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Dear Dad,
Thanks. It's been fun fantasizing as a 15 year old what $50,000+ car I can get when I turn 16 in a couple of months. I've considered just about every LPS (luxury performance sedan, in case you don't spend an hour a day on Edmunds like I do). Now I'm asking my new internet buddies what they think of the SLK350. "Lexusguy" suggested I consider the Boxster (I'm sure he meant "S" model).
But as much fun as this has been, what the hell are you thinking? I'm 15. I'm about as mature as a 15 year old can be, but I'm 15. I hope to have another good 70+ years ahead of me. As long as I don't wrap myself around a tree.
So Dad, rather than sticking that silver spoon so far down my throat as to cause me to choke, maybe you should help me get a new car that still leaves me some room to aspire to something better that I could actually earn myself. And maybe you should take that extra $20,000 or $30,000 and set it aside for grad school. Or, if that's already covered, a low interest loan when I start my own business.
Again, Dad, thanks for the thought. But even the very best new car depreciates. Helping me understand the value of self achievement will last a lifetime. And nothing would give me more pleasure than buying YOU an LPS in 10-20 years to show you my appreciation. Sure beats having a son waiting for their inheritance check, doesn't it?
Love,
Greg
Hear, hear!
Just cry all days and nights and your Daddy will buy you a Bentley GT.
Greg: I agree with others here that there are better ways to spend your dad's money and teach some life lessons. However, it is your choice (and your dad's money). All we hope is that you make a wise choice and then not do something foolish if you end up with a potent vehicle.
We are here to talk about the cars and we need to stick to that.
I'm not sure that we are not having our legs pulled, but whatever the case, if you don't want to engage in the barebones facts of the conversation provoked by this apparent child, don't. Either way is fine, but don't bother telling him or his father how they should run their lives. That's not what we're here for.
We also aren't here to feed trolls. Think about it.
Please let's just talk about the cars. Thanks.
Maybe you should inform the insurance companies about how alert S6 drivers are. Makes you wonder why insurance companies charge higher premiums for sportier cars?
:P
Yesterday afternoon I got the sweetest of sweet deals on a BMW 530xi Touring. Not exactly what I wanted in terms of HP, but it was the best family compromise I could find (no fan of SUVs or Minivans).
Now I'm going to pursue another escapist endeavor other than Edmunds. This week I am going to be looking at consumer electronics forums to gather more info on LCD/Plasma TVs( after my experience here I vow never ever to reveal my cell phone libertarian views in those forums) :sick:
Wish all forum members the best!
Take Care,
Dewey
Anyway, this libertarian Yank appreciated your POV & wishes you the best of luck with your gorgeous car. Don't be a stranger.
But I hope you reconsider and continue posting.
Agreeing to disagree is par for the course around here!
PS: I suggest AVS Forum-one of the most comprehensive HDTV series of threads.
link title
It is very interesting that it confirmed my exact thoughts back when I decided to get my first previously enjoyed LPS.
A $47,000 BMW @ 36 months/45K miles, with a sec deposit, $250 cap cost reduction, and first month's payment (with full maintenance) is $581 (including tax.)
Buy gas, insurance and two replacement sets of plates and probably one set of tires and walk away Renee.
Total cost for the term (not including gas and insurance) ~ $22,000.
At the end of the lease IF the residual is 50% the sell price of the car after it has been CPO's would be $25,000.
Warranty would be extended but NOT maint. If 0% financing were offered it would be $694 per month for anthoer 36 months NOT including some maint costs which at a run rate of 1,250 miles per month would mean what for a car going from 45,000 to 90,000 miles on the clock.
link title
It is very interesting that it confirmed my exact thoughts back when I decided to get my first previously enjoyed LPS.
They had over $2k in repairs in two years.... If they had bought it Certified, they would have had $0. Maybe Edmunds should consider that in their next long-term test, since people shopping for pre-owned cars often like to have that warranty.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
1- Being an IT contractor, sometime my business takes me to the USA for months at time. Then, I would need to bring my car with me but this is not legal for vehicle leased in Canada.
2- There are no tax advantages what so ever to lease vs buy a vehicle in Canada. So given the more restricted usage conditions of a leased vehicle, buying makes more sense.
3- The price of a new 5 or GS was about CAD +75K. This is a lot of cash.
I agree that the BMW repair costs in the article could have been covered by an extended warranty (I actually bought EW with my GS), but the potential headaches(non monetary costs) in figuring out car problems and getting them fixed by dealers did not make sense to me. It has been three beautiful trouble free years (60K miles)with my GS.
Take care.
Autoweek Article
Yes, the 5-Series is technically a heavier car, however, the difference between a 530i and a 330i is a whopping 44 pounds (in Automatic trim, per Greg's requirements). That's not exactly a huge difference if you ask me. ;-)
To me at least, the larger issue is WHY the weight difference is so small. The answer lies in the fact that the 5er uses significantly more aluminium in both the body structure and in the sheet metal. Like for like, any given little crunch or ding will cost a whole lot more to fix on the 5er, especially given that many shops have yet to get fully up to speed when it comes to making repairs on aluminum cars.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Thats just not true, a senior VP of powertrain development should know better. In '98, the GS400 had a 4.0L V8 and was rated 17/23. The 4.3L version in the '01 runs cleaner, and gets better EPA rated fuel economy, 18/24.
The IS300's straight six was rated just 18/23. The IS350's state-of-the-art motor makes 91 more horses, while fuel economy increased to 21/28.
This statement "General Motors and Ford Motor Co. also plan to build smaller but more powerful and fuel-efficient engines. Ford's new 3.5-liter V-6, for example, makes 40 more horsepower than its current 4.0-liter." twists some facts to make it sound like Ford was able to increase power by decreasing engine size. That "current" 4.0L V6 is a paleolithic era truck engine that is completely unrelated to the new Duratec 3.5, an engine that was created to replace the smaller 3.0 in Ford's cars.
Ford and GM's engines are getting bigger, not smaller, along with everyone elses.
Thats just not true, a senior VP of powertrain development should know better. In '98, the GS400 had a 4.0L V8 and was rated 17/23. The 4.3L version in the '01 runs cleaner, and gets better EPA rated fuel economy, 18/24.
I really wonder if that quote was taken out of context in the article... Surely a BMW VP would be familiar with their own 2006 3-Series! The new 3.0L 6-cylinder is the same size as the previous 330i and larger than the previous 325i... yet each has 30 more hp and gets about 3 mpg better. Seems strange that he would say that, given their most recent powertrain introduction completely contradicts it. :confuse:
Further the risks, even if slim, are real.
At month 72, what is the value of the "asset" assuming "only" 90,000 miles on it, kind of thing.
Also, is there value to having AT ALL TIMES a vehicle that is equal to or less than 3 MY old (in terms of convenience, lux, performance and safety, that is)?
For some folks the newest and latest and greatest are worth only a very small premium. For others it is worthwhile to have the newest, cleanest, fastest, safest, bla bla bla performance do dad, etc.
For others it is purely ego.
For yet some others (especially in the LPS market space) I would suspect there is some ego, some practicality, some "personal reward" for earning power, maybe some nod to electronic advancements that make the car a "better" office or environment for "whatever" suits your fancy.
My suggestions and that is all they are is that it is difficult to make this work EVEN when you assume 0% interest, aka, no time value of money factor as the latter half of my proposal suggests and well, we already got the message that the upfront half was subvented, so -- I just came to the conclusion that leasing is kinda like 2+2 = 4.5.
Or, at least is may be if you place a $ value on the above noted factors.
My old TV was "perfect" -- it wasn't High Def. The TV has little value (10% of its new cost, perhaps?) I wanted HDTV.
This, for some, translates to cars.
It is fine as wine if it doesn't for all of us -- differences are what makes the world go 'round. :surprise:
The whole article is strange, it makes it sound as if there's this big new movement in the auto world to make smaller engines with turbos. I havent seen that anywhere. Volvo is replacing its 2.5T and 2.9L T6 cars with a new 3.2L straight six and a 4.4L V8, both of which are naturally aspirated. The new AMG engine is massive in OHC terms, and its naturally aspirated.
Toyota is rolling out its big new 3.5L everywhere, and Nissan is expected to push the VQ to 3.7L. I would expect them to update the VK45 to probably at least 4.8L.
But not for everyone.
My cousin says he buys cars that are at least 9 years old TO START WITH. Then a couple of grand later he has a mostly tip top shape car that cost little to acquire and get up to speed, so to speak.
He cares little about new systems and features -- even his nine year old Oldsmobile is clean, basically rust free, has power everything, AM & FM radio (with a tape player) and A/C that works.
It has young tires and has been checked out.
I doubt that he changes the oil ever on the thing after he gets it.
They usually last 3 or so years and as things start to fail, they don't get replaced (if they are NOT safety related that is.)
He has never been stranded -- but I draw the line at NO A/C which one of his past cars ended up having.
But that was in the time of his life when "no car shall cost more than $2500 to acquire, period."
My lease payment is $640 per for 36 months and then I have nothing.
At this point, I wouldn't trade his way for mine -- but he rarely seems to suffer (other than that AC thing on a car called a Milano -- yep, it was eye-tal-i-an! Or as my Italin wife likes to say I-tal-yan with a short sounding "I" of course!)
Here on the LPS board, I would suspect folks may be looking for the high zoot, new models.
On the subject of advice, I get lots of it here, indirectly. But there are times (not often here) when I will want to know "where I can get those wheels or what tires have the best grip with the lowest noise, etc."
I do seek advice, but I doubt that I would be quite so direct as to say "what should I do. . . ."
I came this close to getting the M35X in large measure due to the passion some of the M new owners displayed.
Here there are certainly BMW mavens aplenty and, for the duration, I am willing to hold up Audi's flag, so to speak, even though I mostly have come to believe these cars differentiate themselves more through style than content.
I recently drove a new Cadillac STS with the sport package option on it, and a new SRX with a bunch of options on it too -- truth be told, they are competent LPS type cars deserving of your attention. They are able, in the case of the STS especially to not make me feel like I am in a land yacht next to my Audi.
The M's are great driving machines. The BMW with Steptronic seems "this close" to anemic, but it is perhaps the best balanced of the lot, so I can mostly overlook the apparently power robbing transmission and enjoy the car.
Now a Cayenne compared with one of these LPS cars is a little bit more of a stretch to call "twin sons of different mothers." But even the Cayenne, Toaureg and X5 offer plenty of lux and performance despite their more Adventuresome and Utilitarian mission statements.
So yea, I get lots of covert advice here and from time to time, I'd wager I will ask for more direct advice.
Like: what do you think about the Pirelli PZero M+S UPH all season tires when contrasted with the factory All Season tires that come on most of these LPS brethren?
Takes all kinds.
:shades:
On the subject of advice, I think it's great to seek out advice here about lots of things. I was just saying I find the "help me decide" postings somewhat odd. Maybe it's just me, but I just wouldn't want or need that kind of input. I'm not really referring to Greg because he has never had a car before. It's the older folks I'm talking about.
I represent that remark! :shades:
It is up to the original requestor of said information to weigh the value of the input provided. But ultimately, it his that person's decision as to what is important. Experience with particular models does help though.
FWIW, I drive vehicles that are not particularly marketed to my age group. LPS's are generally considered for older (40's and 50's and higher).
-Paul
Thanks, ty39
2007 525 60% residual, money factor of 0.00225
2006 525 60% 0.00160
2007 530 60% 0.00225
2006 530 59% 0.00140
2007 550 60% 0.00225
2006 550 60% 0.00175
OK so BMW is offering cheaper money for last year's models (good incentive to clear out the old) but I find it odd that the residuals for 2007 and 2006 models are the same. Are BMW residuals close to reality or merely a marketing tool? Most BMW 5-series are rented rather than owned.
Best Regards,
Shipo
The bank will use THE MOST REALISTIC residual possible, even if they cannot compete on rate.
Therefore -- and who knows other than curiosity why one would do this -- you could put together a lease quote and see the calcs and you would be able to determine what the Bank's sources claimed was "market" residual.
Subventing of leases is yet another reason that it has become ever more difficult (for ME and for some others, even if not for YOU) to make an outright buy work.
If the bank or FI du jour other than BMW Credit, etc, comes up with 60%, I'd say that is a very good secondary resource for you to determine the viability of the BMW lease program for yourself.
Leasing a $47K car (a BMW) with no upfronts for $581/including tax, per month for 36 months at 45K mileage including maintenance was a "no contest" deal for my wife and me.
The fact that a $10,000 less expensive Chrysler 300 costs more to lease for the same term, is mind blowing.
You'd think a buck is a buck -- but a residual is NOT a residual is what we seem to be concluding here.
Drive it like you live. :shades:
For instance, take a $35k car (the 300c) and, even if you get a 50% residual, you are paying off $17.5k. On that $47k BMW at 60% residual, you are paying off almost $19k. So the lower payment is not a result of the residual, but the subsidized money factor.
that's just my quick assessment (i.e., guess), anyway.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12287260/
Add in the lower money factor, and the '06 will be much cheaper to lease than the '07..
If they didn't do that, they'd never get rid of the '06s, without throwing buckets of cash at them...
They prefer to take the bite on the back end, rather than the front end... I think it is a pretty good plan, as it seems to prop up re-sale values..
If you are leasing, you want unrealistically high residuals...
regards,
kyfdx
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I'm now in an M45 (after an E500 and E55) and I'm certain I'll be either keeping it or making money on the resale a few years out.
1) My first BMW was leased through a bank. Why? Because the bank had a better overall price due to a higher residual than BMW was using.
2) My second BMW was leased through BMW-FS, and it re-sold for $7,000 MORE than the residual.
The simple truth is that I've see claims that BMW "subsidizes" their leases partially through artificially high residuals for years. I suppose there are even some model that might justify said claims; however, when taken as a whole, I think such statements are just so much noise.
Looking at this from another perspective, I'm currently in the market for another car. The current leading candidate is a new Audi A3, however, I'm simply not sure that I really want to get back into FWD cars. Given that I'm now driving very high mileages (compared to my traditional driving profile), I've been toying with the idea of getting a used 5er instead. With that in mind, I'm keeping an eye peeled for a good condition 528i 5-Speed with the full SP, preferably of the 2000 vintage. The scary thing is that every single one that I've seen that is worth buying (i.e. not thrashed and reasonable number of miles) is fetching over 50% of its original value. Not too shabby for a 6 year old car with more than 75,000 miles on the clock.
Best Regards,
Shipo
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