Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

michaellno

Gee, I'm shocked that you didn't include in your story about how you almost sold it.

ateixeira

about 6% taller overall

Have you heard from other owners that the size will fit OK?

Industry standard is +/- 3%, so you're a little outside that margin of error.

stickguy

no pics yet, but wonder how much this could possibly go for (being 12 YO with 111K on it). But, it is a 5 speed. for the right price? Why not!

http://torchlightmotors.com/newandusedcars/5241/1922528/aa92abda-ecdc-4811-9ba6-- 05e906302073/none/2000-BMW-3Series-Parlin-NJ-08859.aspx

ateixeira

They list it as FWD.

Wonder what else it listed incorrectly...

ateixeira

Avoid these, given people here changes cars as often as they change bed sheets:

http://247wallst.com/2012/05/21/the-ten-most-expensive-cars-to-own/

fintail

Kind of a goofy list, I wonder how they calculated the running costs of the sports cars, which will usually only see duty on sunny Sundays.

The aging white elephant LS600 gets a perfect design score? I am glad I don't live in that world.

ateixeira

Dunno, list used Edmunds as a source, though.

In a way big depreciation can be good - makes good used ones affordable.

I doubt an SLS owner cares much about resale. He's probably more concerned about which of his current 17 cars to move to make room for it.

fintail

Really, for all of those cars, running costs and resale are moot to the first owner. As you say, they can afford it. It's the second and especially third owners of the mainstream models who end up in deep doo-doo.

ateixeira

Friend at work just spent $978 for brake pads.

Wouldn't be a big deal except it's a 2 year old Q5, with just 16k miles.

That's simply ridiculous. :sick:

She said she'll go back to BMW next time (had an X3 before and they covered stuff like that for 4 years). She only paid for gas and tires.

Interestingly, I asked and she said that Audi does offer wheel/tire protection.

nyccarguy

corvette - seriously. I forgot where I was posting. Between my 10+ years with the Prelude & last week's 1st anniversary of Pilot ownership, the hosts might kick me out. I don't anticipate another purchase/lease for another 2 1/2 years when the lease is up on my 2011 BMW 328xi.

michaell - I could seriously go on and on about life with my Prelude. I chose to focus on the positive :P

stickguy

interesting about the 3 series lease.

I get emails from the one local dealer (having shopped there recently), and I am still getting the big sale push for the $396/36 mo lease on the 328xi. Can't believe they still have some left, but apparently they do.

what was interesting is that the one that came today also listed a 2012 lease. Nicely loaded, but a RWD model. And this one was $395/36, so a buck cheaper ($3,700 up front vs. $3,500 though).

so doing the "convert to no money down" math, you are basically looking at $500/month for 3 years on a old style AWD or a new platform RWD (which I would prefer anyway)

tjc78

so doing the "convert to no money down" math, you are basically looking at $500/month for 3 years

What is the sticker price of one of these?

stickguy

talking of a deal, Kerbeck (in AC) in the local paper had a big add of 0 0 0 leases (of course, the one that isn't 0 was buried int he fine print!)

But, they had a base (probably non-existent, but theoretical) CTS sedan with an MSRP ~ 37K, for $247/mo for 36. Only money up front was $895 doc fee, and TTL.

fine print, this includes a lease conquest of 2K, so if you don't have a current non-GM lease, you are looking at $2,895 up front. so again converting, about $325/mo putting nothing down?

Oh, you save even more, because they waive the first 4 payments, so another grand off the top.

if you can actually drive off for that, and are coming out of a lease that qualifies, a screaming deal to drive a new caddy for basically $250/mo + tax with nothing out of pocket.

too bad it will be a base "strippo" version with no moonroof (though I am sure it has everything else I could possibly want!)

stickguy

2011 328xi - 41,035/35,711 (sticker/sale price)
2012 328 - 41,945/39,508

I am actually surprised to see the new one discounted so much advertised. maybe they aren't selling? Or people in NJ are completely conditioned to know that a RWD car is a death trap?

tjc78

Definately a decent lease and a good discount. I believe BMW pumps up the residuals to help lower the lease payment.

I've had several RWD cars in NJ, its been fine. The Genesis was the biggest challenge with it's crappy tires. I know most people I talk to wouldn't touch a RWD here.

stickguy

people are wimps.

I wintered (during college) in upstate NY, so way colder and more snow than down here, driving such delights as a duster with bald bias-ply snows, an Opel with primitive all-season, and a corolla with the same. And I managed to get around just fine, even through actual snow.

down here, I would have absolutely no qualms about a RWD model.

fintail

That's a lot more than the running costs on my E55, and at least it is a somewhat legit performance car and not some soft mommy-mobile. If I am going to pay that much for maintenance, I want more than a pretentious grille and LED jewelry.

isellhondas

BMW does jack up the residuals and honestly, I don't know why they haven't learned any lessons by now? Honda has done the same thing in the past and after luicking their wounds, they seemed to have learned.

Not BMW...they routinely bring 3-4000 less than their residual when they hit the auctions. Of course, I've been out of it for awhile so I could be wrong but I don't think so from what I see.

stever

a RWD car is a death trap?

Everyone knows that RWD cars are inherently unsafe and the only way to go is with FWD.

(Pardon me, I seem to be inversely channeling someone else here. :shades: )

stickguy

just another way of giving a rebate. They must be making it up somewhere (on the inflated sticker price?)

steine13

If you think BMW inflates residuals, you should check out Mercedes. Those cars' sticker prices are pure fantasy. Friend of mine bought an off-lease E350 4matic a year or so ago, paid $33 IIRC for a 3-year-old 30k mile car that stickered for $55 or so.... AND got a two-year b2b warranty included.

He intends to dump the car before the b2b expires :-)

Nice payment, nice car, no worries. Not my cup of tea but I see the logic.

Cheers -Mathias

roadburner

Or people in NJ are completely conditioned to know that a RWD car is a death trap?

I've heard/read some incompetents who say that they can't have a RWD daily driver because it rains a lot where they live.

Seriously. :confuse:

qbrozen

Gee... no Rolls or Bentley on the list? Sure, that's totally accurate. :sick:

qbrozen

we'll see. Rears won't be a problem. Fronts are tighter. I haven't found anyone running 235/45 in the front, but have seen 235/40 on a 1'er that was lowered. So I should be safe with my stock ride height.

fezo

Hey, guys. I'm still around. Recovering nicely here in NYC. Next Thursday I get to go home for a few days. By mid-July I should be there to stay.

Hey, Andre! I know I will hate myself for asking but how goes the DeSoto?

corvette

Glad to hear you're recovering well, fezo!

stickguy

too many chores and kid duties to get out for car looking all Saturday (not that I really expected to). But what surprised me was today on the way past the honda dealer (when I mentioned we could wander by tomorrow for some free BBQ under the tent they had set up out front) and she mentioned "I thought we were going to be doing that this weekend anyway".

since this is from the woman that always detested going to a car dealer, I think she must really want to get a new car!

oh, while we were walking the dog tonight, we went by a house where they have a current style BMW X5 (silver). I said something about it, and she said "I really like that one" and asked if she could have one (sadly, I had to break the sad news of what they cost!). Though she didn't seem too perturbed by the concept of a CPO.

stickguy

torchlight (I posted a link to a BMW there the other day) has a rare car. A 2003 325i 4 door, without any options. No moonroof or power seats. The tightwad special!

actually looks clean, but asking $9,990 for it with 72K on it.

The 2000 323i 5 speed (no pictures yet) with 111K is listed for $6,690, and that to me seems high. But, what do I know!

stickguy

talking to myself (no one else here to talk to!), but was out this morning with the wife, and discussed missing looking. She actually said "maybe I will go out tomorrow by myself" (she is off tomorrow). I told her to book me a room at our snazzy new hospital, because if I come home and see a new car in the garage, I am going to keel over from a heart attack.

not a chance in the world she does, but at some point I think she is going to make me go with her!

though when we get the estimate for new windows (had a guy out to measure today) that might put a crimp in the plans.

stever

New cars have new windows too. :shades:

Payback on new windows is maybe 20 years. Get the car. :shades:

stickguy

it's nice to be able to open the windows on the front of the house though. Comes in handy sometimes.

doesn't have to be an either/or, but might delay the car just a tad...

I do need to get part of my driveway replaced, before a car goes through it!

laurasdada

My Jag XK did not make the Top 10 Most Expensive list! I guess it's an economy car, then...

RWD with 275/35 Summers out back. This is not a snow car. As demonstrated by the 1/8" of snow that almost stranded me at the bottom of my driveway this past "Winter." I'm a life-long skier, FWD'er. The Jag is my first RWD. I got away with one this past winter, but I fear Mother Nature shan't be so kind come December. We won't get fooled again! What to do, what to do ('97 Saturn SL1, 5-speed manual with two snow tires included?).

ateixeira

It is if they include the cost of speeding tickets.

corvette

Get a second set of rims and install winter tires on them, if you're going to keep the Jag. You may even be able to find OEM rims on eBay or one of the Jaguar forums, if you want to keep the factory look.

tifighter

warning: non-BMW content

I'd like more room than the current RDX gives us. Ski trips with 4 adults, even with the roof box is really tight. Staying in Tahoe in winter has taught me that some more clearance would useful. Mountain bikes are 6 feet long, they bounce like crazy on the hitch rack and aren't terribly secure when parked. And not easy to put on the roof. I could go bigger SUV, minivan, or truck.

SUV - maybe. Not very space efficient. expensive for what you get. Not feeling it.

Minivan - maybe. Bikes roll right in, easy (my wife hates loading the bikes on racks). Only AWD is the Sienna (CA and WA are winter "Chains only, except 4wd' states). Sounds like the runflats are major issues. Still, maybe...don't care about the stigma.

I'm leaning truck. Cheaper than comparable SUV. Useful bed. Midsize Crew cab and 4wd. Work from home, so this won't be a daily driver. Its the activity vehicle, so space and comfort gets priority over MPG this time.

Used market is beyond bonkers right now, so looking new. Around here, new is typically only a few K more. Have considered all the players, the domestic mid-sizers are gone (ranger) or old (Colorado), so imports it is I guess.

Frontier - Can get a crew cab with 6ft bed, which is a plus. Really wanted this to work, but the rear seats on the crew cab are beyond torture, with the perpendicular seating position. Plastic interior, but hey, its a lot cheaper than a Tacoma.

Ridgeline - Willing to give it a chance despite all the "not a real truck" talk. 5 foot bed gives up a lot of the hauling advantages, would prefer longer. Good rear seat room. My Pilot was bulletproof, so I'd expect the same here. Last-gen nav unit appears to have been sourced from Commodore. Sounds like this truck could be discontinued any minute, or not.

Tacoma - Just looked at this yesterday. Can get a double cab with the 6ft bed. Has the typical tight Tacoma low seat high floor seating postion (see previous 4 runner). Rear seat angle comfortable, but no leg room magnified by no room to put feet under the seat. Expensive, of course. In demand and a resale superstar, and the sales department knows it.

Tundra - Wasn't looking full size, but this was parked next to the Tacoma. The double cab (not crewmax) is only 7" longer than the Dbl 6ft bed Taco. Much more comfortable than Taco and roomier back seat, surprisingly. Drives big, but quiet and smooth. They want these off the lot; invoice less $3k rebate without trying, and (not the usual or) 0% from Toyota. This makes even a loaded Limited Tundra DC with nav within 3K of a TRD Tacoma DC. From what I see on the used market, none of this is really affecting Tundra resale with is always good for a CCB.

Haven't driven any other full size, but a little looking shows the domestics aren't discounting to the same level. The F150 might be as good or better, but its not like a Toyota truck is a bad ownership proposition. Thoughts? I know Steve votes minivan...

au1994

I too have lamented the passing of the true compact p/u. The new Tacoma's are BIG compared to the 95 I had. As with the previous gen 4Runner the seating postion is a killer for trips much more than 3 hrs according to my rear-end-o-meter.

I've always liked the look of the Frontier. Cleaner styling just looked a little more 'grown-up' than the Taco so its disappointing to hear about the interior.

Ridgeline...meh...never did much for me and I thought I understood that this was the last model year.

Colorado...is what it is. Old styling etc but pretty simple inside and out. Not powerful though.

If I was going full sized, I'd go F-150. Just prefer the look even though the Tundra may indeed be the better truck.

Dakota? Not much cheaper or smaller than a full size but may be worth a look.

graphicguy

Oh good. Another shill!

stever

At least you now know not to use Express for leasing in Miami. :P

corvette

MPG on the Ridgeline is disappointing considering it's a car based platform with a V6. Edmunds had suspension problems with their long term tester when they tried to drive it off road, but that may not be a concern if you don't plan to attempt something similar.

The Tundra is a lot of truck for the money, after factoring in the substantial discount.

I think the Ram offers a Hemi package (Tradesman and street truck editions) that is fairly inexpensive. Due to the independent rear suspension, it should ride better than all of the trucks except the Ridgeline.

stickguy

I agree that "compact" PUs is an oxymoron, like "minivan" is now. And for a weekend duty rig, might just as well get the full size, if it isn't too big for you (it would be for me). The MPG at this point is not that big of a difference (so you get 16 instead of 19. big whoop!)

the Ford though is giant. Not that the tundra isn't a big beast too.

How about the Titan? someone down the street from me has one (a 4 door) and it looks really sharp, and just does not seem to be as giant as the "real trucks. basically a super-sized frontier I guess.

qbrozen

But Fiat doubled up on the incentives to take a trip to the showroom, so that's what I did. $50 Amazon giftcard was nice, but I was much more interested in taking my shot at a free car thanks to being one of the first 500k Facebook fans.

Being a Wed morn at 9am, it was obviously dead there. Not another customer in the joint. Saleslady was insistent on a test drive to satisfy the gift card requirements, even though I made it clear I'm not a buyer. But, OK, as long as she's cool with it, I'll take a drive.

I really liked the seats. Nicely bolstered and comfy. I don't comprehend having so much seat travel with no telescoping steering wheel, though. Does anyone actually want to drive without touching the steering wheel?

They had no manual Sports in stock ... well, they had 1 and it was in the middle of the showroom. She told me the manual Sport is the most popular one and they can't keep them in stock. Interesting. So I settled for an automatic Sport. She then drove me over to their private "track," which was a 1-lane wide, 4-corner, maybe 0.5-mile loop. So not much of a track. Anyway, I looped it maybe 8 times or so at varying speeds.

As usual, I don't understand the "Sport" button on the dash. Why would you drive it without that engaged? For one thing on this car, oddly enough, the Sport mode quickens the steering ratio. Without it engaged, the amount of input you have to dial in to get around a 90 degree is pretty silly.

Overall, I really did like the car. Felt very tight and solid. A tad on the gutless side, but turn-in, steering feel, and feedback is all top notch (in sport mode). I would have liked to sample a manual, but oh well.

Oh, and no, I didn't win a free one.

ateixeira

Needs manual+Abarth. :shades:

isellhondas

" Car based platform"

Wher does that info come from? It's not true!

Ridgelines aren't my favorite Hondas for a couple of reasons. They are butt ugly (I know, subjective) and they are miserable to see out of when backing up.

They are, however tough as rocks and as solid as a safe. They have a strong commanding feel that is hard to describe.

I once sold one to a Search and Rescue guy who told me that NOTHING he had used on his job in 30 years compared to a Ridgeline.

In the snow, they are incredible!

ateixeira

Here's a pic of the frame:

http://www.motortrend.com/oftheyear/truck/112_0602_toty_2006_honda_ridgeline/pho- to_08.html

qbrozen

She tried to sell me on that. They didn't have one, but one was in transit that was special ordered and the buyer wound up getting one that arrived sooner.

tifighter

Titan would be an option, but the reliability reports are all over the place. As far as the Tundra goes, the biggest issue I have is the physical size...but I suppose that's where the roominess comes from. Like everything, I'd probably get used to it, but even at 6'2", the running board was nearly mandatory for getting into the cab. The model I drove had front & rear sonar, and I could see where it would be useful when parking.

I wish the midsizers were just a touch more efficiently packaged (Tacoma) or didn't have the bolt upright rear seat angle (Frontier).

jayrider

When I needed a truck to pull a travel trailer in 1997, I drove a Dodge, Ford and Chevy full size. They were all very different in so many ways. At that time the Chevy Silverado was easily my favorite. Lower step-in and a much smoother drive train. 88k miles on the 350 V8 with zero issues mechanically even pulling a trailer from coast to coast twice. Don't know anything about the new models but I suggest some thorough test drives. I'd get what I like and wouldn't be all that concerned about reliability because the odds are heavily in your favor that you won't have problems with any domestic or foreign brand.

corvette

Wikipedia says the Ridgeline chassis is a hybrid between a ladder frame and unibody. I always thought the Pilot/MDX platform on which it's based was similar to the Accord platform.

Anyway, I always associated the Pilot/MDX/Ridgeline as "car based," like a Murano or Highlander in that they have a unibody.

stickguy

I thought it was kind of like taking the Accord platform, and sticking the frame underneath it to beef the whole thing up?

andre1969

Yeah, I never considered the Ridgeline to be unit body, and the fact that they slipped a full frame under it was proof positive, IMO, that if you're doing a truck, full-frame definitely trumps unit body!

Using an old-car example, I guess the closest analogy would be the 1960-66 Imperial. Chrysler had gone to unit body (and in fact, coined the word "Unibody") in 1960 for all of its cars except Imperial. The Imperial used the old 1957-59 frame, but they applied a lot of unit-body techniques to the structure, so it was a bit of a hybrid itself. The resulting car was so tough and rugged that it was often banned from demolition derbies.