Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Luxury Performance Sedans



  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Oh, no I didn't mean in any way that only BMW and Infiniti can offer a sporty premium car, only that they are the two extremes in the LPS segment.

    That the A6 won that Automobile comparo only proves what I stated in my first post. Some people want a car that doesn't constantly remind them of how sporty it is and/or can be.

    I drove the M45 Sport and I could see where some would tire of car that never puts the sporting badge away - ride, noise etc. For someone that likes this kinda tactile feedback, they've found their car.

    I do think the A6 is sportier than the E-Class to a degree. BTW, Mercedes now offers a true sport package for the E-Class.

    You did know that the A6 is like my second favorite in this class right? ;)

  • rich545rich545 Posts: 386
    Spain (Barcelona) and Belgium (Brussels) to be exact, and Audi is by far and away the most seen LPS in both places from what I saw. However, it isn't the A4 or A6, it's all A3's so I don't know if it counts in the category we're discussing here. I would say that I saw about and equal number of E's, 5's and A6's (which is to say relatively few of each). Given the size of the roads, parking spaces and the high gas prices it makes sense. I did see a few 1 Series BMWs, and even a few 7's which is surprising, but you can't throw a stick without hitting an A3. I think it would be interesting to get a breakdown of Audi's European sales because I'd be willing to bet that though they seem to beat Mercedes and BMW there, it's likely because of the A3.
  • docnukemdocnukem Posts: 485
    I'd like to go to Europe, but I have my LPS payments to make... :)
  • My two choices in this segment at the end of June were the A6 and the M35X (since there was no 530 or 525 "x" version and no manual transmissions anyway.)

    I did feel the A6 over the M35X was still "more Germanic" (Doh!) and I think (hope) you take my meaning, get my drift, etc -- for I certainly know that one is from Japan and one from Germany. Yet, I felt the M35X at the time was the most German-like (within my choices -- and even though I remain impressed to a degree with the STS w/AWD and the luxury & sport packages, but NOT at $64K and at the time the V6 AWD was NOT on the market) next to the Audi.

    I must add to not get into a "is not, is too" discussion the key TLA "IMO."

    I was happily going down the path with the thought process that the M35X was a worthy entrant into the LPS ranks even though perhaps 18 months ago I would have said ONLY German cars need apply if the "P" is capitalized in LPS.

    2005 has changed everything. I would not be regretting the acquisition of the M35X had the deal played out for that one to be the "higher perceived (by me) value."

    The 2005/2006 versions of all of these cars (OK virtually all) are quite similar. Style, perhaps some content (but even that can be manipulated to be "so close" to each other) and perhaps personal, subjective, preferences are far more compelling this (2005 MY) and 2006 MYears. But to this day, I do not feel the A6 takes much of a back seat to the M35X in terms of sportiness.

    Now, if there is a test of an A6 4.2 SLine vs an M45 w/sport (but I would contend the AWD would still sway me and since the A6 alone in these two offers AWD, well. . .) that certainly could demonstrate the M45's more sporting intentions. But, speaking as a majority of one, on the street the two cars would be both considered "sport-ING" and probably of similar composure and demeanor in normal "American" driving.

    I'd also like to see a test between an Acura RL, BMW 530xi, Chrysler 300C AWD, a Cadillac V8 STS/AWD, the M35X and the Lexus also w/AWD -- and, of course, the aforementioned SLine 4.2 A6 (each with as many sport option boxes ticked off as possible, too.) Now THAT would be entertainment (but I'd wager few would be swayed, or as the saying goes, ". . .many would be called, but few would answer. . .", "Man" -- circa 1970.)

    Yes I know the 6 cylinder versions might be at a power disadvantage but since at this time most of these guys DON'T offer AWD + V8 power, well we would have to let the chips fall where they may and just take the editor's remarks with our personal spins (intact, probably.)

    To those currently shopping: "what a great time to be doing so." Drive it like you live. :shades:
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    I was about to cruise to Europe but Cunard refused to find a place for my 545 on the

    How do they expect me to get around over there?
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Two words: "European Delivery" ;-)
  • BMW and Mercedes continue to offer ED and that looks like a wonderful way to get a new car and have a pretty cool European Vacation!

    I wonder if there is JD for the Infiniti and Lexus folks?
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Japan Delivery? Hmmm, now there's a thought. Let's see, hit a Sushi bar at Narita, spend a few hours getting to the JD Center and taking delivery of your new car, then spend the next week or so hitting every Eel Bar, Sushi Bar, and any other less mainstream eating establishments found along the way.

    Yup, I can think of lots of less enjoyable types of trips. ;-)

    The only fly in the ointment that I can think of is the whole driving on the wrong side of the road thing. I once drove a continental car in the U.K. and trust me, driving on the wrong side of the road is initially hard enough. Coupling that with having the steering wheel on the left side of the car simply compounds the issues. :-/

    Best Regards,
  • You are so right about the left hand drive -- er, never mind.

    I have driven on the Autobahn between Ingolstadt and Garmish anyway -- WHAT A RUSH!
  • calidavecalidave Posts: 156
    Volvo also offers european delivery. No question it is a great way to buy a car, as long as you don't need the car immediately (remember, you won't have the car while it is making its way across the Atlantic on a boat)

    I've heard good things about the DC factory delivery, but more good things about Volvo's.

    I've never heard of factory delivery for Japan.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I did the run from Munich to Garmish in my brand spankin' new 530i a couple of years back. Unfortunately as the car had a total of about 4 miles on it when I left the BMW ED Center, I had to take it rather easier than it sounds like you were driving. That being said, on the return trip to Munich (some 1,200 miles later), I made some seriously good time from Luxemburg to Munich via Stuttgart. ;-)

    Best Regards,


    The BMW ED program is nothing to sneeze at either. ;-)
  • calidavecalidave Posts: 156
    I think BMW also has a factory delivery program IN the U.S. (South Carolina?), that is supposed to be very cool. I think if you buy a Z (or maybe an M?) you get a free driving school, and word is the SoCarolina highway patrol "look the other way" when you cruise the foothills
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    The following was written today in the national Canadian newspaper called the National Post:

    BMW takes Nissan Canada to court over the letter M

    Nissan is benefitting from the high-end reputation carve out by BMW's M Series cars, something that will confuse purveyors of pricey automobilies, BMW argued in Ontario documents filed in August.

    BMW does not object to Infinitis equipped with its trademarked M35 and M45 labels. But BMW objects to a Nissan advertising campaign that featured commercials carrying the tagline "the M is coming" and showing cars with the letter next to a smaller Nissan logo.

    This behavior of BMW reeks with insecurity. I am kind of disappointed that BMW would behave in such a thin-skinned petty manner.

    Interestingly I heard Nissan was considering legal action against VW because of their use of the letter Q for their new Audi SUVs.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    There are good points about the South Carolina program (think driving school and track time) that in my mind would just about cancel out the German Autobahn driving experience. That having been said, the buyer through BMW's U.S. program does not benefit from the rather substantial discount available to those of us who opted to take deliver in Munich. In my case, I picked up a fairly loaded 530i (no Cold Weather Package [I hate sweaty buns], and no Automatic [I never learned how to drive one and my wife let me start now]) that had an M.S.R.P of $48K and change for something just north of $42K. Were it that my dealer was willing to cut the same "Invoice Plus" deal (he wasn't) on a domestic car I still would have paid three to four thousand more, not counting the extra taxes.

    Best Regards,
  • erickplerickpl Posts: 2,735
    The delivery center in Spartanburg is for the Z's and the X5's. They also have the M driving schools, and ALL kinds of driving schools (women, teens, schools for each type of car, etc).

    I've heard that owners of M's, 6's, and 7's, get invitations to Spartanburg for a driving school centered around their new car. From what I've found, it includes a road drive in the twisties of the area, some track time, some skid pad time, and meals/lodging. Sounds pretty cool to me. :)

    Going with LPS type cars, though these are paid for through the price of a car, it is cool to see automakers offering unique delivery options and events focussed on their vehicles. Helps with marketing big time!

  • . . .for a new Cadillac STS?

    I imagine some flush German going into his Baden Baden Caddy dealer and saying, "Ich würde Detroit Lieferung bitte mögen" (approximately, "I would like Detroit Delivery, please.")

    Ich spalte mich selbst auf ("I splam myself," literally -- "I crack myself up," approximately.)

    :surprise: DOH!
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    You can do the BMW Performance Center Delivery for ANY ordered BMW. You have to let them know in advance and have the car shipped to the Charleston, SC port and sent from there to Greenville. BMW will put you up for the night and give you a nice dinner, then give you a nice tour of the factory and a half-day of driving like wild on their track and off-road if you get an X3/X5.

    BMW Performance Center Delivery
  • erickplerickpl Posts: 2,735
    Thanks for the reminder on all models being available for delivery there. I had forgotten, but knew that the Z4 and X5 were made there and available for factory delivery there. :)

  • calidavecalidave Posts: 156
    I figured that lawsuit was only a matter of time, once so many of the automakers went to single-letter-based naming (instead of using real names)
  • I'm at 2500 RPM (in D, or 5th) going 70 MPH in the A6 w 5 speed tip. I would agree,using the tip, shifting from 4th to 5th really drops the RPM's at cruising speeds.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "This behavior of BMW reeks with insecurity"

    They are protecting their trademark and are doing the same thing any other company would do.

    However, when Microsoft sues their competitors for infrigement on trademarks, it's not insecurity but greed? :confuse
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    They are protecting their trademark and are doing the same thing any other company would do.

    So does BMW have a trademark on an alphabet? Maybe your right most companies would do the same.

    IMO the only threat to The BMW M series trademark is any shortfall in their performance/handling specs. Fortunately that is currently not happening and nobody will ever mix up a a Mazda M3 with a BMW M3 or a Infiniti M with a BMW M.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    They might have a trademark on "M" however. Typically one doesn't sue unless one believes there is some legal standing.
  • docnukemdocnukem Posts: 485
    I believe the letter M had been in use for some time before BMW got their hands on it. I didn't think you could trademark something if it had prior use.

    I don't think Ford has trademarks on A or T (as in "Model A").

    You don't see MB going after Jaguar with the S-class and S-type.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Speaking of which, does anyone know if there has been any news in the Nissan v. Audi "Q" case?
  • Similarly, Nissan has a trademark on the "Z".
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    And just how does that work with the 350Z and Z4? That gives me an idea. I think I'll trademark the Designman D.

    But I guess you are right. goes to the Nissan Z web page, and there is the ® after the Z.

    Curiously goes nowhere. Hmm, I'll have to go to Network Solutions to see if it's available.

  • aflcaflc Posts: 8
    "Today my A6 is special, my 29th and best .... but it is no longer (or shortly will no longer be) differentiated from the other LPS cars the way Audis used to be just one or two short years ago."

    Mark, I agree that the playing field is a bit more even now than in the past, but in terms of AWD, Audi still seems to be pretty much ahead of the curve.

    "While the Audi A6 traveled the 60 feet in our ice-rink test in a speedy 6.25 seconds, others were so pokey we wondered if they could beat even the rink's ice-resurfacing vehicle. (The result? BMW 0, Zamboni 1.)"

    I am not saying that if you want a BMW, for whatever reason, you are not justified in doing so. (It has been mentioned numerous times that a large factor in car buying is subjective). I was just pointing out that if AWD is a deal breaker, you would be settling for a suboptimal system in any car other than an Audi.

    Also, I think that the LPS segment is by definition a hybrid, tweener segment. One is trying to get both Luxury and Performance in one car. Most people that buy an LPS are not looking for true performance, but something that gives them a sense of sportiness, with all the creature comforts and other conveniences of a sedan. To get true performance you will have to go with a true sports car. And I think that is where you will find most of the stick shifts.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    As I said previously, the results of that test are basically useless. They used the OEM all-season tires on each car. Each automakers individual choice of tire could have a HUGE effect on its performance on ice, that would have nothing to do with the AWD system. That variable should have been elimiated for a truly objective test.
Sign In or Register to comment.