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What Wagon Would You Like To See Offered?



  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Posts: 252
    The Acura RL wagon rendering is very nice :) :D
  • 96corolla96corolla Posts: 94
    I agree that Subby and Mazda's are more fun to drive and have better styling then camry/accord...well not sure about Subaru, I don't really think the legacy wagon styling is vert "hot". Anyway, I think the problem people have is two fold - 1. reliability and 2. common sense. Even though you may disagree, many people just think that Toyota and Honda have unmatched reliability so even if the car may not be as exciting, they still go with them due to the percieved reliability. THAT is why many folks are looking for the toyo or honda wagon. Second, folks are disappointed because with the emergence of sporty wagons, it is only a natural progression that toyo and honda should have them. It should be common sense, yet they don't seem to be making a move. Why??? That is the confusing...and disappointing part.

    For example, if the Corolla had a hatch, similar to the 3, I'd likely buy the Corolla. Maybe I'm a fool and the 3 would be just as reliable, but you go with what you know/think and that is the perception that is out there for many people. So, that is why even though I agree that many of the cars are "soul-less", people will always buy them.
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 3,023
    I currently own a Mazda6 wagon and I had a Subaru before that, so I'm not biased against those companies. That being said, if Honda had an Accord wagon when I was looking last fall, I probably would have bought it. II really like the Accord sedan and don't find it soulless at all (Camry is another story-- a little floaty for my taste, but you can't beat its reliability and obviously many Americans really like it). I do think they are more reliable (definitely than Subaru, which I had lots of problems with). Mazda is better but so far I don't like the gas mileage. That's why I think a hybrid Accord wagon would be great. Bigger than the little wagons like Matrix but not so large as the Freestyle or Magnum, you wouldn't lose the power like you do with a 4 cyl, and the reputation of Honda. I'm also surprised that Honda hasn't come out with one because both companies made them in the early 90's.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,469
    The Mazdas are nice vehicles, but the 6 wagon is a gas guzzler - may as well buy a minivan. The 3 is a hatchback and not a wagon. It has half the cargo area of a wagon. A real wagon is the same length as the sedan. Vehicles like the 3 and the Vibe are shorter than the sedan.
  • 96corolla96corolla Posts: 94
    There seems to definately be demand....why aren't toyota and honda listening??? That is what is so preplexing!

    People say the 6 wagon is so nice yet you don't see many on the road. Probably because of the gas guzzling and small reliability concerns. I think if Honda or Toyo had something similar they would be all over the roads. It just seems so obvious that these guys are missing a MAJOR market opportunity.
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 3,023
    the 6 wagon is a gas guzzler - may as well buy a minivan

    Not that bad! I am now getting around 20 mpg in-town driving and 24 highway, definitely better than minivan but not as good as I would like.

    you don't see many on the road

    Well, it's only been out a year and many people had kind of forgotten about Mazda after the late 90's. It takes time to recover from a drop like that. I do see sales are up, and apparently they're very popular overseas. So they're back on track at least.

    I agree that Honda and Toyota are missing the boat, but don't diss the 6! It's a great wagon and a lot of fun to drive. If they improve the gas mileage by the time Honda and Toyota finally get with it, they could have a real edge in this market. The hatch is also unusual in America and also in a good market position because of that.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • 96corolla96corolla Posts: 94
    I agree with your comments. I don't diss the 6 or Mazda. I like Mazda, just not as comfortable with Mazda as I'd be with a Toyo or Honda. I LOVE the 6 wagon and if it had better mileage I'd probably get one.

    All in all, we agree.

    What did you pay for your 6? It seems that they are discounting it so much that you can almost get a 6 wagon for not much more then a 3 hatch. Maybe I'm way off, but that is what I've been reading...could be wrong. That's why I'm curious what you paid.
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 3,023
    For prices you should probably head over to the "prices paid" forum. But briefly, I think all the incentives are on leftover '04s, people are not reporting much on deep discounts for '05s.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,469
    My minivan gets as high as 30 hwy, and never under 22. The 4,600 lb Honda Odyssey with its huge frontal area and fairly high drag and 3.5 liter V-6 gets better mpg than the 3,400 lb sleek little Mazda 6 wagon with good aerodynamics and a smaller 3.0 liter engine. I like everything else about the 6 (well almost - hard to get over the trendy silver plastic) but the gas mileage is terrible for this day and age.

    Mazda 6 20/27 and 19/26 depending on tranny.

    A Chevy Malibu with a 3.5 liter V-6 gets 22/32.
    A Buick Lesabre with a 3.8 gets 20/29
    The huge new Avalon with a 280 hp 3.5 liter V-6 gets 22/31
    BMW 530i gets 20/30
    Even a Corvette gets 18/28 with a 6.0 liter V-8 that has 400 hp. :surprise:

    The list is long. In fact I can't think of a v-6 car that gets worse mpg than the 6. Hopefully Mazda will work on the engine. The 3 on the other hand is very efficient - at least in 2.0 liter form. If they made the 3 as a real wagon (a little more cargo room) and offered it with the 2.0 that would probably be my top choice for vehicles right now.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 7,770
    While you mention that you'd like to see a 3 wagon, the rest of your post is pretty much off topic. If you'd like to discuss those vehicles and the mileage they get, please use the search tools in the left sidebar to find the topics for those specific vehicles. Let's not drag this off into areas other than the "wish list wagon" we'd like to see. Thanks!

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  • dmcmahondmcmahon Posts: 26
    I am just amazed at the number of people who say that they want an Accord or Camry wagon, while we have some nice wagon options out there currently.

    One problem is, those "nice" wagons are on the small side. If you want a vehicle that seats 4 American adults comfortably, you're out of luck with most of them. Also, the best of the small wagons (the Mazda 6) is a gas-guzzler for reasons I can't fathom (OK, it's efficient compared to SUV alternatives, but a car with its low Cd and a 3.0 V6 should be capable of 20/30 EPA or better). Finally, I think people long for a Toyota or Honda designed wagon because those companies are currently at the top of the reliability heap, and (together with Nissan) seem to have the best powertrains (high performance and high efficiency).

    My last car was a 94 Camry wagon. It was reasonably powerful and got OK gas mileage for the day, was very versatile, was roomy without being too huge to manuever in traffic or park, and was extremely reliable. Best car I ever owned. I was saddened to see Toyota turn to the dark side (along with everyone else except the Euros) and embrace minivans and the SUV as wagon replacements. Not everyone that values versatility in a vehicle wants one that handles like a van, or worse, a truck. The wagon hits a sweet spot for people that want to get as close as possible to sedan performance and handling, but still want the flexibility to haul stuff around once in a while.

    When age finally caught up with it late last year, I could only really find a car in that same class by going Euro (MB E-series, BMW 5-series, Audi A6, Volvo). Unfortunately most of those marques have slipped in reliability. And they're big bucks, which would be a problem for most wagon buyers. That kinda left either downsizing to the Subaru, Mazda 6, Malibu Maxx, or downsizing even further to the Matrix, Vibe, or something similar. In a Toyota, the closest I can come is the Prius, which does have a 5th door, but is of a size comparable to the smaller wagons; unfortunately it's a bit underpowered.

    Actually, if they offered a true wagon body for the Prius, I'd probably have bought it despite the somewhat weak powertrain. As it stands, the sloping rear roofline means adults hit their heads against the hatch in the back seat; they should reshape it to look like a smaller version of the back end of the Lexus RX. I considered the Lexus RX400h, and am actually still on the wait list for it even though I threw in the towel last month and bought a GS sedan with comfortable seating for 4 but no cargo versatility. What I'd really like is a wagon the same size as my old 94 Camry, or the current MB E-series wagon, with FWD, a full hybrid powertrain (Toyota's or something similar), and with build quality similar to or better than the Camry of old (or, and I can dream, of quality comparable to my GS).

    BTW my Camry was built in Lexington, Kentucky, so it ain't like American workers can't build a good car. Where domestic manufacturers seem to be blowing it is in design of both vechicles and important components (especially powertrains). Too many years of raking in the bucks on gargantuan gas-wasting truck-platform SUVs, maybe.
  • billmchalebillmchale Posts: 107
    I personally would like to see new additional choices in the small wagon segment. Other than Subaru, and the Matrix/Vibe twins, there is not much selection among the more reliable makes (guess it all depends on how you rate Ford). I can see good reasons for an Accord/Camry wagon and I think Honda should being over the Euro-Accord Estate as a TSX wagon :).

  • dialm4speeddialm4speed Posts: 110
    The ultimate wagon.... errr sports tourer or whatever is already on the market. It's called the Magnum and it has a HEMI! The could improve it by adding the NAV system from the Pacifica (perfect placement for a NAV system) and offering a 6 speed manual tranny.
  • karguy427karguy427 Posts: 2
    You need a Ford Country Squire - built off the Crown Victoria platform of course. With the 4.6 it's got plenty of power for long hauls. Gas mileage should be fairly decent, too. Unfortunately, Ford will never build it (or a Grand Marquis Colony Park). it would compete with the Freestyle.
  • karguy427karguy427 Posts: 2
    Very nice! if i may....a suggested change: (I can't draw) Have the back glass wrap around to the sides (maybe a 3-window treatment like the old '57 Oldsmobile HT's). Have the line for the rear pillar be in line with the angled vertical edge of the taillamp.
  • magneezomagneezo Posts: 15
    "Ford Focus Wagon Has Turned to Junk".......?
    OK. That does it.
    Go buy a Suzuki Forenza Wagon. There is your SMART Choice.
    Forenza is Car and Drivers Best Top 10 Pick.
    It has won awards 5 years in a Row.
    It is built by Daewoo, Korea.
    It used to be called Nubira.
    Maybe you'll be the NewBuyer (Nubiar)
    SoSucki has had numerous issues with the car, but they do sell.
    It was penned by Peninfarina.....then someone dug that one out of the waste bin and said 'here ya go' (Design houses have trash cans too...)
    You can get a used Nubira Wagon for $2000.
    I've owned a Ford Focus SE wagon since Feb. '03.
    It has been the most enjoyable small car I've ever owned.
    Don't be fool enough to get an '05 though, if you want one, my advice would be to get an '03 ZTW with less tha 20,000 miles for no more than $11,000 and make sure all Maint records are there. The '03 was the deal, after that they started trimming bits and pieces, and the rebates on the '05 only bring it down to the '03 price. (what I paid $17,900 for now costs close to $19,500)
    The '03 Focus is a HIGHLY RELIABLE small wagon.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,104
    I want choices in midsized wagons with 3 rows of seating!

    I really only see 2 out there that come close: The new Benz R-class and the Chrysler Pacifica. The Benz is $50K!! And the Chrysler is... well... a Chrysler. I'm not saying its bad, but choices would be nice. Oh, and you can get the Volvo V70 with a 3rd row, but, again, its a bit pricey. I'd love to see Nissan/Toyota/Honda offer a 3 row wagon. I'd even be happier if Mazda added one to the 6. But I'd definitely be happiest with an Accord wagon with jumper seats.

    And, yes, I know about the Mazda5, but it really is more of a minivan. Besides, my wife thinks its ugly, and i'm disappointed they don't offer leather.

    By the way, I'm predicting the Benz will fail in our market and they'll respond with "americans just don't want wagons" rather than realizing we don't want a $50K wagon!

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • "The Benz is $50K!! And the Chrysler is... well... a Chrysler."

    Chrysler & Mercedes = Same company what's your point??
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,104
    they are part of the conglomerate, yes, but don't kid yourself and think you are buying a Benz when you buy a Chrysler. Something like a Crossfire, ok, its got alot of Benz parts, but that's an exception, not a rule (so far).

    Don't take it personally, I just bought a Pacifica this weekend, so I'm not exactly trashing Chrysler. I hope it holds up better than I expect and proves my misconceptions wrong. I already know resale on this vehicle is horrible, but we can get out of it in 3 years if we choose. If the wife continues to love it, we'll keep it longer than that.

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • From what I've read in several recent articles is that Chrysler is doing better than Mercedes quality wise. I just think a car is only as good as you take care of it. But either way happy motoring! :)
  • I wish Honda sold their Accord wagon here. It's sold in many other parts of the world.

    I own a 2005 Outback Limited (not a turbo)... The Limited apparently means limited in comfort.
    After 1 year I can't take the uncomfortable driver's seat anymore. The side bolsters are causing hip problems! My coworker just leased a 2006 passat. That is an extremely comfortable car.
    But VW's are expensive to maintain :(

    The Honda Accord EX is very comfortable and if their wagon was available ... I would have probably chosen that over the Subaru.
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Posts: 654
    Both Honda and Toyota did Accord and Camry wagons. Accord 1991-97 and Camry 1992-96.
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Posts: 654
    Yeah like that's going happen! The next thing you know they'll make a 4-door 911...minivan?...pick up?...station wagon> to go along with it.
  • I just bought a 01 Volvo V70 T5 Wagon and during my many test drives and research I determined that the car that I want is not made. So I got another volvo! My dream car would be:

    A Japanese Station Wagon (or at least a wagon with [non-permissible content removed]. reliability) with a high quality interior, it must have the seat comfort of a volvo, a usable third row seat and a turbo diesel engine.

    Are you listening........ somebody build me one!
  • So I guess my 2004 Rio Cinco is a S/W? The 2006 Rio5 is a hatchback? That's the way I look at it.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,104
    it must have the seat comfort of a volvo

    well now you're just being unreasonable. Might as well ask for gold bars in the trunk while you're at it. ;)

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • I have to agree with a lot of the posts here that an Accord/Camry wagon would be very well received now. I've heard that the Accord wagon, when it was available, did poorly in sales, but I think that as much of a timing problem as anything else.
    In the 90's the SUV market was getting into full swing and everybody had to have one. SUV's were also the "exciting" option for those who found mini-vans too uncool.
    More and more folks are waking up to the reality that both SUV's and mini-vans are expensive animals to feed and are looking for something that can transport people and cargo at a more economical pace.
    3 years ago we were looking for a wagon with decent gas milage and a reasonable sized cargo area at a reasonable price. What was available? Subaru wagons are the right size, but on the expensive side. Same for Saab Audi, Volvo, BMW and VW. The Mazda Protoge5 and the Toyota Matrix were attractive, reliable, and priced right, but had very small cargo areas. I hadn't heard good things about Saturn (don't mean to offend).
    One that really stood out was the Focus wagon. I was very nervous about buying Ford since I had been with Toyotas and Hondas for so long, but the mileage was good, the cargo was roomy and the price was right (I got a 2002 se wagon for 14,200). I figured with the money I saved over a Subaru, it could break down quite a few times and still be more economical.
    So far, we've been happy with it. Came with a boatload of options, and with standard shift, it performs very well; we've got 80k on it now. The Automatic we drove was much louder on the highway and much less responsive.
    Still, if Honda or Toyota had offered a wagon, I would have bought it then, and I would now! An Accord/Camry wagon offered in both 4 cylinder (my choice) and 6 would sell well here, I'm sure... the new 2.2 liter diesel engine available in Europe would also be very desirable.
    Mitsubishi was offering a decent size 4cyl. wagon last year (Sportback) that I was excited about, but that was pulled in '05. Why? I think that was due more to lack of awareness than anything else... did anyone ever see a commercial for one?
    Anyway, I vote for a suite of Civic/Accord & Camry/Corolla wagons! Yeah! (it's funny what I get excited about now that I'm 40...)
  • ergoergo Posts: 56
    Our Wagon Wishlist is filled...all these Crossover wagons are pouring in! :shades:

    1. 2006/7 Jeep Compass (A Subaru WRX Rally type vehicle)
    2. 2006 Dodge Caliber (AWD, 5 sp manual, VW Diesel engine!) Shares a platform w/ Mitsubishi.
    3. 2006 Chevrolet HHR (Wonderfully priced Cobalt wagon!)
    4. 2006 Chevrolet Malibu Maxx SS. (Great wagon. Wow!)
    5. Saab's Sport Combi. (9-3 based)
    6. Ford's Freestyle. (Such a HUGE improvement!)

    Still wish VW would of done a NEW Jetta Wagon! :cry: Apparently the nod was given to the new crossover SUV thingy instead.

    1. Cadillac's SRX is great. Can tow 4,250lbs!
    2. BMW has released a 3 and 5 series wagon.
    3. Audi's excellent A3 also.
    4. VW Passat Estate is due very soon.

    So, these new wagons should be enough to fulfill anyone's wishlist! ;)

    Enjoy the Holiday...
  • asafonovasafonov Posts: 403
    I realized I would really want the NA-market Accord be morphed in a 6-seater "estate" wagon - if Mazda can offer a miniminivan based on compact Focus/Mazda3, I would think the one based on the Accord should be better in most respects - a little roomier, stronger 4-cylinder engine, better reputation and resale, lower insurance and repair costs and (arguably) better reliability.
  • fondafitfondafit Posts: 3
    As far as I'm concerned I have been privileged to own both the Accord and Civic wagons. I tried out a Subaru Outback (used -- the price of a new one is absurd) and found the engine extremely noisy on the highway. The salesman admitted it was only partially due to its age. New ones get gas mileage that barely matches my 11 year old Accord (26-27 mpg mixed use). I tried out the Forester, which has been touted as the best small SUV, and didn't care for the wind noise. Its cargo space is less than the Outback/Legacy. In its first few years my Accord got about 32 mpg, and I'm not a conservative driver. It met my needs -- carrying soccer kids, pets, garden supplies, etc. The Civic was incredible for cargo space and ahead of its time for gas consumption (easily 36-40 mpg). I'm going to check out the Honda Fit, which is versatile, and about $2,000 less than my Accord cost me back in 1995. Honda, why in the world are you ignoring the huge fan base for the true wagon? Is it because we tend to keep our wagons forever and don't trade them in? Maybe if there were more choices out there we wouldn't hold onto them for dear life! I see old station wagons out on the roads, but not many of the good ones up for sale.
This discussion has been closed.