Biodiesel vehicles

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  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H EdmundsAdministrator Posts: 11,133
    Man, if I could get a tax credit for re-using what is basically trash, I'm there!

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  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    Biodiesel is a cleaner burning alternative to petroleum-based diesel, and it is made from renewable resources like soybeans and other natural fats and oils, grown here in the United States. It works in any diesel engine with few or no modifications. It can be used in its pure form (B100), or blended with petroleum diesel at any level—most commonly 20 percent (B20). Soybean farmers have invested millions of dollars through the soybean checkoff to build the biodiesel industry in the United States. More than 400 major fleets use biodiesel commercially nationwide. About 300 retail filling stations make biodiesel available to the public, and more than 1000 petroleum distributors carry it nationwide. Biodiesel is nontoxic, biodegradable and essentially free of sulfur and aromatics. Biodiesel offers similar fuel economy, horsepower and torque to petroleum diesel while providing superior lubricity. It significantly reduces emissions of carbon monoxide, particulate matter, unburned hydrocarbons and sulfates. On a lifecycle basis, biodiesel reduces carbon dioxide by 78 percent compared to petroleum diesel.

    http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/pressreleases/gen/20041022_tax- _Incentive_Passage.pdf
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    "Alternative fuel enthusiasts have a new place to fill up. The first biodiesel fuel pump in Utah opened Thursday at Dal Soglio Sinclair, 7398 S. 700 West, in Midvale. The station now sells diesel fuel that is a 2 percent biodiesel blend (B2), along with conventional unleaded gasoline. The B2 blend costs $1.94 per gallon, which compares favorably to the average cost of diesel in the Salt Lake City-Ogden area, about $1.97 per gallon."

    http://www.ewire.com/display.cfm/Wire_ID/2299
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    This is a very comprehensive study of what it would take to produce enough biodiesel to eliminate fossil fuel completely. Very interesting and not what I would have guessed.

    Michael Briggs, University of New Hampshire, Physics Department

    http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html
  • rfruthrfruth Member Posts: 630
    That is a good paper from UNH I have only skimmed it so far, here is a little ditty I saw in the Sacromento Bee

    http://www.sacbee.com/content/business/auto/story/11229824p-12145- 499c.html
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    That is interesting. I don't think I am ready to hit all the fast food places picking up used cooking oil. I think it is something to get out as an alternative to foreign oil. Even if it was to be 10% it would be an improvement. I would have to get mine from McDonald's so my exhaust would smell like french fries...
  • rfruthrfruth Member Posts: 630
    I agree with you, the sacbee article shows the guy on his roof with a jug of sun-warmed recycled vegetable oil that has been filtered with a burlap sack, I can't picture myself doing that.
  • rfruthrfruth Member Posts: 630
    I can see myself buying it at the pumps - snip - Biodiesel fuel attracts loyal following in Islands

    http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2004/Nov/08/ln/ln11p.ht- ml
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    Good article. It takes a few well known names to promote new innovations. The Prius would not have gotten off the ground without a few celebs showing them off.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    The site below reveals that Toyota internds to have a hybrid version among all its vehicles.

    Where does that leave the Prius when the hybrid Corolla is introduced?

    http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101275
  • backybacky Twin CitiesMember Posts: 18,946
    Where does that leave the Prius when the hybrid Corolla is introduced?

    For those of us who prefer a hatchback body style vs. a sedan, a Corolla hybrid isn't that interesting--especially if they do nothing to correct the poor seating position for drivers on the Corolla. Now if they hybridize the Matrix, that might be interesting--but with the usual hybrid "premium", a Matrix with the features of the base Prius would cost about the same as the Prius. And I prefer the exterior and interior of the Prius to the Matrix.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    "And I prefer the exterior and interior of the Prius to the Matrix"

    When the choice between the Prius and a hybrid Matrix is only about styling, then the Prius becomes redundant.

    If the Prius is to continue in the future, it will have to be defined by something else then hybrid. Maybe some new future technology? Hopefully Toyota will use the Prius as some kind of test-pioneer model that adopts the newest technologies before other models. In this case the Prius would cater to the needs of technology-obsessed individuals( quite alot of buyers fit that criteria)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesMember Posts: 18,946
    If you want to pull out the big Nit Pick... it's about much more than styling. They are much different cars, and I doubt adding a hybrid powertrain to the Matrix would erase all the other differences. I agree, though, the Prius could be Toyota's showcase for leading-edge technology. Or it could become redundant as hybrid technology becomes mainstream. But this point was discussed ad nauseum in earlier discussions.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    'But this point was discussed ad nauseum in earlier discussions. '

    Why thanks for the history of these discussions. I am a newcomer here and appreciate a crash course from a veteran like you ;)

    Since you yourself admit that redunancy exists as hybrid technology become mainstream, I myself see no point in discussing this ad nauseum.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    Earthwise Excavation, formed in 1987, specializes in grading, septic systems, storm systems, water mains, street improvements and erosion control. It started using B100 last year in all 18 of its vehicles: bulldozers, backhoes and the trucks that haul them to work sites.

    http://www.greencarcongress.com/2004/11/b100_biodiesel_.html
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    Blue Sun B20 is high-quality renewable fuel produced from virgin vegetable oil biodiesel, proprietary fuel additives and high-quality diesel fuel in a 20/80 biodiesel to diesel ratio. The blend offers advantages over petroleum diesel by increasing cetane, horsepower, and fuel mileage, while significantly reducing emissions of particulates, greenhouse gases, carcinogens, sulfur dioxide, carbon monoxide and hydrocarbons.

    http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040908/law116_1.html
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    This kit contains everything you need to make a biodiesel processor at home. In addition to the standard DIY Kit, we deliver a 80 gallon water heater to your door. A full set of directions is included. It only takes a few hours to assemble. Make your own fuel for as little as $0.70 per gallon! This kit produces 55 gallons of useable fuel in about three hours of processing time.

    http://www.biodieselwarehouse.com/largedeluxekit.html
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    What will this do to the price of biodiesel?
    Based on DTN’s Alternative Fuels Index, the average price of No. 2 diesel in mid-October was $1.53 per gallon. The price of B20 was $1.72 per gallon. The tax incentive could lower the price of B20 to be approximately the same price as
    diesel based on these numbers (to about $1.52 per gallon).

    http://www.biodiesel.org/members/membersonly/files/pdf/fedreg/200- 41022_Tax_Incentive_Fact_Sheet.pdf
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    There are a variety of statements about biodiesel use from engine/vehicle manufacturers, including some that make reference to warranty. Engine and vehicle manufacturers provide a material and workmanship warranty on their products. Such warranties do not cover damage caused by some external condition. Thus, if an engine that uses biodiesel experiences a failure unrelated to the biodiesel use, it must be covered by the OEM’s warranty. Federal law prohibits the voiding of a warranty just because biodiesel was used -- it has to be the cause of the failure. If an engine experiences a failure caused by biodiesel use (or any other external condition, such as bad diesel fuel), the damage will not be covered by the OEM’s warranty.

     

    I hope this helps with your inquiry about biodiesel. We now have three customers with the 2005 CDI Mercedes who use B-100 exclusively and a fourth with the same car on order! Willie Nelson was the first and has had his since this summer. We cannot control what the auto dealerships are saying, and we do understand that they may not understand biodiesel and its qualities, however, our fuel meets the ASTM 6751 standard and has for the past 8 years. If you can get me the email of the MB dealership in Honolulu, I would be happy to forward the same information to them. Again, thank you very much for your inquiry and your intended support of renewable energy in Hawaii!

     

    Gary,

      

    We have many, many customers with VW TDI's running on our fuel. Some you might have heard of: David Cole, the CEO of Maui Land & Pineapple Co., drives a new diesel Passat on our biodiesel; Willie Nelson's wife drives a VW Jetta TDI wagon, also on our B100; my husband Bob (founder of Pacific Biodiesel) drives a 2000 Jetta sedan which has run its whole life on B100 (I get to drive the '99 Mercedes turbodiesel we just got in August!). I had test-driven a diesel Passat at the Maui VW dealership a few months ago, but before I could make a decision, it was snatched up by another one of our customers!

      

    Happy Holidays, and a very "green" New Year to you!

      

    Kelly
  • tooomptooomp Member Posts: 1
    I think biodiesel/hybrid could be in the future of transportation. They must meed the consumers needs before they will be accepted. An environmentally conscious consumer may be unwilling to buy an SUV due to its large size. The vehicles must be marketed to the consumers interests. Perhaps a smaller more practical vehicle such as a PT Cruiser. Make it 99% recyclable. Chrysler has technology for making lightweight body panels from recycled plastic containers. The point is to make the vehicle appeal to the environmentally conscious. I could see how using both hybrid and diesel technology in a medium size vehicle might result in a 100mpg vehicle. I also wonder if a 2 cylinder diesel could be substituted. This would save on the costs of the diesel engine.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    For you speed freaks. Biodiesel dragster first diesel under 8 seconds in the quarter. Same engine that Dodge puts in their PU trucks.

     

    http://www.greencarcongress.com/biodiesel/index.html
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    The Hutchinson Salt Co, in Hutchinson, Kansas. is the first mine of any kind to use B100.

     

    “We use B100 biodiesel in everything underground that runs on diesel,” said Max Liby, VP of Manufacturing for the mine. “The main benefit is we’ve cleaned up soot in the air and have cut particulates. Workers, particularly the operator of the loaders, like the soy biodiesel much better because they say particulates do not get in their nostrils and the air is noticeably cleaner. Also, lubricity is much greater than if we used regular diesel fuel, so the injector pumps and injectors work more efficiently. The soy biodiesel actually cleans the injectors,” he said.

     

    Hutchinson Salt began using biodiesel in June 2003, and used 31,229 gallons of B100 in the first year.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    Dow Jones Newswires reports that some distributors of heating oil and diesel in the Northeast are selling B20 biodiesel for home heating use. The tax credit that went into effect 1 Jan allows biodiesel to be price competitive with regular home heating oil.

     

    http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/01/biodiesel_for_h.html
  • hangaralf1hangaralf1 Member Posts: 107
    forget emissions, forget foreign oil dependency, and all the rest, I used to work at an ag supply store in lancaster county in PA, and i'll tell you what, those guys have it rough. The small farm is in danger. biodiesel if for no other reason is worth it for the shot in the arm of the ag industry. no more gov subsidized piles of corn going to waste - gov will be using it for biodiesel. i've been looking for a diesel for a while - jeep liberty (with the mercedes diesel)is where i'm looking.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    The best description I have seen on how to make your own Biodiesel:

     

    http://www.statepress.com/issues/2005/01/21/arts/691220
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    That's good. It may not be as complicated as I had assumed to make your own. I wonder if his garage smells like Kentucky fried chicken.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    "When you burn biodiesel ... it's much less smoky, it's better for the engine, it keeps it clean," he said. "It's pretty neat."

     

    Since the Exxon station's switch in April from regular diesel to biodiesel, customers like Shimar Recycling have driven sales of the fuel up 70 percent, said Edward Holmes, president of gas station owner Holmes Oil Co. The station was the second in the area to offer fuel made from biodiesel to individual consumers. On Tuesday, B20 was selling there for $2.05 a gallon.

     

    "We've had a lot of positive customer responses to it," Holmes said. "It's brought new customers to the site that otherwise would not have come there."

     

    http://newsobserver.com/news/ncwire_news/story/2071183p-8453784c.- html
  • bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,257
    I heard somewhere (OK. it was West Wing) that the energy used to grow the feedstock for ethanol was so great that using it in place of gasoline yielded essentially no reduction in crude oil usage (or, presumably, greenhouse gasses.) Anyone know how biodiesel from purpose-grown crops stacks up on this issue? Obviously, using recycled oil from restaurants etc. will have a net benefit, but if biodiesel becomes anything like popular this will quickly become a comparatively minor source of it.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    There is no comparison between Ethanol and biodiesel. Ethanol is not a good fuel. It is used as an oxygenator to make gas burn cleaner. It also lowers the mileage of cars giving little if any gain. As close as I can tell it is just corporate welfare for companies like ADM.

     

    Biodiesel can be run in diesel engines in any mixture up to 100% biodiesel. It is very safe to transport. It can be made from several different crops including algae. It does have a tax incentive to make it more competitive against fossil fuel. As long as oil is as cheap as it is now under $75 per barrel, alternatives are not that great of a deal.

     

    You can collect old cooking oil and easily process it for use as engine fuel. It is reported that you can do that for less than 60 cents per gallon. Sounds a bit messy to me...
  • drpharmdogdrpharmdog Member Posts: 2
    check ethanol.org they have a link that talks about what was said on west wing. i think bio-diesel is great and so is ethanol..creating jobs in the mid-west and ect. if there was ethanol gas here in florida i'd love to put it in my honda insight..
  • yerth10yerth10 Member Posts: 431
    Actually Sugarcane yields more Ethanol than Corn and so the net energy output (output - input) is be higher in that. Brazil is a big-time producer of Cane-Ethanol.

     

    Even if Corn-Ethanol has low net energy output, it may use lesser Oil (since electricity is also used to make the fuel) and hence the overall cost may not be that much.

     

    Every year, US & Brazil are using few billion gallons of Ethanol and that is why Oil prices are at 45, otherwise it may be 55. So its good to continue using Ethanol as a hedge / backup fuel.

     

    All Gasolene vehicles sold in USA can run on fuel

    containing 10 % Ethanol, so when Oil prices goes beyond a cetain level, you can see the Ethanol usage also going up.

     

    Bio-Diesel is also progressing slowly. As Oil prices continue to rise, its natural that these alternatives come into play.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    if there was ethanol gas here in florida i'd love to put it in my honda insight..

     

    Welcome to Edmund's forum.

     

    I think you would find that the gas tainted with ethanol would lower your mileage. It seems to go just about straight across the board. With 5% ethanol you get about 5% lower mileage. What it does do is make gas burn cleaner. In CA they wanted to get something to replace that nasty old MTBE and ethanol is what they chose. Not sure of the long term side effects that will have.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    Interesting article. It kind of portrays the overall battle going on in environmental circles. It is a result of every action causing a re-action.

     

    I thought I was a web surfer. You come up with some good stuff on a regular basis. My hat is off to you! ;-)

     

    PS

    I still like diesel better than hybrid.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Another very cool company which takes veggie oil and converts it to biodiesel at their factory:

     

    "We take (nearly any type of) vegetable oil and process it for use in any diesel engine," Sinoncelli said. "The diesel engine was originally designed to run on vegetable oil, and was later adapted to run on diesel fuel, which was at the time a by-product of gasoline. So what we do is modify the vegetable oil so it mimics the density of diesel fuel to run in today's diesel engines." The firm uses mostly oils rejected for human consumption by the USDA, he said."

    http://www.timesheraldonline.com/Stories/0,1413,296~31519~2687732- - - - ,00.html
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    Buy a diesel and make your own or buy Biodiesel, which benefits US farmers. Put your money where your mouth is!!!!

    I am 100% behind this idea. In CA we are held back from buying high mileage diesel cars by a few people in the government that think they are doing us a favor. When I retire to my home in Hawaii I will buy a diesel car for there. They are big on biodiesel in the islands.
  • yerth10yerth10 Member Posts: 431
    http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=communique&newsid=6163

    Diesel vehicles hold 16% of car market in India. They have solid plans for Bio-Diesel. Success will mean that many Asian countries will move in this direction.
  • yerth10yerth10 Member Posts: 431
    http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/02/rollsroyce_fund.html

    A micro-refinery in a container sized box.
    Its modular, so it can be transported anywhere.
    Capable of producing 8,000,000 liter of Bio-Diesel / year.
  • rfruthrfruth Member Posts: 630
    The Chattanooga Choo-Choo er biodiesel - snip - CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. Chattanooga is going to cleaner-burning biodiesel fuel to help clear the city's air. The city government fleet manager says beginning next week, Chattanooga will use biodiesel in all diesel-powered vehicles.

    The city will initially use a blend of 95 percent diesel and five percent alternative fuel, then go to a 20 percent biodiesel blend.

    http://www.whnt19.com/Global/story.asp?S=2977587
  • turbobiodieselturbobiodiesel Member Posts: 1
    Petroleum fuels have a fuel conversion factor in which a gallon of fuel equivalent energy provides .83 gallons of fuel to the users tank. This means that more energy is used in the production and distribution process than is used by the end consumer, in effect, a negative energy gain. Biodiesel on the other hand has a conversion factor in which every gallon of fuel equivalent provides, 3.2 gallons of fuel to the users tank. Compared to petroleum fuels, biodiesel can be 2.8 times or 280% more energy efficient. Additionally biodiesel is a renewable fuel source in which the carbon in the fuel is from non-sequestered sources. In looking at the big picture, when you also factor in the emission reductions, a biodiesel powered vehicle like the VW TDI with it's excellent fuel economy compares favorably as one of the greenest vehicles available to the consumer.

    http://home.pacbell.net/tocho9/emission.html
  • kotrbakotrba Member Posts: 1
    The allegations are true: Diesel engines burning biodiesel do emit up to 10% more NOx. This isn't the end of the world, though. In weighing the other emissions reductions with the burning of methyl ester (e.g., CO down, THC down, VOC down, etc.), a 10% NOx increase from a utilitarian approach is outweighed by the benefits, considering the NOx can be combatted with the use of available (and eventually required) NOx adsorbers, SCRs, EGRs, etc. The chemical properties of biodiesel actually enhance the performance of these catalysts.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    Biodiesel does not emit sulfur oxides (SOx)like unleaded gas and diesel does. And is GHG neutral.
  • electrictroyelectrictroy Member Posts: 564
    MTBE & other oxygenate additives *also* increase NOx output, but the EPA still requires their usage.

    troy
  • mtbarrmtbarr Member Posts: 10
    While Biodiesel does produce more NOx, all the other pollutants are reduced by 50-80% with B100 (100% percent). The sulfur emissions are gone and so are all the other toxic products produced with Dinodiesel.

    As for the NOx. There is current technology that will bring the numbers into line with even CA emissions standards for NOx. The problem is that the current sulfur content destroys the equipment. Since Biodiesel has no sulfur these devices could be used immediately.

    Once the EPA gets the levels of sulfur in diesel fuel down to a better level the new devices will be implemented.

    This is what VW is waiting for in CA. I think the date is 2006 for the fuel and 2007 for the new emissions levels.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    "If fans of biodiesel get their way, 2005 will be the first year in which thousands of drivers fill their tanks with the increasingly popular alternative to petroleum diesel at a network of public fueling stations. Biodiesel co-op members will get a discount on the fuel, which is derived from natural fats and oils. But drivers of any diesel vehicles will be welcome, according to entrepreneurs hoping to establish biodiesel plants and filling stations in their communities. "

    http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,66868,00.html/wn_ascii
  • yerth10yerth10 Member Posts: 431
    Gujarat state in India starts using B5 Biodiesel in its buses. India is big time user of buses and changing to Bio-Diesel can reduce pollution and also the Oil Bill.

    Finally International Energy Agency has adviced all national to move away from Oil to Alternatives.

    High time for companies to develop a Flex Fuel Vehicle for Diesel, just like that of Gasoline/E85.
  • yerth10yerth10 Member Posts: 431
    greencarcongress.com

    Volkswagen gives warranty on their vehicles to use B5 Bio-Diesel, slowly the bio-fuels are getting traction.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    How much soybean oil and recycled cooking oil is currently available to make biodiesel?
    USDA estimates the U.S. soybean crop to exceed 2.9 billion bushels in 2004, more than 4 billion gallons of potential biodiesel production. Although there are many uses for soybeans and soybean oil, an excess inventory of more than one billion pounds of soybean oil exists in the market. That’s the equivalent of 133 million gallons of biodiesel, which is more than four times the current production level estimates. Additionally, estimates show more than 2.5 billion pounds of recycled cooking oil are produced annually, with approximately 100 million gallons worth of production that could be used to meet biodiesel demand.

    http://www.biodiesel.org/members/membersonly/files/pdf/fedreg/20041022_Tax_Incentive_Fact_- - Sheet.pdf
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    "Volkswagen and ADM are now focused on jointly testing a blend of 20% biodiesel or B20 in order to provide ever-cleaner alternative and sustainable fuel choices."

    http://www.thesoydaily.com/BiodieselBiobased/adm03222005.asp
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