Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Paying more than MSRP for (new) Hybrids, Depreciation/Value of used Hybrids
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Just posted yesterday. 2004 Prius package # 6 purchased with 17,000 miles. They bought it for under $20k. A good buy showing the actual resale value of the used Prius. Someone lost a lot of money in one year on that car. You keep saying hybrids are better. The only criteria I see for that is better mileage. There are cars that are better for emissions if that is your main reason for buying a car. For me usefulness and handling are far above mileage and emissions.
"Well, there you go again."
Once again, Gary, you have taken the sale of ONE SINGLE CAR and proclaimed the resale market of Hybrids as "showing the actual resale value of a used Prius."
As I have told you before, "one car sale does not a trend create."
Look at Edmund's TMV, which if you look at the details of where TMV comes from, it is based on CUMULATIVE ACTUAL DEALER SALES NUMBERS.
So I ask you to riddle me this, Gar-Man: is one instance of a car selling for a great price a valid indicator that ALL CARS of that model will sell for a low price?
(hint: no )
I think the owners of the vehicles are a pretty decent indicator - a 94% "would buy again" rating for the Prius speaks volumes....
Should have a license plate frame made to read:
"My Other Car is NOT an SUV"!
SUV's eat your heart out at your 13mpg guzzler's...
Patrick
Santa Monica, Ca :shades:
The other option is I can take the name-callers and make them read-only. If you like, I can do that. I really don't want to close the discussion because 3-4 members just can't behave themselves.
If after 6 months, we determine the car is not the right fit, I think we'll have no trouble selliing it. we'll probably take a smaller hit on depreciation because the used HH supply will be scarce initially- this way we don't pay the "hybrid premium" because the amount we lost in that 6-12 month period should be comparable (perhaps less) than had we bought a gas-highlander.
As far as resale values go for the long term, after checking my crystal ball, I think resale of hybrids will fall in line with other cars. either the hybrids are a fad and production will slow down or stop, therefore the supply will eventually meet the demand (zero). or the hybrids are for real, and as popularity increases, so will production and again things will equal out.
troy
I bought my HCH becaue I would end up with the same monthly payment as I had for my Saturn VUE (6cyl, AWD), and end up filling a smaller tank fewer times each month -- therefore having a new positive cash flow considering that I live on a fixed income.
"An unusual or high value: Employers put a premium on honesty and hard work."
It is something you receive which has additional benefits.
In this case, the benefits of hybrids being "better gas mileage, lower emissions, better resale value, lower cost of fueling, the ability to achieve incredible (92 mpg for Insight) fuel efficiency, ability to automatically AutoStop at red lights, tax deductions, HOV privileges (depending on state), reduced foreign oil dependency, act as a portable A/C generator (Chevy/GM hybrid pickups), ability to drive up to 30 mph on battery alone (Escape Hybrid), etc etc."
1. better gas mileage
2. lower emissions
3. better resale (???)
4. better gas mileage
5. better gas mileage
6. better gas mileage
7. Tax deductions (offset by higher price, so questionable as an advantage)
8. HOV lanes (where?)
9. better gas mileage
10. portable generator (w/o much better gas mileage)
11. better gas mileage
7. Zero tax deduction for non hybrid drivers means anything a hybrid driver gets is gravy.
8. HOV lanes in Virginia.
10. 19 MPG versus 17 MPG - not much, but better than nothing at all.
12-99. Better gas mileage !!
Well, yeah, but that's because a DX costs less than a LX which costs less than an EX which costs less than a Hybrid. It's the depreciation that's key.
Didn't know Virginia allowed hybrids in HOV lanes. Good if you live in Virginia.
I hope that those who've bought hybrids ARE satisfied with the value received. Eventually, that may lead to the production of better hybrids that approach cost parity with conventional alternatives and I may consider a hybrid. But I won't attempt to justify the purchase in economic terms unless the premium is diminished to the point that it can be recovered in fuel cost savings within a reasonable period. That is far from the case today.
my bad.....:)
Use our Used Car Appraiser and see what the various numbers are - - - - trade-in, private party and dealer retail (what the dealer sells it for after they buy it from you).
You can throw in whatever numbers you want to the equation. I think for the HCH, the numbers will probably be even more favorable. I just briefly checked the price difference of a 2003 EX vs Hybrid and there appears to be a $3000 difference in resale value- LARSB quuotes only a $1500 difference in price when new. so theoretically, you would save $1500 plus the savings in gas by buying a hybrid and driving only 2 years.
1. What will the market bear on a vehicle with potential $5000 repair?
2. How long will that battery really last?
3. Will there be vehicles costing less to drive per month (lease) than the crap shoot of buying a used gas/electric?
No one...and don't quote statistics on best evidence because the evidence of resale on Hybrids was and IS driven by what the dealers are willing to pay...since there are few vehicles to be had...and fewer customers doing the CO on those vehicles....the future looks rosy!!
My wife had a Prius for 9,700 miles...it was everything it was cracked up to be...except it liked to eat front tires...after the third set we returned the car...the newest Prius...hopefully addresses the front end weight on a vehicles tires...that are sorely pressed to take that kind of transfer of energy. Miles per gallon was unreal, even in the cold climbs of Minnesota...and there is something delightful about being snuck up on...by a car in your own driveway...but it had issues that couldn't be resolved by the design at hand. And therein lies the problem with discussing the Hybrids re-sale; what happens when the engineers get it right? What happens to all their "practice" cars? If I knew that...I would be in a gold domed palace outside of Detroit, and each night, on their way home, the domestic auto moguls would pay homage to me.....
My friend just called me and said he was at a dealership down in Fort Lauderdale and was looking at the Ford Escape Hybrid. The dealer wanted $10k over list for the vehicle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is why Ford will NOT succeed with hybrids. Their dealers are too greedy. I know this was an issue with Toyota too, but it is MORE blatant with Ford. If hybrid technology is to succeed, we have to prevent this gouging.
Not just Ford. One gentleman just bought a Lexus RX400h and the dealer wanted $15k over MSRP. He gave the guy a real deal at $10k over MSRP. If people would just hold their anxiety and let the dealers sit on these cars the prices would come into line. My local Honda Dealer wanted $3000 premium on Accord Hybrids & Odyssey EX models. They sat a long time till a sucker came along.I find it a sad state of affairs and one reason I have gotten turned off by the hybrid craze. If Toyota was as concerned with the environment as they say, they would stop this overcharging. I don't believe for a minute that they cannot influence the dealers to stick with MSRP.
Once again, I already toll ya:
Toyota FROWNS upon overcharging and REWARDS dealers who do not do that with extra vehicles (extra profit).
They talk with the checkbook and hit those guys in the pocketbook.
I got an email from a fleet dealer that said:
"We wanted to let you know about a special shipment we received from Toyota for not selling the Prius over MSRP."
We dont know about the foreseeable future. If you look at current hybrid resales they are nothing short of brilliant. But that is merely a reflection of two things:
1)The novelty of hybrid technology
2) Low supply of new hybrids
In the future hybrid technology will be as unique as anti-lock brakes and the supply of hybrids will be plenty. Also the obsolesence of current hybrid technologies in the future may occur faster than other automotive technologies.
Not a promising prognosis for future resales! Dont you think so?
As to concerns about batteries, that too seems unfounded. Toyota has stood behind their batteries from day one and the warrantee says volumes as to the reputation of them.
The Prius and its sales have skyrocketed these last few months and the lines are still forming to purchase them. Seems there's no end in sight for the Prius and its popularity.
Railroadjames( a car for the times)
The ICE in the Prius is 76 hp. I'll take all the Toyota stock I can get!
jprice SoCal '05 Silver, #1, 4400 miles, [non-permissible content removed]. mileage 45.5MPG
I didn't say "a car with a 76 hp ICE", I said "a 76 hp car". You are aware, aren't you, that the IMA adds a fair amount of additional hp to the total?
I think the premium that some people are willing to pay for cars in general have really resulted in vastly higher car prices than we should be looking at, and at the moment, I think that hybrid offerings are in the same boat. As long as there is a portion of the buying population, that's willing to pay EXTRA to have it now, there's no reason to expect anything but higher prices. If I was a manufacturer, and people are clamoring to buy something from me at a higher price than I put on the vehicle, why wouldn't I milk that for all it's worth??
The "I gotta have it" folks also seem prone to disappointment when the product doesn't quite match their expectations. The Lexus RX400h thread comes to mind...
I'll try to bring up paying more than MSRP at the chat tonight and see what everyone has to say. Stop in and put in your two cents!
PF Flyer
Host
News & Views, Wagons, & Hybrid Vehicles
The Subaru Crew Chat is on tonight. The chat room opens at 8:45PM ET Hope to see YOU there! Check out the schedule
When a car is NOT in demand, and dealer's are sitting on 90 days worth of inventory, I don't think anyone here would have any problem with trying to get a car below factory invoice, dipping into whatever holdback may be on the car. After all, the law of supply/demand holds: large supply, low demand = great prices for the buyer.
So why should anyone get irate at the opposite? High demand and low supply will NATURALLY mean higher prices. Why not higher than MSRP? MSRP is, after all, a purely arbitrary number set by the manufacturer and has next to nothing to do with the 'real' cost associated with the vehicles manufacturer. If demand for the car at MSRP is outstripping supply, then why WOULDN'T the dealer ask for more than MSRP?
If the asking price is higher than you want to pay, DON'T BUY. Why is this so difficult to stomach?
Some want to make a case that the extra you pay for a hybrid will be made up in the gas you save while you own the vehicle. I don't think that's the case if you buy at MSRP, nevermind at MSRP+
Although, as we can say in a lot of these topics... your mileage and opinion may vary!
The bad thing about the Prius is that the 76 hp ICE makes it almost the slowest Toyota around the best performance is 0-60 in 10.2 seconds with a full charge.
More on topic: HAHs were selling $2,000 below MSRP now they have crept back up in price becuase of gas higher than $2.00 a gallon.
And Priuses or Priui are available, without wait, at MSRP sporadiaclly if you are not picky about colors or options.
The key item I have found is how quick you want hte car
anyway I like Honda's 240 hp ICE 6-speed
later,
MidCow
Is is all about MSRP and paying less or more. The 6-speed Accord Coupe with NAV was right at invoice. The car was a couple of hundred less, but with options they wee in between invoice and MSRP. The TL without nAV was $1,500 under MSRP and only $500 under with NABV due to NAvs popilarity.
I would have gotten the HAH if it had a manual shift. Could have bought one with NAV for $31K.
I think have seen the pricing and wait on the Prius come down as the latent demand is satisfied and there are more and more alternatives. In 2006 the prices will fall as the Jazz, A3, and BMW series 2 become avialalbe. They will fall even further when low sulpher diesel is available and Honda and BMW import diesels.
Now the true test on hybrids will be when the current set ( not the genration OPrius I, too few) begin approaching the traction battery warranty limits , 8years, 80,000 miles 9 oh yes CA 10 years 100,000). Since the real influx was 2 years ago and the average driver ( i am not sure any hyper-miler is really average) drives 15,000 to 20,000 miles per year The battery life will really be tested in 4-5 years from 2003 or 2007-2008. If resale begins to fall, which most are predicting it will, then you will no longer have to pay above MSRP or even MSRP for hybrids.
If you paided above MSRP, just consider yourself an early innovator.
Cheers,
MidCow crus'n in 6th :shades:
P.S. - I once paid $800 over MSRP for a Honda 1500 GL