Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    Blue???...hey, you're too rich for my tastes...the best Johnny Walker I ever had was Gold, which, I believe, is 18 years old...
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    The Blue is stunningly smooth and satisfying. It is worth the $175.

    Regards,
    OW
  • og_oggilbyog_oggilby Member Posts: 27
    Thanks to everyone for their feedback! This is a great forum.

    After a lot of research and legwork, I ordered a BMW 535xi. It was the first car I test drove and nothing I tested after it put the same smile on my face. I was a bit hesitant about getting a car with the iDrive system, so I focused on it the second time I test drove the 535. I found that I really enjoyed the way the iDrive worked, but the menus are slightly confusing. That will just take a bit of time to learn, but shouldn't be the problem that reviewers make it out to be. It might have something to do with my being comfortable using computers.

    The actual testing and buying experience was more pleasant than I expected - for the most part. The BMW salesperson, and everyone I dealt with at BMW Gallery in Norwell, MA were great. I got a great price on the car and was happy with the trade-in amount they offered for my Camry. The salesperson actually talked me out of a few high priced options I was considering, and in hindsight, he was correct. Plus, I have heard good things about the BMW Galleries service department.

    The worst experience was at Herb Chambers Lexus - high pressure sales and they called me at home at least 5 times after I test drove the GS350. I got the feeling that they would tell you anything to make a sale.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    og, best of luck with your 535xi. It is a really great car and please let us know what you think about your driving experience.

    Regards and Happy Holidays,
    OW
  • og_oggilbyog_oggilby Member Posts: 27
    Thanks OW, and happy holidays to you and yours! I will keep the forum updated. This is the first time I have ordered a car - the waiting period (6-8 weeks) is a little bit like waiting for Christmas when I was a kid ;)
  • carnaughtcarnaught Desert SWMember Posts: 3,164
    Congrats on the car. You'll love it. My ordered car was in my grips within 6-7 weeks and was well worth waiting for.

    Best wishes, Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all !!
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,133
    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=124676

    "What this means to you: It still can't run with the big dogs, but..."

    Will it matter?
    2020 BMW M340i
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    "What this means to you: It still can't run with the big dogs, but..."

    Will it matter?


    I would say no. I think they've made it look worse and even more Accord like than before. That MDX grill does not help the front end. Unfortunately that's also probably what the next TL will look like from the front. This will help the RL better compete with the other big sixes in the class like the GS350 and the 535i, but it still is no match for the V8s. I also don't see fuel economy improving without an extra cog.
  • og_oggilbyog_oggilby Member Posts: 27
    I wish the RL's were more competitive with BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, and Audi. It is too bad they just keep turning out models that aren't that different from the Accord.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I wish the RL's were more competitive with BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, and Audi. It is too bad they just keep turning out models that aren't that different from the Accord.

    There's only so much you can do with a shared platform. The BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, and Audi are all riding on bespoke gear. Each offers several engine and drivetrain choices as well. Acura's "one size fits all" approach worked more for them when their cars were several thousand less than the competition. Now that they are approaching parity though, customers want more choice and Acura can't deliver.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ...customers want more choice and Acura can't deliver.

    They can deliver. They just refuse to do so. That has always been the Honda way. Try custom ordering one. The salesman will tapdance for an hour trying to "locate" one that meets your criteria (and actually send you on your way if he can't) instead of just ordering the dang thing.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaMember Posts: 8,212
    LG, didn't the old Legend and maybe the original RL have its own chassis and then the Accord was adapted to it later? I have never been quite sure about this.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    LG, didn't the old Legend and maybe the original RL have its own chassis and then the Accord was adapted to it later? I have never been quite sure about this.

    Good question. The original Legend wasn't related to the Accord, and I'm not entirely sure exactly how closely they relate currently. The Vigor/TL though was based directly on the Accord from day one, which is why new TLs always come a year after new Accords.
  • art234art234 Member Posts: 99
    The Vigor was indeed based on the European version of the Accord back in the early 90's. The first two generations of Legend were on their own platform. I had an '88 Legend Coupe (should have kept it!), and a '91 Legend sedan-first year of the new body...it was nice, but I believe Acura was all downhill from there.

    I drove the RL and GS before buying the M35X I have now. The GS was small inside and had limited trunk space, and I did it before the 350 came out. The RL was just lackluster, and in my opinion did not justify the cost.

    That said, the Lexus dealership here on Long Island was the most professional of all of them, and the Infiniti service is on par with a Nissan service center, not Lexus.

    Owning both a Lexus and Infiniti (wife has RX400h), there is a clear difference in service philosophy, but both cars are running well and relatively problem free.
  • anon3anon3 Member Posts: 147
    Funny... I owned a 1992 Acura Vigor GS. It was my first "luxury" car. It was also my last Acura because it was absolutely the most unreliable car that I've ever driven of any kind manufactured on any continent.

    This thread brings back memories of endless visits to the shop and of tow trucks hauling my Vigor from the middle lane of the highway in rush hour traffic because it happened to rain that morning, which stopped the Vigor dead in its tracks.

    And let's not forget that the Vigor put the torque in the term "torque steer" for front wheel drive vehicles. You easily could end up in a ditch on the side of the road if you didn't keep a firm grip on the steering wheel during hard acceleration by its inline 5 cylinder engine, which I believe made a whopping 176 hp if I recall correctly.

    Way to make a first impression, Acura.

    I realize that was 16 years ago and one of the first Japanese forays into the luxury market along with the Legend. But I do note that early model BMWs can be considered "classics" while early model Acuras are... junk?

    But my disgust with Acura lead me to buy my first German car and I've never looked back. So for that, I thank Acura (and so should BMW and Audi.)
  • jpstax1jpstax1 Member Posts: 197
    My daughter, who lives near Kalamazoo, MI, has always wanted to own a high-performance sedan. Several years ago, she had a chance to buy a used M-5, but bought a Bimmer convertible instead. Since the lease on her Bimmer is up June 1st, she is revisiting that muscle car itch again. She asked me to look around the Chicago area for one. I finally found a 2004 E55 AMG in the price range she wants at a dealership near my home. I went over and took it for a test drive. Needless to say, it ran like a rocketship. The car is in pristine condition with only 39,000 miles. I'd like to know if any E55 AMG owners could suggest looking for any particular problems with this vehicle. I know nothing about Mercedes-Benz cars except they're supposed to be well built, extremely reliable, and trouble free. Thanks.
  • bw45sportbw45sport Member Posts: 151
    I know nothing about Mercedes-Benz cars except they're supposed to be well built, extremely reliable, and trouble free.

    This used to be true. Starting in the later 90's, however, the reliability of Benz automobiles has suffered greatly.

    I had driven nothing but M-B's for nearly 25 years and found them to be totally reliable and built like tanks. That's why 50, 60, and 70 year old Benzes aren't all that rare. My first post '95 Benz was a 2000 CLK430 which had a few recurring electrical problems but none that totally soured me on the brand. The 2003 SL500 I purchased, however, was a different story. Truly an electrical nightmare which resulted in nearly every advanced system that M-B has implemented (ESP, ABS, SBS, ABC, etc) failing at least once during the time I drove the car. The problems were not limited just to electronics. The air conditioning failed, parts rattled, and many other "un-Mercedes" like things happened. I researched free CarFax reports online for 2003 SL's and found that a full 40% of those listings which included lines for service visits displayed problems like those found on my car. My frequent conversations with the service writers at my local dealership revealed that problems such as those I experienced were not limited to the SL model. Unfortunately, the problems were every bit as prevalent in AMG variants.

    I would highly recommend that you carefully examine the complete service records of the car you are interested in and also suggest that you check to see if an extended maintenance agreement is available for the car. To give you an idea of how outrageously expensive repairs can become, my service writer estimated that had my repairs not been under warranty, I would have racked up over $15,000 in repair charges before I ever made it to the 5,000 mile mark.
  • jpstax1jpstax1 Member Posts: 197
    [quote] I would highly recommend that you carefully examine the complete service records of the car you are interested in [unquote]

    I'm positive the warranty company will ask for the complete service records of the car before approving any extended maintenance agreement. My wife recently purchased an extended warranty for her 2000 Regal GS and the service manager told me he had to submit complete maintenance records to the warranty company.

    [quote] and also suggest that you check to see if an extended maintenance agreement is available for the car. [unquote]

    The salesman told me his dealership does offer extended warranties through a company that deals exclusively with Mercedes-Benz. He said that the premium is much lower if the used car has less than 40,000 original miles on it, which it does.

    Thank you for your prompt and informative reply.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I know nothing about Mercedes-Benz cars except they're supposed to be well built, extremely reliable, and trouble free.

    2002 - 2006 or so are the riskiest years for any used Mercedes product. Just absolutely horrendous quality that Mercedes is only now starting to recover from. Mercedes during that time had more lemon law buybacks than every other luxury car company combined.

    I would suggest considering an '04 or '05 Jaguar XJR. They are very quick, quite affordable, and unlike the E-class, reliable.
  • kgarykgary Member Posts: 180
    I know nothing about Mercedes-Benz cars except they're supposed to be well built, extremely reliable, and trouble free.

    They have not been any of those three things in about 15 years. Since around 2000 they have even been relegated to "junk bond" status.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaMember Posts: 8,212
    I would urge you to listen to the guys who just posted but, unfortunately, I can't think of an alternative vehicle for your daughter. A nice M3 would have to be better though.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    your ignorance really shows...for a sharp, powerful, race car, why didn't anyone mention the AMC Gremlin and Pacer???...obviously, you do not know much about performance/luxury cars...

    Then again, maybe you do...:):):):):)... ;) :blush: :P
  • asteinbergasteinberg Member Posts: 138
    Edmunds forums have been very helpful. Especially CarMan -- between him and the outstanding Internet depart at Pacific BMW in Glendale two years ago, I had a terrific, quick, rewarding on-target, deadline leasing experience. It was also fun learing more about leasing and realizing some errors I had made in past leases.
    I'm actually considering 535i, because it resolved some key 530i problems (somewhat better NAV w/integrated live traffic; memory buttons for radio and AM-FM-satellite band-switching; voice recognition that actually works). Mileage worse than Lexus GS350 with more value, but lease terms not so great, and BMW has free maintenance (w/brakes!). Still prefer NAV and other user friendly items on Lexus, Infiniti and other alternatives I'm exploring.
    As long as I can avoid my local dealer here in Calabasas, So Calif, I may give BMW another chance!
    Questions -- I'm also asking in other discussion groups--
    (1) Given the slowness of the auto market, how close to invoice does 530i go?
    (2) Does BMW offer financing deals, or just leasing deals?
    (3) Other than premium, sports, comfort access, navigation, sirius satellite radio, does anyone reading this recommend any options ...especially if they are perosonally familiar with them? If I go beyond the above, I must special order:
    (4) Are head-up display and night vision use mere toys or useful? (Seems odd that night vision visible only in NAV system.)
    (5) Is rear door side impact airbag safe, or a threat to kids?
    (6) power rear &manual side sunshades worth the money to keep the kids happy?
    (7) any other options truly worthwhile and worth the money?
    (8) Last time, I did 24 mo, cheaper per mo than 36. Now, 36 slightly higher. I still think 24 mo, to save buying 4 costly fun-flat tires.
    (8a) FINALLY -- does anyone know what the Money Factor will be for 535i for APRIL for 12000, 24mo, 36 mo, and, possibly for 15000. If I go BMW, I could buy/lease Mon/3-31 or wait until Tues/4-1, if MF different.
    (8b) IF I special order, due to other items, I'd use March MF or June MF, whichever is lower. My guess is June MF would be lower. Thoughts?
  • carnaughtcarnaught Desert SWMember Posts: 3,164
    Geez, you should consider posting the same message on only one or two boards instead of multiple ones.
  • kgarykgary Member Posts: 180
    Do you studder? Every forum I go to this morning I see the same message ;) All joking aside, I think you should move this post to the 5 series leasing forum, though it is probably there already. ;) Good luck.
  • jpstax1jpstax1 Member Posts: 197
    hey lexusguy-

    What do you think of the 2005 Jaguar XJ Series Super V8 sedan? I found this one at the same dealership as the '04 E55 AMG:

    http://www.thechicagotoystore.com/detail-2005-jaguar-xj_series-super_v8-2408508.- - html

    Be sure to scroll down the page to see its CarFax report and more photos. I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts on it.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    What do you think of the 2005 Jaguar XJ Series Super V8 sedan? I found this one at the same dealership as the '04 E55 AMG:

    That's a great car. The Super V8 is the top of the range XJ, and that car would've cost $90K when new in '05. Unlike the COMAND setup in the E55, the Jag's NAV system is a simple touch screen that works very well. You also get power reclining rear seats and a host of other luxury features that aren't in the E class. The handling won't be quite as good as the E55's but it will be more comfortable, and just as quick. It should also be very reliable, though you may want to get the extended warranty just in case.
  • palaltpalalt Member Posts: 25
    Reading these negative comments about Mercedes quality, I can't help but wonder if their purchase of Chrysler backfired. I think people believed Benz would improve Chrysler's quality (known to be among the worst) but maybe the opposite happened, with Chrysler's processes corrupting Benz.

    With the high cost of repairs on late model, high line cars, especially German made, I wouldn't think of owning one Off Warranty.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    The sad thing is, even Chrysler quality suffered (as did the content levels of their cars) during the Benz years, maybe even to a greater degree than the hit that momma Mercedes took.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,133
    The FX series has been upgraded for 2009, with both a larger & more powerful V8 and a 7 speed automatic trans.

    The estimated 2009 EPA numbers published by Infiniti show a +3 MPG highway improvement for the V8, compared to 2008.

    So – my ‘question de jour’:
    Will Infiniti also upgrade the M45 to an M50?
    With both the larger V8 ( 390 HP = yum )
    ** AND ** the 7 speed automatic trans.???

    My largest single issue ( and the primary reason that I did not buy one ) with the M45 was \ is the 5 speed automatic’s gearing. Resulting in generally good acceleration, but ( very ) high RPM at highway cruising speeds – and commensurately low MPG, from all reports.

    More HP & TQ would certainly be welcome ( by me ) but the opportunity to allow that very good acceleration combined with significantly improved highway fuel economy would REALLY interest me. The 7 speed’s ratios look like they will allow both.

    I see no compelling reason for Infiniti NOT to do this.

    Other opinions?

    - Ray
    Ready to move from Sports \ GT car to Sport Sedan . . .
    2020 BMW M340i
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    Agreed. My hunch (& I'm just speculating here) is that the 7-speed will become more widely available as Nissan ramps up production.
  • srynsryn Member Posts: 26
    From what I've read, Cadillac's latest navigation system & screen display seem to be among, if not THE, industry's best. High marks have also been given to the nav systems offered by Infiniti and Acura. Any opinions on how Audi's navigation system compares with these as to comprehensiveness of coverage, ease of use, screen size, graphics, accuracy, etc?

    Thanks.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    My largest single issue ( and the primary reason that I did not buy one ) with the M45 was \ is the 5 speed automatic’s gearing. Resulting in generally good acceleration, but ( very ) high RPM at highway cruising speeds – and commensurately low MPG, from all reports.

    Same here. I'd really like to see an M50, and I have to assume that with the new engine will come the new 7-speed autobox. I'm just not sure when its going to show up.
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Member Posts: 316
    I would be totally satisfied with an M35 with a 7 speed.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I would be totally satisfied with an M35 with a 7 speed.

    I'm willing to bet that when Infiniti does decide to update the M, the M35 will be updated to the M37. The M is currently using the 275hp "2005" version of the VQ35. Updating it with the 330hp VQ37HR would allow them to hit back at the 535i and the GS350.
  • bw45sportbw45sport Member Posts: 151
    The question of which car would be the next in Infiniti's lineup to utilize their new 7 speed was the first that entered my mind when I saw the introduction of the new FX50. My 2006 M45 Sport lease expires in June and I've been waffling in my decision on a follow up car. I took the opportunity earlier this week to speak to the owner of my local Infiniti dealership about this topic and he offered his opinion as to what he thinks will happen.

    Infiniti has not yet announced to their dealers what will be happening with the 2009 M's. The intriguing thing, however, is that it appears that the 2009 M's will not be hitting dealer lots until sometime this fall. This is of interest because for the past two years the new M's were arriving to dealers in a June time frame. The owner feels that the 2-4 month delay would seem to bode well for a fairly significant change to the M even though Infiniti is still in the refresh part of the product cycle. Infiniti registered the M50 label some time ago so the 5 liter engine has certainly been in their plans for this car. Mating the new 7 speed to this engine would make sense since it is the combination that is going into the FX50. I doubt that there will be an M50 without the 7 speed but it is certainly possible that a change to the 7 speed may happen even if Infiniti chooses to leave the 4.5 liter in for now.

    Also, it appears that there is a stronger possibility that the new Q that has been in development for the past 4 years may never make production. Infiniti will be attempting to accelerate their push to become a global brand and it appears that the only market for a car larger than the M would be in the United States. The local dealer has indicated that he and many other Infiniti dealers would prefer not to see a low volume vehicle such as the Q return to the lineup. So, if the dealers for the major market of the Q aren't excited about the prospects of a new Q then it's entirely possible that the M will be slotted as the "flagship" car for the Infiniti brand. If this proves to be true then I would imagine that any significant improvements in the Infiniti brand will find their way into the M's very quickly.

    I would easily be content buying or re-leasing my current M as it has proven to be a wonderful car. I really haven't found noise or gas mileage to be a big problem for me. But, the 7 speed certainly would enhance the M45 and I could see it being a tremendous improvement for the M35 or M37. Hopefully this is the direction Infiniti is heading with this product.
  • nebraskaguynebraskaguy Member Posts: 341
    From what I've read, Cadillac's latest navigation system & screen display seem to be among, if not THE, industry's best. High marks have also been given to the nav systems offered by Infiniti and Acura.

    I recently test drove the new CTS. I really disliked the Nav system. I found it very clunky to use. I have an Acura RL and haven't found a Nav system that compared, in my opinion.
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    My Audi nav is just o k---about three years old---I would think any of the Japanese would be better, but know first hand Lexus is good...Tony
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    The Cadillac system is on par with the Audi system which is good -- the Japanese systems, in some ways are superior.

    The Acura system is, according to most sources the best. Audis system even with voice command gets perhaps a B+.

    I am NOT unhappy with mine, but whenever I test one of the Infiniti or Acura products these days, I wonder why the Germans can't do better?

    Land Rover, too, is quite good.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Hey Mark, what do you think, S6 or Jag XF-R? I'm still torn.
  • kgarykgary Member Posts: 180
    The Cadilac system is about the same as my 05 A6 4.2. The Nav in my wife's Lexus is superior.
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    M50... sounds like the latest battle tank nomenclature ;)

    Would sure like to see Infiniti tone down the rear of the M to a more sleek design, it that's the right word. When I get behind one, the rear appears overly tall IMO. Have not driven the M, as I'm still attached to my 2003 e39SP, but friends who own them appear to like them.

    My experience in a G35 Coupe was positive, so assuming the M is a similarly well-sorted out vehicle.
  • james27james27 Member Posts: 433
    That height really helps the trunk volume...especially if you select the full-sized spare option.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Would sure like to see Infiniti tone down the rear of the M to a more sleek design, it that's the right word.

    Have you seen what the restyled '08 M looks like from the rear? It's quite an improvement over the original '06 design.

    image
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I don't know enough about the PERFORMANCE of these cars. I assume they are both very high performers.

    If you want a distinctive car, the Jag has to be the winner.

    If you want what has, historically, been a very formidable driver's car, well the German probably wins.

    I read a test report, long time ago, about the S6. It was very impressive. I have seen the Jag and it is drop dead gorgeous. That is probably not what you want to hear, however.

    My choice if money in any way could be made less of an object, would be an Audi S8 -- but again, this may short change the Jaguar since I have not read anything of substance about it.

    A phantom black S8 with the option boxes ticked off (what few there are) is the car that I would go for if I won the lottery.

    Get the one that "speaks" to whatever criteria are most important to you, that's my best advice.
  • james27james27 Member Posts: 433
    I just wish that more cars had the option to delete the sunroof. Depending on the car, it can take as much as 3" of headroom out of the car - that is vital when you are tall and long waisted. I also much prefer a mirror that has a double-jointed shaft so that you can not only move the mirror around the one swivel, you can move the whole thing both up and down...nothing more annoying than having your only driving position where your normal line-of-sight is looking though the stupid mirror - having to look around it so you can see what's over there is a safety hazard.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ... I also much prefer a mirror that has a double-jointed shaft...

    I have never seen such a setup in any vehicle. :confuse:
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,133
    My last Grand Prix had one.
    Worked very well.
    My Corvette does not have one - and ( combined with the
    low roof & steeply raked windshield ) it does block a fairly
    large area...

    - Ray
    Appreciating the articulation...
    2020 BMW M340i
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Member Posts: 316
    Your observation about the sunroof and mirror are RIGHT ON.

    I challenge anyone to try to buy an Acura, Audi, BMW, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes or other non-american luxury car without a sunroof.

    I ordered a Cadillac CTS with a "delete sunroof" on 2/29/08. It has not been built yet, but I am clinging to the hope that GM will build it.
  • warthogwarthog Member Posts: 216
    In the American South, a sunroof is a mixed blessing. Except during the evening, early am or late afternoon, the sun is way too bright and hot to leave the sunroof open. However, if the car is going to be parked in the sun for awhile, it's pretty nice to be able to set the sunroof to vent to keep down the pizza oven effect or just to open it briefly upon entering to let the hot air out.
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