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Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan)



  • speeds2muchspeeds2much Posts: 164
    highender...I'm driving a 2003 Jag X-type 2.5 with a 5-speed. The lease is up Sept 2005, so really I have no sense of urgency regarding a new car. While the car has been reliable and it gets better as it gets broken in, I'm sort of suffering with it. It just isn't pieced together in the way I expect of a $40,000 European sports sedan.

    Recently I changed career directions, including setting up a consulting business, so I've been a little cautious financially, but I'm giving serious consideration to buying a 997 coupe. Just returned from a four-day trip through New England and I was thinking the whole time what a great road car the Porsche would be....
  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,365
    Yeah...I had a 12 cylinder Jag XJ also,....and heard a lot of horror stories. Had some problems, relatively minor, but the car could not handle. The 300 hp felt like 200, and gas mileage was only 11 or 13 mpg. I mean , the style and prestige is there..."it is a JAG !" , but I think it was just not for me, at least for another 15 years.

    Sounds like you will be ready for the 997 in a year or two....good luck on your business, and may all the winds be behind you... :)
  • speeds2muchspeeds2much Posts: 164
    highender...Interesting comments on your XJ, confirming my suspicions. The X-type's deficiencies, e.g. noise, interior space, creaks, jerky handling, fuel economy have diminished my respect for the brand overall and had made me look at the XJ with a jaundiced eye. I really don't aspire to owning the higher models in the line after driving this Jag, which makes me realize that going downmarket is not necessarily the right way to hook people into a can backfire if not done right.

    Regarding the 997, there's an outside chance I'll order one this winter. Depends on how my business goes. One lingering question I'll throw out to the durable do you expect a 997 to be, i.e. how many miles could be put on one, assuming synthetic oil, no track time, meticulous maintenance? I would think the body could go for hundreds of thousands of miles and last for 20 years or more. What about the engine, etc.? I'd want to purchase the car and keep it...aleady have it paid for before any future wife could say "no." lol
  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,365

    I do not know , but my guess would be that it would last a long time, since Porsches have a history of durability. They claim that over 67% of all Porsches EVER built are still road worthy and on the roads....

    again, good luck and have a great 4th...
  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,365
    porsche has not decided which way to proceed...but may not have a close derivative to 928...but may use the 911 platform....

    hope they get their act together...
  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,365
    says that Porsche is now really slow in developing the 4th model ,,.,...
    excluding the limited edition carrera super car.

    maybe a low end level lower than the boxster....

    or a very highend model....a $150,000 plus model....( no, the 911 turbo with X50 does not count). They have not entered this market yet...

    No 911 based 4 door or 928 substitute.... :(
  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
    Four-Door Porsche Sedan Set for Frankfurt Debut

    STUTTGART, Germany — Porsche will unveil a fifth model line, a luxury four-door coupe called the Panamera, at the Frankfurt auto show in September.

    Looking like a stretched 911, the Panamera will become Porsche's flagship, and will go head-to-head with the Mercedes-Benz CLS and the Maserati Quattroporte.

    The Panamera will go into production in 2008. It will be powered by the same 4.5-liter V8 engines found in the Cayenne SUV, in both 340-horsepower naturally aspirated form and 450-hp turbocharged form. And like the Cayenne, which shares running gear with the Volkswagen Touareg, the car could be built on a platform shared with VW. Read More >>

  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,365
    nice pics, sylvia>>!

    I thought that Porsche and Weideking (CEO) said they would delay making a decision on which way to go until next year....

    but that was in a magazine...which we all know to be wrong sometimes....

    hmmm....if it looks like the picture, or some iteration close to it, I would not mind getting one...but would like to see the front and interior....
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Its too bad BMW and Mercedes don't have a true sports car on the level of the 911 because Porsche it appears is heading right for the heart of their business - sedans. CLS55, M5, RS6 lookout!

    I'm really curious to know what that Mclaren lineup of Mercedes sports cars would have looked liked. Oh well.

    Whats next for Porsche a crossover to tackle the Mercedes R-Class?

  • I can't believe Porsche released an SUV before releasing a sedan. Anyway, this sedan was worth the wait. This sedan is the best looking model in the entire Porsche lineup. It's got sleek looks, and the performance to back it up. Watch out Mercedes CLS! Has pricing and performance been announced?
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    We're seeing photochops. Even if Porsche shows the concept this fall at Frankfurt, expect it to be different and then to undergo finer development with revisions. It's early in the game and I would be surprised to see it done before MY 2009.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    This year's Frankfurt "motor show" is shaping up to be the biggest in recent memory. I mean a new S-Class, a totally new model in concept form from Porsche. The last time Porsche did this, the Carrera GT was born, though at Paris in 2000. I gather we'll see the 3-Series Coupe and the Audi LeMans in production form? Should be a hell of a show.

    I doubt if the Porsche concept will look anything like that awful Carrera GT/Lexus GS looking thing floating around the net.

  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,365
    the idea of a 4 seater, 4 door Porsche sedan....

    the CLS from mercedes is good looking...but hope the P will be better...

    I imagine a sedan with the V8 twin turbo will weigh about 4400 lbs....and cost around $85,000......since it would have less hardware than the cayenne...and the developemnt cost of the V8 had already been spread out.

    Did Porsche anounce that they wouold build this sedan ? Last months Motor Trend said that Prosche will decide if they will build it end of this year....
  • chris65amgchris65amg Posts: 372
    Large luxury sedans are a sticky wicket for automakers, if only because there are so many ways to approach them. You could make a big cushion like the LS430 or an ugly, albeit athletic 745. I really think that if Porsche can make this car reminiscient of the 911, then they'll be sold out fast. I don't really like the CLS, artially because it sounds like Cialis.

    "So what do you drive?"
    "A CLS 500"
    "Is that a NASCAR race?"

    Anyway, the Panamera sounds better rounded than the CLS, and in terms of performance, how much of a chance does a Mercedes stand against a Porsche? :D
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Two different design philosophies. As we know, MB is luxury plus point-and-shoot street torque. Porsche is a blend of road and track handling and speed. Will be interesting to see how Porsche sticks to its formula and just how much luxury will go into it. However it had better not be overpriced or it's going nowhere.

    It seems Porsche's financial strategies have worked in the last 10 years so I would expect this car to be well-calculated and targeted, not just an ego trip. If they overdo any aspect it could lose a lot of sales. The right blend of performance, luxury, size, price could really pickpocket the luxury makers—and what a coup that would be since they are not about luxury.

    They have to nail this from several angles if they want it to ring up the cash register IMO. Very hard to predict, not only from our side but especially theirs I would imagine. Would be nice to be a fly on the wall of their think tank to see what is transpiring with this car.

    I'm not getting my hopes up too much. In the end it may be too much for them to handle unless Toyota decides to be generous with their hybrid technology. You heard that right. It won't be long before hybrid will have come a long way from Prius.
  • chris65amgchris65amg Posts: 372
    Porsche is more about the driving than even BMW. I hope that they don't compromise this just because it's a big car.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I look at the top 3 Germans like this:

    Mercedes-Benz: ultimate power, luxury, comfort, safety, technology combined with best in class high-speed stability (especially AMGs) and timeless styling. Simply put the best darn luxury road car going today.

    BMW: ultimate handling, control, cutting edge design (for better or worse), a naturally aspirated engine and (engines period) expert, truly the ultimate driving machine. The ultimate in luxury cars if you really enjoy hard driving and even the occasional track experience. The biggest difference between MB and BMW for decades and probably always will be.

    Porsche: the scientific sports car. Precise, measured, calculating excellence, timeless design, dual-purpose street to track with no sweat. There really is no substitute.

  • chris65amgchris65amg Posts: 372
    They're nice driver's cars, but there's something about Porsche that sets them in a higher tier than BMW IMO. Probably because Porsche is most meticulous making sure that everything performancewise is great. BMW has compromised (and forfeited, IMO) their spot as the world's best driving car because:

    iDrive My uncle got a 2004 760i with iDrive. He collects cars (lucky old man) He called me over so I could figure it out with him. I left with a headache. Now I have an excuse to ask to drive his 911, though :D

    Ugly styling on upper end models I know that styling is subjective, but the 7 Series just looks bad to me.

    Silly SMG.

    I dunno about Mercedes. I haven't driven one in years.
  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,365
    is bench tested and made sure each one produces at least the 340 hp or 450 hp, before they are released for installation ...

    I think AMG also does this, tho MB itself does NOT.

    I think BMW also do not ....but I don;t know if the Motorsport division does..

    at least one knows the hp is for real.....each engine will make a diff hp....even tho all components are the same....
  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    Someone on this thread said the following about the upcoming Porsche:

    "Should it be the fastest sedan on the market, or just be fast enough....ala Jaguar XJR ?"

    Car & Driver's long-term aluminum 2004 Jaguar XJR went from 0 to 60 mph in 4.7 seconds, 0 to 100 mph in 11.3 seconds, 0 to 130 in 20.7 seconds, and the 1/4 mile in 13.2 seconds at 107 mph all for about the price of a BMW 7 series.

    The E55 AMG and the M5 are faster than the XJR, but the XJR is a bigger car. It competes more with the 7 series and S class.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I actually want to see a comparo between the CLS55 AMG, Quattroporte and XJR, as I think they line up nicely. All powerful/fast sultry sedans!

  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,365
    although fast enough is OK by me....Porsche standards are that the cars must be near the top in its class...

    so the new 4 door should be at least as fast as the E55....faster than the XJR....

    but of course, how fast is fast enough ? ;)
  • chris65amgchris65amg Posts: 372
    I think that the car will (in addition to blowing the doors off of the XJR and Quattroporte) will have to have very good driving dynamics. I mean, it is a Porsche.
  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    A Ferrari V-12 is coming for the Quattroporte.

    What chassis is the Panamera going to use? An Audi A6 chasis?
  • chris65amgchris65amg Posts: 372
    I think it's going to be a new one, because there was speculation of Bentley building the next Arnage off of the new Panamera platform. But I like the Arnage the way it is! :cry:
  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,365
    will probably have the new V8 or twin turbo V8 (or both) that is now in the Cayenne....

    The engine is sweet and nice...lots of power...even for such a heavy SUV....

    and gets relatively good gas mileage, compared to some sedans..
  • chris65amgchris65amg Posts: 372
    I've never driven a Cayenne, but I've heard that they're really good (for an SUV). When I first heard about the Cayenne I cried foul, but it hasn't been the sacrelige I thought it would be. I'm actually looking forward to the Panamera (not to mention the Cayman) Porsche seems to be expanding rapidly, and that's good. A Porsche is a Porsche. I'm glad that they're making forays into BMW Benz Audi territory.They've gotten a little soft (especially Benz)
  • hiker25hiker25 Posts: 3
    I also thought the suv was a bad idea...but heard it is doing well.

    I agree with chris that cayman and panamera are exciting possibilities for all of us.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I just can't wait to see this concept version that is rumored to be displayed at Frankfurt in Sept. If the Carrera GT is any indication the production vehicle will look very, very close to it.

  • How much chance does a Merc have against a porsche? You tell me! The SL65 AMG has over 500 hp and over 700 pounds of torque and is one of the few cars on eath that can make an Enzo , Pagani, Saleen S7, and Lamborghini Murcielago all cry Uncle! No it is not quite the athletic sprinter but Nobody can take Shaquille on 1 on 1 and thats kind of the case here. The CLS production values are going to be significantly higher than Porsche kind of like the quality of the Spurs to the Suns right now. Anyways nuff said.
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