Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • m4mm4m Member Posts: 76
    ... and there is always another choice is to get rid of underpowered and overpriced E350 and get Infiniti M...
  • ghstudioghstudio Member Posts: 972
    My 2008 M35 lease is almost up....time to look for a new car. I lease because I never keep a car over 3 years (prefer 2) and the infiniti deals have been so good. Now it's time to find another car.

    My choices....The BMW 530, Jaguar XF premium, Cadillac CTS, Mercedes E350 (maybe diesel) or a 2011 M35. My wife has eliminated the Audi. The local Lexus dealer just doesn't deal so I eliminated them and I consider the 350 overpriced....and poor resale on GS350's. After 2 M35's, I'm ready for a change even though it will be the least expensive choice due to loyalty dollars and dealer pricing.

    The BMW is low on the list due to, of all things, the fixed seatbelt anchors on the door posts which make it undriveable by my 5' tall wife. The CTS has very short seat bottoms so they lack support of my legs. The Mercedes has less than a stellar service track record and everyone seems to have them around here....so I'm seriously considering a Jaguar XF( probably a premium).

    This doesn't seem to be a popular choice...I see few XF's on the road. Am I making a mistake? What am I missing.

    I should mention that the car will be used in southwest florida where there are no winding roads or hills.
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    I would suggest buick lacross but leasing domestics is usually a bad deal. Honda Accord exl is a great lease. MB E class are bad leases. Check out ridewithg.com for info across the board.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    You'll notice all the cars he mentioned are all luxury and RWD. I doubt a Lacrosse and definitely not an Accord will do for him. Now, ghstudio, seeing as how you've basically eliminated everything except the XF, I see either that or yet another M35 in your future.;) Probably the M35 considering how nice the upcoming one is.
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    A cxl awd lacross has a well appointed interior - leather/wood etc. The accord is not in the luxo class for sure but still nice. My suggestions were related to leasing. The accord is great -- infinity has some decent deals but much of the luxo crowd is bad lease city right now.
  • james27james27 Member Posts: 433
    The M37, due in about a month at the dealers, has some nice additions, but gets lower fuel economy and has less headroom, if either of those things are a concern to you. Not sure why your wife excluded the Audi, but if that's the case, you do what you have to. I've been looking at the new BMW GT series. Unfortuneately, for me anyway, it is only available now with the V-8. Now if you want 400hp and a gas guzzler tax, it is a nice ride. The I-6 version is due maybe about when the Infiniti versions show up and gets much better mileage and has sufficient power. The 530 and the E350 just don't have enough headroom for me. The new GT does. If you ever carry passengers, the rear-seat room is in the same league as the BMW 7-series, the seats recline, and you can option it to be very plush.
  • m4mm4m Member Posts: 76
    but gets lower fuel economy and has less headroom - not so according to official press release:

    PRESS RELEASE 2011 Infiniti M Sedan
    The 2011 Infiniti M will be offered in M37 and M56 model designations when it goes on sale at Infiniti retailers nationwide in spring 2010. The M37 features a refined 3.7-liter V6 engine with increased power and fuel economy (versus the previous generation M35’s 3.5-liter V6).
    The M56 also offers more power and better fuel economy from an all-new 5.6-liter V8 (versus the previous generation M45’s 4.5-liter V8). Both the M37 and M56 engines feature Infiniti’s advanced VVEL (Variable Valve Event & Lift) system and all models are equipped with a standard 7-speed automatic transmission.
    The M56 engine also utilizes Direct Injection Gasoline™ (DIG) technology. The M37 and M56 are available in both rear-wheel drive and with Infiniti’s Intelligent All-Wheel Drive system.
    A special Sport Package, offered on rear-wheel drive models only, offers 4-wheel Active Steer (4WAS), sport-tuned suspension, Sport Brakes and 20-inch wheels and tires.
    As for the car’s size, it is larger than the outgoing M, measuring roughly half an inch longer at 194.7 inches, 2-inches wider at 72.6 inches.
  • carolinabobcarolinabob Member Posts: 576
    E350 and Inifiniti M are not that far apart in price once you sit down and negotiate and M is noisier and rides rougher. Looked at both an E was far better buy.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaMember Posts: 8,212
    If you buy an E350 equipped as nicely as an Infiniti M, you would probably pay over $10,000. more. You can pay over $80 grand for an E class Mercedes.

    In addition to that, the M is rated near the top by Consumer Reports, second only to the Lexus LS. The 350 is waaay down the list. Very poor reliability compared to the M. CR puts them both in the same class (luxury sedans).

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • james27james27 Member Posts: 433
    Well, the specs are on their webstie, and while it may have more interior volume, the actual headroom is about 3/4" (39.7 vs 39.1) less in the driver's position http://www.infinitiusa.com/allnewm/index.html?intcmp=2011_m_micro.Promo.Homepage- .Home.P1#//specs-options. The article I read said the real-world mileage was less...we'll see when they actually show up. Their webpage shows 'TBD' for those figures, but people who've actually driven it say less than the outgoing. Maybe with the additional power, they were thrashing it more...we'll see.
  • sanjaysdcasanjaysdca Member Posts: 269
    Just configured a 350 and M on carsdirect
    E350 = 51K with P1, leather
    M = 41K with tech package

    so E is 10K more that is ~ 25% more than M's price of 41K
    With M you get engine with more oomph (303 hp vs 268 hp)
    Better reliability......drawback you will not have service advisors's number on speed dial

    Infact E350 finished last in car and driver 5 car comparision (A6, 5 series, M, Jag XF, and MB E class)..and in the comparision test 5 series and M were OLD MODELS - both are getting revamped this year
  • m4mm4m Member Posts: 76
    When I was on market for my first luxury car in this class and I could not belive MB charges extra for HID lights, heated front seats (cooled seats not even avail on E350), push button ignition and leather seats so I decided to go with Infiniti M.
    I think for 50K plus car those should be standard.

    However just like someone said on another forum: "I wouldn't switch MB or BMW to Lexus or Infiniti. They are totally different animals in automobile world. If you like to drive the car - you get MB or BMW, if you like options and gadgets - you get Lexus or Infiniti."

    It is a compromise, to give up something in order to get something else - choices, choices...
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    However just like someone said on another forum: "I wouldn't switch MB or BMW to Lexus or Infiniti. They are totally different animals in automobile world. If you like to drive the car - you get MB or BMW, if you like options and gadgets - you get Lexus or Infiniti."

    I don't agree with that at all. German /= automatic great drive, and Japanese /= automatic tech wonderland. Most of the recent Mercedes cars like the C and E classes have been described as dull and boring, with dead steering and lifeless handling. Good for cruising down the highway and that's it.

    The latest Audi S models are reaching par with BMW in terms of driving enjoyment, and their options and gadgets are better than anything Lexus or Infiniti have. The Infinitis I've driven have been very enjoyable. Certainly a G37 is a lot more fun than a C350, so that throws out that argument. Infiniti's current tech is getting pretty stale, but it looks like the M37 has a somewhat updated system.

    Lexus has absolutely nothing technology wise which can compare to the state of the art systems in the new A8. Several of their cars still come with cassette decks!

    Getting back to the original question of what to replace an '08 M35 with, the XF is a decent choice, but a serious reliability risk. I'm less impressed with the car than I was back when I bought my S6. The new leaders in this class are likely to be the new 5 series and the new M, with the new A6 likely joining this group next year. The E class is already an also ran.
  • bmlexusbmlexus Member Posts: 755
    Just wanted to know about what you're saying. :confuse:

    Japanese /= automatic tech wonderland But when u compared it to the Audi, you're saying Lexus has absolutely nothing technology wise which can compare to the state of the art systems in the new A8. Several of their cars still come with cassette decks :surprise: I would personally like the lexus to keep the cassette deck in the near future as well.
  • sanjaysdcasanjaysdca Member Posts: 269
    Lexusguy pretty much gave a sood summary

    Here are my thoughts:
    If you like driving you you get BMW, Audi S line, or Infiniti M (Depending on price point)
    If you want to show off you get MB or BMW or Jag....may be Lexus or Audi..infiniti is not up there yet & Acura is just wannabe
    If you want nice E350/lexus type driving experirnce and are not badge conscious you get Genesis at whole lot less price.

    Sanjay
  • vinrunvinrun Member Posts: 11
    I heard that the 2011 E class will have bigger engines. Over 300 hp for the E 350. Due out in September.
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    Could be the new DI motor... about time.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I heard that the 2011 E class will have bigger engines. Over 300 hp for the E 350. Due out in September.

    Probably the euro spec CGI engines finally making their way to these shores. Still, a few more horses are not going to turn the E class into a fun car. Winding Road recently described the E350 coupe as barely better to drive than a Camry.

    The new 535i is better looking than the E, has a much nicer interior than the E, and at least the initial opinions say its as good to drive as ever. I just don't see any reason to buy an E class.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Just wanted to know about what you're saying

    My point was that the idea that Infiniti and Lexus are the leaders in gadgets and technology is incorrect. Infiniti's systems haven't really changed since 2006, and the Lexus LS460 is using rather old and outdated NAV and tech systems as well.

    The tech leader at this point is Audi. There is no car currently in production that can match the technology packed into the A8.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaMember Posts: 8,212
    Yes, but the tech in the LS actually works ! They won't upgrade it until the new tech is perfect !

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • rockshocka1rockshocka1 Member Posts: 310
    Like the car parking itself? ;-)
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    The tech leader at this point is Audi. There is no car currently in production that can match the technology packed into the A8.

    And that makes me nervous, because high-end electronics aren't a traditional strong suit of German industry, the way machinery & chemicals are.

    I still wouldn't consider buying any German car with factory NAV. Then again, there's no reason to take the chance, when I can pick up an after market unit that's as good (if not better) for a fraction of the cost.
  • bastukbastuk Member Posts: 3
    I've been driving a '01 Accord EX-V6 for the past 8 years - it's been a great car - the only things I have done are the std maintenance items - brakes, tires, etc. I am starting to shop for "newer" used car with less miles as I have 151K miles on it. I am looking at moving up into a more luxury class - looking at Audi A4/A6, BMW 3 or 5 class or Acura TL. Today, I had a chance to drive all of these and in addition a MB. The dealer had a 04 Mercedes E320 and it was awesome to drive and seemed priced ok ($17K).

    As I have been doing research tonight, I continue to find the biggest complaints against the German cars being reliability and the high cost of repairs. Honestly, after reading the articles and reviews, I am reconsidering "moving up" and thinking about buying a newer Accord or just moving into the Acura class.

    A couple of questions -
    + Are the repair costs significantly higher with a German car vs Japanese? I have no baseline on my Accord since I have not had to do any repairs.
    + Is the reliability that much worse for the German cars?
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Are the repair costs significantly higher with a German car vs Japanese? I have no baseline on my Accord since I have not had to do any repairs.

    I don't think the cost of parts and labor are really all that much if any higher at a BMW or Mercedes dealer than they are at Acura or Lexus. The chance is quite a bit higher though that you will be seeing the service department more often, especially on German cars that are 6 years old or more. If you are planning on getting another 150K miles out of your new car, it would be wise to budget at least $2000 for maintenance and possible repairs, and $3-4K if you want to be on the safe side.

    You also have to be absolutely meticulous choosing your car. A fully documented and 100% spotless service history is a must. If the dealer can't provide that, walk away. If that's not something you can manage, you should probably stay away from ze Germans. Certified Pre-Owned programs are definitely a good idea, though you'll need to look for a car newer than '04 to get much benefit, and will need to spend more than $17K.

    If you want to keep things around $17K, you might want to consider the previous generation Lexus GS430 if you can manage to locate one. Unlike the Honda/Acura products all of the interior trim materials are real, the engine has plenty of power and torque, and that car was incredibly well built and incredibly reliable. It's not as good to drive as an A6 2.7T or 540i Sport, but 150K miles should be absolutely no sweat for it. The handling can be much improved with new springs and sway bars.

    The interior can't match the flowing style of the previous generation E or A6, but with tan leather at least I think it's much more luxurious than a previous gen Accord, and a lot more classic and less chintzy looking than the previous TL. An '03 or '04 example with low miles should go for around $15K or so.

    Another option is an '05 or '06 Infiniti G35, which go for around $18K. The interior wasn't great, but they are almost as good to drive as a 3 series sport, and are very reliable cars, just watch out for ones with brake wear issues.

    If you can go a bit above $20K, the '07 Infiniti G35 and '06 M35 are great choices.
  • vinrunvinrun Member Posts: 11
    I had a 2004 Mercedes C 320 4 matic for over 6 years. No problems for the first 5 years or so. Then my fuel pump went = $800. Something with the starter= $400. Something with the turning or grease wells, I forget what they were going to charge. The rims on the car were discolored or something. I had just over 60,000 miles on the car. I traded it in. It was very expensive to keep up after 5 years. Be careful buying a 2004 Mercedes.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaMember Posts: 8,212
    Very good advice from LG on the GS. If you can find one with relatively low miles you might also look at the Lexus LS 430 of the same generation. Simply great cars with a very elegant and simple interior of top notch materials. Not really a sport sedan, more on the luxury side, but they can be had for under 20 thousand and they are practically bullet proof.

    If you are thinking of something newer, I find the Hyundai Genesis to be an extremely interesting vehicle. Good luck.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,683
    You've already read pretty much everything with the above posts.

    Yes, an Acura will probably prove just as reliable ... but, frankly, just as boring, too.

    Lexus GS was a good suggestion. Yeah, still boring, but at least RWD and pretty powerful. And definitely luxo.

    Infiniti is also a good suggestion.

    Avoid Audi.

    Personally, I think bimmer is fine. Granted, I don't have alot of experience with newer ones, but my '87 with 120k miles is holding up great and repairs have been very inexpensive.

    Another suggestion I'd like to make is Volvo. An S60 2.5T is a pretty nice ride and pretty reliable ... not to mention inexpensive used.

    '21 Wrangler 4xE, '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 55-car history and counting!

  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Another suggestion I'd like to make is Volvo. An S60 2.5T is a pretty nice ride and pretty reliable ... not to mention inexpensive used.

    That's another good one. The early S60s had teething problems and lifeless steering, but most of the problems were corrected by '04, which is also the year that Volvo changed the steering and added some decent weighting and feel. The '05's got a fairly significant interior upgrade, so that's probably where I would start.

    The 2.5T AWD is probably the best choice, as most S60s don't have stability control. The rare T5 has all of the extra power at the top of the rev range and isn't really any faster. Avoid the S60R. The automatic version had its torque hugely reduced because the transmission couldn't handle the strain, so its nowhere near as fast as the horsepower would suggest, and its nowhere near as fun as the "R" would imply. If fun is a high priority, the G35 will smoke it. The S60R's active suspension is also just asking for a huge repair bill.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,683
    UNLESS you go with an '06 S60R, which has a 6-speed auto and full power available from the getgo. It is very nearly as fast as its manual counterpart.

    Yeah, the adjustable suspension is just one more thing to break ... but man is it fun! ;)

    BUT, all in all, I have to vote for the 2.5T FWD. The haldex AWD presents a common and expensive problem in failure of the angle gear.

    '21 Wrangler 4xE, '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 55-car history and counting!

  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    UNLESS you go with an '06 S60R, which has a 6-speed auto and full power available from the getgo. It is very nearly as fast as its manual counterpart.

    Interesting, I didn't know that Volvo upgraded the automatic for '06. Apparently they also upgraded the AWD system so that it actually sends some power to the rear wheels some of the time, though its still no Quattro or even ATTESSA-ETS. With the unrestrained engine it's competitive with the old G35, M35, A6 2.7T and faster than an E320, but would still lose a drag race to the GS430 or a 540i.

    For whatever reason, Volvos are always slower than their horsepower and torque numbers would suggest. This continues right up to the current XC60 and S80.

    The nice thing about the S60R is that most of them were ordered with the Dolby PL-II stereo, which is as rare in the rest of the S60 range as a Siberian tiger. The standard 100 watt, single disc setup kind of stinks, and isn't really befitting a luxury car. The downside is a truly mammoth turning circle, some 41 feet if I remember correctly.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,683
    For whatever reason, Volvos are always slower than their horsepower and torque numbers would suggest. This continues right up to the current XC60 and S80.

    I know what you mean, and it is interesting, but it can vary dramatically. For example, with my '98 T5 auto, I once managed a 6.1s 0-60 (according to my OBD scanner/dyno ... and with liberal brake-torquing). While not an unheard of time on the enthusiast boards, it is faster than any published time. Turbo/auto combos seem very inconsistent in any case. That was a full sec off the time I would get with no brake-torquing.

    The manual Rs could dip down right around the mid 5s range, I believe. I would consider that about right given the weight and AWD. Again, though, I think published numbers were not so quick, IIRC.

    I'm not sure which stereo is in my '01. I know it is the middle model of the 3 offered, but not sure what that means. It is OK. Still one of the better stock systems I've ever had, but I'm not as impressed with it as the system in my '98 ... which doesn't make much sense to me. Maybe it is the effect of it being a wagon.

    '21 Wrangler 4xE, '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 55-car history and counting!

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Having almost any repair on a German (or European car, generally) will give new meaning to the words: "Breathtakingly expensive!" Of course, driving most German cars is addictive.

    29 Audis, 3 BMW's at last count (between my wife and me).

    I keep thinking, Infiniti is the Japanese BMW.

    Well, we all know what Watty Piper writes. . . .
  • carolinabobcarolinabob Member Posts: 576
    Any European car is going to be very expensive to maintain. For instance, the normal three year maintenance on my 2010 E350 is almost $1,000 at today's prices.
    One thing you can do is check out the service for the first 100,000 miles and then call dealer to see what they will charge. Parts are probably going to cost much more down the road on European than on Japanese.
    Japanese cars are very much cheaper to maintain. But if you go to "luxury" brands, you will pay for the fancy showrooms, waiting rooms, special treatment and so forth. Acura probably costs lot less than Lexus.
    The Lexus GS is not well recommended by many, so you might want to research it throughly on several sites and drive it for a good long test.
    The LS430 is a a top rated car in luxury and reliability, but they do not come cheap. I know because I looked at several.
    Good luck.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,683
    Maybe I'm being dense, but can anyone tell me why their Euro Luxo car is more expensive to "maintain" than a Japanese car, for example?

    Let me take, for instance, my volvo vs my mazda vs my nissan. All get 4k-mile oil changes. OK, in this instance, the volvo is a tad pricier because it uses 7 qts of oil vs the 5 in each of the other 2 vehicles. All have timing belts. All have brakes pads, struts, tires, etc, etc. All those things, for the most part, wear out at similar intervals and all cost the same across all vehicles. So what am I missing concerning this "more expensive maintenance"?

    '21 Wrangler 4xE, '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 55-car history and counting!

  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    I have the exact same frame of mind re service costs. I always get a free inspection at every oil change. Covers all of the imortant stuff but doesn't include a computer scan. If you just get the oil changed at regular intervals and the car runs fine, I'm happy. Change the coolant and trans fluid as required and check the brakes at tire rotations. Will the MB fall apart without the deluxe inspection? I doubt it. The drivetrain is solid. I think it's a part of the premium car mystique that promotes expensive maintenance that people have come to expect. Now a breakdown could be pricey because parts are more but parts for new cars across the board are expensive. They don't fail as often so there is no mass production to bring down costs. Imo.
  • jensadjensad Member Posts: 388
    Before I purchased my then new 08 Acura RL, I drove a Lexus GS 600 (I think that was the label) and then I noted the cost of labor with each dealer.

    The Lexus rate per hour was $ 220, while the Acura rate was $ 110. And since I know very little today about working on cars, I took that rate per hour into consideration. I am one of the 50s generation and I used to work on Chev but not now.

    Good luck to all and stay safe.

    jensad
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The Lexus rate per hour was $ 220, while the Acura rate was $ 110.

    Wow! I'm not sure what dealer that was, but there are some real crooks running it. $220 an hour for a Lexus is just insane pricing. The highest I've ever seen at an Audi dealer is $160, and I pay a lot less than that.
  • james27james27 Member Posts: 433
    Having lived in Germany (a long time ago!), and seeing what the inspection covered to keep the car on the road and renew the license, you appreciate what the scheduled maintenance is trying to do - it is trying to forestall a catastrophic failure of some component when whizzing down the autobahn at over 100mph. Their safety inspection makes ours in the states look like a walk in the park - it is obsessively complete, and may call for replacements (and at least checks) on things that wouldn't be as big a deal here in the USA at our lower speeds. The goal of the inspection/service appointments is to try to ensure the car is still operating as new and replace things before they fail or degrade performance.
  • jensadjensad Member Posts: 388
    The Lexus dealer was on Concord Ca while the Acura dealer was just down the block. I was floored at the Lexuscharge per hour, and I never went back to look again at their cars. Plus the Acura dealer discounted quite a bit for the RL, and I have had no problems with it so far.

    Good luck to all and stay safe.

    jensad
  • golfhardgolfhard Member Posts: 16
    ny thoughts about waiting for the new 2011 A6 vs 2010
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    ny thoughts about waiting for the new 2011 A6 vs 2010

    I would definitely suggest that you wait for the C7 car. While I'm sure the 3.0T engine will just carry over, the rest of the car is going to be significantly improved. The new platform means better weight distribution, and with Drive Select and the S4's rear diff, handling should be much better. Audi also really has to deliver on the interior if they want to keep up with the 5 and M.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaMember Posts: 8,212
    Hey, wait a minute. I thought the 2010 A6 was already perfect !! :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • carolinabobcarolinabob Member Posts: 576
    I have a 2010 E350 and having had a V6 Camry, I can assure you the E is a lot more fun to drive.
    For the first time in 20 years, I had a stranger come up to me and tell me she thought my car is "the most beautiful car I have ever seen." Agree with her 100%.
    The 2010 E class is far better looking than the 535, exterior and interior and nicer too IMO. Of course, both of these are a matter of personal taste.
    In reality the E Class and BMW 5 series are different types of cars so it is really hard to compare them. Of course, the new 5 is supposed to be nicer and more comfortable than the current model.
  • carolinabobcarolinabob Member Posts: 576
    I assume that M-B dealer will do a much more thorough inspection on my E350 than the Toyota dealer does when I get RAV's oil & filter changes there. $30.00 vs. $250.00
    Of course, a thorough inspection may also enable the dealer to sell more parts and services. Got a cheap oil change deal on my Ford pick-up at a Ford dealer and they came back with a list of recommended services for about $600. Didn't get any of them and that was two years ago.
    However, it is still very expensive compared to the non-prestige makes, but that is part of what you are paying for. Somebody has to pay for the free loaner cars, the very nice waiting areas, and all the kid glove treatment. Also, many of the prestige dealers only sell the one make, so they have no large volume of other cars to cushion their costs. That is one reason why Hyundai has not spun off the Genesis and Equus as a separate brand.
    BTW, S.C. no longer requires auto inspections to renew licenses-and you can tell by the number of cars with one or no brake lights or only one headlight.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    In reality the E Class and BMW 5 series are different types of cars so it is really hard to compare them. Of course, the new 5 is supposed to be nicer and more comfortable than the current model.

    Styling is of course a matter of personal taste. I just don't like the blocky, '80s look that Mercedes is going with lately. I had a Mercedes in the '80s, and I don't need a new '80s Mercedes. I also don't like the column shift, or that Mercedes thinks the clock is as important as the rev counter.

    When the current 5 made its debut in '04, I didn't like the exterior or interior styling at all. Eventually I got used to the styling, and at this point I think the V8 model with the deeper front air dam isn't too bad, at least from the front. I still don't like the rest of it. When BMW refreshed the 5 a couple of years ago they made significant improvements to the interior, making it about equal with the current A6 IMO.

    The 2011 5 appears to be significantly improved in most areas. The styling is a bit anonymous, but its not off putting. The interior has the same look that started with the X5, and I think it's just better than the E-class in every way. The C7 A6 is still a question mark, but IMO the 2011 M and 2011 5 are the current interior leaders in the mid luxury segment.

    image

    Full size interior photo
  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaMember Posts: 11,816
    I've owned 80's Mercedes Benz Vehicles, E and S class, and believe me, my new 2010 E350 with Prem 1 pkg. and sport wheels (AMG) is far superior to my previous Mercedes Benz Vehicles in looks as well as performance. I traded my 08 BMW 535i for the new Benz. I had so much trouble with my BMW, I was disgusted. BMW replaced my 08 with an identical vehicle three months after I bought it, and I had the same exact problems with the replacement vehicle.

    In terms of technology, the Benz is far superior in every way, from Navigation to voice activation, to the BMW. In terms of cost, the Benz is 4000 dollars less than a comparably equipped BMW 535i. My car listed for 54,850, while the 535i was over 60,000 dollars. I had to add rear sunshade, Logic 7 sound system, HD radio, Navigation, sport package, etc., all of which my Benz had.

    The major problems I had with the BMW were the turbos on both cars and "high battery drain" whenever it rained, and this was on both cars as well. BMW can keep their 5 series, I'll take the MB over any of them.

    2021 Genesis G90

  • sanjaysdcasanjaysdca Member Posts: 269
    Looks and performance are very personal.
    I too am now looking for a mid size car and I am leaning towards
    Infiniti M...will wait till 2011 debut to make decision.

    If I were to buy a "non sporty" model then I would have tough time in justifying buying E350 over Genesis.

    In any event there seems to be some contradiction in your posts in two boards. I thought you traded E-class for a newer E-class
    May be I misread in that case my apologies

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.eea6b46/580
  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaMember Posts: 11,816
    No, you were correct. I had 2 2008 BMW's, one I bought, and one the manufacturer gave me as a replacement. I traded the last BMW in for 2009 MB E350 sport, then traded that for an 2010. So you were correct, I made an error.

    Believe it or not, I test drove the Genesis about 2 months ago. Although it was responsive, etc., I found it to be "tinny" compared with German Cars. I found the technology to be acceptable, however I strongly urge you to Test Drive an E350 with sport package and Premium 1 package. I think you'll find the ride sporty, yet confident, which I did not find in the Genesis. Also, with Mercedes Benz Dealers almost giving these away (I got mine for 5500 under sticker, or 2000 under invoice, you will find the Benz will hold its value longer. The only drawback on Mercedes is the cost of maintaining it. It costs 300 dollars once each year for oil change (they only recommend once a year or 10K miles), but the cost of brake replacement, etc., about 900 to 1000, which must be done once every 20,000 miles, from my experiences.

    Whatever you choose, good luck.

    2021 Genesis G90

  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaMember Posts: 11,816
    One more thing, I was a sales manager at the largest Infiniti Dealership in the World for several years. I found the M35 (which will become athe M37) one of the best cars on the road for the money. The only reason I bought a Mercedes was due to the late introduction in April/May, and the fact that the new M will look like a stretched G37 sedan, not my taste. The M will cost you about the same as a new Mercedes E350. Like a said, take a good look at both cars.

    2021 Genesis G90

  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,132
    "The major problems I had with the BMW were the turbos on both cars and "high battery drain" whenever it rained, and this was on both cars as well. BMW can keep their 5 series, I'll take the MB over any of them. "

    ... and no HPFP failure[s] ?
    Interesting...
    - Ray
    Looking at BMWs with turbos...
    2020 BMW M340i
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