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Comments
why do people insist on using that word ???
In addition—and in agreement—to Brenda's comment, there is no such thing as a good color, a bad color, or a "retarded" color.
When someone doesn't like a color, it's not the color, but that color in relation to its (color) surroundings. You never see a color in isolation. It is always juxtaposed to other color(s). So that is really what you are commenting on. I can show you any color that will look good or bad depending on how much of that color is used, and what it is placed next to. The only other consideration that affects the positive or negative is the appropriateness of the color for any given situation. For example, bright cheery colors may not be the best choice at a funeral; then again, it may be...
Bob <on Color 101>
Regarding Highlander driving like a minivan, that's patentedly untrue. It's a cushy ride, yes (althought not as quiet or smooth as a Lexus sedan; then Outbacks are much louder too), but it is remarkably light on its wheels for a mid-sized SUV, much less ponderous than even Pilot for example.
One potentially interesting design aspect of Tribeca: is the rear door a two-piece thingy with the bottom flipping down? That's actually a worthwhile feature for mid-size SUV's with relatively short body length.
Bob
~alpha
None of the following are standard which are in Tribeca, obviously Highlander will start from 32k. All of these are options:
No Heated Seats, mirrors
No Fog Lamps
No VDC
NoTinted Windows
No Power seat even for driver
No Audio control on steering wheel
No illumination on visors
No Front & 2nd row Side curtain airbags
No Day time Running Lights
tell me one SUV which can do this ?
You're comparing it to Lexus cars you've owned?
You also got a v1.0, and the problems with the ACC that come with it (HAL). But really it's the last of the old school Subies.
As for your list of complaints, does the RAV4 address all of those issues?
I don't think the RAV4 is executed any better, in fact it doesn't have a rear bumper at all plus the rear gate opens to block curb side access! It's louder, not quieter than the Forester. The spare blocks your view to the rear. And the rear seats fit only 2 comfortably since they are 50/50 split.
Do you really think Toyota's execution is perfect? Not in the RAV4's price range.
Sure, Highlanders can be had at a discount, of course older designs have to discount more. In fact there are rebates now. But consumers want fresh and innovative designs, and many are willing to pay more for that.
Swampy: LOL!
-juice
Bill
I'm not sure if they'll do the same for Baltimore.
One other suggestion was that you go early or late, so the booth is not busy. That way they're not opening the flood gates and a bunch of people pile in.
But that was for NAIAS, so no guarantees. I bet it improves your chances, though.
-juice
Bob
I doubt you can convince anybody of that -- all you need to do is drive the Highlander back to back with a Camry and a Sienna. It will be pretty obvious that the Highlander drives similar to its cousin the Sienna and both drive differently than the Camry parent platform. Both the Sienna and the Highlander are nice vehicles, but they do not remotely handle like a car.
Craig
Just me sitting will either order or go elsewhere... I hope I can order one!
Is Dave Sullivan going to be in NY?
I have no idea. I would think so, at least for one day, as it is a major show.
Bob
I gotta agree with Craig about the way the Highlander drives, it's isolated and smooth, but it feels very heavy. Perhaps not compared to a Pilot, but certainly nothing like a Camry.
We actually test drove a Camry and a Highlander back-to-back. Wife gave an outright no to the Highlander, Camry was close but the 5 speed was notchy and none of the SE models with the manual tranny had ABS.
-juice
Sweet- 24K Highlander has VSC standard. Sure its not VTD, but given that we're talking about soft-roaders, what are the pronounced advantages of VTD vs. VSC+TRAC+AWD?
-Joe
The current VSC is the 2nd generation of Toyota's stability control. The first one didn't get good reviews and feedback.
I haven't tried the new one.
VDC sends most of the power to the rear axle, so it's more like the German AWD systems. And it's engineered for full-time use, not just on slippery surfaces.
Way back when I think the Highlander had a simple viscous coupling, like the base Forester with the manual tranny. Should work for most conditions.
-juice
Huhhh!
Huhhhhh! Where are they? There are more palm trees here than Japanese people!
-juice
Heated Seats, mirrors
Fog Lamps
VDC/VSC
Tinted Windows
Power Seats for driver, plus for passenger too
Audio Control on steering wheel
Illumination on visors
Front and 2nd row side curtain airbags
Day time running lights
So what exactly does the near-$40k Tribeca offer that Highlander Limited does not? The base 4-cylinder Highlander at around $20k is in an entirely different market; Highlander Limited is what Tribeca has to compete against.
What other SUV/cross-over is closer to its car platform origin e than Highlander/RX? The "not remotly . . . like" in your asessment is a highly subjective term. The original RX was the genesis of car-like riding SUVs.
tell me one SUV which can do this ? "
Secondly, I test drove an Avalon, which rides exactly like a sedan.
tell me one SUV which can do this?
hmm. . . hint: Tribeca is an SUV. Do you actually expect it to ride and handle like OBs? Besides, I don't even want my vehicle to ride like OBs. Too rough riding and too much mechanical noise.
thus the really loud stereo option
I just got an e-mail from SOA asking me to take part in a survey to gauge the public's interest in the Tribeca and get a feel for interests in options and pricing so that they can allocate appropriately.
The survey dropped a few interesting hints about pricing and options....
For example:
"With potential pricing for the 5-passenger B9 Tribeca beginning between $30,000 and $32,000 and between $33,000 and $35,000 for the 7-passenger B9 Tribeca, which model best fits your lifestyle?"
In the section gauging my interest in options, they actually listed tentative MSRPs. Note that the 6 disc CD/MP3 player comes with the leather package. The selections were independent of each other, implying that 7 passenger will definitely be available in cloth, even with the DVD or Nav.
"Leather seating with 6 disc CD & MP3 capability $1600
GPS $2000
Rear DVD w/2 wireless headsets $1800"
The final section gauged my interest in leases, and listed numerous combinations of proposed lease lengths, down payments, monthly payments, and options packages. All of the terms looked highly competitive given the level of content. For example, the one I chose that I'd go for was:
"7 passenger, leather, Nav., $0 down, 36 month, 12K/year for $400/month". Another choice for this option level was to put down $1000 for $375/month.
If they really offer those terms for a $37k-ish SUV, I think Subaru really will have a hit, IMHO.
Elliot
>
> thus the really loud stereo option
If that's my cup of tea, I could buy a used Pontiac and hop it up with loud stereos.
If they are actually offering this, it would be a great deal indeed. Wonder how much of a hole GM financing arm will be in a few years ;-)
The RX/Highlander were built in the Lexus plant in Japan at first. 2 or 3 years ago they moved production to the Cambridge Ontario plant, which is arugably the best car assembly plant in North America; it has won more quality awards then any other.
Sly
if only i win the 3000$ sweepstake !
Moonroof and heated/power seats are standard on all models.
Leather (w/ 6-CD) + NAV + DVD = $5300!
DaveM
If you completed the survey within 48 hours of receipt, you got 2 entries in to the $3k.
-Brian
Craig
Craig
First of all, test drive an 05 Outback, it will change your perception for sure.
Secondly, the Tribeca will possess several key elements that make it handle unlike traditional SUVs: boxer engine, symmetrical AWD drivetrain, lightweight aluminum hood/roof/liftgate, and very generous track/wheelbase dimensions for its weight. These contribute to a low CG and lots of stability.
I know many buyers don't understand this, and a lot of people flock into FWD-based "SUVs" that are nothing more than re-shaped minivans with some ground clearance. But if handling is important to you, Subaru has the key ingredients. These are the same reasons they can take an Outback XT with tons of ground clearance and give it excellent handling and near-flat cornering. You just cannot do that in a FWD-based minivan platform.
Craig
We attended the Auto Show recently and were really impressed by the B9 Tribeca. It was displayed in a roped-off area, so we didn't get to sit in it or even get a close-up look at the interior.... but we were quite impressed by what we could see! The front grill area reminds me of an old Alfa Romeo. The rear end, to me, looked like an FX45 with tail fins. I thought the exterior was very attractive.... cutting edge style, yet very classy looking! The Subaru rep. said it would be in showrooms around May, and although there was no Monroney sticker on the display, he said it would likely be priced between $32K and $40K. I signed up to win one (the drawing is to be held sometime in the spring).... so hopefully, mine will cost zero!!
Quite frankly, one thing that really impressed me is that the Tribeca has a "frame" around the side windows. I have always viewed Subaru's traditional lack of a window frame as a drawback and, so far, it has kept me away from buying a Subaru.... even though I am impressed with the rest of the car. It just seems too easy to pry the window outward, slide something inside, and break into the car. I addressed these concerns with the rep. who replied by saying that the advantage of not having a window frame is that when a kid slams the door on his hand, it is not nearly as painful as another car with a frame around the window. That may very well be true..... but sorry, that doesn't outweigh the negatives of the frameless window to me.
I am really looking forward to the Tribeca arriving in showrooms so I can stop in for a closer look... and a drive!
-Brian
One down note I noticed: it said the DVD screen is 9", not the 10" screen juice had mentioned.
I'll be curious to take a closer look once it is here.
Mark
It is pointless to use OB as a proxy for Tribeca however, since the latter's weight and size are in the same ranges as Highlander, not OB. If we want to derive comparisons from their respective car platform origins, we should use Camry/ES330 vs. Legacy. The former has much better ride quality.
Bob
Typical meaningless platitude. SUV's like Highlander have much lighter weight and shorter wheelbase than minivans. Heavy weight and long wheelbase (even more importantly, sliding second row doors) are what define minivans. Crossover SUV's have none of that. On the other hand, if you add weight and wheelbase to AWD platforms, even those much more advanced than Subarus (e.g. Hummer, Landcruiser and M-Class) they will all handle like minivans.
But if handling is important to you, Subaru has the key ingredients. These are the same reasons they can take an Outback XT with tons of ground clearance and give it excellent handling and near-flat cornering. You just cannot do that in a FWD-based minivan platform.
In case you did not know, the overwhelming majority of Outbacks with automatic transmission send 90% of its engine torque to the front. That's a much much higher per centage than AWD Highlanders that use open differential plus TRAC.
There is nothing Minivan about Highlander (you might be thinking of Pilot, which is actually based on a minivan). It's a raised wagon, just like Outback, only bigger. What do you think Tribeca is? a raised wagon, just like Outback, only bigger. Don't be surprised if Subaru decide to tackle the minivan market by stretching Tribecca and add on another 300-400 lbs in the process. That will not however make Tribeca a "reshaped minivan." Highlanders are classified as wagons outside the North American. In fact, the next iteration will be marketted as sportwagon too even here.