Nippon - I don't think that configuration is the Tacoma that is selling well. If you compared the number of loaded Tacomas sold to the number of Ridgelines, they'd probably be much more even. The Taco sells much larger volume because a) it's prettier b) it comes in a dozen configurations c) Toyota upped their fleet sales for October and d) Toyota uses incentives more generously than Honda and they deflate the price far below MSRP.
All that in addition to the genuine truckiness you mentioned.
I like the body kit, I'll even say I like the spoiler, but did anyone take a peek inside?
Wait...don't look. It might hurt your eyes.
Those orange seats have gotta go. I know SEMA is about attracting attention, but that's a bit much even for SEMA.
On the other hand, did you see the two Ridgelines they have up there? I like some of the blacked-out trim on one of them, but there's one that's set up for outdoors that looks pretty good (minus some orange accents inside). It looks more "butch" and might help it fit in better in the pickup segment.
The new Civic commercial that has the coupe bouncing off the tops of buildings. In the background they play "Galang" by artist M.I.A., a song I like and iTunes featured a while ago in their free downloads section.
Any how, the reason I mention it is because in the very song, she says "BMW" in one of the verses. It's pretty funny.
I wonder if they edit it for the (long) commercial because otherwise they're paying to have BMW played across the country.
you are in a world of hurt if your best bet fro business survival is getting into bed with GM!
Honda seems to be doing well enough financially, and sales are keeping pace. Of course, like everyone else, they need to keep producing top products (the Civic seems to be a hit). If they are going to have any misses, they need to be in the niche end (aka the ridgeline).
If Honda really needs to merge with a partner that could lead to real synergy, how about BMW? Think of how nicely the 2 product lines merge there (not much overlap). Honda can get a RWD platform, and BMW can learn something about QA.
GM would just slap an Accord badge on a facelifted Malibu. Of course, it would immediately win a comparison test in the major magazines..
I suspect that might be the case for Audi's MMI also. I took a road trip up to PA with a buddy who had an S4 cabrio (nice car, but MMI stinks), and it could not find a Subaru dealer that was hosting the debut of the 2006 WRX and a Meet-n-Greet with WRC driver Petter Solberg.
Best we could do was find the road, and then ask for directions at a gas station once we were in the town.
And here I thought it was just a conspiracy theory! I'm not just paranoid, they are following me! :surprise:
You must be a driver/editor at Motor Trend. You are correct that Honda doesn't want what's good for em'. ......... That's ok, because the rumor of GM/Toyota merger would put Honda into doing alot more R&D in the Motorcycle industry. :P
if your dream does come true, it won't be a merger, it will be a takeover. And all the union jobs you dream of having will also be flushed down the toilet.
The All-Terrain looks tough and rugged, but Honda didn't make significant enough functional enhancements to transform it into a real off-roader.
Given that 90% of the people who buy off-roaders never leave the pavement, this might not be a problem.
The Street Sport is another example of all show, no go. They gave it a great bling bling make-over, but it needs a good deal more power before it could be called a sport truck.
But, once again, most of the people who mod their Civics go for the decals and wings before they figure out how to actually enhance the performance.
Why would they be flushed down the toilet ???? If Toyota did buy out GM, they would also get the Union Contracts. Just because a company buys another company, doesn't make the existing contract void. you better do some reasearch on how the labor laws work in this country.
Now, I don't like any tall vehicle, but most of them don't look any better lowered. The Ridgeline does; it reduces the effect of the weird profile. For the Ridgeline's purpose I'm sure a few inches of lowering would be just fine anyway.
The Street Sport is more typical of Toyota - making an all-show, no-go version of an existing model. This model needs WAY more engine to make this work. Looks nice though.
I like the All-Terrain, but clearly once again this would be to improve the looks, lots of show and precious little go (people are not going to be offroading in a "truck" with 90/10 AWD, even if they DO put A/T tires on it).
These two models perhaps demonstrate more than anything that someone somewhere high up is aware they made the Ridge quite UGLY!. :-P
As for Civic, there has suddenly been an explosion onto the roads around me of '06 Civics. People like this model a lot, it would seem.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
to hear these words come out of my mouth (well, okay, the internet equivalent of that :P ) but I actually kinda like that Street Sport version! I think the main reason is the blackout trim. And interestingly, even the blingy 22" rims don't look too bad on the truck. I think they actually complement its proportions nicely.
Also, I really like that Canadian CSX, especially from the front. I think they should put a headlight treatment like that on the Accord. I just think that most cars look better when the top of the headlights is about even with the top of the grille, instead of that "Deer in the Headlights"/"Over-the-hill-actress-with-one-facelift-too-many" look that many cars go for these days.
The only place a Ridgeline looks good is in the parking space next to an Aztec. No one I know has anything good to say about the Ridge's styling. If this had been a Pontiac design, the styling would have been criticized up one side and down the other. Look at the articles found in MT, C&D, R&T; very little mention of the styling can be found, other than a comparison to a Frigidaire.
"'The only place a Ridgeline looks good is in the parking space next to an Aztec. No one I know has anything good to say about the Ridge's styling. If this had been a Pontiac design, the styling would have been criticized up one side and down the other. Look at the articles found in MT, C&D, R&T; very little mention of the styling can be found, other than a comparison to a Frigidaire."
I agree 100 percent. The last of the Aztecs with the 5 spoke wheels and body colored side cladding were not bad looking. The Ridgeline along with being ugly, is built like a car cannot withstand the abuses that a truck should. The long term tester on this site was taken to a mild off road trail by an editior and all 4 STRUTS blew out. Why are there struts on a pickup? A Civic maybe...
I hope Honda's run is up and people will return to buying domestic cars that are high in quality and help our economy. Unfortunately many people are absolutely convinced that a Civic is somehow better than a Cobalt, Focus or even Neon which are not built by a faceless Japanese corporation.
Love the Street concept! Not really in the crowd who does that sort of thing to a vehicle... but it does look pretty mean.
"I hope Honda's run is up and people will return to buying domestic cars that are high in quality and help our economy. Unfortunately many people are absolutely convinced that a Civic is somehow better than a Cobalt, Focus or even Neon which are not built by a faceless Japanese corporation."
People will buy domestic if the product is competitive in the first place. By your accounts they are, by mine? They have a ways to go. I'll give Ford a chance, I'll give DMC a chance. You couldn't give me a Garbage Motors product that I wouldn't want to see roll off a cliff... :lemon:
May not get many takers for your argument in this forum...
I mean, I've seen Hummers and Jeeps with busted axles. The drivers just push them too far. This doesn't mean much. A skilled driver would have stopped after the first strut failed.
We can safely conclude that the driver was a complete moron.
We can't conclude anything at all about the Ridgeline in that article, given who was behind the wheel.
Proof a Hummer is no more capable than the person driving it:
"Prerunner" is a racing reference. They're trucks that run race courses before the race (duh).
In truck racing, 2wd is pretty common even among the race trucks (for lightness). Prerunner trucks get the same off-road suspension that they do, but the engines are weaker and more durable. If they would need 4x4 to get through a course, then the course isn't really appropriate for those races.
hey, thanks for the info, I didn't know that. I stand by my original comment though - it looks the part of an offroad truck, but without the 4WD would get stranded lots of places offroaders might like to go. In fact, there was a magazine article on that very subject and model about a year ago, where they got stranded all over the place, even in places where AWD, car-based models managed to get through. When they asked Toyota "what's up wid dat?", Toyota merely commented that the PreRunner is not really designed to go offroad. OK THEN, SO WHY CALL IT THE "TRD OFFROAD PACKAGE"?
Same thing with the Ridgeline "ALL TERRAIN". I can hear Honda now..."well not ALL terrain, but maybe SOME MORE than the base model"...
Hehehe. :-P
As for the poster above who thinks Cobalts and Focuses are equal in every measure to a Civic, well, I would just say think again. Really. The conspiracy would have to be pretty far-reaching in the media...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
nwng: could be, or it could be a troll with a hit-and-run post that was totally bogus. That seems more likely to me given the tone of the rest of the post.
It just sounds incredibly inlikely. That's why I asked for a link (still waiting...).
Automakers that have failed here:
Daihatsu Daewoo Plymouth Oldsmobile Alfa Romeo Fiat Studebaker Edsel Yugo
That's just for starters. A couple of those failed completely, too.
to be fair, some of those were just brand names (Plymouth, Edsel, Olds), not Automakers. And some of the others just pulled back from the US market but still exist in the rest of the world.
Stude, now that one really went bust I guess. Daewoo may not exist any more either, after being absorbed into GM somehow. Not sure if Yugo still exists, but I doubt it.
And Daewoo died in this decade. They went completely bankrupt. GM bought some left over pieces, mostly the assembly lines, and the venture is now called GM-DAT. But they sure did die.
So there are recent examples from every decade of a an automaker's run, running out.
to imply that perhaps the era that Honda was put on a pedestal and could never do any wrong was coming to a close, not that they were going out of business. So IMO the title is appropriate.
that is exactly what I thought too, just was too lazy to post it when I saw the earlier comments.
My experience with my RSX: it was the most fun car I have ever owned, I think, just fantastic, also easy on gas. It also had intermittent problems with the electronic HVAC controls and a driver's window that sometimes wouldn't go down, sometimes hit a phantom obstacle on the auto-up and would drop back down. This mirrors every experience I have ever had with Hondas - near-perfect execution of the mechanicals (sweet engine, best manual transmissions in the biz, just-right suspension) paired with controls (usually electronics) that are less than perfect, and systematically break down a little at a time. The only difference with this one was the early age at which these problems began. I traded it as much as anything else because I can't hang onto cars for very long before I get the itch to try something different, but I do feel a car should be out of warranty before you start to have niggling problems, better yet should be over 100K miles.
In the sense that andre is describing, I DO feel that Honda's run is running out. It is losing its edge in the struggle to be the mainstream alternative to Toyota and boost sales volumes. It is still a sweet choice and a better one than many other brands, but the edge it had a decade or two ago has faded.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
do you think honda has not clamp down on electronics as good as yota? My friends and I had hondas that went to 150k with no major problem except things like starters, crack switches, power windows froze... start to appear after the 100k mark. But the engine and tranny(sticks, baby) are in top shape after all those miles.
However, my other friends with high mileage yotas didn't even have those little niggling problems even after 140k. Granted, those were 140k dreadfully boring miles.
One thing is that cars have become a whole lot more complex, so there are many more things to break than there were 10-15 years ago.
In '91 all I wanted was A/C and a cassette player!
Today, you have power windows with one-touch up/down, locks, mirrors, auto climate control, power moonroof, power seats, 6 CD changers, ABS, VSC, AWD, heated seats, etc.
Look at your car closely, are there not at least 15 items that were not there 15 years ago?
The other thing is competitive pressures from folks with lower costs like Hyundai.
I don't necessarily think Toyota is handling this any differently than Honda, FWIW.
I know that plenty of manufacturers have created vehicles that are all-show no-go. And this is especially true in the category of off-roaders. But I don't think it's a good move for Honda in this case. Off-road capability a "third rail" issue for Honda. The Ridgeline wasn't built for it, and they should leave it alone. At least until the truck earns a reputation for the things which it DOES do well.
might also be parts outsourcing. I don't know if this is true or not, but I've heard that Honda and Chrysler use the same air conditioning compressors. And even years ago, my mechanic told me that the lightweight starter on my '89 Gran Fury was the same part that went on 4-cyl Honda Accords. And that's why they failed so often! Now that's not to say that it's an inferior part (although the crappy rebuilds often are). It's just that you can't expect a starter designed for a lightweight 4-cyl engine to reliably and consistently turn over a 318 cop motor! BAD Chrysler! :mad:
Comments
Honda is really pushing that Si.
Nippon - I don't think that configuration is the Tacoma that is selling well. If you compared the number of loaded Tacomas sold to the number of Ridgelines, they'd probably be much more even. The Taco sells much larger volume because a) it's prettier b) it comes in a dozen configurations c) Toyota upped their fleet sales for October and d) Toyota uses incentives more generously than Honda and they deflate the price far below MSRP.
All that in addition to the genuine truckiness you mentioned.
Wait...don't look. It might hurt your eyes.
Those orange seats have gotta go. I know SEMA is about attracting attention, but that's a bit much even for SEMA.
On the other hand, did you see the two Ridgelines they have up there? I like some of the blacked-out trim on one of them, but there's one that's set up for outdoors that looks pretty good (minus some orange accents inside). It looks more "butch" and might help it fit in better in the pickup segment.
-juice
Thanks.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Sometimes it's had to keep track of the online shorthand
http://www.netlingo.com/emailsh.cfm
The new Civic commercial that has the coupe bouncing off the tops of buildings. In the background they play "Galang" by artist M.I.A., a song I like and iTunes featured a while ago in their free downloads section.
Any how, the reason I mention it is because in the very song, she says "BMW" in one of the verses. It's pretty funny.
I wonder if they edit it for the (long) commercial because otherwise they're paying to have BMW played across the country.
Anyone else catch that?
-juice
Acura is holding Honda togeather. They just stink in customer service. I know this first hand !
They are not nearly as well off as Toyota. Honda's best bet would be to merge with GM
Honda seems to be doing well enough financially, and sales are keeping pace. Of course, like everyone else, they need to keep producing top products (the Civic seems to be a hit). If they are going to have any misses, they need to be in the niche end (aka the ridgeline).
If Honda really needs to merge with a partner that could lead to real synergy, how about BMW? Think of how nicely the 2 product lines merge there (not much overlap). Honda can get a RWD platform, and BMW can learn something about QA.
GM would just slap an Accord badge on a facelifted Malibu. Of course, it would immediately win a comparison test in the major magazines..
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I suspect that might be the case for Audi's MMI also. I took a road trip up to PA with a buddy who had an S4 cabrio (nice car, but MMI stinks), and it could not find a Subaru dealer that was hosting the debut of the 2006 WRX and a Meet-n-Greet with WRC driver Petter Solberg.
Best we could do was find the road, and then ask for directions at a gas station once we were in the town.
And here I thought it was just a conspiracy theory! I'm not just paranoid, they are following me! :surprise:
-juice
I do see toyota buying opel though.
http://blogs.edmunds.com/.ee8b9d9
The All-Terrain is a bit more like the Avalanche, but I like the suspension lift and the tires. Definitely looks tougher.
Street Sport is all blacked out. I like some of the blacked out trim, but the flares may be a bit much.
So I'd vote for the All-Terrain model, maybe with some of those items as a package.
-juice
Given that 90% of the people who buy off-roaders never leave the pavement, this might not be a problem.
The Street Sport is another example of all show, no go. They gave it a great bling bling make-over, but it needs a good deal more power before it could be called a sport truck.
But, once again, most of the people who mod their Civics go for the decals and wings before they figure out how to actually enhance the performance.
Toss up. I'd rather there was an option C.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
-juice
Now, I don't like any tall vehicle, but most of them don't look any better lowered. The Ridgeline does; it reduces the effect of the weird profile. For the Ridgeline's purpose I'm sure a few inches of lowering would be just fine anyway.
I like the All-Terrain, but clearly once again this would be to improve the looks, lots of show and precious little go (people are not going to be offroading in a "truck" with 90/10 AWD, even if they DO put A/T tires on it).
These two models perhaps demonstrate more than anything that someone somewhere high up is aware they made the Ridge quite UGLY!. :-P
As for Civic, there has suddenly been an explosion onto the roads around me of '06 Civics. People like this model a lot, it would seem.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
-juice
It's the Canada-only Acura CSX, a Civic clone.
Since it's not sold here, they should have just badged it as the normal Civic. I think it looks a whole lot better.
-juice
The back looks slightly better, but that front is a whole lot nicer.
-juice
I've seen the back somewhere else, but a while ago
Also, I really like that Canadian CSX, especially from the front. I think they should put a headlight treatment like that on the Accord. I just think that most cars look better when the top of the headlights is about even with the top of the grille, instead of that "Deer in the Headlights"/"Over-the-hill-actress-with-one-facelift-too-many" look that many cars go for these days.
Which shall henceforth be known in internet lingo as...
DITH/OTHAWOFTM
Edge
I agree 100 percent. The last of the Aztecs with the 5 spoke wheels and body colored side cladding were not bad looking. The Ridgeline along with being ugly, is built like a car cannot withstand the abuses that a truck should. The long term tester on this site was taken to a mild off road trail by an editior and all 4 STRUTS blew out. Why are there struts on a pickup? A Civic maybe...
I hope Honda's run is up and people will return to buying domestic cars that are high in quality and help our economy. Unfortunately many people are absolutely convinced that a Civic is somehow better than a Cobalt, Focus or even Neon which are not built by a faceless Japanese corporation.
"I hope Honda's run is up and people will return to buying domestic cars that are high in quality and help our economy. Unfortunately many people are absolutely convinced that a Civic is somehow better than a Cobalt, Focus or even Neon which are not built by a faceless Japanese corporation."
People will buy domestic if the product is competitive in the first place. By your accounts they are, by mine? They have a ways to go. I'll give Ford a chance, I'll give DMC a chance. You couldn't give me a Garbage Motors product that I wouldn't want to see roll off a cliff... :lemon:
May not get many takers for your argument in this forum...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I mean, I've seen Hummers and Jeeps with busted axles. The drivers just push them too far. This doesn't mean much. A skilled driver would have stopped after the first strut failed.
We can safely conclude that the driver was a complete moron.
We can't conclude anything at all about the Ridgeline in that article, given who was behind the wheel.
Proof a Hummer is no more capable than the person driving it:
-juice
In truck racing, 2wd is pretty common even among the race trucks (for lightness). Prerunner trucks get the same off-road suspension that they do, but the engines are weaker and more durable. If they would need 4x4 to get through a course, then the course isn't really appropriate for those races.
Same thing with the Ridgeline "ALL TERRAIN". I can hear Honda now..."well not ALL terrain, but maybe SOME MORE than the base model"...
Hehehe. :-P
As for the poster above who thinks Cobalts and Focuses are equal in every measure to a Civic, well, I would just say think again. Really. The conspiracy would have to be pretty far-reaching in the media...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
At least it's more "genuine" than the Corolla S.
Honda has a similar problem with HFP, and Acura with A-spec.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
No car company's "run" "runs out" until they go out of business.
When's the last time a major car company went out of business?
This topic is non-sensical..... :confuse:
It just sounds incredibly inlikely. That's why I asked for a link (still waiting...).
Automakers that have failed here:
Daihatsu
Daewoo
Plymouth
Oldsmobile
Alfa Romeo
Fiat
Studebaker
Edsel
Yugo
That's just for starters. A couple of those failed completely, too.
-juice
Stude, now that one really went bust I guess. Daewoo may not exist any more either, after being absorbed into GM somehow. Not sure if Yugo still exists, but I doubt it.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Daihatsu died in the 90s....
And Daewoo died in this decade. They went completely bankrupt. GM bought some left over pieces, mostly the assembly lines, and the venture is now called GM-DAT. But they sure did die.
So there are recent examples from every decade of a an automaker's run, running out.
-juice
My experience with my RSX: it was the most fun car I have ever owned, I think, just fantastic, also easy on gas. It also had intermittent problems with the electronic HVAC controls and a driver's window that sometimes wouldn't go down, sometimes hit a phantom obstacle on the auto-up and would drop back down. This mirrors every experience I have ever had with Hondas - near-perfect execution of the mechanicals (sweet engine, best manual transmissions in the biz, just-right suspension) paired with controls (usually electronics) that are less than perfect, and systematically break down a little at a time. The only difference with this one was the early age at which these problems began. I traded it as much as anything else because I can't hang onto cars for very long before I get the itch to try something different, but I do feel a car should be out of warranty before you start to have niggling problems, better yet should be over 100K miles.
In the sense that andre is describing, I DO feel that Honda's run is running out. It is losing its edge in the struggle to be the mainstream alternative to Toyota and boost sales volumes. It is still a sweet choice and a better one than many other brands, but the edge it had a decade or two ago has faded.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
However, my other friends with high mileage yotas didn't even have those little niggling problems even after 140k. Granted, those were 140k dreadfully boring miles.
In '91 all I wanted was A/C and a cassette player!
Today, you have power windows with one-touch up/down, locks, mirrors, auto climate control, power moonroof, power seats, 6 CD changers, ABS, VSC, AWD, heated seats, etc.
Look at your car closely, are there not at least 15 items that were not there 15 years ago?
The other thing is competitive pressures from folks with lower costs like Hyundai.
I don't necessarily think Toyota is handling this any differently than Honda, FWIW.
-juice
http://www.detnews.com/2005/insiders/0511/04/C01-371851.htm
Daihatsu
Daewoo
Alfa Romeo
Fiat
Yugo
of being a MAJOR automaker.
Honda's "run" has and will not "run out."
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.