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Comments
Oh c'mom.
Luck? Did you say luck?
BMW earned it fair and square! I am willing to make a bet with you that the 5 series will trounce the E class for many years to come.
Despite that I like the idea of owning a diesel MB E wagon as our future family hauler.(but first MB has to re-skin and re-engineer the current E model in 2009)
To each their own but if BMW offered the 550 touring or even a 330 touring that car would be in my garage right now.
I find it quite pathetic that BMW only offers here underpowered 325xi and 530xi tourings. Also what miffs me is the fact that your are forced to buy AWD. I would prefer a RWD 5 series Touring.
Yep.
Elsewhere, Europe comes to mind, the Germans seem to be closer to each other than here in NA.
Well actually I think the A6 runs the show in Europe in terms of sales.
M
BMW earned it fair and square! I am willing to make a bet with you that the 5 series will trounce the E class for many years to come.
Yeah I said luck. The 5-Series really came to the market the right year, right after the E and before the Japanese onslaught on the segment. Plus the E had to deal with the CLS to some degree so yeah I say luck, not that the 5 isn't a great car dewey. I just meant that it traditionally doesn't outsell the E-Class. That comment was really for my friend who loves to tout 5-Series sales all the time.
Though I'll take you up on that bet. No way Mercedes is going to give up the sales crown that easy, though I'll be more confident after I see the facelifted model.
M
Should prove interesting.
I read a blurb (as opposed to blog) by the "editors" of Autospies.com -- they seem quite high on Audis over BMW's for this "15 minutes of fame."
Makes me wonder why Audi has fought to so hard with Acura for last place for the A6 vs the RL.
In this regard, however, I think the RL "won" and the A6 actually finished up in next to last place.
What really seemed remarkable was that Audis seem to be more expensive in Germany than here in the US and they had a very strong year "over there" despite what appears to be a price disadvantage.
Frankly, I'd be plenty pleased with a 530xi stick shift or with my current A6 3.2 automatic -- in an even world, the Bimmer would probably win "today."
Based on the configurator, the A6 above a certain engine size only comes with the tiptronic. Wow, I thought the Germans resisted automatics even more than I.
Live and learn.
The next gen of ALL of these LPS cars brings to my mind "you ain't seen nuttin' yet."
It's a bet. A gentlemen's bet. No money or duels involved.
Topic: Telematics
According to Telematics Research Group (TRG), BMW and
Mercedes-Benz offer the most advanced technology features in their vehicles.
Not surprisingly, the TRG ratings show that vehicle manufacturers that tend to sell luxury vehicles are including more safety and entertainment features than economy car maker Hyundai, which ranked last.
However, Lincoln, and Volvo's appearance along with Ford at the bottom was a bit of a surprise. Dodge and Toyota, and Chevy, which have vehicles at a wide variety of price ranges all were in the middle of the pack
link title
Only a small portion of the graph has to do with "driver assist", by which I am assuming they mean safety devices. I also assume that "telematics" is geek-speak for on-star and similar communications, as Cadillac and Chevy score very well. The weighting logic in the graph is also somewhat fuzzy.
TRG Graph
Taking only "Driver assist", it appears that BMW, Infiniti, MB, and then Lexus are in descending order.
Edit: Come to think of it, "Driver assist" could also include some non-safety items as push-button start and memory seats. I'd rather see a graph showing weighting of relative automotive technology.
Maybe you are not interested by MB or just not considering them. I respect your view, naturally. Congrats for your Cayenne. not a failed car.
I can't believe however you don't know the E350/500 Estate. Does it mean they are not imported in N/A either?
http://www2.mercedes-benz.co.uk/content/unitedkingdom/mpc/mpc_unitedkingdom_webs- ite/en/home_mpc/passenger_cars/home/products/new_cars/e-class_estate.html
this is just the Estate version of the E-class. If I were to buy a E class, I would only consider its estate version. the rear boot space is cavernous. the V8 5 Liter, altough not the most up to date (5,4 L should follow soon I guess) would still be my priority choice.
If Estates are not imported to the US, or only with weak Engines, this is a very big mistakes the germans do IMHO. This is the key differentiator with the japanese which estate offer is really poor/inexistant in the LPS/ELLPS segment (is the subaru Legacy 3.0 estate imported in the US? this would be the ONLY japanese contender. Pls correct me if one has further information)
According to the MB-USA web site, the following Wagons are available:
E350 Wagon (RWD): $53,075 (base MSRP)
E350 Wagon (AWD): $55,575 (base MSRP) -- Called the E350 4Matic Wagon
E500 Wagon (AWD): $64,075 (base MSRP) -- Called the E500 4Matic Wagon
Best Regards,
Shipo
I don't know what Acura is to do. 50K is too much for the RL to a lot of people I guess. I suspect that come re-design time there will be a new RWD platform that will support both the TL and RL come 2009-10.
Yes Audi's status is withing a hair of MB/BMW to most in Europe and even higher according to some. You see they take the whole racing thing a lot more seriously than we do it seems. Audi has become the darling of the European, especially German auto industry due to their historic racing victories over the last 5-6 years, so they tell me on other boards.
M
"Audi sold more than 226,700 vehicles worldwide in the first quarter – 16 percent more than last year (194,970)*. More than 93,600 vehicles were sold in March, an increase of around 10 percent on the same month of last year (85,389). These figures represent the best March and the best first quarter in the company’s history.
Among the models with the highest growth rates worldwide are the Audi A3 (up 22 percent to approximately 65,400 vehicles), the Audi A6 (up 49 percent to 59,500 vehicles) and the Audi A8 (up 29 percent to 6,100 units). Sales of the Audi A4 increased by around 3 percent to 82,300 vehicles. 6,400 A4 Cabriolet models were sold, an increase of 6 percent. Around 3,300 Audi Q7 models were handed over to customers in the first three weeks following its launch in Central Europe.
In some of [our fastest growing] markets we are now selling as many models in a single quarter as we did a few years ago in an entire year. And the potential of our brand is far from being exhausted.”
Add this to the statements this morning that 40% of real estate transactions (at the personal level) last year were for SECOND houses and we see a picture of some substantial affluence.
The LPS market (if you're selling) would appear to be the place to be.
Jus' livin' the dream, eh? :shades:
I'm curious as to their definition of "telematics" and what devices this category includes. Looking at their chart, both Audi and Infiniti show no entries (blue bar) for "telematics" :confuse:
Digital Entertainment and Head Unit I have enough of that technology in my basement, I dont need it in my car.
Telematics Useless, I memorize my maps before driving off.
Driver Assist I learned driving when I was 16, I dont need an electronic parent to assist me.
Phone no problems using my current cell phone in my car or outside my car.
IMO all the above listed TRG items reduces whatever enjoyment there is in driving. Drivetrain and chassis technologies are the only innovations that I find worthy and as you had correctly pointed such technologies are not included in the TRG Index.
Now BMW and Mercedes-Benz will be suing each other for naming infringement!
Even though I am an Audi fan, I was very impressed with the E350 4Matic sedan the other day. I think that the E sedan is better than the A6 sedan, but the A6 Avant is by far the coolest wagon in its class.
Just look at the rear lights!
:shades:
M
I say (and applaud) "to each his/her own." Personally I have found convenience and safety in several of the items you disdain. Still, to each. . . .
I have one issue (and not specifically with you), however.
I am convinced that either some further evolution in technology OR the virtual mandatory adoption of current technology with respect to hand and eyes free telephoning in a car looms large on our collective horizon.
In the big town or small city of Cincinnati, if that better characterizes our situation here in Ohio, I find myself from time to time in s-l-o-w moving traffic. To pass the time, I will count the number of Mercedes that are 4Matics, the number of people with their windows DOWN and the number of people out of "the next 25 cars" that are using a cell phone and obviously doing so using their hand and arm (leaving them one hand and arm to control a car that is ever more likely to have a digital entertainment and control head unit, telematics and navigation system and, like my 2005 Audi A6, 82! instruments and controls under the driver's direct line of control and in some way vying for the driver's attention or, at the very least monitoring.)
Phones held by hand will be, I predict, a casualty of our "progress." I want to be able to use my cell phone when I want. But I also want everyone who uses their phones to use them without hands and via voice command ONLY. My reasons are both personal and sociological. I want the use of my phone (personal) and I want "all of us" to be as safe as can be (optimally, NOT maximally).
If we don't adopt and embrace technology advancements, I suspect, they will be imposed on us.
I helped a friend load up his two children (ages 3 and 1) into the car seats in the back seat of his 2005 vehicle. The original astronauts must've had less complicated mechanisms.
At age 54, I grew up in a time when cars did not have seat belts and there were very few car seats but lots of Brittany Spears seats if you get my drift (and If my spelling is correct.) By the time my parents got the first brand new car I can remember, a 1963 Chrysler Newport, the "dealer installed" lap belts were "thrown in" to help close the deal.
My father NEVER used them. Six years later in that car, he hit a patch of ice, made love to a 100 year old tree and was catapulted through the windshield (which cut him severely but did NOT kill him.)
He still didn't wear his seat belt afterwards.
Now, in OHIO at least, it is illegal to drive without one. At first blush, I resent being told I must wear one, even though I wouldn't back out of the garage without one on; then, I think it is a good idea especially if it might reduce my insurance premiums even 1%, then I get all altruistic and think it is "for the greater good."
I also am happy that yelling "fire" in a crowded dark theater is not considered "free speech."
All this tech, often initially, seems to be frivolous or novel -- I think these cars have such primitive tech (even the LPS cars with all the option boxes checked) and could not even imagine what it would be like to NOT have voice activated sat nav (for I do consider it a convenience AND safety feature -- long after the "cool" toy effect has passed.)
It has done no good, but we have a company policy that says if you are "on the clock" and driving a car, you must PARK before using your cell phone or have hand and eyes free capabilities.
We also have a weapons policy. My understanding is you must tell [your employer] what weapons you have. I always thought a knife like Crocodile Dundee uses would be cool to carry, but haven't been able to locate one.
Where was I?
Oh yea -- this technology is primitive, but it is a great first step and vital to protecting some of our freedoms and using the Sociological Imagination, a good thing for society.
I wouldn't leave home without it.
At this time, I support your desire to disdain and avoid it -- but not insofar as your use of your cell phone while driving on the public streets, unless you are fully hand and eyes free (which essentially means voice activation or mind melding with the tech!)
Drive it like you live!
:shades:
and the gas price is still less than half of Europe so it is good to take advantage of it.
I understand the image you have. I also remember when I was 13 in 1985, I spent a month in the US to learn the Language. My welcoming family had a Station Wagon (Dont remember, think Chevrolet Impala). this was a real barge with room inside. The handling? well, don't remember a thing. it seems driving at that time was like watching a movie in slow mode, so such question might have been irrelevant.
Got 3 wagons. I could do so many things with them that i will choose them over Sedan version. the problem of SUV is that to get a good handling (say closer to that of a sedan) the suspension is stiffened. went on a X5 with sport susp. don't like the hard ride. makes my 7 feel like a buick in comparison.
maybe the Cay has a good compromise. goodbye LPS!
I respect both your views despite the fact that I completely disagree with them.
Seat belts and hands free devices become neccessities only out of government legislation. I think it is tragic when luxury becomes necessity due to bureaucratic interventions. I have nothing against seat belts and hands free devices, but it should be the right of each individual to choose whether he wants to use his seat belts or his cell phone in a car.
Choice is a wonderful thing and governments have no business in taking that away from us.
Just embrace the tech for the good things it can bring rather than force all of us to do without.
Hands and Eyes Free phoning is better than it becoming illegal.
What will happen is the government will impose even more onerous and restrictive crap on us. Lets use bluetooth before we're forced into something we find far far more big brotherish.
The Genie IS out of the bottle.
I say live it, or live with it!
And, I also say Drive it like you [would like] to live.
Well, I don't actually say that much, but you get my drift.
I see my insurance premiums on the rise or some other social engineering costs being imposed on us if we refuse to recognize -- just as an example -- the "imposition" on other drivers on the public highways of one handed, one eyed (since the other one is on the phone screen) cell phoning.
Me, I just say: "Call Home" and 98% of the time the darn thing just dials away and I get my own damn voice mail.
What a world, what a world.
Can't have it any other way, even if I wanted to.
New tech forever! Old tech never! Now that's a phrase I can live with -- besides, I have only myself to blame if the choice is denied me.
And BTW seat belts and hands free devices ARE for the greater good -- government or no -- it does irk me that I have to be told I must wear a seatbelt, particularly since I feel virtually naked without one and wouldn't dream of being in a car without one on -- but I understand some folks would drive without them otherwise which would certainly raise the death toll and my insurance premiums.
I don't mind if you want to kill yourself, but please don't raise my insurance rates for "unbuckled drivers" for pity's sake -- so, what the heck, I tolerate a stupid law (stupid since it is like legislating the widely accepted concept of "self preservation.")
Asta la pizza baby! :shades:
P.S. you said "but it should be the right of each individual to choose whether he wants to use his seat belts or his cell phone in a car." To that I say, OK don't fasten and do call -- just do it while you're driving on private property, preferably your own private property not OUR public streets, I simply cannot afford another TAX to cover "unbelted" or "cell phone distracted" drivers.
My wallet will appreciate it. :surprise:
When you are engaged in a hand-held cell phone conversation, there is no way you can devote your undivided attention to where it's supposed to be.
Whether its alcohol or hand-held cell phones, drivers have a right to expect that other drivers will act responsibly and not be a menace out there. You get behind a wheel, there's things you shouldn't do.
You want to kill yourself. Be my guest. Just don't take me with you!
I see these cell-phone users driving too slow, swerving in and out of lanes,etc;
If people are too selfish and irresponsible to drive a car properly, then I support legislation vigorously enforced with heavy penalties to protect the rest of us.
When adults can't seem to act like adults, it's time for a change.
And while I'm at it, let's also legislate away those ridiculous belly putters.
If you can't putt with a standard length putter, you shouldn't be out there.
Billy Mayfair, are you listening?
Freedom of speech does not endanger you or cost anyone anything. Rear-ending someone because you are fiddling with a phone obviously does.
Thanks.
There is a huge impact on society for people that can't or won't take responsibility for their actions. Those that are ejected from a car and are killed or handicapped for life because they weren't strapped in are likely to collect from society for possibly decades, and their families may need help, too.
So, while I don't agree with all of the things, and because I am risk adverse, I wear my seatbelt, bought a car with a handsfree phone capability built-in, and believe in dedicated tires for each season because it improves my odds.
I have never owned a BMW, but if you are going to go with a German car it would be my only choice other than Porsche (which I do own). The Audi is nice, but not very exciting to drive and Mercedes quality seems to be all over the map. My marketing director regrets having traded her old E300 Turbodiesel for the new E320 CDI. Engine is great, rest of the car not so.
Patronizing answer : The difference in safety will more be in the driving than in the car
The answer you expect : Need to get NHSTA /EURO NCAP crash test results. I guess the Q7 won't perform badly in passive safety. Active safety, I would rather choose A6/E/5 with more nimble handling and better acceleration if one same engine is chosen.
Did you drive those models? how did you feel them?
A6 : You will get more exclusivity than E or 5. especially if you choose the wagon.
I also thought he was settled on a new A6 Sline or perhaps BMW 525.
And, I'm not sure I even care how young or old a participant is -- so I say join in gregisgod13.
Listening to a business bloc of shows this morning: Gasoline in the US this summer $4.00/gallon!
Yikes.
Makes me wonder if the Germans and Japanese have considered displacement on demand for their LPS cars with V8's to mitigate some folks concerns and sell more cars?
Also, how is it, that for years Audi slapped turbo's on their cars 4, 6 and even 8 cylinder models and BMW poo-pooed this technology and now BMW is bringing out the 3.0L i6 @ 306 HP derived by a turbocharger strapped on?
My last Audi had a 2.7T engine in it that I did NOT chip or modify (it really was plenty torquey without it, even in an allroad -- but with the 6speed), it would appear that the i6 Bimmer motor will, or should, end up in the 5's -- hmmm 6 cylinders, 306 HP and low down torque (just like Audi had been doing for years with some disdain from BMW and Bimmerfiles) -- wow, sign me up.
Or, why not put the excellent bi-turbo kit on the current Audi 3.2 engine? Well, for one thing, it would probably easily blow by 300HP and, more importantly, have weapons grade torque from about 1800 rpm and, therefore, would show the normally aspirated A6 4.2 its tail pipes without even breaking a sweat.
How come is it?
:confuse:
I have a feeling that Audi is going to need a "3.2T" motor pretty soon, or the rest of the class are going to leave the A4 and A6 in the dust.
Choice is a wonderful thing and governments have no business in taking that away from us.
I not only disagree with your point, but also regard it as stupid (i.e. not respecting it).
Sure you have your choice. Perfectly fine if your drive with both hands off, as long as your are on your own property.
However, on public roads, driving withour seat belt or with one hand on cellphone, you are negatively affecting other people's choice to live.
Choice is a wonderful thing, don't make choices for other people, especially dangerous ones.
Drive them all and pick whichever you enjoy the most...
Based on your previous arguments on road safety I think there should be immediate legislation to ban the following car from our roads:
The S6 with a V10 Lambo based engine
link title
Think about it?
Combine the testosterone and the ego(obsession to prove themselves) of many S6 owners with the potency of an S6 and you have nothing less than a weapon of mass detruction.
A ban on the S6 can be fully justified by the arguments previously posted about cell phones:
Raised insurance rates
Higher probability of injury and death for other drivers
Higer property taxes to fix damaged roads
Choice of owning a S6 is a danger to others
When discussing a ban on cell phones or S6 Audis we should first focus on the real reasons for accidents:
Lack of mindfulness(Inattention)
Negligence
Fatigue
Testosterone
Audi is leaning towards putting turbochargers in RS-cars only. They are a wonderful technology that Audi pioneered in the petrol luxury industry with the A6 2.7T and S4, and now they will be even more wonderful in the 550hp RS6!
Just wait for the R8... it's going to blow the entire perception of Audi away, all the while blowing BMW's mind!
Go to Borders to get info on the R8. It looks almost identical to the LeMans concept of 2003, and it was caught with almost no camouflage by Autoweek.
Based on your previous arguments on road safety I think there should be an immediate legislation to ban on the S6 Audi with its V10 based Lambo engine:
link title
Think about it?
Combine the testosterone and the ego of many S6 owners with the potency of an S6 and you have nothing less than a weapon of mass detruction.
A ban on the S6 can be fully justified by the arguments previously posted about cell phones:
Raised insurance rates
Higher probability of injury and death on our roads
Higer taxes to fix damaged roads
Choice of owning a S6 is a danger to others and the drivers themselves. Freedom needs to be restricted for the safety of society.
When discussing a ban on cell phones or S6 Audis we should first focus on the real reasons for accidents:
Lack of mindfulness(Inattention)
Negligence
Fatigue
Testosterone
In fact there is no study that shows conclusively that cell phones causes accidents. Nor is there any study that shows that V10 cars increases the likelihood of accidents. :P
If anybody wishes to discuss this further then I suggest that we ask our host to set up a forum in the automotive issues area.
Because in American $, the price will NOT be $105,000!
Expect it to be $70K, or around that number, when it hits here.
:shades:
When I see hand-held cell phone users driving too slow and weaving in and out of lanes, that's all the "data" I need and it tells me these folks are not paying attention with potentially deadly consequences for you, me and our families.
You seem to be in a minority of one on this issue!
But deliveries of BMW's Mini brand beat sales of Daimler's Smart minicar, keeping BMW group sales including luxury marque Rolls-Royce ahead of those at Mercedes Car Group, which includes the Mercedes-Benz, Smart and Maybach limousine nameplates.
link title
You are welcome to go to the Automotive News & Views board and create any automotive subject you'd like to discuss.