it is faster that the new mustang the number's might not say but i have driven both and let me tell you the mustang sucks and i mean sucks handling sucks acceleration sucks braking sucks the car sucks the dodge charger is 3 grand more and it was as fast with 5 people it i swear to god it handles better i thought the mustang was better than that but i was dissapointing it say the least.
I ran into one of my co-workers, who is a Charger nut (he's had 3 '66'es in the past and is currently working on getting another) at an employee meeting. Usually I'll run into him at the Mopar Nationals in Carlisle, but somehow this time I missed him.
He started ragging on the car, and when I told him that, next time around, I'm thinking about buying one, well he just gave me this look...like his first-born bore more of a resemblance to me than to him or something! :surprise:
I also found out that someone printed up a whole bunch of t-shirts that said in big bold letters "THE NEW CHARGER SUCKS!" and people were wearing them around, going up to where Chrysler was sponsoring a test drive event where they had, among other cars, a few Chargers. I didn't see anybody at the show wearing a shirt like that, though, so either there really weren't very many, or he was just making it up.
Anyway, I told him to just think of the new car as a replacement for the Intrepid, and the Dynasty before that, and the Diplomats and and bigger K-car variants before that, and the old Coronets before that. There just is no market for a 2-door specialty coupe anymore...it's simply not feasible to build. So as a result, the Charger had to fill the role of a mass-market family car. And to be honest, if you're going to dig up a Dodge name from the past, "Charger" is probably about the best one to use. "Magnum" was also cool, but they already dug that one back up. "Mirada" is a cool name too, and they built so few of them that very few people probably remember it. But then, that's part of the problem...the name has no history or intrigue to it like the Charger does. And other names, like Coronet, Monaco, Diplomat, etc, just sound kind of frumpy and don't really portray a sporty image. At best, most of them portray a police car image, but that's about it.
"Challenger" was a cool name too, but let's face it, that's one name that WOULD be innapropriate to put on a largish 4-door sedan.
"I also found out that someone printed up a whole bunch of t-shirts that said in big bold letters "THE NEW CHARGER SUCKS!" and people were wearing them around, going up to where Chrysler was sponsoring a test drive event where they had, among other cars, a few Chargers."
That's real classy; did you ask if maybe they had some rear-window stickers printed up with Calvin peeing on a new Charger?
that we'll see stickers like that eventually! And I'm sure that when my co-worker gets his '66 Charger, it'll be sporting one! One thing that's funny about Chargers, is that while the car went through so many iterations over the years, most people seem to think that "their" Charger is the "correct" one. IMO, the Charger's peak was 1968-70. But you talk to a lot of the 66-67 Charger owners, and they hate what Dodge did to the car for '68! And then, of course, the '68-70 crowd tends to think that the '66-67 is the box that their car came in! And same with the '71-74 generation. I wonder if there is yet enough of a following for those Charger S/Es yet for those people to think their Charger is the best? Or those little Omni-based ones? Actually, those little Omni suckers do have a following among the tuner crowd
....I'm always mystified at how the hard-core Mopar people frequently feed on their own. I mean the Chrysler muscle cars (in automotive timespans) had all the durability of a breath mint...you'd think they'd want to savor it as much as possible.
Mustang enthusiasts tend to like or at least respect all Mustang iterations for what they were/are (some of us even secretly like the Mustang II a little bit...but don't say it out loud... )
Chrysler went from a lineup of crappy 4-cylinder K-cars to the new Hemi powered cars in a little over 10 years. I would think the faithful would be ecstatic. I guess they could have done a "pure" Charger that would have sold in limited numbers for two or three years, but I think what they have come up with is a much better plan for long term viability.
would have been for Chrysler to offer the Charger sedan, but call it something else. They could've just kept calling it Intrepid. After all, that's what it replaced. Or, they could've just called it Magnum. Sure, they have the Magnum wagon, but there's no law saying a model can't have two (or more) body styles. Heck, once upon a time, they sometimes had 5 or 6!
But then, they could've used the platform to make a high-spec coupe and call that the Charger. Since it would share most of the important stuff with the sedan and wagon, it wouldn't cost THAT much to make. Now, to offer the Charger, just as a coupe, wouldn't work. But as long as they had some kind of sedan (just don't call it "Charger") to accompany it, and spread out the tooling/manufacturing costs, they would've been fine.
But, even as things are now, I'm not complaining. A Charger coupe would've been really cool, but I can't say that I'd put my money where my mouth is. After all, my head hits the ceiling in the back seat of the Charger as it is...that's coupe-ish enough for me already!
big coupes are a small market, so i guess d-c leveraged the charger name as best they could. i think they are doing a great job of making the most of the chrysler/dodge, to use a ford term 'heritage'. for the charger, that left a 4 door. to me a charger should be a bit more out front. after all, you can get more engine in a 300 srt8, and you can get the same engine as the charger in a jeep! the charger rt version still has turn down tips on the exhaust. a little more confidence would be better. although come to think of it, my '70 sport fury 4 door hardtop(383) and my dad's 340 demon had turn down tips, too.
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Actually I was surprised it wasn't named Magnum myself. I sure wish they would have and then we wouldn't have had to endure all the cry babies, saying it's "abusing" the Charger name. Beside if these cry babies were paying attention to new car sales, they would know 2-door coupes don't sell!
because the current Magnum is breaking tradition. I mean, it has NEVER been offered as a wagon before, so putting its name on a station wagon is more abusive than slapping around your red-headed stepchild!! :P
I know this has mentioned before, but I wonder if a lot of the crying will cease once the car has been out for awhile? I mean, remember the squealing that started when it was announced that Chevy was bringing back the Impala SS nameplate, and putting it on the bathtub/supository Caprice? Well, for the most part, that stopped pretty quick once the car was out.
Wasn't there a lot of whining going on about the 300M, too? V-6, FWD, and, mother of all shames, FOUR DOORS? (there were 4-door 300's, but NEVER a 4-door Letter Series) That seemed to calm down after awhile, too.
I remember, back in 1990, when the 4-door Grand Prix came out, thinking that it was just WRONG!! That wasn't a Grand Prix, I reasoned. It was a LeMans! But Pontiac had the LeMans name wrapped up in that little Korean travesty (now as a LeMans fan, that's one thing I still haven't forgiven Pontiac for! :P ) But, let's face it...by the late 80's and early 90's, personal luxury coupes just weren't selling anymore. Back in their peak, the Monte Carlo, Grand Prix, Cutlass Supreme coupe, and Regal could pull down well over a million units among them. By the end of the 80's though, those days were long gone, and if they got more than 100-125K units out of a single name, that was probably considered a smash hit.
It's funny that when a new car line comes out, of course, the manufacturer hopes for a succes. But how could they when they slap a name that's known for being realiable and sold very well on a foriegn car. LeMans, Nova, etc. The Charger is a different case however. Everyone should know that 2-door cars are not big sellers. So Chrysler was right to use that name on a 4-door car. Just be thankful they made the Charger a performance car (in Hemi form). I bet if they use another name from the past IE: Monoco, Polaro, Belvedere etc. People would protest that the car doesn't deserve a name like the above!
I don't think any of those other names have nearly the recognition that the name "Charger" does. Plus, a lot of Dodge's old names just haven't aged well. Names like Polara, Monaco, Coronet, Dart, Custom Royal, St. Regis, Diplomat, Dynasty, etc just seem either too clunky to be on a 2006 car, or they just have an air of pretentiousness to them, or both! I think Mirada was a good name, but I doubt if 90% of the buying public would know what one was. Most would think it was "Marauder" spelled incorrectly. And if you're trying to draw on heritage, well the 1980-83 period is probably the last one Dodge would want to draw from!
I think Intrepid was a good name, but considering how totally different this new car is from an Intrepid, it just deserved a different name. I also liked "Demon", but that caused enough controversy back in the 70's, so I doubt Dodge will go there again! And "Challenger" was cool, but again, not appropriate for the type of car the Charger is, IMO.
But lets face it, you can't please everybody, so Dodge is going to irritate somebody no matter what they name the car!
I dunno - the more I think about that - the first thing that comes to mind for most people (other than Mopar diehards) is the space shuttle disaster, I bet...
As I've said many times above throughout this thread, I just think it's really silly that people are so obsessed with the number of doors it has! It's clearly the best car to wear the Charger nameplate since the original, heck it's even better than the original when you consider the modern safety, handling, emissions, etc.... So what, it has 4 doors? Get over it....
Ah.The familiar arguments left and right. I believe I could recite them all by heart. Many sound like they are read directly from the DCX corporate material.
Ah the old "everyone thinks" their's is a Charger argument. Generally, I've found most 66-74 fans have a common appreciation and view on the matter. And while liking specific years, 68's, 3rd gen fans, fastbacks, generally still in the same group.
Most of the industry and anyone I've encountered, does not consider the '80s use of the name, anything more than just that. A use of the name.
75 and on. While cool just because they are old now, totally different purpose and direction than the obvious feeling and physical relation between 66-74.
Just because it performs, does not make it a Charger. By that same reasoning, anything could be a Charger.
IT IS NOT JUST THE NUMBER OF DOORS. The entire styling, or lack thereof, is off.
It's a use of the name, pure and simple. They needed a car for a slot, built it, and picked a cool name. The story is completely contradictory, off, and misplaced while connections to any hints, almosts, and likes of anything are pointless because they are off in the first place.
The only part halfway teasing is a portion just above the back wheel, with a portion of that hip line, and C-pillar. But even that is right off a '67 Mustang fastback. The rest is either common as any other car out there, or as in the front, just wrong. If you want to see something with the same hip, 2 doors, and more attractive by an order of magnitude, check out the Bentley Continental GT. Though I'd still put a more Charger like front end. Anyway, I digress.
This is a broad stroke marketting effort which is frustrating a lot of the fans of one side of the brush that is losing out.
So you can crap all over diehard fans of the classics all you want, use the traditional "stuck in the past" argument, grow up, or what have you. But it is simply about being passionate about a certain type of car whose reputation this vehicle is riding and hijacking; the story being used to sell it.
But, it is most certainly not just about the number of doors. I am so sick of the condescending attitude which assumes I am just an obsessed silly little child concerned with owning a 2-door. It is about very real design preference, and again, a COMPLETE hijacking.
Ah. Yes, and the best. It's better than the original. Ya. Great. Well, after 30+ years I would hope the technology has improved. No $hi# Sherlock. That is hardly an argument. That same new technology could have been used on a totally different vehicle than this.
Yes, I'll get over it, thanks. But again, more than the door count. It is the contradictions, the hijacking of the name, the rest of the styling, the disrespect, the ignorance, and the attitude, that poses much more of a problem.
actually, IMO it's off of a '98-04 Intrepid! At a quick glance, the Charger does faintly resemble an Intrepid from the back. But then, at the same time, I used to think the Intrepid paid a faint homage to the Charger, with that fast rear window, the hint of a flying buttress, and the full-width taillights that taper toward the center.
Am I the only one who thinks the new Charger is a nice looking modern muscle car? And that the original looked like a mullet-mobile next to its competition? The original was kind of a cool car for the Duke boys, but I don't think Chrysler can target that market and make money on the car.
Also, I am confused. How can a car company highjack their own name? And, if it is so devastating to the faithful, why can't the faithful consider this just a use of the name as with the 1980s cars?
of the '66-67 Charger, but I think the '68-70 is just about automotive perfection. Now I think the Dukes of Hazzard might have given the Charger a bad, rednecky image, but I think it you put a '68-70 up against the GM and Ford intermediates of that time, they just kinda pale in comparison. Even in basic slant six or smallblock form, a Charger looks downright brutal and intimidating.
The 1971+ Chargers were nothing special, though. Essentially just 2-door Coronets. That year Chrysler dropped the Coronet nameplate on 2-doors and called ALL the 2-door midsizers "Charger". At least in '68-70, the Charger was something upscale from the likes of a Coronet or Satellite.
I had to google all of the cars in question - and I pretty much agree with your take on it. But, what about 1980s Charger? I know this is sacrelige, but it wasn't the ugliest car out there in the early 1980s. I found an old ad for an '83. It was supposed to be the new breed of the muscle car.
Guys... I've really got something to whine about. Maybe somebody can help. My new Magnum lists half and inch to the right rear when the fuel tank is full. When it's empty, the list gets worse -- over five-eighths of an inch. I drove the thing for weeks before noticing it. But now that I have noticed it, It's driving me nuts. Apparently the 300, the Magnum, and now the Charger all have gas tanks mostly on the driver's side. So, to compensate for the extra weight, they've put a stiffer spring on this side. Problem is, the differential in stiffness is variable from car to car and about as bad as it gets with mine. I've had the car to a dealer, but Daimler/Chrysler says that this difference in curb height is within tolerance. No help there. I even called the corporate complaint number asking for help, which the nice young man promised. But it's been over a week now and I've not heard back from him about it. Anybody out there had a similar problem and solved it with an after-market solution?
i have heard of this type of problem before, specifically a mustang on another board. you could try to ask them to take care of it as a matter of customer satisfaction. make sure they don't just add some air to the tire on the low side to get you out the door.
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Ah yes. That's nice. A mullet comment. So typical. Fans of the classics argue on product design, and get lovely personal responses.
I don't believe anyone was expecting a duplicate of a '68. Just buy a '68. However, a modern rendition living up to all their hype and advertising, and being true to the reputation and story they are riding, would have been nice.
The highjacking refers to the misplaced market story, the redefinition, etc, Not to mention, don't forget, it was not so much of a merger as a Daimler take over.
Why can't the faithful consider this just a use of the name as with the 80's? Ya. Thanks. So our desire for a product means @#$#. That's great. Again, is there an echo in here? Again, why don't I just shut up, shave the mullet that I don't have, check my watch that says 1970, and go drink a beer and think about growing up.
Oh. Right, it's because it's 2005, and I am a professional, responsible, married bald guy, who simply would like a completely different modern vehicle which better fit the story being used. So forget your personal judgements on my priorities or character,.
And as far as an opinion on the car's looks (ignoring the nameplate), it is better looking in person, but that front looks like animal from the Muppets. It's horrible.
You are a funny dude. Honestly. I didn't mean to disparage your character or haircut. I just don't think there are enough guys like you to warrant the building of the car that you want.
Don't forget that Chrysler is a German company now. The fact that they are interpreting the American car better than Ford or GM is great to me. Taken in this light, the new Charger is a wonderful interpretation of the old Charger, don't you think?
I think we can both agree that Animal was the coolest muppet. Whether that makes him a good model for the front end of a car, I don't know.
It seems to me that the way to view the new Charger is against the rest of the current automotive market. In that light, it seems (to me anyway) a pretty cool and worthy car.
The "classic" Charger existed in a market where American cars were pretty much IT, except for the European sportscars and a few quirky foreign econo-mobiles. Also, there were also no real emissions standards and hard-core road congestion hadn't really begun yet.
Today's market is entirely different. There is an amazing range of choice if one is looking to buy a large, powerful car...both the Europeans and the Asians now offer them, and many are quite high-quality with ammenities and safety features that weren't even conceived of in 1969. In addition to being fast, they also handle and brake well too. Add to this enviromental requirements and how much time the average driver spends sitting in traffic, and there's a lot of things a carmarker has to consider when creating a car that sells and generates a profit (which after all, is the point of being in the business).
After all, consider the tale of the GM F-bodies. The modern Camaro/Firebird is an amazing high performance car that was (for better or worse) true to the spirit of the age of the musclecar, rough and raw with great menacing styling. It also isn't made anymore. For all of the fans that praised the car, not enough of them were willing to actually pay money and buy one. That it survived as long as it did was due largely to it being pretty cheap to make, with its components coming from parts bins, other vehicles or just simply old, sunk-cost stuff.
So I guess my point is that yeah, the Charger isn't as cool perhaps as those of us here would like (I wanted a coupe too), but in a relative sense, I think it's a great car for its time that captures the essense of its predecessors while still (hopefully) having a broad enough market base to insure that it'll be made for more than a couple of years. And who knows, the next Charger may well come in a coupe form, if this one does well enough; but if this one doesn't sell, a high-powered coupe becomes even less likely.
And for what it's worth, when I think "Charger", I see the menacing hitmen's car in "Bullitt", with bespectacled Bill Hickman at the wheel, not the General Lee driven by two hillbillies in flannel...
is that, while the old Chargers might handle poorly by today's standards, for the standard of the time they were actually very good. In fact, for the movie Bullitt, the Charger was pretty much stock. The Mustang had to be built up seriously to perform and handle for that movie, because otherwise it couldn't keep up with the Charger!
Back in those days, a small car didn't necessarily handle better than a bigger one. Small cars were often very flighty, bouncy, and unstable. There actually was something to be said for, to use Ford's '70's term, "road hugging weight". Well, to a point, at least! One reason is that, with domestic cars at least, the manufacturers simply put more effort into them than smaller cars, so they were better all-round performers. Plus, the bigger cars were designed to accept a bigger engine, where if you put a bigger engine in a small car, you'd be all over the road.
Now a smaller car might be more nimble, as in, being able to squeeze into tighter spaces than a bigger car, and being easier to park. And big cars are just intimidating to some people, so they just don't know how to drive them right.
One reason that it was so common to see Mopar copcars getting smashed up on tv shows like the Dukes of Hazzard, A-Team, etc, was because they tended to handle better than their Ford and GM counterparts. I've also heard that the torsion bar front-ends and the leaf spring rears made them real easy to mod for stunt work. But then I've also heard that those same components make them a nightmare for conversion to low-riders, hydraulics, etc, so go figure! :confuse: Another reason you saw them all the time was simply because there were more Mopar copcars out there, as they usually dominated the market. But then, why did they dominate the market? Because many police departments thought they were the best! :P
I always think of that movie "Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry" or whatever it was called when I think of the Charger. I guess that dates my childhood, putting me after Bullitt, but before the Dukes of Hazzard!
I'd never heard of "Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry" until recently here in these threads...I've been trying to track it down so I can see it!
I grew up with the Dukes myself, but even then I wasn't too sure if I should be proud of that or not. Magnum P.I. was more my thing when it came to tv cars...
I wonder why the remake Dukes of Hazzard movie didn't tie in the new Charger in some way (maybe the classic General Lee would finally blow out its suspension after jumping over too steep a pile of dirt, and they'd need a replacement? )
It's been ages since I've seen it, but I remember as a kid it came on regularly on the local channels, often on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon. I probably even taped it back in the 80's, although I'm sure I taped over it after awhile.
Netflix carries the title, too. Maybe I'll rent it from them, and see if it's as cool as I remember, and then if it is, I'll buy the DVD.
Thanks...there's a growing amount of obscure movies I've had a thirst to see recently, so adding Dirty Mary/Crazy Larry may be enough to convince me to sign up with netflix finally.
I'm desperate to see Two-Lane Blacktop again as well...its availability for purchase is very low...people are selling it on Amazon for $119 for a new DVD! :surprise:
on DVD is "The Car". I hear it's almost impossible to get though, and very expensive. I Tivo'd it off the SciFi Channel early in the year, but I'd rather see it original, full aspect, and uncut, as opposed to the pan-n-scan version. Plus, they cut out one of the best parts of the movie...when Kathleen Lloyd curses out the car and calls it a "Chicken-blank"! And in this case, they cut out the chicken with the blank, and even an amusing part where an old woman shakes her fist at the Car and hollers "CAT-POOOOH!!" And yet, just five channels up on the Directv, Cartman, Kyle, Kenny, Stan, and all their little friends curse all they want, with only fragments of the words bleeped, so you still hear like 80% of the word. But, I digress! :shades:
I've looked on eBay for it, but sometimes I swear, it's like trying to find the Congo Bongo cartridge for my Intellivision collection! :P (okay, I'll stop being a nerd now...)
I think we are about the same age, but I have never seen "Crazy Mary, Crazy Larry." I think we must have had completely different upbringings as your knowledge of Mopar and really all American iron is far superior to mine. Those cars weren't ever really on my radar screen. Maybe that is why I am having trouble understanding the stink about the new Charger.
You have to give Dodge their due credit. What better way to get a "new" car talked about. Just start a contoversy over a classic name on a new car!. I happened to like the car. and no it may not deserve the "Charger" name. Come on new Dodge has never tried to pass it off as a continuation of the classic Charger of the past.
I'm 35, and pretty much grew up around big cars. I actually come from a mainly GM family, but started liking Chryslers back in the late 70's, I guess, when my Granddad bought a '53 DeSoto from his brother in law with the intent of fixing it up to use as a spare car. I think what really turned me on to Mopars though was the movie "Christine". And then, when I finally saw a pic of what a '57 DeSoto looked like, I knew I just HAD to have one!
I also like a big, roomy car, and Chrysler products were usually among the roomiest in their class, at least in the dimensions I need, so that's why I'd usually prefer them.
So to bring things back before we get yelled at, I'm curious (and this is NOT an attempt to bait those who dislike the new Charger, merely something to discuss) as to why the new Charger is viewed as NOT a proper musclecar? Is it just the 4-door thing, or is there something else?
To me, with the exception of the 4-doors, it seems to have everything else...it's big, based on a regular family sedan, has a gigantic (relatively) low-tech (kind of) engine stuffed into it and is rwd. And the R/T Daytona version even has the tape striping I love...
i never saw the whole movie, but i think my favorite lines went something like this: police pursuit driver, looking at an unmarked car: "top end?", reply from mechanic: "unlimited". :surprise:
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
I remember seeing that movie...it ends with a car-train collision, if I recall correctly.
Today Peter Fonda probably wouldn't get out of the school lunchroom alive with that haircut, funky sunglasses and dorky shoes, even if he were driving a cool Charger...
......the intregue and mistique of the 68-70 Chargers in the new model if they would've put the CNG powered concept version into production instead of making it look like another version of the 300. That CNG model was absolutely gorgous while the 300-ish looking model doesn't do anything good for the Charger heritage.
is that the new Charger is ugly compared to the beautiful '68-70 Charger. But then, I'd consider most modern cars to be ugly compared to their '68-70 counterparts. And, to be fair, most other Chargers were ugly compared to the '68-70 Charger! Cars were designed by stylists and artists back then, and often sacrificed comfort, room, ease of entry/exit, etc, all in the name of looking good. Today though, it's like they design the car itself first, and then take than and try to figure out how to style it, after the fact.
So, overall, I'd say the new Charger has every right to be called a Charger as the current Grand Prix has the right to that name, or the Impala has to its name. Going on "heritage", I'd call the GP Tempest or LeMans, while the Impala would be called Malibu (with the Malibu then being Nova or whateva)
I rented the DVD from Netflix. The comments by Foda, Susan George, and the director (can't recall his name) are pretty good. The funniest is that Susan George's agent advised her not to take a percentage of the movie. Fonda's did and George's comment was "he probably never really had to work again."
Trivia: The Charger is painted Lime yellow, a 240Z color. That's why it looks greenish on the DVD. I always theought it was yellow, but the guy that runs The Dodge Charger Registry set me straight.
Intriguing/embarassing personal tidbit: Back in 1985, I was told I was a dead ringer for Peter Fonda in Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry. I'm still not sure if it was a compliment or a slam.
in Netflix, so hopefully it'll be coming soon. I was wondering about the color, because on the DVD poster it did look like it had a greenish hue. But I disctinctly remember it being yellow when I saw the movie on tv, and also when they used that ending explosion scene as stock footage in the opening credits of "The Fall Guy"
it's out now. I think May was the first month of production, with June being the first full month. At least, I remember in late May/early June when I went to Florida on vacation, that was when I first saw them on the road. I think they made about 1500 in May, and around 4200 or so in June.
Comments
braking sucks the car sucks the dodge charger is 3 grand more and it was as fast with 5 people it i swear to god it handles better i thought the mustang was better than that but i was dissapointing it say the least.
my dodge omni is faster than both he he turbo
He started ragging on the car, and when I told him that, next time around, I'm thinking about buying one, well he just gave me this look...like his first-born bore more of a resemblance to me than to him or something! :surprise:
I also found out that someone printed up a whole bunch of t-shirts that said in big bold letters "THE NEW CHARGER SUCKS!" and people were wearing them around, going up to where Chrysler was sponsoring a test drive event where they had, among other cars, a few Chargers. I didn't see anybody at the show wearing a shirt like that, though, so either there really weren't very many, or he was just making it up.
Anyway, I told him to just think of the new car as a replacement for the Intrepid, and the Dynasty before that, and the Diplomats and and bigger K-car variants before that, and the old Coronets before that. There just is no market for a 2-door specialty coupe anymore...it's simply not feasible to build. So as a result, the Charger had to fill the role of a mass-market family car. And to be honest, if you're going to dig up a Dodge name from the past, "Charger" is probably about the best one to use. "Magnum" was also cool, but they already dug that one back up. "Mirada" is a cool name too, and they built so few of them that very few people probably remember it. But then, that's part of the problem...the name has no history or intrigue to it like the Charger does. And other names, like Coronet, Monaco, Diplomat, etc, just sound kind of frumpy and don't really portray a sporty image. At best, most of them portray a police car image, but that's about it.
"Challenger" was a cool name too, but let's face it, that's one name that WOULD be innapropriate to put on a largish 4-door sedan.
That's real classy; did you ask if maybe they had some rear-window stickers printed up with Calvin peeing on a new Charger?
Mustang enthusiasts tend to like or at least respect all Mustang iterations for what they were/are (some of us even secretly like the Mustang II a little bit...but don't say it out loud...
But then, they could've used the platform to make a high-spec coupe and call that the Charger. Since it would share most of the important stuff with the sedan and wagon, it wouldn't cost THAT much to make. Now, to offer the Charger, just as a coupe, wouldn't work. But as long as they had some kind of sedan (just don't call it "Charger") to accompany it, and spread out the tooling/manufacturing costs, they would've been fine.
But, even as things are now, I'm not complaining. A Charger coupe would've been really cool, but I can't say that I'd put my money where my mouth is. After all, my head hits the ceiling in the back seat of the Charger as it is...that's coupe-ish enough for me already!
to me a charger should be a bit more out front. after all, you can get more engine in a 300 srt8, and you can get the same engine as the charger in a jeep! the charger rt version still has turn down tips on the exhaust. a little more confidence would be better.
although come to think of it, my '70 sport fury 4 door hardtop(383) and my dad's 340 demon had turn down tips, too.
I also wonder why Dodge didn't just call the Charger the Magnum. It's not as though a car can't be offered in two different body styles.
I know this has mentioned before, but I wonder if a lot of the crying will cease once the car has been out for awhile? I mean, remember the squealing that started when it was announced that Chevy was bringing back the Impala SS nameplate, and putting it on the bathtub/supository Caprice? Well, for the most part, that stopped pretty quick once the car was out.
Wasn't there a lot of whining going on about the 300M, too? V-6, FWD, and, mother of all shames, FOUR DOORS? (there were 4-door 300's, but NEVER a 4-door Letter Series) That seemed to calm down after awhile, too.
I remember, back in 1990, when the 4-door Grand Prix came out, thinking that it was just WRONG!! That wasn't a Grand Prix, I reasoned. It was a LeMans! But Pontiac had the LeMans name wrapped up in that little Korean travesty (now as a LeMans fan, that's one thing I still haven't forgiven Pontiac for! :P ) But, let's face it...by the late 80's and early 90's, personal luxury coupes just weren't selling anymore. Back in their peak, the Monte Carlo, Grand Prix, Cutlass Supreme coupe, and Regal could pull down well over a million units among them. By the end of the 80's though, those days were long gone, and if they got more than 100-125K units out of a single name, that was probably considered a smash hit.
I think Intrepid was a good name, but considering how totally different this new car is from an Intrepid, it just deserved a different name. I also liked "Demon", but that caused enough controversy back in the 70's, so I doubt Dodge will go there again! And "Challenger" was cool, but again, not appropriate for the type of car the Charger is, IMO.
But lets face it, you can't please everybody, so Dodge is going to irritate somebody no matter what they name the car!
As I've said many times above throughout this thread, I just think it's really silly that people are so obsessed with the number of doors it has! It's clearly the best car to wear the Charger nameplate since the original, heck it's even better than the original when you consider the modern safety, handling, emissions, etc.... So what, it has 4 doors? Get over it....
Ah the old "everyone thinks" their's is a Charger argument. Generally, I've found most 66-74 fans have a common appreciation and view on the matter. And while liking specific years, 68's, 3rd gen fans, fastbacks, generally still in the same group.
Most of the industry and anyone I've encountered, does not consider the '80s use of the name, anything more than just that. A use of the name.
75 and on. While cool just because they are old now, totally different purpose and direction than the obvious feeling and physical relation between 66-74.
Just because it performs, does not make it a Charger. By that same reasoning, anything could be a Charger.
IT IS NOT JUST THE NUMBER OF DOORS. The entire styling, or lack thereof, is off.
It's a use of the name, pure and simple. They needed a car for a slot, built it, and picked a cool name. The story is completely contradictory, off, and misplaced while connections to any hints, almosts, and likes of anything are pointless because they are off in the first place.
The only part halfway teasing is a portion just above the back wheel, with a portion of that hip line, and C-pillar. But even that is right off a '67 Mustang fastback. The rest is either common as any other car out there, or as in the front, just wrong. If you want to see something with the same hip, 2 doors, and more attractive by an order of magnitude, check out the Bentley Continental GT. Though I'd still put a more Charger like front end. Anyway, I digress.
This is a broad stroke marketting effort which is frustrating a lot of the fans of one side of the brush that is losing out.
So you can crap all over diehard fans of the classics all you want, use the traditional "stuck in the past" argument, grow up, or what have you. But it is simply about being passionate about a certain type of car whose reputation this vehicle is riding and hijacking; the story being used to sell it.
But, it is most certainly not just about the number of doors. I am so sick of the condescending attitude which assumes I am just an obsessed silly little child concerned with owning a 2-door. It is about very real design preference, and again, a COMPLETE hijacking.
Ah. Yes, and the best. It's better than the original. Ya. Great. Well, after 30+ years I would hope the technology has improved. No $hi# Sherlock. That is hardly an argument. That same new technology could have been used on a totally different vehicle than this.
Yes, I'll get over it, thanks. But again, more than the door count. It is the contradictions, the hijacking of the name, the rest of the styling, the disrespect, the ignorance, and the attitude, that poses much more of a problem.
Sort of Intrepid ... too much "bubble" though for a Charger...
Also, I am confused. How can a car company highjack their own name? And, if it is so devastating to the faithful, why can't the faithful consider this just a use of the name as with the 1980s cars?
The 1971+ Chargers were nothing special, though. Essentially just 2-door Coronets. That year Chrysler dropped the Coronet nameplate on 2-doors and called ALL the 2-door midsizers "Charger". At least in '68-70, the Charger was something upscale from the likes of a Coronet or Satellite.
make sure they don't just add some air to the tire on the low side to get you out the door.
Ah yes. That's nice. A mullet comment. So typical. Fans of the classics argue on product design, and get lovely personal responses.
I don't believe anyone was expecting a duplicate of a '68. Just buy a '68. However, a modern rendition living up to all their hype and advertising, and being true to the reputation and story they are riding, would have been nice.
The highjacking refers to the misplaced market story, the redefinition, etc, Not to mention, don't forget, it was not so much of a merger as a Daimler take over.
Why can't the faithful consider this just a use of the name as with the 80's? Ya. Thanks. So our desire for a product means @#$#. That's great. Again, is there an echo in here? Again, why don't I just shut up, shave the mullet that I don't have, check my watch that says 1970, and go drink a beer and think about growing up.
Oh. Right, it's because it's 2005, and I am a professional, responsible, married bald guy, who simply would like a completely different modern vehicle which better fit the story being used. So forget your personal judgements on my priorities or character,.
And as far as an opinion on the car's looks (ignoring the nameplate), it is better looking in person, but that front looks like animal from the Muppets. It's horrible.
And it is most certainly NOT a Charger.
http://www.capitalcitymopars.com/images/Members/ShuckTruck6.jpg
Don't forget that Chrysler is a German company now. The fact that they are interpreting the American car better than Ford or GM is great to me. Taken in this light, the new Charger is a wonderful interpretation of the old Charger, don't you think?
I think we can both agree that Animal was the coolest muppet. Whether that makes him a good model for the front end of a car, I don't know.
The "classic" Charger existed in a market where American cars were pretty much IT, except for the European sportscars and a few quirky foreign econo-mobiles. Also, there were also no real emissions standards and hard-core road congestion hadn't really begun yet.
Today's market is entirely different. There is an amazing range of choice if one is looking to buy a large, powerful car...both the Europeans and the Asians now offer them, and many are quite high-quality with ammenities and safety features that weren't even conceived of in 1969. In addition to being fast, they also handle and brake well too. Add to this enviromental requirements and how much time the average driver spends sitting in traffic, and there's a lot of things a carmarker has to consider when creating a car that sells and generates a profit (which after all, is the point of being in the business).
After all, consider the tale of the GM F-bodies. The modern Camaro/Firebird is an amazing high performance car that was (for better or worse) true to the spirit of the age of the musclecar, rough and raw with great menacing styling. It also isn't made anymore. For all of the fans that praised the car, not enough of them were willing to actually pay money and buy one. That it survived as long as it did was due largely to it being pretty cheap to make, with its components coming from parts bins, other vehicles or just simply old, sunk-cost stuff.
So I guess my point is that yeah, the Charger isn't as cool perhaps as those of us here would like (I wanted a coupe too), but in a relative sense, I think it's a great car for its time that captures the essense of its predecessors while still (hopefully) having a broad enough market base to insure that it'll be made for more than a couple of years. And who knows, the next Charger may well come in a coupe form, if this one does well enough; but if this one doesn't sell, a high-powered coupe becomes even less likely.
And for what it's worth, when I think "Charger", I see the menacing hitmen's car in "Bullitt", with bespectacled Bill Hickman at the wheel, not the General Lee driven by two hillbillies in flannel...
Back in those days, a small car didn't necessarily handle better than a bigger one. Small cars were often very flighty, bouncy, and unstable. There actually was something to be said for, to use Ford's '70's term, "road hugging weight". Well, to a point, at least! One reason is that, with domestic cars at least, the manufacturers simply put more effort into them than smaller cars, so they were better all-round performers. Plus, the bigger cars were designed to accept a bigger engine, where if you put a bigger engine in a small car, you'd be all over the road.
Now a smaller car might be more nimble, as in, being able to squeeze into tighter spaces than a bigger car, and being easier to park. And big cars are just intimidating to some people, so they just don't know how to drive them right.
One reason that it was so common to see Mopar copcars getting smashed up on tv shows like the Dukes of Hazzard, A-Team, etc, was because they tended to handle better than their Ford and GM counterparts. I've also heard that the torsion bar front-ends and the leaf spring rears made them real easy to mod for stunt work. But then I've also heard that those same components make them a nightmare for conversion to low-riders, hydraulics, etc, so go figure! :confuse: Another reason you saw them all the time was simply because there were more Mopar copcars out there, as they usually dominated the market. But then, why did they dominate the market? Because many police departments thought they were the best! :P
I grew up with the Dukes myself, but even then I wasn't too sure if I should be proud of that or not. Magnum P.I. was more my thing when it came to tv cars...
I wonder why the remake Dukes of Hazzard movie didn't tie in the new Charger in some way (maybe the classic General Lee would finally blow out its suspension after jumping over too steep a pile of dirt, and they'd need a replacement?
It's been ages since I've seen it, but I remember as a kid it came on regularly on the local channels, often on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon. I probably even taped it back in the 80's, although I'm sure I taped over it after awhile.
Netflix carries the title, too. Maybe I'll rent it from them, and see if it's as cool as I remember, and then if it is, I'll buy the DVD.
I'm desperate to see Two-Lane Blacktop again as well...its availability for purchase is very low...people are selling it on Amazon for $119 for a new DVD! :surprise:
I've looked on eBay for it, but sometimes I swear, it's like trying to find the Congo Bongo cartridge for my Intellivision collection! :P (okay, I'll stop being a nerd now...)
I also like a big, roomy car, and Chrysler products were usually among the roomiest in their class, at least in the dimensions I need, so that's why I'd usually prefer them.
To me, with the exception of the 4-doors, it seems to have everything else...it's big, based on a regular family sedan, has a gigantic (relatively) low-tech (kind of) engine stuffed into it and is rwd. And the R/T Daytona version even has the tape striping I love...
police pursuit driver, looking at an unmarked car: "top end?", reply from mechanic: "unlimited". :surprise:
Today Peter Fonda probably wouldn't get out of the school lunchroom alive with that haircut, funky sunglasses and dorky shoes, even if he were driving a cool Charger...
You can't seriously wonder that can you?
No. It is not just the 4 doors. It is NOT just the 4 doors by any means.
So if it's not just the sedan configuration, what else is problematic that makes it not authentically a Charger?
So, overall, I'd say the new Charger has every right to be called a Charger as the current Grand Prix has the right to that name, or the Impala has to its name. Going on "heritage", I'd call the GP Tempest or LeMans, while the Impala would be called Malibu (with the Malibu then being Nova or whateva)
Trivia: The Charger is painted Lime yellow, a 240Z color. That's why it looks greenish on the DVD. I always theought it was yellow, but the guy that runs The Dodge Charger Registry set me straight.
Intriguing/embarassing personal tidbit: Back in 1985, I was told I was a dead ringer for Peter Fonda in Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry. I'm still not sure if it was a compliment or a slam.
Turboshadow