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Luxury Performance Sedans



  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    "Don't believe the Skyline came in a 4-door config! This thing looks like the 17 year-old down the street got a hold of Daddy's Altima".

    Of course it did. What do you think the G35 sedan is called in Japan? They dont have the Infiniti badge there. The GT-R is like what the M3 is to the 3 series.

  • bjbird2bjbird2 Posts: 647
    As nice as the CTS was, American designs don't seem to hold up over time. They don't age very gracefully. A classic example is the first generation Taurus, which picked up some design cues from the Audi 5000. The Audi still looks good, the Taurus didn't hold up over time. The classic European designs hold up very well, and I think the new Infinitis will also look good over time.
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    "I think there are an awful lot of forced elements all jockeying for position on an uneven and incoherent field!"

    Yes...Deloreanesque, Citroen Roofed, Celicated, untamed Mustang. :surprise:
  • docnukemdocnukem Posts: 485
    "Celicated" sounds painful. Is that something that happens when you ride untamed Mustangs?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I agree. That makes me wonder how long Chrysler will be able to stay in the black. They're all high fiving in the halls at Auburn Hills over the 300C, but how long before the novelty is over?
  • sdiver68sdiver68 Posts: 123
    340HP, M-B E series based chasis and suspension, for ~$30K well equipped, or go to the 425HP and true king of the road qualifications for less than $40K!

    My guess is the "novelty" will last quite awhile.
  • sdiver68sdiver68 Posts: 123
    As I was driving down the highway to work yesterday morning in my M45 Sport, a newer 745i merged in front of me, and I thought to myself what does the 7 series offer that the Infiniti M45 does not? So, naturally I decided to look up size statistics, since the M and 5-series are considered direct competitors. Here is what I found, measurements in inches unless stated otherwise, and pulled straight from, and listed in order of size:

    Length: 7-198.4 M-192.6 5-191.1 OK the 7 is much longer, fair enough.
    Width: 7-74.9 5-72.7 M-70.8 And both BMW's are much wider overall.
    Front Shoulder Room: 7-59.3 M-58.2 5-57.3 Apparently the BMW's extra width is Bangle body styling
    Front Head Room: M-39.6 7-39.2 5-37.7 Hmmm, looks like Infiniti is catering to the NBA set.
    Front Leg Room: M-44.2 5-41.5 7-41.3 I guess the chauffeur does not get to stretch out much in the 7....
    Rear Shoulder Room: 7-58.7 5-57.2 M-56.9 BMW is catering to the back seat NFL crowd!
    Rear Head Room: 7-38.5 M-37.8 5-37 7 Series still catering to back seaters.
    Rear Leg Room: M-37.3 7-37.2 5-36 Interesting and not what I expected...
    Maximum Cargo: 7-18cf M-14.9cf 5-14cf 7 Series driver gets to pack the full sized golf bag.
    Curb Weight: 5-3472 7-4486 M-3832 lbs- Different engines and configurations change this up to ~200 lbs.

    Overall, I would say the M slots right between the 7 and 5 size wise.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Good post, Diver. My impression of the M was always that it came off more as a bigger lux barge and a little out of the class in this thread. I guess this is good for a lot of people. I tend to like them smaller for performance reasons but the M sure did put up the numbers in this category.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    I'd like them to pursue something (small preferably) with the power to the back,


    maybe a future Acura/Honda may not have power from ther rear but there is a good possibility that it will be equipped with SH-AWD. The Honda Sports 4 Concept currently exhibited in the Tokyo Auto Show may reveal something about the future of Acuras and Hondas. If that is the case, then expect a wider range of Honda/Acura SH-AWD sedans and hopefully wagons.

    I think there is a good possibility of seeing a future TSX SH-AWD sedan/wagon in North America. My hope is for a TSX SH-AWD wagon on our shores and I dont think that would be a pipe dream since a TSX wagon already exists in Europe (pardon me for being a bit off topic from the upper strata of theLPS category)
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    Base MSRP went up from $49,100 to $49,300. The CMBS, ACC, Run-flats package is an extra $3800 ($53,100 total).

    Add $615 for destination. 56KXW
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    OK, so "looks like" might be too strong a statement. But, the front end of the BMW 5, to my eye, has the Pontiac "cat eye" look. Now, this probably is either offensive or a compliment based on how "the eye of the beholder" takes to the look of one versus the other. Pontiac had the look, the front end look that is evident in the BMW 5 series before BMW.

    I'm not trying to be argumentative, but what Pontiac do you think looks like the E60? I've been looking at pictures, and I can't figure out which car you're comparing.....
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    "Overall, I would say the M slots right between the 7 and 5 size wise..."

    Apparently, that's part of the business plan at Nissan, IMO. The G is much more a 5 competitor based on size, but plays in the 3's pricing territory. I drove behind a Maxima the other day; the thing is massive.

    "Supersize Me" must have been the brainchild of the Nissan desgin staff, I'm thinkin'... :(
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,926
    Under $60,000 what car out there would be the one that you would zero in on and have to have.

    Under $60K? Hmm... That's a tough one. The top two contendors are the '06 Infiniti M45 Sport and the '05+ Audi A6 4.2 (w/ the Sport package which was this " " close to being in my garage instead of the ones in there now). Had I not gone to hear that Mustang GT... :blush:

    As far as having an "older" Chrysler, I don't think anybody would call it "old." It's only an '02.

    But, yeah, it's hard to pin a car on me because I like to keep my options WIDE open. I want the most car for the money I want to spend.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,926
    Sorry, TayIOrd Not even close my man!

    jjacura, you're looking at the wrong pictures. Go to the link that was referenced.

    Reading further down, I see you're the only one looking at the wrong pictures. Now THAT'S funny! :P
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Posts: 541
    Base MSRP went up from $49,100 to $49,300. The CMBS, ACC, Run-flats package is an extra $3800 ($53,100 total). Add $615 for destination.

    Add another $495 for the Rear-Camera and the '06 RL will MSRP for $54,210 :surprise:

    Compare that to the fully loaded M35x (Premium, FSS) at $54,570.
    Note that this exceeds the RL equipment list (Premium includes rear DVD w/ rear heated and reclining seats).

    What was Acura thinking? :confuse: Or perhaps they weren't :blush:
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,926

    Looks Cobalt SS-ish to me. ;) With some Ferrari F430 in the lower fascia/exhaust thrown in for good measure.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Still not seeing the Chevy. What I see is a very nice step ahead of where the R-34 GTR was. Also, anyone driving a GT-R wouldnt have to look at Cobalt tail lamps for very long :)
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    Ha Ha,,,no Doc...just my vain attempt to bring the Celica like side contour lines into the overall initial feeling I had looking at Wales pictures. You are right come to think of it. Sounds Painful. :sick:
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    Right you are, lovmyclk spotted that right away....I apparently Googled into Edmunds pictures of the testing mule based on the Infinity G35 coupe. which incidently is very nice. However, lookin at your posts 4408 and 4410 there is reason to give you a glimmer of credence my man.

    Now That's really funny! ;)
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Posts: 647
    Hmmm...the Infiniti GT-R rear end is what the Cobalt shoulda' been. The GT- R is much cleaner and more refined.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I suppose this would be Cobalt SS inspired as well.

  • mariner7mariner7 Posts: 509
    All Ferraris have four circular rear lights, as well. All Skyline GT-R's have had them. BTW, how many generations of Cobalt are there?
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,926
    Who said anything about the rear end being "inspired" by a Cobalt?? "Looks like" and "inspired" don't mean the same thing.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    In the November 2005 issue of Motor Trend there is a comparison of the 2006 Infiniti M45 sport vs the 2005 BMW 545i non-sport(both with automatic trannys). The 545i came out ahead.
    To my delight, this is the same car I have: non-sport, steptronic.
    "Nothing pours performance like a Bimmer. A sublime machine."
    Just goes to show. Even without the sport package, the 545i is a great car.
    Nice job Motor Trend!
  • sdiver68sdiver68 Posts: 123
    The only other comparison I know of directly between the M45 and 545i was Road and Track, in which the M45 won. With Car and Driver, the M45 'comparos' with the 530i due to the huge price differential between the M45 and 545i.
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Posts: 351
    It appears they tested the "machine", not the on-board electronics. Not that human-machine interfaces are not important... they are. It's just that BMW broke new ground with iDrive in 2004 and paid dearly for a while - maybe still are to a degree. Believe it is getting sorted out and is only difficult to use if you want it to be difficult to use. Still the best driving experience in the class, if my 2003 proves anything, IMO.

    The minimalist user interface design of the BMW cockpit is very German to me. So are the cupholders :D - a definite afterthought in the driving experience BMW touts. To me, and probably not to others, luxury is measured by excellent engineering and the overall performance balance in this superb car. It became the benchmark for a reason in much the same way Japanese cars became benchmarks in the compact/economy class.

    Now that Germany, Japan and a still-struggling US auto sector vie for a broader cross-section of buyers, they will each venture into untested waters for a while until they learn what works and what doesn't. Question is, who will learn the best??
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    "They tested the "machine", not the on-board electronics."
    Yeah and thank the Lord, NOT THE DESIGNS!!
    How refreshing to read a comparo about the performance of the vehicles!

    The thing they really didn't like was the Beemer's active steering. Thankfully, I didn't order mine with this option. A milder objection was the 3-blinking lane changing stalk. I went deep into the bowels of iDrive (wearing my decontamination suit, of course) and changed the 3-blinker to a normal lane changer. Glad iDrive gives one the flexibility to customize the car to one's preferences.

    For anyone interested, two of the usual suspects brought up the rear: 2005 MB E500 and 2005
    Cadillac STS V8.
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    Hmmmmmm....that's why I gave you only a "GLIMMER OF CREDENCE" on Cobalt thing.
    (GLIMMER ...meaning to appear faintly.) a cursory, fleeting, quickly fading likeness comparison that basically falls short of the GT-R.)

    To bring us back to LPS cars I'm predicting that the remaining new 2005 RL's on the dealer lots are going to be gone in a very short period of time. Any predictions on how close to MSRP the 2006's will bring?
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