha ha!
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I personally think Porsche does need to do another GT car. The Ferrari 612 Scagletti, Bentley Continental GT, and Mercedes CL65 AMG all need to be answered, since these heavy "GT" cars are able to readily outrun most 911s. I see the Porsche GT being like the 612, lighter than the others in the class (the Bentley is obese) and able to outperform them with less power.

  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,365
    of would be nice for Porsche to answer the sport sedans with one of its own...

    However, would it dilute the name brand, any more than the Cayenne ? I guess it may not....since it is just really updating the 928...though there are a lot of people angry at the 928 also.

      Should it be the fastest sedan on the market, or just be fast enough....ala Jaguar XJR ?
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,148
    Maybe Porsche has seen an opportunity to invade the BMW space given Mr. Bangle's decimation of the BMW sedan lineup. I for one would love the option of replacing my E39 5-Series with a Porsche RWD sedan with a V8 and a 6-Speed manual. Drool, slobber. ;-)

    Best Regards,
  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,365
    yeah, I think it would be great for a rwd GT sedan with 300 to 450 hp....but weighs less than 3400 lbs...that would make it a great performer..

    but it has to be priced right....around 60K to 90K.....IMO>
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I don't think Porsche can do it with sports cars alone. Cayenne is saving them. There's no reason to believe they can't do it with a sedan.

    The 928 had nothing to offer enthusiasts and couldn't garner new buyers. Which market could it steal buyers from? Please, not another one.

    Give the world a Porsche that can fit four full size human beings comfortably, outperform every sedan out there with just a hint of luxury and it could bring a herd over from all corners of the performance/luxury sedan world.

    Anything they can possibly do to save themselves and their venerable sports cars gets my vote.

    Just the thought of the release of a Porsche performance sedan with their hallmark minimal styling pushes all of my car thrill buttons. I can almost visualize it.
  • speeds2muchspeeds2much Posts: 164
    Ever since Porsche announced development of the Cayenne, I've wondered why the company didn't simply leverage the 996 platform and build a sedan, preferably with an AWD version. That would pull in the Porschephiles who wanted a Porsche but needed real 4-seat capacity and a decent trunk, without taking money away from racing and sports car development. I'm not sure the Cayenne has "legs," especially if the economy turns south again.

    Anyway, like designman, I can almost picture the sedan and I bet it will be a truly desirable car.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I often wonder how long this SUV phenomena is going to last. There's just so much excess. Then again sports/performance cars fall into the same category. What's also interesting is the plight of German cars. You have to wonder if platform diversity is necessary for survival and how Porsche plans to deal with it.

    Speeds2much, I hope things are going well and that this fall brings a lot of 997 ownership chat from you. Be careful of those FMY issues though.
  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,365
    it seems like the SUV craze will die down a bit , especially among the people who just bought it for the style, instead of the utility.

    sports sedans are still good.
    sports station wagons are going strong
    sports coupes are making a comeback...

    I just feel that Porsche is reacting to the market, and doing it really late (always late to the party), instead of being the innovative, benchmark setting , auto maker...

    Can they get their act together sooner ??

    They should know that a lot of sports 4 door sedan buyers are going to get the BMW740, Maserati, etc...and hold on to those cars for a few years....
  • steven2steven2 Posts: 37
    Why could Porsche not put out a sedan that would compete with an M5 or a Mercedes E AMG? They could offer better performance while sacraficing a little interior quality, for roughly the same price as those two.
  • speeds2muchspeeds2much Posts: 164
    Yep, designman, you make a good point on the practicality of SUVs vs sports cars. On my scale of practical vs excess, the Cayenne just falls off the chart on the excess side, whereas a Boxster or 996 justifies itself simply because it's so fun (more so than any truck would be). For those few who own a Cayenne because they wanted a Porsche but needed the space, too bad Porsche isn't building them a sedan, eh?

    Anyway, the 997 is on my radar screen. I can't predict whether I'll order one this year. Depends on my trading account, because I would not buy a car at that price if I had to make the payments out of ordinary income. Would want to put a huge chunk down or pay cash. So maybe this year, maybe next...but some day... :o))
  • sphinx99sphinx99 Posts: 776
    Porsche sedan: I think it's a great idea!
  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,365
    think a sedan or grand touring car would be about right for the changed market....I think Porsche should make a very fluid , very sensual, yet roomy sedan ....looks should be very high on the list of goals....;-)
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    This link appeared in another thread and got my heart pumping. Amazing how it looks almost exactly how I imagined it. The poster said Porsche is actually considering it but didn't give any info. Comments? Personally, I'm drooling. ;amp- ;pos=1
  • speeds2muchspeeds2much Posts: 164
    For those of you who can get ahold of the July 2004 issue of Car, there are two artist's renditions of the proposed Porsche sedan on pages 14-15.

    It essentially looks like a stretch 997, although the front fascia is slightly different. There's a horizontal air intake between the front edge of the "bonnet" lid and bumper assembly, and the front airdam looks more wide-open, like the mouth of a lion. ;o)

    The article mentions Porsche's dilemma of whether to produce a sedan or a bargain-basement, 4-cylinder roadster (the little black and white rendition reminds me of a leaner version of the BMW Z3.

    The sedan is really exactly what I had in mind, and what I hoped for on these boards, so I must say I like it. Basically, it's without a doubt a classic Porsche shape and it probably can utilize the 997 platform without much difficulty, saving development time and costs. Personally, I think Porsche should go with a sedan first, and maybe never build the 4-banger. The history of capitalism (and Porsche) is littered with the remains of once-mythic brands that lose something when they get greedy for volume.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Speeds2much, thanks, will check that out. In the meantime the link in post #24 isn't working... got corrupted somehow. Here it is again: p;am- p;pos=1
  • speeds2muchspeeds2much Posts: 164
    Nice link, Designmen. While I didn't compare the pics side-by-side, I think the pictures you unearthed are the same as the ones in Car.
  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,365
    while I like the concept of a 4 seater with a V8, I did not expect to see such close resemblance to the 993-997 . I was expecting something of a morph of the old 928 with 996/997 with some design cues from the Maserati/Feerari sedans....

    I like the one you guys posted, but think that the design should be even more exclusive. Remember the complaints about how the boxster and 911 front end looking virtually identical ? I think there should be design cues that identify it instantly as a Porsche, but without so much similarities that it steals from its own customer base(i.e. the 911 fans) without opening new territoties. Any idea whether the design we saw is still fluid, or is it in stone ?
  • speeds2muchspeeds2much Posts: 164
    highlander...The article in Car said that Porsche hasn't even decided whether to build a sedan or an entry-level roadster. The pic was only a drawing. So, I think we can conclude there's room for changes.

    You're right I should be more svelte like a Maserati. Neverthless, at least a "stretch 997" would be better than a shrunken Cayenne. ;o)
  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,365
    agree , and I am a die hard Cayenne owner too.... :)

    Do you think they should have 4 doors, or just 2 , like the 928 ?
  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,365
    I think they(porsche) are already forming the design elements now...maybe they have many drawings and clay models already too.

    I'm on my 3rd Porsche now...and still have not had a 911...maybe when the kids grow up.... :(

    what car do you have, speeds2much ?
  • steven2steven2 Posts: 37
    This does not look at all like a luxuy sedan. It looks like an extended 911 with 4 doors- essentially a big hatchback. Maserati didn't have to use a coupe rear to make their sedan. Porsche really must be stuck on coupes-only.
  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,365
    had a article with a sketch that looked like a cross between a 928, a Nissan 300ZX, and 911.

    I think they should go for the sedan, if there is a market. Of course, part of the joy of owning a Porsche is the sports car aspect of it. There are lots of luxury sports cars., so I hope they make one that looks sexy, powerful and stylish....a real head turner... !!
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