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Legacy GT Limited vs. Acura TSX and TL



  • ryanl1ryanl1 Posts: 55
    You guys are rignt.Fold down seats in sedans don't do much good with a fixed trunk,that's why Mazda 6 sport hatchback is the logical choice for someone with only 1 car who doesn't want wagon,suv.I was just wondering which was the truth cost savings or torsional rigidity.
    I'll just use my wife's crv to haul non-explosives.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    G35 coupe is drop-dead gorgeous. Somehow it looks a lot better than the sedan.

    AW readers picked it over the BMW3 as America's best coupe.

    Leaving a Mustang, check out the 300C sedan, which is popular with the Hemi, and cylinder deactivation actually keeps it relatively efficient. certainly can fish tail in a Subaru if you want to. With the 5 speed manual, the default power split is 50/50, I have this on my Forester and even 165hp is enough to get the tail out in tight turns, very easy in the wet or in snow. And the AWD actually pulls you out of the skid so it's safe.

    I have a Miata, and while it is easier to get the tail out, it's far harder to control. The Forester is safe and fun.

    Auto Legacy GTs actually send even more power to the rear axle - 45/55 is the default split. They too can get the tail out under power in a turn.

  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    I like the new Outback a lot. But regarding cargo capacity, the "true" capacity is really the area under the retractable cover, would you agree? If you pack the wagon up to the rafter, it would affect rear visibility, plus your stuff would be exposed to prying eyes. So if you're carrying 4 passengers, I'm not sure if there is a significant difference in "useable" cargo space between wagon and sedan.

    And, juice, I know you're an expert on Subarus. Do you know if the factory security alarm for the Legacy/Outback offers protection for the hood, or if there is a dealer-installed upgrade for that? Or about aftermarket alarms? Some manufacturers, (ie. Honda), discourage using aftermarket alarms, citing potential conflict with the car's electrical system.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I think even then it's bigger than the Legacy sedan's. The wagon is boxier in the back.

    And if you're taking home a big TV, you're likely going straight home so thieves aren't really an issue. If you have the turbo engine what's behind you will just fade away. ;-)

    Wish I had one, but I think there are a couple of OE alarm options, including a motion sensor of some sort.

  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    "And if you're taking home a big TV, you're likely going straight home so thieves aren't really an issue."

    You're absolutely right about that. I guess I was thinking more in terms of packing stuff for a vacation.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    Not only has Subaru moved the Legacy/Outback upmarket, they have done likewise with the brouchures! I got the brouchures in the mail yesterday, and they are 40-page jobs that rival the ones from MB, Audi, BMW. They look great on my coffee table!
  • kevin111kevin111 Posts: 991
    Juice, despite your assertions, they both have their advantages. With that said, does the TSX or the TL have either a pass through or fold-down seats? Just curious.

    BTW - ryan1 - I would have to agree with you about the Mazda6 Hatch. It is a really good idea. Looks and acts like a sedan, with cargo carrying advantages of a wagon (though not as roomy as the wagon.
  • monomono Posts: 26
    I agree, the G35's coupes are better looking than the sedans. I prefer the coupe, but I don't need to go from one two-door car (Mustang GT) to another. It doesn't help my issue of getting kids in the backseat.

    I don't care for the looks of the 300C, but good thought.

    How do the new Legacy's GT sound from an exhaust perspective? I have to admit, I am going to really miss the deep rumble of my V8 engine. And I am not one of those guys with a crazy loud mustang exhaust that you typically see (not that there's anything wrong with it). My car has a Bassani X pipe and a Borla cat-back exhaust. It's very loud at wide open throttle, but has a nice mild rumble when just driving normal.

    I am concerned the 4 cyl Legacy engine is going to sound like a sportbike. At least the G35 has 3.5 liters of displacement and 6 cyl. The larger displacement and extra 2 cyl will deepen the sound over a 4 cyl engine with a liter less in displacement.

    At the end of the day, I know neither car will sound like a V8 Mustang. I just don't want the high-pitched motorcycle engine sound coming from my car. I used to have a Honda Prelude and while the engine screamed at 7000 rpms from inside the car, I thought the exhaust sounds weak from outside the car. And I hate the sound of those coffee can mufflers I often see on honda civics. Remember, it's just my preference so don't anyone become offended.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Posts: 4,487
    are a function of the firing pattern and exhaust system design, not engine size/displacement. I have heard numerous Subaru Boxer 4-cyl engines (including the one on my WRX with the Prodrive muffler) that sound better than most V8 or V6 engines. Similarly, V-10 engines with dual exhaust sound horrible even if they have a huge displacement. It's the way the pistons fire and how the exhaust pulses sound (by the way, an H-pipe connector will solve the V-10 problem for the most part).

    The exhaust on the Legacy GT is pretty restrained, but it still sounds great. After market mufflers would likely make it sound even better.

  • My two cents. All three cars have similairities. They are all sporty, sophisticated/ luxurious and practicle.

    I would rank the TL as the most luxurious. Great gadgets between the bluetooth, DVD-A and the interior and exterior styling is the best of the three. That said I found the car unbalanced and expensive.

     The Legacy GT is the most practicle. Its AWD and a wagon and with a 2 dogs and three kids its the car I should get. Its drivability is good but I didn't love the manual (not slick) and the engine wasn't bad but not as powerful as i expected. Interior and exterior styling improved but not as good as the others.

    The TSX is the most drivable. Great slick 6 spd manual, excellent suspension and high reving engine. Inerior styling nice, exterior somewhat bland and not anywhere near as practicle as the subaru.

    I am still going forward with the TSX. I should probably opt for the subaru due to its great value and practicality but for me i rank driveability as top priority.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    No way would I agree with that statement, and I've driven both. I guess it depends on you definition of driveability...

  • I guess its a matter of personal preference. I felt like the Legacy GT was more like a family car gone sporty and the TSX more of a true sports car with 4 doors. Don't miss understand me the Legacy is a great deal and I would buy one tomorrow for my wife, but not for me.
  • tsytsy Posts: 1,551
    I would agree with Bob. The Honda MT is a little 'slicker' (is that a word?) than the GT, but not significantly. There's no way a fwd TSX has better handling than the awd GT, and then if you look at hp and torque, the GT is in a totally different league.

    The legacy may be a family car gone sporty (who cares? some of us have families with kids- who love riding in my car by the way) but the TSX is an Accord (epitome of family car?) rebadged and come to America- certainly not a sports car.

    I've been slowly pushing the cornering limits of my GT and am getting a little scared because it's got power and it can corner and I don't know what it's limits are yet (I did get it to understeer a little going into a sharp turn too fast though). No, it's not an RX-8 (no power, but handles well) but fun to push into the corners and see what you can get away with. No way you can to the same things with a fwd TSX.

    Once again, the TSX is a nice car, I'm thinking about getting one for my father, but if your definition of driveability is sporty, what's your definition of sporty? ;-)

  • I give up. The GT wins. I'll go buy two (his and hers) tomorrow.

    That way my wife will be able to speed past your dad off the line.
  • tsytsy Posts: 1,551
    She wouldn't need a GT to speed past my dad. A bicycle would do ;-)!

    Please don't take offense. Just posting opinions. Like I said, I like the TSX, it's just not a comparable car any more than a GT would be comparable to the new M5.

    I think I'll be quiet for a while.

  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Hey folks, we are here to discuss our differing opinions - that's what this conversation is all about.

    No need to "be quiet for a while" and conversely, no need for anyone to take these posts personally.

    We're all entitled to our opinions, and all opinions are welcome here.

    IOW, it's all good.

  • OK I feel better now. They are both different cars, and both great values. I can buy the TSX for 25.2, and my guess is the GT limited will run 29ish?? So perhaps we are comparing apples to oranges.

    Car and Driver loves the TSX but it wouldn't surprise me to see the GT on their top ten list next year. I guess I am still up in the air on which one to buy. To really confuse things, what I really want is a BMW 330xi, but that would run 36-38.
  • kenjabikenjabi Posts: 76
    To really confuse things, what I really want is a BMW 330xi, but that would run 36-38.

    36-38 for a 330xi? Where are you finding that? I mean, I guess it's technically possible, but it seems every new 330xi I've seen on lots has at least the premium package, automatic, and metallic paint, so they're stickering for more than 42.5k. Even with the current BMW incentives, you're still looking at ~40k.

    I probably won't be in the market for a new car for another year or two, but two cars that I'm already looking at are the Legacy GT and 330i. But I've pretty much resigned to the fact that if I wan't the 330, I'll have get it used to stay in my budget. Oh well, by the time I'm ready to buy, the new 3-series will probably be out, and I have a feeling I won't like it as much anyway.
  • I've seen some comments that suggest the 2005 Legacy GT should be a good vehicle for driving in snow. I live in upstate NY, and my experience has been that low profile tires such as the ones that are standard on the GT are always miserable in snow on FWD vehicles. Does AWD make enough of a difference, or will the Legacy GT still require 4 snow tires to be safe?
  • krzysskrzyss Posts: 845
    will make Legacy safer. AWD helps you to go forward, some even say to make turns but nobody says it helps in slowing down.

  • Thought I would drop in my 2 cents on a few issues to gather opinions.

    First, in the market for a new sports sedan, my wife and I drove:
    2004 BMW 325i auto
    2004.5 Volvo S40 T5 auto
    2004 Nissan Maxima 3.5 SE auto
    2004 Acura TL manual
    2004 Acura TSX manual
    2005 M-B 230 Kompressor sedan auto
    2004 Cadillac CTS auto
    2004 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP auto

    We were on our way to test the Lexus IS300 when we decided to stop in to the Subaru dealership to check out the Forester XT since I had seen what I believed to be nearly impossible performance numbers out of a station wagon/SUV.
    We immediately saw and fell in love with the Legacy GT. What an improvement over the past Subaru's styling. Very sporty and mature. Not just for the young go fast crowd like the WRX, but will work with them as well.
    Of all the aforementioned cars I drove the Subaru blew them away on performance. I was working to not redline the car in every gear! It wanted to RUN!
    The only comparible car in my opinion was the TL because it just had a lot of muscle. However, the driving experience was totally different. In the TL, I felt disassociated with the road and the feel was not there. The Legacy was in touch with the road, communicating very well, while not making me feel every bump.
    I would say for the money there is no better sports sedan on the road today.
    PLUS, if you lease one (we did) you get free scheduled maintenance for 3/36. Only BMW matches that right now.

    Also, I finally saw performance numbers at 5.8 sec 0-60. I feel this must be high. I will await the C&D impressions to be sure.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Posts: 4,487
    Congratulations!! I agree with all your comments spot-on.

  • ryanl1ryanl1 Posts: 55
    I agree and have purchased a GT LTD.Instead of maxima I compared the G35x but the interior of the Infiniti was it's downfall.Is it me or do all Nissan interiors look the same?I hated the look of the steering wheel buttons.I would have been content with the TL,TSX or G35x but I have a big smiley on my face when I go to work now.

    There was an article in our newspaper written about the G35x and it mentioned the only other awd car close to it in terms of performance/price/features was the Legacy GT but it had "less standard equipment".The writer forgot to compare the GT LTD with the G35x as he quoted the non LTD price.I almost felt like writing to the newspaper.

    Am chomping at the bit to go over 4000 revs and really enjoy using steering wheel buttons to shift.Only complaint so far is the lack of storage e.g. no sunglass holder.I use the cigarette tray as the coin holder.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I like those brochures, too.

    Kevin: we had a 626 sedan for our last car, and even though the seats split-folded, it's just not half as versatile as the Legacy wagon that replaced it. At least in our experience.

    Having the wider opening of a wagon/hatch plus the roof rack is nice, and honestly those would be hard to give up now.

    Boxers have a characteristic growl that's an essential part of their character, but the turbo actually smoothes it out a little, so IMO it's very mellow sounding. Aftermarket exhausts could address that, but I'd keep it stock for the quiet ride.

    3 series are nice but they nickel-and-dime you with options that Acura makes standard on their base models and Subaru includes in their Limited models. You just get much better value with the Japanese duo.

    G35x only comes with an automatic, which is a real bummer.

  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    "In the TL, I felt disassociated with the road and the feel was not there."

    That is very true indeed. Driving the TL is more visual than tactile, more so than any Honda model in my past experience. I guess there has to be a trade-off when you make a car more luxurious.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    IMO, the Legacy has one glaring omission if Subaru wants it to compete head-on with TL, G35, or the Germans -- memory seat for driver.
  • ryanl1ryanl1 Posts: 55
    You're not actually going to let someone else drive are you?:)I don't consider memory seat important at all.
    If you just compare awd vehicles the G35x makes you pay $2500 cdn more for premium package which then gets you sunroof,memory seat,dual zone climate contol which makes it 3k more than GT before taxes.
    On the day I picked up my car I saw 3 TL's and 2 G35's whereas before I would only see 1 of each a week.

    ps I got great service at Burrard Infiniti and North Shore Acura but indifferent/no service at Burrard Acura this time around.In fact all the dealers I dealt with were adequate or above average while Burrard Acura didn't seem to care at all about their attitude problem.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Subaru will gradually add a couple of features each year, it's what they've always done.

    My '98 Forester lacks about 10-12 things that the current ones have. I bet things like memory seats will be added to the Legacy.

    Nav is supposed to arrive next model year and on several models.

    FWIW, the Outback has some things standard that the Acura MDX lacks or offers only as an option. Basically Subarus are equipped for snow duty, so things like heated seats, heated mirrors, and windshield wiper de-icers are standard even on the base Outback and Legacy GT.

    Acuras are equipped for luxury duty, so they offer some extras but also lack the built-for-snow options that Subaru offers (AWD first and foremost).

  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    Actually I let no one else drive my car, but I have a quirky use for memory seats. I have one setting for winter and one setting for summer, and I switch remotes with the seasons. The reason is that I need slightly different seat positions for winter/summer due to the bulky clothing in the winter. Also, when you take your car in for service, with memory seats, you don't have to spend 10 minutes afterwards re-adjusting everything.

    As for Burrard Acura, I have actually been very pleased with their sales and service departments. I've been dealing with Katherine Grey and Stanley Fung in sales who have been super. I've also chatted with a couple of the other sales reps and they seemed pretty good too. So I'm kinda surprised you didn't get good service from them.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    10 minutes only if you have slow-moving power seats. Our 626 had those and I found them to be annoyingly slow. I actually prefer manual sliders.

    I think the base Legacy GT has those, but the GT Ltd has power seats (please correct me if I'm wrong).

This discussion has been closed.