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Subaru B9 Tribeca (B9X)

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Comments

  • rangnerrangner Posts: 336
    Yeah to have sliding doors would be a bone headed move. If they did it could be like an upscale Chevy Uplander/Terazza/Relay SUV minivan crossover. Ughhh... May it never be! OTOTH it would be practical but the image would be lost.

    I would seriously doubt that Subaru would do something like that.

    As for the 2.5 N/A w/AVCS: Make it!

    Eric
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    it's not inconceivable that Subaru might develop a true minivan off this platform sometime in the future.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Anything is possible, though the minivan segment is the US has been shrinking.

    The one opportunity would be on the high end - Toyota sells more loaded up Sienna than it does stripped ones. Honda is also seeing the demand on the high-end models.

    -juice
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    Ah, I'd love sliding doors. As far as seating, I tossed my 3rd seat in my Quest since I get by fine with a 5 passenger rig. A roomy B9X with sliders, 5 seater, cloth and a 5 speed would be loverly. My Outback Ltd has leather and it's not a great choice in the high desert for me.

    Subaru Chat is tonight, btw.

    Steve, Host
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Power sliders are neat, but I really think it would kill the "image" of this as an SUV. Off road capability is supposed to be the best ever for a Subaru, and sliding doors would kill that marketing angle completely.

    -juice
  • Subaru has kept its vehicles right at or under the 175 cm width , both to avoid higher tax burden in Japan and keep the cars manueverable in all markets, most of which have far narrower streets than US. The result: Fat-bottomed US shoppers continue to complain about lack of rear seat room for 3 adults, especially in the more luxurious Legacy and OB. US manufacturers are making their 7 passenger crossover vehicles around 200cm's wide...which translates directly to more seat room in the rear seat. One way for Subaru to make a somewhat wider vehicle and still sell the same car in all markets is to use sliding rear doors so that Asian and European customers can get in and out in their narrow driveways and streets. Maybe Gunma plant will build the new platform with sliders, maybe it will be a feature only on the 7 passenger version, or maybe its just a unsubstantiated rumor. I would love sliders to get the kids in and out in the garage without scratching my FXT! The new minivans are getting so nice, I'm looking at a 7 passenger crossover as an alternative to a minivan, not as an alternative to another SUV...been there, done that, got the tshirt and the gas bills!

    Mark
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I really think this one is built for the US first and foremost. So I agree, this particular variant of the platform will be a wide body. I also bet it'll have conventional doors.

    We did get a less-than-subtle hint that surprises are in store, what could they be?

    * hybrid power out of the gate?
    * built-in generator?
    * turbo engine?
    * open roof, Studebaker or Element style?
    * air suspension?

    I can't imagine it'll be a totally conventional 250hp H6 with 5 seats now.

    So...what do you think the surprise will be? And what do you want it to be?

    -juice
  • sdufordsduford Posts: 577
    "not as an alternative to another SUV...been there, done that, got the tshirt and the gas bills!"

    Well, don't plan on saving fuel with a Subaru. My 05 Outback XT Ltd 5MT consumes nearly as much gas as my 01 Highlander V6/4AT.

    Not exactly impressive given the Subie is smaller, lighter, more aerodynamic, has a 4 cyl. engine, and a standard transmission.

    And the only way I can best the Highlander's mileage is by watching the fuel mileage computer and being VERY careful not to use the car's performance potential.

    Sly
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The Subie is a lot quicker, though. It has a lot more power. You can't ignore the forced induction.

    The Highlander is geared very tall. It's not that quick at all, IMO. Subaru's last generation H6 is also geared tall and it was still quicker (see Edmunds comparo).

    The new H6 is quicker than the old H6, the new XT is quicker than the new H6. I think it's a whole other level of performance.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    Well my guess is that Subaru will debut some new technology, never before seen on production Subarus. This is afterall, their "flagship;" and it's on flagship products that manufacturers usually introduce new stuff.

    • My guesses>

    • There will be 2 engine choices. I still think hybrid-assist is a strong possibility, simply because the B9SC was shown at so many important international car shows last year. It got as much—if not more—show time that the B11S.

    • I think air suspension is also a strong possibility; certainly a self-leveling rear suspension, at the very least. The B9SC had an adjustable suspension, so Subaru is considering the idea.

    • Maybe also a new tranny of some sort? 6EAT? Dual-range? 6-speed manual?

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    At least the load-leveling shocks available in the JDM Forester.

    Tranny choices - interesting. Dual-range would be new, I think only Mercedes offers one, and the current ML is body-on-frame (that's changing).

    XC90, RX330, X5, none of those have a low range. So it would give the Subie the edge off road.

    -juice
  • sdufordsduford Posts: 577
    Of course it is a lot faster, but still, it's really only 30 HP more. A lot of the performance advantage comes from the lighter weight and the more efficient transmission.

    Subie engines all have poor fuel economy in my opinion, including my wife's Impreza RS. And no it's not just because of AWD. My dad has an old RWD Subie wagon with the 2.2 and it is a real gas hog. Consumes twice as much gas as his much faster Mazda Protege 5.

    Sly
  • lark6lark6 Posts: 2,565
    First time I've voiced it but all along I've felt that the logical choice of a partner for Subaru - technology-wise, if not capital-wise - is Porsche. The Legacy B4 Blitzen shouldn't have been a one-off exercise (I don't think the Impreza Type Euro concept was a Porsche effort, but I could be wrong).

    Of course, VWAG probably wouldn't stand for it, as Subaru grows into a bigger competitor for VW and Audi products.

    Ed
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    First time I've voiced it but all along I've felt that the logical choice of a partner for Subaru - technology-wise, if not capital-wise - is Porsche. The Legacy B4 Blitzen shouldn't have been a one-off exercise (I don't think the Impreza Type Euro concept was a Porsche effort, but I could be wrong).

    I absolutely agree, and said so over a year ago. I had mentioned it in some forum and host-Shifty thought I was nuts. He thought that Porsche's near mythical image would be ruined by hooking with such a "lesser" brand name such as Subaru. I still stand by it, however.

    The Impreza Type Euro was indeed a Porsche effort.

    Porsche is so far "up-market" there will never be anyone cross-shopping the brands. The boxer engine heritage and various collaborations make them a natural. I think it would be a win-win for both companies. I'm not sure if VW would/could put enough pressure on Porsche, not to allow it happen, however.

    Bob
  • lark6lark6 Posts: 2,565
    Well then that makes two of us, Bob. Thanks for correcting me on the Impreza Type Euro info.

    Shifty is a very opinionated guy, shoots from the hip sometimes IMO.

    "Porsche's near mythical image" is already tarnished a bit by producing the Cayenne which, in terms of many performance categories, is outshone in base and S trim (and nearly outshone in Turbo trim) by the lesser Subaru Forester XT and STi at about a quarter of the price.

    The former CEO of one of my former employers said once to me that "Subarus are just a poor man's Porsche," to which I replied "Porsches are just Subarus for people with shareholders' equity."

    Ed
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    "Subarus are just a poor man's Porsche," to which I replied "Porsches are just Subarus for people with shareholders' equity."

    Well put, and I couldn't agree more. :)

    I think the big issue is how would VW (or Audi) fit in here, as they also have long-established relationship with Porsche—plus they're all German, which very important from a marketing standpoint. I think they would fight an "official" Porsche-Subaru hookup. Even though Porsche is its own company, I think VW, being so large and powerful, would exert some arm-twisting "nationalistic" pressure on Porsche not to merge with Subaru.

    The Japanese-European, Nissan-Renault relationship has been a huge success. I think it could also work to the benefit of both Porsche and Subaru too.

    Bob
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,863
    Don't get too excited about the connection. Porsche has a distinct engineering company that gets hired by many manufacturers to design components, whole vehicles, and even things as mundane as forklifts and windmills. It has nothing to do with halo affect. It has to do with expertise and ability to do the job.

    www2.porscheengineering.com
  • lark6lark6 Posts: 2,565
    No excitement here, just sharing Bob's opinion re the embracing of horizontally-opposed engines and a performance heritage. Though Subaru is rightly perceived as being more utilitarian (UK car mags to this day often refer to them as "agricultural") it's worth remembering that Porsche once built tractors.

    Ed
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    Ditto what Ed said. I'm not holding my breath for this to happen. It would be great, but unlikely...

    Bob
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,863
    I just posted that because IIRC, folks on the Mazda6 board were all a flutter because Porsche had some design input on the engine and went for the halo affect. Just like any other contract engineer, Porshce is told what to design and the cost structure it must be made under.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    AWD comes with a price to pay in terms of fuel economy, but I disagree, I think that price is fairly small, all things considered it's a small portion of your TCO.

    Careful otherwise Colin will break out the gas numbers. ;-)

    Legacy wagons get 23/30, that might have been the choice if economy was a priority.

    Porsche is in bed with VW/Audi, even if there isn't an ownership relationship.

    Any help on the B9X could hurt Cayenne sales on the low end.

    Subaru has the capacity and the know-how, for the most part they just approach this market way too cautiously.

    AVCS and Nav are for sale now in the JDM, not here. Fix that.

    -juice
  • jeffmcjeffmc Posts: 1,742
    I thought the '05 LL Bean Forester already had load leveling in the US.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    It does. I was speaking in terms of seeing that on all B9X models, and expanding into other models too (Outback, Baja and all Foresters).

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, the only Forester that has it also the only Forester with the two-tone paint I don't like. Frustrating.

    Come to think of it, B9X really should have this standard.

    -juice
  • dcm61dcm61 Posts: 1,564
    The official microsite URL - http://www.b9x.com

    Currently just has the info from the Miami press release (link from subaru.com home page).

    DaveM
  • dcm61dcm61 Posts: 1,564
    From radiantMATRIX at b9xclub. Supposedly the source of info is from inside Subaru.

    B9X would start at $31900 with 5 seat config.

    All will have H6, 5spd auto w/spt shift, VDC standard

    Monroof and 18" alloys will be standard

    about 5 different trim levels which will bring a loaded B9X close to 40K.

    Every trim level increase would increase price by about $1.5K

    Nav and DVD will be optional/part of trim level.

    3rd row seat will fold flat, mostlikely 2nd row also.

    curtain airbags std.

    Will hit dealers in May.


    Most of the above has already been thru the rumor mill.

    DaveM
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101301

    Sounds very much like the B9X, except for the engines.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    $31,900 is promising. That's less than the OB VDC. I'm not sure that prices are final at this point, so I'll remain cautiously optimistic.

    18"s are good, that's what the Infiniti FX has standard. It'll be among the bigger standard rims.

    5 trims levels, eh? I just hope the cheapest one comes well equipped.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    18"s are good, that's what the Infiniti FX has standard. It'll be among the bigger standard rims.

    The Murano also has 18" rims standard. I think it's a good choice.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Small rims would make it look like a wagon. Aesthetically they needed that.

    -juice
  • sdufordsduford Posts: 577
    Gosh I hope thats not the real front end. That's downright ugly!

    Sly
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I hope those are wrong, I much prefer the sketch.

    Specific issues I have with that drawing (CAD?):

    * too-wide D-pillar makes big blind spot
    * hatch is too angled, I hope it's more upright
    * hood bulges are too subtle

    Overall it just looks wimpy. The sketch is far more muscular.

    I'm going to be nice and ignore that. LOL

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    but I think it's much closer to reality than the sketch. Compare it against the heavily masked test mule photos. I think you'll see this is pretty darn close to those images.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'm still hoping for a squared off hatch. With the 3rd row in place, where are you gonna put the cargo?

    Look at the Rendezvous, you have about enough space for 3 grocery bags, that's it.

    -juice
  • ladywclassladywclass Posts: 1,713
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    I think I've already expressed a good bit of negativity on the vehicle's name, so I'll defer commentary on the styling until we see the real deal.

    For now, all I'll say is that this is going to be one interesting vehicle to market.

    ~alpha
  • wheelz4wheelz4 Posts: 569
    It certainly doesn't look like the luxo-flagship it's supposed to be, although the dull red-clay colour doesn't help. If I had the substantial bucks it's going to require to buy this thing, I think I'd be holding out for the Saab version at this point. I'm sure it will be better looking and who knows, with Subaru's stratospheric pricing, the Saab version might actually be cheaper.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Murano seats only 5, plus I bet the Subaru's interior will be 10 times nicer. Nothing about the Murano says luxury. It's stylish but very mainstream.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    2 kids, that's all. MDX size is fine.

    This is not a bus - I don't expect it to carry 7 adults in a car pool.

    -juice
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Where do you live that the Murano is heavily discounted? Not where I am in NJ. Sure, you'll find deals on the leftover 04s, but rebates on that vehicle are hardly something to decry. According to carsdirect.com, in my area, Muranos are at $200 above invoice.

    Juice- Have you driven the Murano? While I agree that Nissans havent been known for exquisite interiors as of late, the leather clad Murano I was in was one of the much better examples, IMO.

    ~alpha
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I've sat inside several but never driven one.

    Visibility is a concern, but mostly I just felt that it didn't offer anything ground-breaking. It's style over substance.

    The engine is interesting, and the CVT is interesting technically, but I wouldn't want to own the first year or two of that tranny.

    I expect the B9X to be both bigger and more fuel efficient. More practical, mostly. Also much nicer inside.

    I'm not as impressed with Nissan as most folks are; I was blowing the whistle early on in terms of interior quality on their trucks, only now are people realizing what I was talking about. Reliability scores are so-so.

    -juice
  • is this thing mdx size?
  • my odyssey has 7 passenger ( adult or kids )

    these fake 7 passenger things can not be compared to a real 7 passenger.

    5 adults + 2 kids?

    i dont even try to fit 5 in the fxt as it is really a 4 passenger car and given the small back seat its almost 2 adults + 2 kids.
  • jay_24jay_24 Posts: 536
    Is there room for a third row? Those pic appear to have less room behind the second row than my current OBW. With a third row in use there better be room for more than 3 bags of groceries (as someone allready stated)

    Looking at the pics it looks no bigger than a Chevy Equinox. At least Chevy is smart enough not to sqeeze a third row in. Too much weight on or behind the rear axle really changes handling.

    Muranos aren't discounted if they sell above invoice (IMHO). GM and Ford discount. You get a price near invoice and then take off a huge cash back.

    All I really want is it to be wider so 3 adults can easily fit side-by-side in the second row. A third row to seperate a kid from the other two. 28+mpg would be nice too.

    --jay
  • jimc16jimc16 Posts: 21
    Let me explain why I am here. I currently lease a Lexus RX330 FWD. I've had it for 19 months and 17,000 miles and can't wait for the lease to end. It has a performance flaw that can't be fixed. After slowing down to about 10 mph or less then trying to accelerate, there is a delay of about 1 second then a surge of power. Also, sometimes the transmission doesn't know what gear it wants to be in and the total delay is about 2 seconds. This problem is especially bad at intersections where you slow down, turn and accelerate (or try to). I have taken it on test drives with technicians at 2 dealerships. One installed a TSB to improve the transmission problem, but it really didn't help that much. Both told me the problem was related to the traction control, and the computer will only allow a gradual application of power if it senses low traction conditions, like the inside front wheel having poor traction during a turn. Therefore, I decided my next vehicle will have AWD. Although I am a year away from buying, I am looking into the Murano and MDX (considered both when I bought the RX330), and now the B9X. It seems like a good combination of things I am looking for, except for the hideous Edsel front grill in the "Subarunews" links. I hope they don't do that.
  • cptpltcptplt Posts: 1,075
    the blind spot looks like it will be horrific!
    seems like the hatch is a 2 piece affair

    jmc16- the new grille is the new Subaru image, sorry!
  • My friend has a Murano SL AWD...which I drive sometimes. At 20,000 miles I think the CVT transmission may be on it's way out because there is a vibration upon accelleration now.. which I noticed because I don't drive it regularly (does that make sense?).
    What I can say about it is that my new Outback can NOT touch the Murano in terms of seat/leg/foot and overall driver's and passenger's comfort and storage areas in the passenger compartment. Not even close.

    The Murano SL does not handle as well (the ES is what you buy for handling) as my Outback nor is it as fuel efficient (5 mpg difference). Rear visibility in the Murano is lousy.

    I hope the new Subaru B9X has more comfortable seats than my Outback (Subaru is not known for seat comfort). I'm suprised they would go for a design that may hinder rear visibility...being the practical company that they are.

    Also.. what happened to the Tribeca Loft name they were gonna use?
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