is the mercedes benz slk 350 to girly looking for a 16 year ol kid. i looked at it several times. its the fastest and most fun to drive but i think it might look like a girls car like a beetle in the scense u imagine a girl driving it.
I dont think the SLK 350 is a "girly" car. The old SLK 320 definitely was, but the new one is a lot more agressive looking, and an otherwise vastly superior car. If you like the SLK, have you considered a Boxster?
I probably should bite my tongue, but what the hell, I'll give you a note I think you should write to your Dad.
Dear Dad,
Thanks. It's been fun fantasizing as a 15 year old what $50,000+ car I can get when I turn 16 in a couple of months. I've considered just about every LPS (luxury performance sedan, in case you don't spend an hour a day on Edmunds like I do). Now I'm asking my new internet buddies what they think of the SLK350. "Lexusguy" suggested I consider the Boxster (I'm sure he meant "S" model).
But as much fun as this has been, what the hell are you thinking? I'm 15. I'm about as mature as a 15 year old can be, but I'm 15. I hope to have another good 70+ years ahead of me. As long as I don't wrap myself around a tree.
So Dad, rather than sticking that silver spoon so far down my throat as to cause me to choke, maybe you should help me get a new car that still leaves me some room to aspire to something better that I could actually earn myself. And maybe you should take that extra $20,000 or $30,000 and set it aside for grad school. Or, if that's already covered, a low interest loan when I start my own business.
Again, Dad, thanks for the thought. But even the very best new car depreciates. Helping me understand the value of self achievement will last a lifetime. And nothing would give me more pleasure than buying YOU an LPS in 10-20 years to show you my appreciation. Sure beats having a son waiting for their inheritance check, doesn't it?
i am not 13. 13 is just my number for things. i am 15 and im getting my car in june. so i cnt decide which to get. i like the fx and x5 alot to. my linup goes. 5 series first, then a6, then fx, then x5. my dad said i can get either one of those. but i dont know which one to choose?
Just cry all days and nights and your Daddy will buy you a Bentley GT.
Hey, while we may question Greg's parents priorities, let us at least give Greg some credit for coming here to ask for advice. We can't give his dad any direct advice (and I'm sure his dad's friends/partners are doing this already).
Greg: I agree with others here that there are better ways to spend your dad's money and teach some life lessons. However, it is your choice (and your dad's money). All we hope is that you make a wise choice and then not do something foolish if you end up with a potent vehicle.
We are not going to allow this discussion to be turned into a referendum on how a parent and a 13-15-16 year old should interact. Further posts of that nature will be removed.
We are here to talk about the cars and we need to stick to that.
I'm not sure that we are not having our legs pulled, but whatever the case, if you don't want to engage in the barebones facts of the conversation provoked by this apparent child, don't. Either way is fine, but don't bother telling him or his father how they should run their lives. That's not what we're here for.
We also aren't here to feed trolls. Think about it.
I fail to see the connection between driving an S6 alertly and using a hand-held cell-phone when driving any vehicle.
Maybe you should inform the insurance companies about how alert S6 drivers are. Makes you wonder why insurance companies charge higher premiums for sportier cars?
Which brings me to my last and final post at Edmunds for at least a few years (whenever I buy a new car for myself or my wife).
Yesterday afternoon I got the sweetest of sweet deals on a BMW 530xi Touring. Not exactly what I wanted in terms of HP, but it was the best family compromise I could find (no fan of SUVs or Minivans).
Now I'm going to pursue another escapist endeavor other than Edmunds. This week I am going to be looking at consumer electronics forums to gather more info on LCD/Plasma TVs( after my experience here I vow never ever to reveal my cell phone libertarian views in those forums) :sick:
I think the bmw with streiht shift with a low hp engine (not the biggest engine)would be a more male looking worthwhile car to enter manhood in....I think you may get the manual transmission out of your system or then possibly become a streight shift advocate for the next twenty years....The bmw is a well balanced car---the streight shift would make the engine work for it`s money--and there would be plenty to aspire for as life develops...I live an a sharp curve in N. C and I have helped many people out of their cars after they have misjudged the curve..A good number of the people were young men going to the camps just up the road----so you be extra careful as I don`t want to have to help you out of your new car.. Incidentally they have streightened the curve out by blasting the huge rock so there haven`t been any wrecks lately Tony
Another reason (or reasons) that the attractiveness of subvented leasing continues to make sense.
A $47,000 BMW @ 36 months/45K miles, with a sec deposit, $250 cap cost reduction, and first month's payment (with full maintenance) is $581 (including tax.)
Buy gas, insurance and two replacement sets of plates and probably one set of tires and walk away Renee.
Total cost for the term (not including gas and insurance) ~ $22,000.
At the end of the lease IF the residual is 50% the sell price of the car after it has been CPO's would be $25,000.
Warranty would be extended but NOT maint. If 0% financing were offered it would be $694 per month for anthoer 36 months NOT including some maint costs which at a run rate of 1,250 miles per month would mean what for a car going from 45,000 to 90,000 miles on the clock.
Did anyone read this article about Edmund's experience with the used 530i? link title
It is very interesting that it confirmed my exact thoughts back when I decided to get my first previously enjoyed LPS.
They had over $2k in repairs in two years.... If they had bought it Certified, they would have had $0. Maybe Edmunds should consider that in their next long-term test, since people shopping for pre-owned cars often like to have that warranty.
your forgetting one major point in your analysis though, Mark. In the lease scenario, you have nothing after 3 years. In the buy scenario, you have something of worth that you can sell or continue to drive with $0 payments.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Ok greg, you're all over the place here. First it was the Q7, then a SLK350, now a 330i? You really need to get a handle on what kind of vehicle you want (SUV, roadster, sedan, coupe, etc) then you should look at the best cars in that class and determine what you want. This car is for YOU remember? Not us.
Does anyone else find it odd that someone would ask a bunch of people on an internet forum that they've never met to help them make ANY decisions regarding their personal lives? Let alone buying a car. Much as I like this forum and respect the people that post here it certainly never occurred to me to ask what everyone thought before I traded in my 545 for the Cayenne. I mean, generally speaking we're all at least fairly biased to the brands we like so it stands to reason that we'd recommend those brands. Seems to me Greg's putting the cart before the horse anyway. First, decide what you need and want in a car (since you already know your budget). Second, go drive all of the cars that you think meet those needs. Third, come here after your decision so we can all bash on it! Just kidding. Seriously though, as lexusguy said, the car is for you Greg, not us. I'm sure after driving a few cars the choice will become more clear.
I wanted an LPS but I did not lease a new one for a few reasons: 1- Being an IT contractor, sometime my business takes me to the USA for months at time. Then, I would need to bring my car with me but this is not legal for vehicle leased in Canada. 2- There are no tax advantages what so ever to lease vs buy a vehicle in Canada. So given the more restricted usage conditions of a leased vehicle, buying makes more sense. 3- The price of a new 5 or GS was about CAD +75K. This is a lot of cash.
I agree that the BMW repair costs in the article could have been covered by an extended warranty (I actually bought EW with my GS), but the potential headaches(non monetary costs) in figuring out car problems and getting them fixed by dealers did not make sense to me. It has been three beautiful trouble free years (60K miles)with my GS.
I don`t think that would be the conclusion, but a spot to start...As others have said --this is for you--and you have some time to make a decision...As you haven`t had your own car before -I personally think it appropriate to get other peoples feed back, and either take their advice or not, sort of depending what you gut tells you....I don`t think the Mercedes is a girl`s car, but I do think a BMW has a large following , and is a well balanced car...As you haven`t had alot of experience maybe a heavier car like the 5 would be safer for you, but still have a great beginning experience...For you yourself, don`t even think of the powerful engine version...You will need more experience...My personal opinion is what I previously said....This is just a starting point, and I wish I had had the good fortune to have had this problem early in life...I enjoy just thinking about this at this point in life....Tony ps remember the streight shift with the 325 or smallest powered 5..This is a good time to learn, so you will then be able to make a more informed decision the next time
"As you haven`t had alot of experience maybe a heavier car like the 5 would be safer for you..."
Yes, the 5-Series is technically a heavier car, however, the difference between a 530i and a 330i is a whopping 44 pounds (in Automatic trim, per Greg's requirements). That's not exactly a huge difference if you ask me. ;-)
To me at least, the larger issue is WHY the weight difference is so small. The answer lies in the fact that the 5er uses significantly more aluminium in both the body structure and in the sheet metal. Like for like, any given little crunch or ding will cost a whole lot more to fix on the 5er, especially given that many shops have yet to get fully up to speed when it comes to making repairs on aluminum cars.
Interesting article, but it makes some generalizations that are not necessarily correct. For example, "I am very convinced that the time to increase displacement will never come back because increasing displacement automatically increases fuel consumption."
Thats just not true, a senior VP of powertrain development should know better. In '98, the GS400 had a 4.0L V8 and was rated 17/23. The 4.3L version in the '01 runs cleaner, and gets better EPA rated fuel economy, 18/24.
The IS300's straight six was rated just 18/23. The IS350's state-of-the-art motor makes 91 more horses, while fuel economy increased to 21/28.
This statement "General Motors and Ford Motor Co. also plan to build smaller but more powerful and fuel-efficient engines. Ford's new 3.5-liter V-6, for example, makes 40 more horsepower than its current 4.0-liter." twists some facts to make it sound like Ford was able to increase power by decreasing engine size. That "current" 4.0L V6 is a paleolithic era truck engine that is completely unrelated to the new Duratec 3.5, an engine that was created to replace the smaller 3.0 in Ford's cars.
Ford and GM's engines are getting bigger, not smaller, along with everyone elses.
Interesting article, but it makes some generalizations that are not necessarily correct. For example, "I am very convinced that the time to increase displacement will never come back because increasing displacement automatically increases fuel consumption."
Thats just not true, a senior VP of powertrain development should know better. In '98, the GS400 had a 4.0L V8 and was rated 17/23. The 4.3L version in the '01 runs cleaner, and gets better EPA rated fuel economy, 18/24.
I really wonder if that quote was taken out of context in the article... Surely a BMW VP would be familiar with their own 2006 3-Series! The new 3.0L 6-cylinder is the same size as the previous 330i and larger than the previous 325i... yet each has 30 more hp and gets about 3 mpg better. Seems strange that he would say that, given their most recent powertrain introduction completely contradicts it. :confuse:
But my scenario assumes the time value of money is $0 which normally it is not.
Further the risks, even if slim, are real.
At month 72, what is the value of the "asset" assuming "only" 90,000 miles on it, kind of thing.
Also, is there value to having AT ALL TIMES a vehicle that is equal to or less than 3 MY old (in terms of convenience, lux, performance and safety, that is)?
For some folks the newest and latest and greatest are worth only a very small premium. For others it is worthwhile to have the newest, cleanest, fastest, safest, bla bla bla performance do dad, etc.
For others it is purely ego.
For yet some others (especially in the LPS market space) I would suspect there is some ego, some practicality, some "personal reward" for earning power, maybe some nod to electronic advancements that make the car a "better" office or environment for "whatever" suits your fancy.
My suggestions and that is all they are is that it is difficult to make this work EVEN when you assume 0% interest, aka, no time value of money factor as the latter half of my proposal suggests and well, we already got the message that the upfront half was subvented, so -- I just came to the conclusion that leasing is kinda like 2+2 = 4.5.
Or, at least is may be if you place a $ value on the above noted factors.
My old TV was "perfect" -- it wasn't High Def. The TV has little value (10% of its new cost, perhaps?) I wanted HDTV.
This, for some, translates to cars.
It is fine as wine if it doesn't for all of us -- differences are what makes the world go 'round. :surprise:
Dont forget that they also recently replaced their "x45i" V8 cars with "x50i".
The whole article is strange, it makes it sound as if there's this big new movement in the auto world to make smaller engines with turbos. I havent seen that anywhere. Volvo is replacing its 2.5T and 2.9L T6 cars with a new 3.2L straight six and a 4.4L V8, both of which are naturally aspirated. The new AMG engine is massive in OHC terms, and its naturally aspirated.
Toyota is rolling out its big new 3.5L everywhere, and Nissan is expected to push the VQ to 3.7L. I would expect them to update the VK45 to probably at least 4.8L.
A more or less "permanent" use payment with almost no additional costs (fuel, plates and insurance being the add ons) and always a young car CAN make sense for some.
But not for everyone.
My cousin says he buys cars that are at least 9 years old TO START WITH. Then a couple of grand later he has a mostly tip top shape car that cost little to acquire and get up to speed, so to speak.
He cares little about new systems and features -- even his nine year old Oldsmobile is clean, basically rust free, has power everything, AM & FM radio (with a tape player) and A/C that works.
It has young tires and has been checked out.
I doubt that he changes the oil ever on the thing after he gets it.
They usually last 3 or so years and as things start to fail, they don't get replaced (if they are NOT safety related that is.)
He has never been stranded -- but I draw the line at NO A/C which one of his past cars ended up having.
But that was in the time of his life when "no car shall cost more than $2500 to acquire, period."
My lease payment is $640 per for 36 months and then I have nothing.
At this point, I wouldn't trade his way for mine -- but he rarely seems to suffer (other than that AC thing on a car called a Milano -- yep, it was eye-tal-i-an! Or as my Italin wife likes to say I-tal-yan with a short sounding "I" of course!)
Here on the LPS board, I would suspect folks may be looking for the high zoot, new models.
On the subject of advice, I get lots of it here, indirectly. But there are times (not often here) when I will want to know "where I can get those wheels or what tires have the best grip with the lowest noise, etc."
I do seek advice, but I doubt that I would be quite so direct as to say "what should I do. . . ."
I came this close to getting the M35X in large measure due to the passion some of the M new owners displayed.
Here there are certainly BMW mavens aplenty and, for the duration, I am willing to hold up Audi's flag, so to speak, even though I mostly have come to believe these cars differentiate themselves more through style than content.
I recently drove a new Cadillac STS with the sport package option on it, and a new SRX with a bunch of options on it too -- truth be told, they are competent LPS type cars deserving of your attention. They are able, in the case of the STS especially to not make me feel like I am in a land yacht next to my Audi.
The M's are great driving machines. The BMW with Steptronic seems "this close" to anemic, but it is perhaps the best balanced of the lot, so I can mostly overlook the apparently power robbing transmission and enjoy the car.
Now a Cayenne compared with one of these LPS cars is a little bit more of a stretch to call "twin sons of different mothers." But even the Cayenne, Toaureg and X5 offer plenty of lux and performance despite their more Adventuresome and Utilitarian mission statements.
So yea, I get lots of covert advice here and from time to time, I'd wager I will ask for more direct advice.
Like: what do you think about the Pirelli PZero M+S UPH all season tires when contrasted with the factory All Season tires that come on most of these LPS brethren?
Back in the days when only academics had Internet access & "going online" required a subscription to 1 of the proprietary services, like GEnie or Prodigy, the sysop of CompuServe's personal finance forum used to rail against leases & loans. His approach to car acquisition: only drive what you can afford to pay cash for, don't buy new & don't spend more than $15K or $16K, even if you can afford to do so. To his way of thinking, there was nothing worse than being "upside down" on a car - owing more than the car was worth. He saw nothing wrong with fending off boredom by switching rides frequently as long as you adhered to these restrictions. At that time (this must've been 1990 or '91), $16K would put you into a 2 or 3-year old 3-series BMW or a 5 or 6-year-old 5-series.
While I would never say the Cayenne is "twin sons of different mothers" with the cars we discuss here, in terms of performance it isn't far off (the X5 is close too). The V8 Cayenne would certainly beat a lot of the V6 LPS' acceleration-wise, and the Turbo S would beat pretty much all of the V8's we discuss acceleration-wise as well (for a price of over $100K though). Both would lose in the turns, but you'd be surprised how the Cayenne gets around the curves if you've never driven one (particularly if it has the adjustable air suspension). Obviously to get a 5,500 lb truck to behave like a 4,000 lbs LPS is difficult to achieve though. Not being defensive of my new ride, but going from the 545 to the Cayenne S is much less of a difference than I thought it would be.
On the subject of advice, I think it's great to seek out advice here about lots of things. I was just saying I find the "help me decide" postings somewhat odd. Maybe it's just me, but I just wouldn't want or need that kind of input. I'm not really referring to Greg because he has never had a car before. It's the older folks I'm talking about.
I'm 36 too, but I'd listen to advice here about car qualities, but I'd give more weight to those who own the vehicles about which they speak. LPS's are a specific genre/type of vehicle and owners of such are generally specific about their likes and dislikes.
It is up to the original requestor of said information to weigh the value of the input provided. But ultimately, it his that person's decision as to what is important. Experience with particular models does help though.
FWIW, I drive vehicles that are not particularly marketed to my age group. LPS's are generally considered for older (40's and 50's and higher).
I guess I'm not being really clear about what I mean. I don't mean that it's bad to ask what people think of this or that car particularly if they own it. Say I wanted the new A6. I'd probably ask markcincinnati what he liked or disliked about his, and what options he'd suggest so I would know to look for things that I may not know otherwise. Sometimes it seems like people want the decision made for them though in a "tell me what I should do" way. I generally do a lot of research before I choose which cars to test drive, and I know what type of car suits my needs and what I can spend. So input from people here would simply be supplemental. Maybe that's how everyone looks at it. It just seems like some people rely on it more than others. To each their own though I guess!
Please direct me to the inter-net website where I will find the number of autos/Suvs sold by manufacturers... monthly/quarterly/annually...may help me to make a buying decision...many vehicles look nice, but do not sell!! Thanks, ty39
Honda Accords and Toyota Camrys are nice sedans, but hardly the best car on the road (for many people). It's just that they are very compentant in their price range. So, a love fest of the best selling may not tell you what is "best". That depends very much on what is important to you. A car could have a quirk, that you would just love, but not be popular to many people. Thus, the best car for you might not sell many. If you are looking for resale value, then it might be a factor.
OK so BMW is offering cheaper money for last year's models (good incentive to clear out the old) but I find it odd that the residuals for 2007 and 2006 models are the same. Are BMW residuals close to reality or merely a marketing tool? Most BMW 5-series are rented rather than owned.
Given the prices the used ones seem to fetch (regardless of whether you're talking CPO or Private Party), I'd say those residuals look quite realistic.
The proof of this would be, I suspect, to lease the car from another FI. Here in River City, we have a few LARGE banks -- they DO lease cars (but generally they cannot compete on % of money costs.)
The bank will use THE MOST REALISTIC residual possible, even if they cannot compete on rate.
Therefore -- and who knows other than curiosity why one would do this -- you could put together a lease quote and see the calcs and you would be able to determine what the Bank's sources claimed was "market" residual.
Subventing of leases is yet another reason that it has become ever more difficult (for ME and for some others, even if not for YOU) to make an outright buy work.
If the bank or FI du jour other than BMW Credit, etc, comes up with 60%, I'd say that is a very good secondary resource for you to determine the viability of the BMW lease program for yourself.
Leasing a $47K car (a BMW) with no upfronts for $581/including tax, per month for 36 months at 45K mileage including maintenance was a "no contest" deal for my wife and me.
The fact that a $10,000 less expensive Chrysler 300 costs more to lease for the same term, is mind blowing.
You'd think a buck is a buck -- but a residual is NOT a residual is what we seem to be concluding here.
well, it seems to me the residual has far less to do with it than the money factor.
For instance, take a $35k car (the 300c) and, even if you get a 50% residual, you are paying off $17.5k. On that $47k BMW at 60% residual, you are paying off almost $19k. So the lower payment is not a result of the residual, but the subsidized money factor.
that's just my quick assessment (i.e., guess), anyway.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Residuals set by the mfgr are marketing tools. Audi & BMW now, and Mercedes in recent past (maybe still?) use them to a) position competitive lease rates w/o lowering their sticker price, and b) give the appearance of higher resale value. In my case (last 3 MB's) and those of friends with BMW, the mfgr resids have been completely unrealistic witness the fact that at EOL, all the cars were returned rather than "flipped" or purchased 'cause the market value was much lower (about 10%+). As was already mentioned, most 3rd party finance companies will not match rates on new BMWs.
I'm now in an M45 (after an E500 and E55) and I'm certain I'll be either keeping it or making money on the resale a few years out.
What you've written simply doesn't wash with what I've seen. Consider the following points:
1) My first BMW was leased through a bank. Why? Because the bank had a better overall price due to a higher residual than BMW was using. 2) My second BMW was leased through BMW-FS, and it re-sold for $7,000 MORE than the residual.
The simple truth is that I've see claims that BMW "subsidizes" their leases partially through artificially high residuals for years. I suppose there are even some model that might justify said claims; however, when taken as a whole, I think such statements are just so much noise.
Looking at this from another perspective, I'm currently in the market for another car. The current leading candidate is a new Audi A3, however, I'm simply not sure that I really want to get back into FWD cars. Given that I'm now driving very high mileages (compared to my traditional driving profile), I've been toying with the idea of getting a used 5er instead. With that in mind, I'm keeping an eye peeled for a good condition 528i 5-Speed with the full SP, preferably of the 2000 vintage. The scary thing is that every single one that I've seen that is worth buying (i.e. not thrashed and reasonable number of miles) is fetching over 50% of its original value. Not too shabby for a 6 year old car with more than 75,000 miles on the clock.
Comments
Dear Dad,
Thanks. It's been fun fantasizing as a 15 year old what $50,000+ car I can get when I turn 16 in a couple of months. I've considered just about every LPS (luxury performance sedan, in case you don't spend an hour a day on Edmunds like I do). Now I'm asking my new internet buddies what they think of the SLK350. "Lexusguy" suggested I consider the Boxster (I'm sure he meant "S" model).
But as much fun as this has been, what the hell are you thinking? I'm 15. I'm about as mature as a 15 year old can be, but I'm 15. I hope to have another good 70+ years ahead of me. As long as I don't wrap myself around a tree.
So Dad, rather than sticking that silver spoon so far down my throat as to cause me to choke, maybe you should help me get a new car that still leaves me some room to aspire to something better that I could actually earn myself. And maybe you should take that extra $20,000 or $30,000 and set it aside for grad school. Or, if that's already covered, a low interest loan when I start my own business.
Again, Dad, thanks for the thought. But even the very best new car depreciates. Helping me understand the value of self achievement will last a lifetime. And nothing would give me more pleasure than buying YOU an LPS in 10-20 years to show you my appreciation. Sure beats having a son waiting for their inheritance check, doesn't it?
Love,
Greg
Hear, hear!
Just cry all days and nights and your Daddy will buy you a Bentley GT.
Greg: I agree with others here that there are better ways to spend your dad's money and teach some life lessons. However, it is your choice (and your dad's money). All we hope is that you make a wise choice and then not do something foolish if you end up with a potent vehicle.
We are here to talk about the cars and we need to stick to that.
I'm not sure that we are not having our legs pulled, but whatever the case, if you don't want to engage in the barebones facts of the conversation provoked by this apparent child, don't. Either way is fine, but don't bother telling him or his father how they should run their lives. That's not what we're here for.
We also aren't here to feed trolls. Think about it.
Please let's just talk about the cars. Thanks.
Maybe you should inform the insurance companies about how alert S6 drivers are. Makes you wonder why insurance companies charge higher premiums for sportier cars?
:P
Yesterday afternoon I got the sweetest of sweet deals on a BMW 530xi Touring. Not exactly what I wanted in terms of HP, but it was the best family compromise I could find (no fan of SUVs or Minivans).
Now I'm going to pursue another escapist endeavor other than Edmunds. This week I am going to be looking at consumer electronics forums to gather more info on LCD/Plasma TVs( after my experience here I vow never ever to reveal my cell phone libertarian views in those forums) :sick:
Wish all forum members the best!
Take Care,
Dewey
Anyway, this libertarian Yank appreciated your POV & wishes you the best of luck with your gorgeous car. Don't be a stranger.
But I hope you reconsider and continue posting.
Agreeing to disagree is par for the course around here!
PS: I suggest AVS Forum-one of the most comprehensive HDTV series of threads.
link title
It is very interesting that it confirmed my exact thoughts back when I decided to get my first previously enjoyed LPS.
A $47,000 BMW @ 36 months/45K miles, with a sec deposit, $250 cap cost reduction, and first month's payment (with full maintenance) is $581 (including tax.)
Buy gas, insurance and two replacement sets of plates and probably one set of tires and walk away Renee.
Total cost for the term (not including gas and insurance) ~ $22,000.
At the end of the lease IF the residual is 50% the sell price of the car after it has been CPO's would be $25,000.
Warranty would be extended but NOT maint. If 0% financing were offered it would be $694 per month for anthoer 36 months NOT including some maint costs which at a run rate of 1,250 miles per month would mean what for a car going from 45,000 to 90,000 miles on the clock.
link title
It is very interesting that it confirmed my exact thoughts back when I decided to get my first previously enjoyed LPS.
They had over $2k in repairs in two years.... If they had bought it Certified, they would have had $0. Maybe Edmunds should consider that in their next long-term test, since people shopping for pre-owned cars often like to have that warranty.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
1- Being an IT contractor, sometime my business takes me to the USA for months at time. Then, I would need to bring my car with me but this is not legal for vehicle leased in Canada.
2- There are no tax advantages what so ever to lease vs buy a vehicle in Canada. So given the more restricted usage conditions of a leased vehicle, buying makes more sense.
3- The price of a new 5 or GS was about CAD +75K. This is a lot of cash.
I agree that the BMW repair costs in the article could have been covered by an extended warranty (I actually bought EW with my GS), but the potential headaches(non monetary costs) in figuring out car problems and getting them fixed by dealers did not make sense to me. It has been three beautiful trouble free years (60K miles)with my GS.
Take care.
Autoweek Article
Yes, the 5-Series is technically a heavier car, however, the difference between a 530i and a 330i is a whopping 44 pounds (in Automatic trim, per Greg's requirements). That's not exactly a huge difference if you ask me. ;-)
To me at least, the larger issue is WHY the weight difference is so small. The answer lies in the fact that the 5er uses significantly more aluminium in both the body structure and in the sheet metal. Like for like, any given little crunch or ding will cost a whole lot more to fix on the 5er, especially given that many shops have yet to get fully up to speed when it comes to making repairs on aluminum cars.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Thats just not true, a senior VP of powertrain development should know better. In '98, the GS400 had a 4.0L V8 and was rated 17/23. The 4.3L version in the '01 runs cleaner, and gets better EPA rated fuel economy, 18/24.
The IS300's straight six was rated just 18/23. The IS350's state-of-the-art motor makes 91 more horses, while fuel economy increased to 21/28.
This statement "General Motors and Ford Motor Co. also plan to build smaller but more powerful and fuel-efficient engines. Ford's new 3.5-liter V-6, for example, makes 40 more horsepower than its current 4.0-liter." twists some facts to make it sound like Ford was able to increase power by decreasing engine size. That "current" 4.0L V6 is a paleolithic era truck engine that is completely unrelated to the new Duratec 3.5, an engine that was created to replace the smaller 3.0 in Ford's cars.
Ford and GM's engines are getting bigger, not smaller, along with everyone elses.
Thats just not true, a senior VP of powertrain development should know better. In '98, the GS400 had a 4.0L V8 and was rated 17/23. The 4.3L version in the '01 runs cleaner, and gets better EPA rated fuel economy, 18/24.
I really wonder if that quote was taken out of context in the article... Surely a BMW VP would be familiar with their own 2006 3-Series! The new 3.0L 6-cylinder is the same size as the previous 330i and larger than the previous 325i... yet each has 30 more hp and gets about 3 mpg better. Seems strange that he would say that, given their most recent powertrain introduction completely contradicts it. :confuse:
Further the risks, even if slim, are real.
At month 72, what is the value of the "asset" assuming "only" 90,000 miles on it, kind of thing.
Also, is there value to having AT ALL TIMES a vehicle that is equal to or less than 3 MY old (in terms of convenience, lux, performance and safety, that is)?
For some folks the newest and latest and greatest are worth only a very small premium. For others it is worthwhile to have the newest, cleanest, fastest, safest, bla bla bla performance do dad, etc.
For others it is purely ego.
For yet some others (especially in the LPS market space) I would suspect there is some ego, some practicality, some "personal reward" for earning power, maybe some nod to electronic advancements that make the car a "better" office or environment for "whatever" suits your fancy.
My suggestions and that is all they are is that it is difficult to make this work EVEN when you assume 0% interest, aka, no time value of money factor as the latter half of my proposal suggests and well, we already got the message that the upfront half was subvented, so -- I just came to the conclusion that leasing is kinda like 2+2 = 4.5.
Or, at least is may be if you place a $ value on the above noted factors.
My old TV was "perfect" -- it wasn't High Def. The TV has little value (10% of its new cost, perhaps?) I wanted HDTV.
This, for some, translates to cars.
It is fine as wine if it doesn't for all of us -- differences are what makes the world go 'round. :surprise:
The whole article is strange, it makes it sound as if there's this big new movement in the auto world to make smaller engines with turbos. I havent seen that anywhere. Volvo is replacing its 2.5T and 2.9L T6 cars with a new 3.2L straight six and a 4.4L V8, both of which are naturally aspirated. The new AMG engine is massive in OHC terms, and its naturally aspirated.
Toyota is rolling out its big new 3.5L everywhere, and Nissan is expected to push the VQ to 3.7L. I would expect them to update the VK45 to probably at least 4.8L.
But not for everyone.
My cousin says he buys cars that are at least 9 years old TO START WITH. Then a couple of grand later he has a mostly tip top shape car that cost little to acquire and get up to speed, so to speak.
He cares little about new systems and features -- even his nine year old Oldsmobile is clean, basically rust free, has power everything, AM & FM radio (with a tape player) and A/C that works.
It has young tires and has been checked out.
I doubt that he changes the oil ever on the thing after he gets it.
They usually last 3 or so years and as things start to fail, they don't get replaced (if they are NOT safety related that is.)
He has never been stranded -- but I draw the line at NO A/C which one of his past cars ended up having.
But that was in the time of his life when "no car shall cost more than $2500 to acquire, period."
My lease payment is $640 per for 36 months and then I have nothing.
At this point, I wouldn't trade his way for mine -- but he rarely seems to suffer (other than that AC thing on a car called a Milano -- yep, it was eye-tal-i-an! Or as my Italin wife likes to say I-tal-yan with a short sounding "I" of course!)
Here on the LPS board, I would suspect folks may be looking for the high zoot, new models.
On the subject of advice, I get lots of it here, indirectly. But there are times (not often here) when I will want to know "where I can get those wheels or what tires have the best grip with the lowest noise, etc."
I do seek advice, but I doubt that I would be quite so direct as to say "what should I do. . . ."
I came this close to getting the M35X in large measure due to the passion some of the M new owners displayed.
Here there are certainly BMW mavens aplenty and, for the duration, I am willing to hold up Audi's flag, so to speak, even though I mostly have come to believe these cars differentiate themselves more through style than content.
I recently drove a new Cadillac STS with the sport package option on it, and a new SRX with a bunch of options on it too -- truth be told, they are competent LPS type cars deserving of your attention. They are able, in the case of the STS especially to not make me feel like I am in a land yacht next to my Audi.
The M's are great driving machines. The BMW with Steptronic seems "this close" to anemic, but it is perhaps the best balanced of the lot, so I can mostly overlook the apparently power robbing transmission and enjoy the car.
Now a Cayenne compared with one of these LPS cars is a little bit more of a stretch to call "twin sons of different mothers." But even the Cayenne, Toaureg and X5 offer plenty of lux and performance despite their more Adventuresome and Utilitarian mission statements.
So yea, I get lots of covert advice here and from time to time, I'd wager I will ask for more direct advice.
Like: what do you think about the Pirelli PZero M+S UPH all season tires when contrasted with the factory All Season tires that come on most of these LPS brethren?
Takes all kinds.
:shades:
On the subject of advice, I think it's great to seek out advice here about lots of things. I was just saying I find the "help me decide" postings somewhat odd. Maybe it's just me, but I just wouldn't want or need that kind of input. I'm not really referring to Greg because he has never had a car before. It's the older folks I'm talking about.
I represent that remark! :shades:
It is up to the original requestor of said information to weigh the value of the input provided. But ultimately, it his that person's decision as to what is important. Experience with particular models does help though.
FWIW, I drive vehicles that are not particularly marketed to my age group. LPS's are generally considered for older (40's and 50's and higher).
-Paul
Thanks, ty39
2007 525 60% residual, money factor of 0.00225
2006 525 60% 0.00160
2007 530 60% 0.00225
2006 530 59% 0.00140
2007 550 60% 0.00225
2006 550 60% 0.00175
OK so BMW is offering cheaper money for last year's models (good incentive to clear out the old) but I find it odd that the residuals for 2007 and 2006 models are the same. Are BMW residuals close to reality or merely a marketing tool? Most BMW 5-series are rented rather than owned.
Best Regards,
Shipo
The bank will use THE MOST REALISTIC residual possible, even if they cannot compete on rate.
Therefore -- and who knows other than curiosity why one would do this -- you could put together a lease quote and see the calcs and you would be able to determine what the Bank's sources claimed was "market" residual.
Subventing of leases is yet another reason that it has become ever more difficult (for ME and for some others, even if not for YOU) to make an outright buy work.
If the bank or FI du jour other than BMW Credit, etc, comes up with 60%, I'd say that is a very good secondary resource for you to determine the viability of the BMW lease program for yourself.
Leasing a $47K car (a BMW) with no upfronts for $581/including tax, per month for 36 months at 45K mileage including maintenance was a "no contest" deal for my wife and me.
The fact that a $10,000 less expensive Chrysler 300 costs more to lease for the same term, is mind blowing.
You'd think a buck is a buck -- but a residual is NOT a residual is what we seem to be concluding here.
Drive it like you live. :shades:
For instance, take a $35k car (the 300c) and, even if you get a 50% residual, you are paying off $17.5k. On that $47k BMW at 60% residual, you are paying off almost $19k. So the lower payment is not a result of the residual, but the subsidized money factor.
that's just my quick assessment (i.e., guess), anyway.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12287260/
Add in the lower money factor, and the '06 will be much cheaper to lease than the '07..
If they didn't do that, they'd never get rid of the '06s, without throwing buckets of cash at them...
They prefer to take the bite on the back end, rather than the front end... I think it is a pretty good plan, as it seems to prop up re-sale values..
If you are leasing, you want unrealistically high residuals...
regards,
kyfdx
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I'm now in an M45 (after an E500 and E55) and I'm certain I'll be either keeping it or making money on the resale a few years out.
1) My first BMW was leased through a bank. Why? Because the bank had a better overall price due to a higher residual than BMW was using.
2) My second BMW was leased through BMW-FS, and it re-sold for $7,000 MORE than the residual.
The simple truth is that I've see claims that BMW "subsidizes" their leases partially through artificially high residuals for years. I suppose there are even some model that might justify said claims; however, when taken as a whole, I think such statements are just so much noise.
Looking at this from another perspective, I'm currently in the market for another car. The current leading candidate is a new Audi A3, however, I'm simply not sure that I really want to get back into FWD cars. Given that I'm now driving very high mileages (compared to my traditional driving profile), I've been toying with the idea of getting a used 5er instead. With that in mind, I'm keeping an eye peeled for a good condition 528i 5-Speed with the full SP, preferably of the 2000 vintage. The scary thing is that every single one that I've seen that is worth buying (i.e. not thrashed and reasonable number of miles) is fetching over 50% of its original value. Not too shabby for a 6 year old car with more than 75,000 miles on the clock.
Best Regards,
Shipo
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