Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

ateixeira

Try killed a whole plastic forest for that one.

oldfarmer50

"...used prices get absurd..."

That's true. Always thought you could make a killing buying a Prius when gas was @ $2.50 and selling it when gas was @ $4. Same in reverse with SUVs.

Never understood how Prius demanded such high resale. I haven't heard of any major failures in that hybrid system but with new technology how could you be sure?

stever

The Prius has been around since '97, so any major failures would be well documented by now. 16 years - getting to be old tech. :shades:

jayrider

I don't see my 2010 prius doing that great on resale. Paid 25k and "might" get 19 now if I sold it myself. Trade in would be about 15-16k. It is possible that it might hold at that level a few more years but the price of new ones hasn't been increasing much. VW came out with a Jetta Hybrid but I wouldn't want to own that car out of warranty.

stickguy

looks like a nice one. If you want one, get it. Though odd to see a cloth interior.

my guess, in this case, being the last one makes no $ difference, but it is a novelty.

michaellno

I've added Wes' punch and guess to the list. We're now at 19 for 2012 and 5 for 2013.

New news - after 12 years, my wife has decided to move on to a new job. This is the one I mentioned in the past week where she will be driving to child care providers in Arapahoe County. Not exactly sure how much driving this will entail, but she is entitled to mileage reimbursement to/from the locations based on distance from the office.

For the moment, she will use the CX-7 for this, but I'm concerned that if there is a lot of driving she will be filling up 2x each week - at $50-60 a pop. Not sure that the reimbursement amount will cover that kind of expense.

Stay tuned. I asked her if she were to start over, what would she want?

Her answer? Nissan Juke.

Hmmm.

On a positive note, she did mention that since she will no longer be working for a public entity, she might entertain a luxury brand.

corvette

"I see a number of purchases from people who probably won't punch again this year (andre, jayrider, corvette)."

Challenge accepted!

nyccarguy

There's a guy on the midsized sedans 2.0 board that has a Prius with over 200K on it.

There's a 2011 Prius Two w/ 11K miles for sale @ a local Toyota dealer. Asking price is $18,995. Jayrider, you got the fancy Prius, right?

A different dealer has a new (leftover) 2012 Prius Two. 5 to choose from. MSRP: $25,020. $199 per month with $2,399 down. 36 months/12K per year. Comes out to $265 + tax. And I'm sure you can do better than the advertised lease:)

ateixeira

The trick is to wait and sell it during the next gas price spike.

That 11k mile used one will jump to $20,999.

jayrider

My prius is the IV which has leather and a JBL radio. I bought in Aug. of 2010 when gas was dropping and inventories were high. They have sold a lot of Prius's so even if gas goes higher, there is too much supply to have a shortage --- except when talking to dealers or sales reps. I didn't buy it for the mpg -- I wanted a roomy hatchback with great seats. Mission accomplished and 50 mpg is attractive as an extra.

andre1969

Challenge accepted!

I'll second that! Remember, I'm starting to get a bit bored with my 2000 Park Ave. And, on the old car front, the local dealer up the street has a nice looking blue '81-83 Imperial that catches my eye every time I drive by. I just haven't had the courage to stop and give it a close look yet!

oldfarmer50

"...if you want one, get it..."

No sir, even I have to draw the line somewhere. That wagon looks like a pregnant whale. Strictly for yucks and giggles.

steine13

A Roadmaster of that vintage is probably better in the abstract than having to live with it...

That particular example has dirty seats.
Pfui.

Cheers -Mathias

breld

Wife and I did just a bit of test driving today, in the vain of the high MPG second car I'd like.

Drove a Prius first - no offense to jay and other owners, but I wasn't all that thrilled with it, though it is indeed worlds better than the Insight we previously owned. I may still be interested if I could find a nice used buy - the one 3rd gen model they had used was a 2010 model "II" with 57k miles and they wanted $20k!

Then went next door to the Lexus dealer and drove the CT200h - enjoyed that quite a bit. Same drivetrain as the Prius, but certainly has a sporting flair to it. CVT seemed to be less intrusive from an audible standpoint. Definitely tight on space though. Wouldn't buy a new one, but with it being out a couple of years now, they'll start being more plentiful on the used market.

The wife suggested a more traditional high MPG car may be a better choice - Mazda3, Focus, etc. She may be right.

akangl

Stay away so long......you guys have been busy it seems. I haven't had time to go back and catch up, heck I barely have time to think about what my name is or which class is what day!

Funny how I started out with great plans with one college major and 2 weeks of the first required class for it I realized it was not for me. Changed that in a hurry!

No new cars around here, did visit the GMC dealer yesterday afternoon to make an appt for Chippy, for an oil change and to see if they could figure out why the old girl was running rough. Diesel tech happened to be standing right there and they took the truck right in. One oil change, one air filter, one mass air flow sensor, and 2 quarts of transmission fluid to fix the harsh transmission shifting and ole Chippy is like a new truck. They also ordered a new instrument cluster to fix some gremlins in the trip computer and a new seatbelt buckle for the pass side front seat that seems to have an issue staying latched.

I love that service dept, they are always so pleasant to work with. All told it cost me $200 between the oil change, air filter change, and my ESC deductible. Better than the repair bill......the mass air flow sensor alone was $400.

jayrider

Not at all surprised you didn't care for the prius. It certainly isn't a "drivers" car. The price on the used one is way out of line. Go to cargurus and search -- you'll see the light on real world prices for anything you might fancy.

oldfarmer50

"... Better in the abstract..."

Nah, not even in the abstract. I always thought that style Buick and it's cousins at Chevy were the ugliest, most bloated cars ever built. Maybe in 30 years people will think of that style as quirky and like it but I'll be long gone by then.

Here's something more interesting...at least in the abstract.

http://albany.craigslist.org/cto/3528774259.html

nyccarguy

I often use you as a point of reference when people ask me about hybrids Jayrider. You bought the car for its practicality & the 50 or so mpg is just a bonus. You said before, that you'd have bought your Prius if it "only" got 30 mpg.

tjc78

I sat in a Fiat 500 yesterday at the auto show. I'm a big guy 6' 300 and I'm stunned that I actually fit in it and had enough room to drive it if I had to. Of course, I would never but that's another story.

Walking the auto show had me thinking one thing for sure. If you like large sedans you are pretty much screwed. There is nothing "big" any more except for SUVs. The LaCrosse/XTS and 300/Charger are about as big as you get these days. The Taurus/MKS are huge but very cramped inside for their exterior dimensions. The only truly large cars are the 750, S, and LS460 and those aren't anywhere near affordable.

jayrider

Folks focus too much on the perceived savings in buying a hybrid but they forget to figure in the sales tax and depreciation into the equation. From an mpg perspective, driving a hybrid won't make you rich and driving a conventional car won't make you poor .

michaellno

corvette and andre - challenge accepted!

Ah, so my plan is working!

(insert evil laugh and hand rubbing here)

breld ... I sat in the CT200h at the auto show a couple of years ago .. I really liked it, but not at the $35K+ they want for one new.

Can't we have fun to drive and hybrid tech together in one package?

breld

Agreed on the $35k list price on those CT's. Browsing nationwide listings for used ones last night, the lowest ones were in the low $20's, but they were more like outliers (one had an accident history). But there were several right around $25k, some were CPO. I told my wife maybe in a year or so they're in the very low $20k's, and that would seem like a pretty good buy.

Then again, there are already Mazda 3 skyactiv models on the used market for $16k (and probably could get lower). That value is tempting as well.

And good point on the economics - if you run the calculations, it takes quite a difference in mileage, combined with a lot of driving miles, to make a significant difference in the pocketbook. So you better like the car for what it is (like Jay). Rarely ever makes any sense to actually replace a car, but if you're in the market, may as well consider the MPG equation.

michaellno

Then again, there are already Mazda 3 skyactiv models on the used market for $16k (and probably could get lower). That value is tempting as well.

Gotta believe that those are the i Touring sedans. Wife and I tested an i GT with skyActiv last year. She liked all the bells and whistles - bluetooth, nav, HID headlights - just like her CX-7.

breld

Yup - there's also a i GT used for sale, but that's more like $20-21k.

I'd probably be okay with the touring for my purpose, but I'd really prefer the hatchback.

michaellno

The wife prefers hatches to sedans as well.

qbrozen

I test drove a 500. At 6'5", I fit just fine in it. More comfortable, in fact, than the Leaf sitting in the garage.

ateixeira

Cargurus is dangerous for people here, we may exceed all the guesses if people start surfing that site.

ateixeira

Brand new SkyActiv leftover 2012s are $17.6k and 2013s are $18k, both hatches. May not need to go used.

Wonder if car gurus includes the $500 Mazda loyalty rebate, or I could get it even cheaper?

I'm torn, I like gadgets, but I'd rather have 16" wheels and tires with more sidewall. The 2012 has the dinky Navi, 2013s are better but still a smallish screen.

anonymousposts

The Prius isn't for everyone. I can't say I miss ours a whole lot. Though, it was awesome to see 50-60 MPG. We drove from Atlanta to Maine and back on about $130 of gas. The CT is more of a real car. So far our Accord 6MT is averaging 32 MPG.

breld

Only $18k for 2013 Mazda3 hatches? That sounds like a good deal. Even the touring model comes with auto climate, USB and keyless for 2013. Nice additions in my opinion.

Did some Sunday browsing of the lots, and took note of the Impreza - didn't realize they got almost as good MPG as the Mazda3 - I think 30 mpg combined, 36 on the highway. I didn't notice before 'cause I was focused only on the manual trannie, which sacrifices as much as 3 mpg over the CVT. $23.5k sticker for the Impreza Sport - that seems pretty good too. But I'm not overly attracted to the styling.

Juice - refresh my memory on your impressions on the new Impreza.

stickguy

how do you like the new accord? I hated the last generation, but this one looks nice. And the reviews have sounded good.

how would you compare it to the 2nd prior generation (like my '05?)

jayrider

I sat in an Impreza and found the seat unacceptable for me and the feel in the car just felt cheap. I really thought that it was going to be a contender -- it only took me 20 seconds to scratch it off the list. People do like them so chalk up my experience to my individual quirks.

qbrozen

The new look is terrible. It is just so generic looking now.

qbrozen

cargurus? I'm looking at it, but I'm not seeing [new] pricing. If they do offer pricing, how does it compare to truecar?

The used cars are interesting to surf. Some great deals on used 1-series. :surprise:

jayrider

There is a new tag to check but you won't find much. New cars tend to show up infrequently with the used ones. The site can be addictive.

ateixeira

The Prius isn't for everyone.

Remember the ad? In the car commercial thread we joke it's a Prius for everyone else.

That way gas is cheap, we can see through them, and pass at will.

ateixeira

The 3 Touring also has alloys, rear discs, soft touch dash, and leather on the steering wheel and shifter, plus a trip computer. For $17.6k, remember.

The dealer was a doofus and brought me a 2.5l model to drive, I noticed when the auto didn't have a 6th gear. I was shopping with my sister so we had no more time to try the SkyActiv 3. She drove a CX5 and liked it, but I felt that car was too heavy for the 2.0l. It needs the new 2.5l from the 6, or a diesel.

I actually liked the Impreza more, better visibility, smoother ride and operation, and MUCH roomier back seat. Roomier than the CX5, where you have to remove the rear head rests to fold the seat.

But the Subie (and the VW Golf) are priced at a premium, and this is the car where rear seat room is least important to me. The Imprezas I like have paddles for the CVT, but I can get moonroof and Nav on the 3 for the same money. VW wants crazy money for the TDI, 5 grand or so higher though they're nicer inside, I'm just not a dash stroker.

I think I will drive the SkyActiv 3, and maybe an Elantra GT for that lovely panoramic moonroof. Value is similar to the Mazda also.

Basically I want the Hyundai warranty and panoramic moonroof with the Golf interior and TDI range and the Subaru AWD and paddles with the fuel bill and price from the SkyActiv. And by the way I want heated cloth seats and 30 mpg city with a smooth auto start/stop. For around 20k.

I'm not asking too much, am I? LOL

I have about $500 Subaru bucks and Mazda has a $500 loyalty rebate, so that helps but would not sway me by itself.

Other strikes - Elantra's real world mileage and smaller gas tank, not sure I trust VW reliability, and why get a 2nd Subaru when I can borrow my wife's on snow days like today?

All cars have too-big alloys on the well equipped models I like, so compromise compromise compromise.

breld

Interesting thoughts on all those. Given the roominess of the back seat you mention on the Impreza, I may take a closer look at those.

I liked the Elantra GT when I drove it - I'm a little put off by the recent news that Hyundai fudged the EPA numbers in such a way that they'll be paying refunds to current owners. It'll be interesting to see what their revised EPA ratings come out to be. [EDIT] - just checked the Hyundai site, the revised estimates are there. Most of the ratings were adjusted 1-2 mpg - obviously not a significant change, but they do miss out on that magical "40" number on the Elantra now.

TDIs certainly are nice, especially the Golfs. But I'm a bit turned off by the premium on diesel right now - seems to be as much as 20-30% more. And I have enjoyed our VW ownership experiences, but I'm not ignorant to the potential headaches of VW reliability.

The Mazda3 seems to be a good bet - good reliability, relatively sporty, reasonably priced, and they live up to their EPA ratings.

I like the Focus too, but given I'd be interested in an automatic this time around, I understand that trannie is a major shortcoming of the car.

michaellno

The Mazda3 seems to be a good bet - good reliability, relatively sporty, reasonably priced, and they live up to their EPA ratings.

I like the Focus too, but given I'd be interested in an automatic this time around, I understand that trannie is a major shortcoming of the car.

+1, breld. The automatic transmission paired with the skyactiv engine is a treat. We've got a similar transmission in the CX-7, and I like that it will downshift automatically when going down a hill to maintain speed.

And, I'm not convinced of the longevity of the DCT or DSG transmissions found in Ford and VW. Much rather have a stick myself for those brands.

Sandman6472

Tranny on Focus is a bit wonky but after some time, think it would smooth out a bunch. Love the Elantra GT for it's versatility and warranty. It's nice to have a problem and drive it in and have it fixed under warranty...happened with the kids Accent and got great service with the piece of mind. For the $, the Elantra GT is a very good choice though the Mazda reliability is something we're living with first hand now. Our 3s has been a great, reliable sled with a few issues cropping up after we hit the 105k mark. After repairs, car sounds and drives like brand new so we're gonna just keep it. My CPA wife loves it and can't see a reason to spend 20 large on something new right now.

If money was no object, I'd get the Lexus CT as it's a cool looking ride with stellar mileage. But since I'm totally frugal at this stage of life, the Elantra GT followed by the Mazda3 hatch would be on my short list. Since my next ride will be my last one, I will have to choose very wisely. I do love the "cheap to keep" aspect of my current Civic so replacing it with the Hyundai or Mazda hatch is the prudent thing to do but the driver in me wants the C Class or 1 and 3 Series for the sheer driving enjoyment. A dilemma for sure but luckily, I have a few years to decide here.

On another note, while insurance shopping, got a great quote on Metlife for both cars, I mean really great for South Florida while other brand name companies were totally outrageous. Just shows that one does need to shop around as Clark Howard says!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

ateixeira

EPA numbers are easily fudged. I mean, they're on a dyno in a lab.

In my research, I found that Hyundai falls short, Mazda and VW exceed expectations, and Subaru is about where they claim to be.

The killer is that Impreza supply is very short so prices are significantly higher than Hyundai or Mazda.

I wish the 3 had a bigger moonroof.

Speaking of which....

ateixeira

Hyundai Elantra GT has a nice one.

Veloster also offers a nice one but I hate that it has 18" wheels and the back seat is pointless.

Prius V offers one, but I'm sorta looking for a small car right now.

Audi A3 has one, but a TDI with the roof is over $30k, my most expensive choice by far.

Tried a 500C but it felt tinny and the useless back seats doesn't help, plus you can't see behind you when it's folded.

So....who else? Aiming for $25k or less, list price.

fintail

Thanks MB.

Does list price mean new car or blue book? :shades:

Out of that list, I would pick the GT.

stickguy

Having a VIP contact at SOA is nice. I never have to worry about supply/demand pricing. Not that I could convince my wife to get one. maybe this summer, when my son needs one!

Roofs? not too many cheaper cars with them. Mini cooper is an obvious choice. Does Scion still make the tC? that had a nice one.

what are you looking to do? Replace the miata, or relegate it to toy status, with the new car becoming the commuter?

breld

Good question - I can't think of any others off the top of my head. Many of the German wagons have/had them, but obviously way over the $25k threshold. VW's Jetta wagon has one - but that model is closer to $28k.

I guess Hyundai should be commended for offering them on entry-level cars - though last summer when my wife and I were looking at the Veloster, the salesperson showed us one in the repair shop on which the sunroof had shattered while the driver was on the highway. Not sure what the circumstances were, but in any case, that would have scared the bejeesus out of me. I think since then I read that there was some potential recall on those sunroofs.

ateixeira

Yeah, I think the old C "coupe" (it was a hatch) was the first vehicle I sampled that had one.

Feels like a convertible but more liveable day to day.

breld

Veloster shattering sunroofs

fintail

I've been thinking about the history of the modern pano roof. It was offered as an optional SL hardtop starting ~1996, I think - that might be the first. The C-coupe and W211 E-class starting production in 2002 both had it, and from then it caught on. It can be had on almost every MB model today. The F11 5er Touring I once rented in Germany had it too. I like them too.

ateixeira

Cooper - correct. Catch is the back seat failed our kid test, plus it wants premium fuel, which around here is priced like liquid gold. Bigger Coopers pricing gets out of hand.

Scion tC - not a big fan of the new one, I liked the old one better. Plus even though it technically has a hatch, it feels like a coupe, and isn't very practical. The real deal killer is that I sat in one and felt claustrophobic, so it's not on the short list.

If I proceed, yeah, this would replace the Miata.

I really should have kept my NA Miata. The new one is too nice. Isn't that a funny thing to say? Low profile tires and sport suspension get beat up on DC's potholes. It's quicker than I need. Tiny gas tank means the low fuel light goes on way too often. Premium fuel recommended.

The old one had a lower cowl and doors, felt more open, used cheaper fuel and less of it.

I know it sounds weird, but the NA was more pure, open, simple, and that's what a Miata should be.

Of course the good news is I paid $22k 5 years ago and they still sell for $17k, so depreciation is basically nothing. About $83 per month. Can't call that a mistake, not by a long shot.

ateixeira

Also saw that recall. Would not scare me away, they did replace them after all.