Subaru B9 Tribeca (B9X)

jeffmc

I believe I remember reading somewhere that Subaru kept the wheelbase on all of their models shorter to avoid having to pay some kind of export tax in Japan. I think I read that Tribeca is the first vehicle they've made that breaks that restriction... but since it's made in the U.S., they won't be taxed.

Sorry I have no sources to quote. Maybe someone else here remembers reading that, too?

samiam_68

Legacys and Outbacks have been built in the U.S. (Indiana) since at least the mid-90's.

robr2

Legacys and Outbacks have been built in the U.S. (Indiana) since at least the mid-90's.

 

But they sell the same vehicle all over the world and export to many markets from Japan.

ateixeira

I don't agree about that lower price when comparably equipped. You may recall the long (very long) pricing exercise I went through, a HL loaded up like a loaded Tribeca will run about $39k, right about the same as the Tribeca. I didn't find a price advantage at all.

 

They are available at a lower price with less equipment, if that's what you want.

 

Highlander is established so reliability is safer, sure, but you mentioned the hybrid and that will be completely unproven, especially since this will be Toyota's first application of hybrid + AWD.

 

The AWD model will have two electric motors, one for each axle. It'll actually be based on the FWD HL because it will not send any engine power to the rear axle.

 

Acceleration we don't really know for the Tribeca, it'll depend on gearing. If MT is right about the 0-60 in 7.5, that's actually quicker than the Toy. Rolling acceleration will also depend on gearing.

 

I do agree about the dynamic weight management, though. )

 

I disagree about the MR2, and you brought up a bad example because the Miata has less power yet it creams the MR2 in SCCA autocross because it handles better.

 

Guess what? It's longitudinal. LOL

 

-juice

dcm61

It'll be called the Bajambug....

 

Did you forget the 3rd a? Bajamabug? (produced either like Pajama or Bahama).

 

Maybe Bajama moma Bug? Baj humbug

 

DaveM

brightness04

Symmetrical AWD refers to the overall layout, with engine and drivetrain symmetrical about the vehicle centerline. It's a packaging concept, not about torque split.

 

The relevence to the driver would be?? If we want to indulge in real engineering for a moment, the symmetry you are talking about is there so long as the engine is not running. A longitudinal engine can not possibly have force symmetry while running without serious counter-balancing shafts: the moment the engine turns over, there is a rotational torque that turns the vehicle about its logitudinal axis!

 

Longitudinal layout made sense in air-cooled engines. With water cooling, there is no real advantage to longitudinal layout unless you have a RWD vehicle (with engine in the front). For AWD watercooled application, Longitudinal or Transverse make no real difference from end point of view, aside from Transverse layout has short length advantage for inline engines (hence more room for crumple zone and cabin room)

 

You need to read more on mechanical engineering and autoracing if you think 600lbs extra weight is no big deal in handling. If you have ever been to an autocross event, you'd know the advantage of being light weight. BMW 3-series totally domolish the 7-series when it comes to handling, and the difference between the two is not even 600lbs. Don't tell me BMW is using more expensive material for the 3 than for its own flagship 7.

ladywclass

me too ... think they're boycotting us because of our 'attitudes'?

njswamplands

mayberryguy

Legacys and Outbacks have been made in Lafayette, Indiana since 1989. They shared a manufacturing plant with Isuzu Motors which made Rodeo's and Axiom's until last year. Isuzu sold their share of the plant to Subaru so they would have capacity for the new B9 Tribeca and possibly additional models later.

c_hunter

Well, this will be my last post in this conversation, because I just can't compete on your level. And I am a mechanical engineer, BTW.

 

Regardless of how you understand mechanics or spinning shafts, it has zero to so with the symmetry and balanced layout offered by a the drivetrain we are discussing. Cars are not gyros. In fact there are probably a different number of nuts and bolts on the right and left sides, so we're not symmetric in that sense either. For that matter, if you're driving the car by yourself, absolute symmetry is out of the question all together.

 

But we're not talking about art or a balance in the universe. I am talking about having a balanced drivetrain with components laid out symmetrically and centrally mounted in the chassis, which you don't get in a FWD based platform. At all.

 

I have owned numerous FWD cars, been there and done that. The difference between a FWD transverse engine platform and AWD/RWD symmetrical platform is night and day. FWD has many limitations when it comes to balance, stability, and handling. And it has limitations on power. That is why we are seeing a resurgence in RWD cars like the Chrysler 300. Having traction control on a RWD car pretty much defeats the purpose of FWD in this day and age, and the packaging, balance, and power transmission characteristics of a RWD platform are so much better. This is one simple example, and Subaru takes it even further by driving all four wheels.

 

Again, weight will have an impact on acceleration, but weight distribution is what affects handling. I can't say it any simpler than that. A Corvette can run rings around a motorbike on an auto cross course even though the Vette is an order of magnitude heavier. It's the weight distribution, the footprint, and the tire contact patch that matters. If you want to go ahead and prove to me that a smaller lighter motorcycle can out handle a Vette on an autocross course because it weighs less, go ahead, I will be interested to hear the argument. Otherwise, I'm done with the conversation.

 

Craig

mayberryguy

I had the opportunity to actually sit in one of the Pre-Production Tribecas a couple of weeks ago and here were my observations.

 

1. Very upscale interior aimed at the entry luxury market.....more Lexus, Volvo, BMW, than Honda, Toyota. The grade of the interior materials seem to be very rich looking and feeling, much the same as the '05 Legacy/Outbacks.

 

2. I sat in a 5 passenger in both front and second row positions. The front seats are quite comfortable with longer/wider cushion and taller backrests compared to '05 Outbacks. The controls are nicely laid out and everything has a nice feel to the controls. The Navigation System is nicely positioned at a height that is easily readable from the drivers and passengers seats. The second row is also very comfortable with more legroom than the Outback. The DVD player is well positioned and has a larger screen (9") than most competitors.

 

3. I did not sit in the 7 Passenger model but looking at the 3rd row it looked adequate for 2 pre-teen kids. The last row is definitely not designed for adults.

 

4. The cargo space with the 3rd row seated folded down is very roomy and it is adequate with the seat in use.

 

5. Right now the only way you can get a 5 Pass. model is to get the cloth seats. The leather version comes in two models depending on interior color choice. The beige interior comes with solid surface leather seats while the black comes in the perforated Sport leather. I hear that they are considering a leather 5 pass model but is not yet slated for production....maybe later.

 

My overall impression is that this is a very capable SUV, not a glorified minivan like the Toyotas and Hondas. I wouldn't even put them in the same class. The feel of the Tribeca leans toward luxury even more than the new Outbacks. If the '05 Outback/Legacy are not big enough to suit your needs, then you need to give the Tribeca a serious look. It has the same 3.0 H6 engine found in the LL Bean & VDC Outbacks so even with the extra weight, should hold its own against the competition. Remember that the BMW X3 has only 186 hp with the 2.5 and 225 hp with the 3.0.

 

I think Subaru has done their homework and have a good solid SUV on their hands.

jon_in_ct

Just a reminder. SOA doesn't use GMAC for their leasing/financing. SOA got a better deal from JPMorgan Chase.

jeffmc

Mayberryguy, I think you missed the point. We all know Legacys and Outbacks are built in Indiana. But most of these vehicles are built in Japan, restricted in size by Subaru to meet Japanese export tax regulations. 35% of Subaru's sales are North America, but they don't build a special stretched version of Legacy or Outback for the U.S. just because some of them are built here. They have to follow the same plan the other 65% are being built with. Subaru's a smaller company and can't afford as much customization as Toyotas, Nissans, etc., and can't afford the tax increase which would be incurred by exporting larger vehicles from Japan. Maybe if their market share grows. B9 Tribeca is the first Subaru model designed specifically for the North American market. It's built only in North America, NOT in Japan at all, therefore the size limitations to avoid taxation did not apply for Subaru for this model.

jeffmc

Jon,

And apparently they've done well with Chase financing, too. They were rated #1 in non-luxury loan satisfaction:

http://www.crm2day.com/news/crm/EEpuFEkkylbOlrNXSQ.php

sweet_subie

Thanks, it is very useful.

 

are you sure 3rd row can't seat people who are 5'3 or 5'4 ?

rsholland

I'm 5'9" and with the middle seat moved up, I had no problems back there.

 

Bob

snowbelter

The Tribeca has appeared at our car show which opened on Tuesday. Strange because our car show isn't on the list at the SOA Tribeca website where its scheduled to appear. And I haven't received an invite from SOA to come for a visit even though I'm signed up and was sent a survey. The paper quotes the SOA rep as saying that "the Tribeca will compete against such vehicles as the Nissan Murano and should come in under $40,000." Hope to get a chance to check it out.

dcm61

For those that signed up for the free autoshow tickets to see the Tribeca, did you have to pick up the tickets at your selected registration time or could you pick them up earlier and enter the show prior to the "event"?

 

I emailed SOA and their response was: Representatives from Subaru of America will not be available at the Auto Show until 5:30 pm. The "event" is 5:30 to closing. Not sure if this means that the tickets won't be available or just that the Tribeca VIP event doesn't start until 5:30?

 

DaveM

sweet_subie

yeah, the RI rep(cutie!) showed the same, she was 5'8

brightness04

HL loaded up like a loaded Tribeca will run about $39k

 

I walked into a Toyota Dealership last April, and two hours later wrote a check for $31,700 plus tax for a Highlander Limited with every option excepting DVD and NAV.

 

You are thinking of a different MR2. The 1980's mid-engined transverse MR2 was the king of the hill for autocrossing.

njswamplands

rsholland

I walked into a Toyota Dealership last April, and two hours later wrote a check for $31,700 plus tax for a Highlander Limited with every option excepting DVD and NAV.

 

That shows that you're a good negotiator. What was the MSRP?

 

Bob

bluesubie

We need a separate Highlander vs. B9 vs. whatever. I come here to read B9 info but it's hard to find sifting through all of the Toyota threads. :disco:

 

-Dennis

rsholland

The Tribeca vs Highlander vs whatever is, at this point, just sheer speculation on everyone's part. Once the Tribeca actually arrives, and can be driven, then these discussions will mean something. Until then...

 

Bob

brightness04

But we're not talking about art or a balance in the universe.

 

The relevence of that to mechanical engineering, and more importantly, to the customer, would be . . . ??

 

The point of your rant against FWD would be?? We are talking about AWD vehicles, aren't we? Are you saying RWD is better than AWD?? Do you happen to know that Subaru AWD had its origin in the _FWD_ FF1 1100 / Leone in 1971-2?

 

Isn't bringing up the motorbike to the discussion just a wee bit desperate? We are talking about cars with four wheels here. Why don't you use human with no wheels for comparison. A Corvette is a great handling car, add 550lbs, a Pontiac GTO using the same engine simply can not keep up in handling or accelearation.

brightness04

I walked into a Toyota Dealership last April, and two hours later wrote a check for $31,700 plus tax for a Highlander Limited with every option excepting DVD and NAV.

  

That shows that you're a good negotiator. What was the MSRP?

 

I usually do okay, but not that day. I went there with my wife meant only to test drive, but she insisted on leaving with a car. We could have done better at a different dealership. MSRP was in $34-35k. That's why I said Tribeca was about $3-5k over-priced compared to Highlander; and $5-7k over-priced compared to Pilot. The discounting on Highlanders reflect their need to compete with Pilots.

rsholland

Let's wait to see what the actual MSRP is on the Tribeca, and see what's included. We don't know that yet, as those numbers haven't been released. We have a ballpark idea, but that's all at the moment. So at this point we're just guessing.

 

Bob

sweet_subie

Another new piece of technology introduced in the 400h is an all-encompassing vehicle stability control system Lexus calls Vehicle Dynamic Integrated Management (VDIM). Instead of reacting to an already occurring driving situation, VDIM is designed to anticipate vehicle instability in every direction while making stabilizing corrections.

dewey

Looked at the past feww posts and am amazed that nobody is discussing the fascinating news below:

 

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1510&ncid- =1510&e=1&u=/afp/20050202/tc_afp/japanautotoyotafujiheavy- company_050202041646

 

So does this mean a hybrid Tribeca/Outback/Legacy. Hopefully Subaru will focus the hybrid system to maximize fuel efficieny versus performance! Gasoline engines are good enough for high performance but not good enough for gas efficieny!

 

I am not in the market for Subaru---BUT Hybrid may persuade me to go to a Subaru dealership(assuming pricing is not steep)

dewey

Looked at the past few posts and am amazed that nobody is discussing the fascinating news below:

 

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1510&ncid- =1510&e=1&u=/afp/20050202/tc_afp/japanautotoyotafujiheavy- company_050202041646

 

So does this mean a hybrid Tribeca/Outback/Legacy. Hopefully Subaru will focus the hybrid system to maximize fuel efficieny versus performance! Gasoline engines are good enough for high performance but not good enough for gas efficieny!

 

I am not in the market for Subaru---BUT Hybrid may persuade me to go to a Subaru dealership(assuming pricing is not steep)

robr2

We've been discussing it for days.

njswamplands

give me invoice.....

sweet_subie

go to future vehicles forum

ateixeira

FWIW, a boxer engine has natural second order balance. No balance shafts required.

 

1980's mid-engined transverse MR2 was the king of the hill for autocrossing

 

Correct...until the Miata arrived in 1989 with its longitudinal layout and took over.

 

Fact is, two generations of MR2 have tried and failed to survive competing against the Miata.

 

Pilot is bigger, but it's not as upscale as the Tribeca. The MDX is closer in size and level of luxury.

 

You just read yet another opinion that stated the interior is closer to Acura/Lexus than it is to Toyota/Honda.

 

-juice

rsholland

are what's found on the Tribeca.

 

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear&tir- eModel=Eagle+LS

 

Do a Google search and you will find the tire gets a so-so rating.

 

Bob

ateixeira

Subaru has a patent on poor tire choice.

 

Big a fan as I am, they tend to choose lousy tires. I'd expect nothing less from them. LOL

 

I hated the Bridgestone Desert Duelers that came on my Forester, couldn't wait to get rid of them. My wife has Blowtenzas (RE92) on her Legacy and they're not much better.

 

Goodyears aren't even cheap so that doesn't even make sense!

 

-juice

sduford

I think most car manufacturers put cheap tires on their cars. It is probably just a matter of price. If they save $10 per tire, that amount to millions of dollars over a car's production run.

ateixeira

Perhaps a "miss" if they're aiming upscale, though?

 

Plus, Goodyears aren't cheap.

 

-juice

rsholland

I haven't found the 255/55x18 size that the Tribeca uses (probably not in stock yet), but FX35/45 and Murano use them, and they're up around $170 a pop!

 

Bob

sduford

Everybody makes some cheap tires, including Good Year.

 

Also, even though retail on the RE-92s is quite high, I would bet good money that Subaru gets them dirt cheap.

 

Sly

snowbelter

Least we forget: When the OB was last changed for MY 2000, the Firestone Wilderness came with it. That tire lasted only for a bit more than one model year perhaps because the Wilderness name was associated with an SUV tire of the same name which was on many of those tipping Explorers. My wife and I found the Wilderness to wear much longer and grip much better in the snow that the RE 92s that came on my OB. Would we all be complaining so much about tires if Subaru had kept the Wilderness tire. One thing in SOA's favor; the tires we love to hate are "H" rated unlike many of the tires that come on other wagons and crossovers. Martin

lark6

The Tribeca vs Highlander vs whatever is, at this point, just sheer speculation on everyone's part. Once the Tribeca actually arrives, and can be driven, then these discussions will mean something. Until then...



 

Best point made yet. While I wasn't thrilled with the B9X styling at first glance - and I'm still not positive about it - I realize that it's more than styling that, if you will, makes a Subaru a Subaru.

 

In my own experience I've found that AWD Subarus, even in stock trim, are very good handling cars; their "fun to drive" factor is high. Some Subaristi want to lift their cars, almost monster-truck style, to take on hardcore off-roading. Others want to lower them into the tarmac (and, you'll notice, these folks almost always call pavement "tarmac") and find it amazing that anyone would leave a gap between the tops of their tires and the bottoms of their wheel wells. I think the long-travel suspension and stock ride height is, in most cases, a good compromise for people who face driving in a wide variety of conditions over a wide variety of surfaces. But I'm only referring to the existing Impreza/Forester/Legacy lineup, not the B9X.

 

In any event, I think one of the more important things to the B9X's success with existing Subaru owners will be whether it drives like a Subaru. that will mean not only in terms of handling but also in terms of ruggedness and durability - perhaps not crossing the Rubicon but being able to go out in conditions where others might not. For people new to the marque, that may not mean quite as much.

 

Ed

sweet_subie

Yes, my OB 2001 firestone tires are still good. i wouldn't mind buying firestone again, if they are still around ?

ateixeira

They had to go away from the Wilderness tires due to bad publicity. About 100 people came here to Edmunds to ask if those tires were affected.

 

They could even stick with Bridgestone and use the much better RE950. Or use budget-priced tires from Dunlop (SP Sport A2) or Falken (Ziex 512) that are still rated highly.

 

I'm sure there are economics that we're not familiar with given the huge volumes of tires. OE tires are always a compromise (noise, tread wear, etc.).

 

Ed: the way my cousin puts it, his Subie has to be able to drive over a 25mph speed bump at 40mph. :-)

 

-juice

bigelm

Since we hope to get the B9 by summer, first thing that's leaving are the rims & tires. I'll just keep the stock for winter.

ateixeira

To be honest I'm not in the market right now, the Forester is holding up well so there's no reason to get rid of it. She hasn't need to see a dealership since 1998.

 

She'd feel betrayed if I traded her for a Tribeca. ;-)

 

I will drive one, though. That's gonna be tempting...

 

-juice

bigelm

Well, it's time to move into something bigger and since the OB is a lease, I don't have too much love for her, though she's been good to us. But with plans on expanding the family, I don't have a choice.

c_hunter

In my case, we were told we could pick up the tickets one hour before the B9 event. So we got there early and looked at all the other cars for an hour or so.

 

CRaig

dcm61

Thanks Craig.

 

DaveM

ironsides1

At the Edmonton Auto show that opened Thursday, the 5 seater Tribeca was on display. It had attractive cloth seats. Someone earlier had asked whether the second row of seats had the same 8 inch movement... yes they slide to provide loads of leg room in the second row. In the space where the third row seat would store, there were divided storage bins.

 

The small front windows must be an expensive design item. From the driver 's seat one can barely see anything, however each tiny window has a heat vent directed to it.

 

Jon