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Comments
I hope something works out for you because I can completely empathize with your situation.
I have been following this discussion. I had the same problem with the Goodyear Eagle LS tires on my 1999 Chrysler 300M. From day ONE the car wanted to go left on the highway no matter what lane I was in. This was no SLIGHT drift. This was- here I come Jersey barrier type "drift"! For 10 1/2 MONTHS I TRIED to resolve this problem with those "wonderful, award winning 5-STAR" Chrysler dealers- two of them as a matter of fact- to NO avail. HOWEVER, from the first week that I had the car, I e-mailed Goodyear about the problem. The very NEXT day, Goodyear called me and said that if there was a problem with the tires, they would replace them. I told them that Chrysler was "working" on the problem. Goodyear said to keep them informed. Every few months, I e-mailed Goodyear and said- Chrysler still working on the problem! FINALLY, my patience ran out after Chrysler/factory reps used up EVERY excuse in their training manual and I e-mailed Goodyear and asked them to make an appointment with my local Goodyear tire store to have them check out the tires. Goodyear called me and said that the local tire dealer was waiting for me to give them a call to bring my car in. I did. Two days later, at 11,000 miles, I had FOUR brand new tires on my car at NO charge. NO MORE DRIFT! Straight as an arrow just like EVERY other new car I ever owned that was driven on these SAME highways!
Bottom line- e-mail or call the tire manufacturer and explain the problem. See if they can resolve it for you. Most tires on cars are waranteed by the TIRE manufacturer and NOT the car company.
Hope this will save you time and aggravation.
fastdriver
ZG
I believe most of the features which come with the leather package are also available in the Sport package.
Red Flame Metallic 2001 SE V-6 with Charcoal Leather interior
1400 miles of pure driving enjoyment thus far
vibration in the steering wheel when braking from moderate to higher speeds.
This just can't be happening to a car that's only two weeks old. I only have a little over 1,200
miles on my new car and have been treating it as it it were made of crystal while it's in the
break-in period. I called the dealer and they said it could be from rust that formed on the
rotors it it had been sitting in the lot for an extended period of time. Could it be deformed rotors?
Does anyone have an opinion?. I'm just heartsick over this.
MJ
The only time I feel "grinding" sensation is when I make very sudden stops. I figure it's just the ABS preventing the slide.
Even if you have rust on it, it should have grinded away after 1,200 miles.
I guess what I would say to your problem is that I consider EVERYTHING to be either a warranty problem or a dealer problem. I would insist that they take whatever measures necessary to take care of your situation. You might conclude that over the years dealers have come to not care for me very much, and that is true. But it is MY hard earned money that I am spending, and I expect no less of a standard for their work that I put into mine.
Good luck, and keep us posted
I thought those surveys came from Toyota and not the dealer? Anyway, if they're holding it and not giving it to you because they're afraid you're going to write something negative, I'd call Toyota and tell them.
fastdriver
In the service department, you get a survey only if you have warranty work. The service advisors name goes on the thing and he is held solely responsible for the scores. They are given a 100 rating for "completely satisfied" and 80% for "satisfied" and it goes down from there. Service advisors are expected to maintain a total score over 90%. They get bonuses both from the dealership and directly from Toyota for maintaining a high score.
Now, if they have a customer that they know will not give them completely satisfied scores, they have incentive to try to avoid letting you ever get a survey. This can include not processing the claims to warranty, altering your address in the system or bribing you with things like free oil changes. I don't condone any one of these, but remember, the service advisor is a human being and will make human decisions.
By being a hard head about the survey, you are putting the guy in a difficult situation. He may get hard headed back and do whatever he can to have your repair NOT considered a warranty issue. His livelihood depends on his total compensation and if you threaten that compensation, he will figure a way to not let that happen.
The situation in sales is similar, but easier to remedy. If we have a difficult customer and we think we will get killed on a survey, all we must do is change one digit in the phone number when we report it to Toyota. We are allowed 10% "mismatch" on phone numbers before Toyota audits us.
Again, I'm not condoning the system. I'm just explaining it.
I hear where you're coming from. While these tactics may apply to the "unreasonable" customer, I don't think they should apply for the legitimate customer with a legitimate problem or concern.
All a customer has to do then is call Toyota from time to time to make sure all their personal info- name, address, ZIP etc. is correct and up to date. They could also call if they had warranty work done and didn't receive a survey to inquire as to why they didn't.
I know you try to help people to see both sides of the issue, but the customer is not always wrong nor are they always right.
fastdriver
Informaton on how to present the problem to the dealer, or anything else pertinent would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Solara11. Dealerships are paid for warranty work, but only once and at reduced labor rates. There is no motivation to have you back several times.
I don't think ANYONE missed your point at all. Some of us know how much those surveys mean to the dealership and the people who work there. My point was, if you have a legitimate complaint about a problem with your new car and the dealer is trying to blow YOU off by saying things like: they're all like that, it's a characteristic of the car, never saw this before or can't duplicate the problem etc. and YOU know there is a problem because you know others who have the same problem or others who had the same problem fixed at another dealer, then you should fill out the survey honestly. If a dealer is really trying to resolve the problem, I don't think you should kill them on the survey, but I think you should check off that the problem wasn't fixed the first time and that the dealer is still working on the problem. Don't dealers have access to factory technicians if there is a problem that has them stumped? I don't mean a factory rep, I mean the engineers at the factory.
From reading this particular topic for years now, I don't think your dealership tries to blow off the customer, but trust me, there are MANY out here who do. They're very condescending and treat the customer like they don't know what the hell they're talking about and that they do.
I know it's not always possible to fix a problem the first time. That would really be idealistic. However, after two or three times that the problem isn't resolved, I don't think the dealer should start coming up with excuses.
fastdriver
Thanks for any suggestions!
Marvin 2001 SLE DWP 1310miles
AMEN!! I agree with you 100%! It's NOT just Toyota! Chrysler is worse! Their "5-STAR" designation is a JOKE and a scam! The "factory rep" is the one who checks the dealer once a month I believe. HOW do they check? I KNOW it's NOT by calling customers at random to see if ANYONE from the dealership ever called to see if they were satisfied with any warranty work that was done on the car or they would have been calling me ALL the time since the dealer NEVER did like they are supposed to!
I know that not all problems can be resolved the first time, but after 5-6 times, SOMEONE SHOULD be calling you!
I don't think this will ever change unless their sales start to slip or the customer takes the time to write to CORPORATE headquarters and not just call "customer service" to voice their dissatisfaction. There will always be good dealers and bad dealers. Just depends on how much pride the dealer owner has for his business and his customers.
fastdriver
Sorry is this sounds harsh. I've waded into this discussion before and nobody seems to care a lick about the fact that the sales staff is trapped by a system they can't change. Let me give you something concrete here. You said there was a problem with the floor in your car. Is that the fault of the salesman? Did he make the floor? Did he damage it? Of course not, but if you answer the survey honestly, it will cost him money. Even if he bends over backwards to get it fixed, the question on the survey is "Were there any problems with your car at time of delivery?" The next question is "Is the dealer taking care of this to your satisfaction?" but the salesman is only rated on the first question. Your honest answer to question number one could be the one that keeps him out of Sales Society, Cash Blast and prevents him from achieving other bonuses totaling over $10K in a year....
Never mind. I know this will fall on the same deaf ears that this has every other time I've gone to the trouble of explaining salesman behavior. We should all just bite the bullet and behave as ethical robots no matter the personal consequences. Only then will Consumer Reports move us up the list.
Oh one last thing... if your salesman did nothing to fix your problem, nail him to the wall.
If scores on the CSI are so important to a salesman shouldn't he spend 15-30 minutes going over a car before the customer picks it up? When I arrived at the dealership, the saleman was still cleaning spots off the finish. I guess that's my point - if the saleman spent as much time preparing my car as he spent "coaching" me on the CSI, he would have found the defect. As someone who is much more experienced than I am with the product, he should have found in 5 minutes what it took me 10 minutes to find.
Brakes...
I don't remember who it was who had the question about brake noise, but my brakes sound horrible when stopping (and I don't just mean when hard stopping). I hear a really strong grinding sound from my front brakes. I have asked the dealer about many times and I am always told that is there is nothing abnormal about this. I am told that this sound is the result of the new brake materials used. So, I have stopped asking about it.
Toyota Service Surveys....
I recognize the poor behavior that Toyota is encouraging by putting such a strong emphasis on how dealership employees are paid based on survey results. It's a double-edged sword...Toyota could the lessen the emphasis on receiving perfect scores, but then this would likely lessen the focus dealer reps has on cust. sat. But at the same time, dealer reps are not 100% focused now on true customer sat because of the pressure to get a perfect score. Either way you execute, it still has potential problems.
Perhaps, Toyota should only rate a rep on his performance and not rate him on things that are out of that reps control. Ex, a manf. defect. Why is this a service tech or salesmans fault? Don't give a negative score to the sales guy becauses a car had defective floor. Ding the plant that manufactured it. Rate the service rep and/or the sales rep for how they handle the problem. Was the rep responsive to the problem and did they fix in a timely manner without a negative impact on the customer? As a person in sales for a major US corp., I would be pissed if money was taken out my pocket because something I sold to a customer had a defect from the plant. Customer sat is key to my success, and how I react to that customer's issue is what is important. I would make sure that customer's product was replaced immediately and that we provide the customer with a temp replacement until a new one arrived. It's that simple!!! And trust me, what I sell costs a heck of a lot more than a Solara.
Customer sat in the auto industry can be a real joke. They sell you an expensive product and then rarely fail to stand 100% behind it unless someone's life is in jeopardy (translation, large loss of $$$'s due to potential lawsuits).
Now, I have worked with some great service depts and I have worked with some really lousy ones. My best services experiences have been with Honda. Average with Toyota(depending on the serv. tech, and the dealer), and poor with Nissan. I know it comes down to the individual. When I find a great sales person or service rep, I give all my business to the individual. See that's, how providing great cust. service pays off. REPEAT BUSINESS. Why is customer sat important to me in sales? Because I want to continue to give myself an opportunity to earn that customer's business again. What every employee of a dealership needs to understand is that they are in sales. What they do impact whether or not a person buys again from that manufacturer. In the end that's what really puts money in their pocket. If that customers goes and buys a Honda next time, that's rev. from the Toyota dealership, and less money that could end up in their pocket.
Understand the business. Treat customers like you want to be treated. And everyone wins.
Thanks both for your posts. I really hate delving into this subject because it is a very emotional issue for me and even more so for the consumer.
sense of the Sales Survey dilemma. If they don't
tie in an award no one takes the time. When they do tie you up with $'s, trips, cards etc., you do your job which now includes "survey prep". I sell multiple brands (not including Toyota)and found the retail experience out of my stores very enlighting.
My wife loves her '99 SE Black/Charcoal #4. We have the Michelin "16's and I think the off center drift/pull is in the power steering rack. It will hunt both right and left but can stay dead straight for miles also. If you cut the ignition and coast the pull goes away. It has also suffered a couple of stone chips, has the single thud during initial acceleration (fuel baffle?) and remains the nicest car she ever owned. She likes the relatively low numbers of lookalike cars (particularly SE's in Black)and the quiet way it works.
Keep us advised as to your findings! Good Luck!
I had to have my bumper cover replaced a couple years back after someone bumped me. The first time they painted it the primer coat bled through so they had to repaint it. The second paint job turned out fine.
I think part of the problem is in the design of the rear of the car. The fact that you have a plastic painted surfacing running under a metal painted surface. This results in the slight color shade difference being more apparent to the eye.
As far as yellowing, I think that's a whole different issue. Could be that the base coat is bleeding through like the situation I had.
And yes, IMO, Toyota should fix the problem. Not sure what the warranty coverage is for paint, but check your owner's manual or give Toyota customer service a call. I'd call Toyota before I called a dealer.
If you can get it repainted under warranty, get a reference from someone to make sure you choose a Toyota dealership with a good body shop. And I would insist that they remove the bumper cover before they repaint it (if possible) to avoid overspray. I had an overspray problem when the repainted mine. Someone left a small gap when taping up my car and the paint bled through onto a quarter panel.
-PNC
IMHO, they need to do more kinds of things (e.g., mystery shoppers, depth interviews, etc.) so that every returned form or wacko customer isn't a near-death encounter for the sales person or the dealership. On the other hand, routinely mediocre service would be exposed more quickly.
Doing so not only would make the system harder to "game," but it would also yield a lot more ACTIONABLE info in terms of IMPROVING service quality. The dealership staff and Toyota both need feedback re: what's correctable and what's OK. The current system sounds like it's one of those "quality" processes that's well-intentioned but has been taken to a mindless, one-dimensional extreme.
Fixing it might require Toyota to pony up some more $$$, but this issue is important to their continued success.
I mentioned it to my Service rep, and he discussed it with Toyota. The reply is that Toyota will not repaint the bumpers. I guess that we didn't spend enough for our cars, since several Lexus posters said that Lexus quickly repainted their cars.
On the positive side, it seems that the yellowing has not increased over the last year or so.
If I could change only one thing about the system, it would be to remove the DQI (delivery quality) question from the salesman's index. Place that blame on the detail department and don't hurt your salesman for things he can't control. There would need to be an incentive program for the "get ready manager" to keep his score up but it seems like an easy tweak of the system. Oh well... I'll handle that as soon as I am declared king.
Go to my roommate's site at:
http://www.thehollywoodextra.com
and find the red link to my car page. I also have the 2002 Camry on there.
Zooker Gill
Zooker: Congrats on the purchase!!! One thing I would suggest is take someone from the dealership with you on a test drive when the car comes in. I did that and it was noted there was a slight drift. However, mine tends to drift with the road; ie. not a major problem. But I wanted to make sure the dealer was aware there was a potential problem. Enjoy!!!!!
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?n=156,178&sid=178
They have the alleged Camry 2002 in there...
http://www.mag-x.com/scoop/camry0103/index.html
No Solara though :-(
Ben
As for me, I am new to the post and I am in the hunt for a car around 23K-25K. Solara SLE coupe is one of my options. Can anyone with the SLE model fill me in on the good and the bad about this car? My pet peeve about this car is that it's recommended to use premium fuel, even though only a regular octane fuel is required for the Accord EX V6... Is there any major difference in using 89 octane fuel in terms of performance and longetivity of the engine?