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Luxury Performance Sedans



  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    You are correct. HP is a derived number. It is torque * rpm / 5252.

    But to quote:

    The Only Thing You Really Need to Know

    It is better to make torque at high rpm than at low rpm, because you can take advantage of *gearing*.
  • djocksdjocks Posts: 124
    I am going to lease a car THIS WEEK!

    I am leaning towards the new BMW 3-series with its $600 a month payment and initial down. I am also strongly considering the Acura RL. At this point I would also consider looking at anything. I am not interested in the Infiniti G35 but would consider anything else from their line.

    This is the luxury sedan comparo and discussion, so i am pleeding with all of you for anything I might be overlooking????

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Have you test driven these cars? They all inherently have their strengths and weaknesses. CR said the M35 was #1. Pick up the issue and see if you agree with the way they rated the car and why. If you're willing to spend $600/mo + initial down, what cars fits your financial criteria?

    I don't think you can go wrong with any of them, but imagine you just picked up your dream model. Envision yourself three years down the road and after the "gadget" effect has worn off. Can you see yourself excited with the car, or would you be wishing you really got the model you first wanted? Or, does that not matter?

    Test drive the 540i again and then try to answer the above questions.

    Good luck and keep us posted.
  • But Lexus has dropped the performance ball yet again.

    I'd get the 3, if an A4 or G35 is not your bag.

    Do you drive stick or no?

  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    So says Edmunds, on a pre-production model. But what does Edmunds know? They simultaniously rated the Lexus GS both the best and worst LPS out of Japan. I'm not going to just dismiss the IS350 until I drive it for myself.

    Otherwise, I'm not too impressed with the current C-class, but I think an S4 could be a great choice, as could an M35.
  • hihomikehihomike Posts: 111
    For around 600+tax and inceptions out of pocket, you can lease an M35 with journey package (air-conditioned seats, rear back-up camera, bose stereo system, adaptive front xenon headlights, etc.) for 39 months. The 36 month lease is very close to that. This is good only through the end of August. Infiniti Financial Services has the M35 at a 60%+ residual, which is very strong. It leases better than most of the comparable Luxury Performance Sedans.

    I would definitely check this car out!!!
  • I have been in the market for an LPS for about a month and have driven a lot of different cars. I used to drive a BMW 540i with a sport suspension. In the 4 years I had it I was always grateful for the qulity of the driving experience (Except for during Winter when the car could be almost worthless). Here are my impressions.

    The Lexus GS 300AWD is a better car than I ever expected. I drove it before and after a number of other LPS models and was impressed. I am only 5' 10" #165 and didn't feel cramped in the cabin. Lexus claims it is similar to a BMW. It isn't. It drives more like a Mercedes.

    I personally like BMWs. I have had two in the last 10 years. They drive better than the other cars I have tried, but are not very good in the snow. If I were to get a 3 or 5 series I would get the AWD. The 3 series AWD won't be out until October. The interior of the new 3 series is close to the interior of my old 5 series.

    I drove a bunch of Audis. The S-4 is fun, but a harsh ride. The A-6 is a nice compromise, but for some reason I could not get excited about it. The straight A-4 is comparable to the BMW 3 series in that they have expanded the interior. I liked the A-8 with the sport suspension. The adaptive suspension settings would be good for a road warrior, which I occasionally have to be. The A-8 in sport mode is a little silly considering how big the car is. It is not something that you want to throw around as you would with a BMW. I also don't really want to spend $75 for a car. The Audi V-8 is awesome.

    At the moment I have put a hold on my search. I am waiting to see what new diesels come to market next year. I really like the E320CDI, but want AWD. Such a car has been released in Germany, but they most likely won't be sending it to the US until the new diesel fuel regulations go into effect.Hopefully there will be some other options coming to the US next year. I have driven a lot of diesel BMW and Mercedes in Germany while over there on business. It is great to drive fast and get 35 mpg.

    If I were to purchase today I would get the RL. It is a great value at about $45-46. My reservation is that you know and feel like you are driving a Honda. The M-35 AWD was a good car, but not my cup of tea.

    It has been fun driving all these cars. Good luck with your choice. You really won't go wrong with the cars you are looking at.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I drove a 2005 A4 2.0TDI while in Italy over the summer. I was grateful for every extra mpg I could get, considering it was costing me $130 for every tank of gas! The car was great, I was getting over 30mpg while averaging 90-100mph on the Autostrada. The car was a tip-tronic with paddleshifters on the steering wheel. The only problem with a turbo diesel is shifting for yourself is no fun when the car is in the red at 5,000 rpm.
  • Aren't ALL of the LPS cars, even the ones excluded from this forum, available with REAL WOOD (some, like the M can be had with REAL ALUMINUM, etc.)?

    If the Acura or Audi or Infiniti or BMW, etc, has "wood" trim it IS wood, no exceptions, correct?

    We may have individual preferences and perceptions "this looks like [fill in the blank]: wood or plastic or contact paper or stone or carbon fiber or whatever."

    At the end of the day, apparently, the only way to make "us" all happy is for the manufacturers to offer more choices (completely plausible with "mass customization") -- then I can get matte or gloss wood in walnut or birch or rosewood or whatever my pea pickin' heart (and wallet) desires.

    Hey, now there's another LPS differentiation idea: even greater customization through the magic of computerized configurators for the build out of cars. Or, if it is possible, allowing a built and on the lot car to be so tailored prior to delivery with wood options, some electronic options and perhaps tire/wheel combos that can be offered at "point of delivery."

    For the record, I don't care for BMW's glossy black wood -- it is depressing, like burnt toast -- but that's just me.

    LPS cars, as they get more and more alike in feature and function will need to differentiate themselves even more than they do today -- mass customization, greater and greater choices of "finish" and personal preference options can make this a reality.

    BTW, who's with me? If you pay $128,000 for a new Audi, don't you think you have the right to demand a stick shift?

    I didn't think so. Hope springs eternal. :shades:
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I totally agree. One of the things I like about Jaguar is that they offer like 15 different wheel styles for the XKR. There's nothing necessarily wrong with the stockers, but if you dont like them, there's plenty of other wheels to choose from. One of the things I hate most about the SC430 is those horrendous wheels, and Lexus has no other choices. So if you buy an SC, you have to figure in a $2000 check to BBS. These....things.. just cannot be made attractive, no matter how many cheesy covers Lexus comes out with.

  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Posts: 541
    If I were to purchase today I would get the RL. It is a great value at about $45-46. My reservation is that you know and feel like you are driving a Honda.

    Actually the RL at $45-46 is a poor deal :confuse: With year end close outs the RL is going for $42-43 in many places. :shades:
  • andre1andre1 Posts: 85
    Is this forum only for comparing new LPS vehicles? I wonder why nobody ever factors in used cars in their comparison driving experiences on this forum. For example, I just purchased a low-mileage, excellent condition 2000 BMW M5 with a 4 year warranty for less than $40,000 :) . Now, all of these cars on this forum are great cars, but none of them compare to one of the greatest sedans ever made, the E39 M5. If looking for newer than a 2000, you can get a used 2002 M5 (with CPO warranty to 2008) for less than any of these over $50K cars. I, for one, always try to use depreciation in my favor by getting a LPS that is 2 or 3 years old with low miles and extended warranty (I get a different car every 2 - 3 years). It does take more research to find a good used car, but when I can get an original $75,000 M5 used for less than the cost of a new minivan, I'd say that's a much better way to go than getting any of these LPS cars new.
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    I would agree with you about those wheels...Seems strange for Lexus with all that design talent.

    One of the things I don't like about the RL is...everything is basically included...that's it's your fully loaded LPS regardless of the options you don't need. But if MSU79GT82 is correct about buying a new 2005 for $42,000, then hello, bring on all the options, and add in the sport Michelins, wood steering wheel, shift knob, and back-up sensors too!

    Also I would enjoy hearing from any real "Car guy", who would come forward and totally bloviate about the RL to the extreme that several BMW owners have in the past about their 545i's!! :P
  • It seems to me that BMW offers the most choices, currently, of all the LPS cars -- and I am, for obvious reasons HERE, excluding the Jaguar. Of course, every little doo dad on a BMW is optional and that is somewhat annoying.

    No way to get a built in garage door opener on my wife's new $47K BMW without popping yet another $425. We just use the tiny transmitter that came with the garage door openers when we built the house -- it needs a new battery about every 2 years, so its no real inconvenience.
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Posts: 541
    But if MSU79GT82 is correct about buying a new 2005 for $42,000, then hello, bring on all the options, and add in the sport Michelins, wood steering wheel, shift knob, and back-up sensors too!

    Well I haven't bought yet, but I was offered mid $43 back in May. Also I belong to another "dedicated" RL Forum that has a sticky regarding prices paid. Its fascinating to go through that multi-page thread that began last October and watch the prices drop :surprise: The most recent reports are in the $42s (with one in the $41s). Of course there are also reports here in Edmunds for prices paid in the $42-43 range.

    Early reports are that the '06 will not have any significant changes to the standared car, but there will be a Tech Package option (with run flats, laser cruise, lane departure warning). My guess is no more that $2000 based on what these options cost at Lexus and Infiniti.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I agree. Thats why I'm currently on my third lightly used Jaguar convertible. My '00 R would've cost almost $90 grand. I got it for a little more than half that. With Jaguar depreciation, you'd have to basically be an idiot to buy one new. Other cars though, it doesnt quite work that way. There are no bargains available for used SL500s, for example.

    I dont think I'd want an SL from '03 anyway. Strange times when a Jaguar is way more reliable than a Mercedes.
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    Knew you were following the prices in another forum. It would be a very tough decision to buy a 2006 if they are trying to get MSRP which would most likely be near last year's and in addition, as I recall, the tech Package is an add-on option in 2006 isn't it.
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    Can I make a suggestion and ask that participants in this forum take a moment and add some information to their Forum Profile-- it's helpful in understanding people's perspectives to know, for example, what part of the country (or world) they live in, and what kind of car(s) they have chosen to own themselves. In some cases, I have noticed from postings that people have purchased new cars since they wrote their Profile, so it needs to be updated (yes, this means you Mark!).

    Adding information to your Profile is very easy and doesn't have any real impact on your privacy. Just click on any of the links at the top or right side of the page that mention Profile, Preferences, or My Account, and follow the directions.

    Of course, to read any poster's Profile info, you can just click on the blue underlined name in the title line of any post. I find it adds to my enjoyment of the forum to know even just a little bit about the folks with whom we share our opinions and feelings.
  • bw45sportbw45sport Posts: 151
    There are no bargains available for used SL500s, for example

    Don't be too sure. I have a beautiful Obsidian Black SL with ash interior that is ready for a new home. Truly a stunning automobile that rides nicer than most luxury sedans while handling like a dream. It can be yours for a very reasonable price.

    I dont think I'd want an SL from '03 anyway. Strange times when a Jaguar is way more reliable than a Mercedes.

    Oops, did I mention that it's an '03? LOL

    '04's and '05's are would be hard for them to get much worse.
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    If you are really serious about selling this nice car at a reasonable price I'm chuckling over your last 2 lines and in addition it would be my guess that the host will descend on you like white on rice (either that or drop you like a bad habit) after one more post! LOL! Good Luck anyway! :D
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Heh. I'm not ready to dump the XKR just yet. I've driven the SL and I do like it, but it just doesnt call to me like the Maserati coupe cambiocorsa does. I also want to see what Jaguar is going to do with the '07 XK. The current XJ8 is definitely the best Jaguar sedan.. if not ever, at least in a really long time. If only they could've worked the same magic with the exterior and interior styling as they did with the new platform, I think it really could've been a contender. The new Ian Callum styled XK fixes the issues that Jaguar was too timid on with the XJ. That, and the aluminum body weighs hundreds of pounds less than the porker SL.

    By the way, once apon a time, SL stood for "sport light". At 4,065lbs. I think maybe its time for a name change.
  • bw45sportbw45sport Posts: 151
    I forgot to mention one thing about the SL. If anyone is interested in seeing it, I'll arrange a time for you to visit it at the service bay at Mercedes-Benz of Omaha, a Lithia Company. You may think the car beautiful on the ground, but you'd be amazed at its beauty in the place its most commonly displayed, 6 feet up on a lift.

    :) Drive it like you own it. Er, I mean watch it being serviced like you own it.
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    A very funny is ...if you are not the owner...(What a sport!) :)
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    $35k sports sedans

    BMW 330i finishes 1st with 213 points, edging out the IS350 with 212 points. 3rd place with 203 points, Infiniti G35, then Acura TL, Audi A4, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60R and Saab 9-2.

    The IS350 smoked the others in acceleration, 0-60 in 5.1, next best being the TL and G35 at 5.9 sec.

    I found the details on CL.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Check out the interior gallery, its the best Jag interior since the Ford buyout, perhaps the best ever.
  • ckelly14ckelly14 Posts: 105
    Very nice. Can you say Aston Martin? Looks great. I'll be interested to know what the pricing will be.
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    It is indeed a great looking interior. I also saw some pictures of the exterior and am impressed with the direct shot of the cars profile and the direct shot of the rear. One thing I did notice about the nose which includes the front bumper is a variation in the it just the photo or intentional? The rest of the car is high gloss but the nose seems to be dulled down.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I think it may have been the photo, I didnt notice anything like that.
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    after looking very carefully once again at the photo, I think it is the lighting...I'll try to post it...have never posted a photo before.
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    I'll have to try another time with the instuctions on how to post a the meantime I believe it is OK to send this URL of the photo:
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