Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

martian

My stepson wants to buy one! I tried reasoing with him, but maybe the exalted Shiftright will set him straingt! My guess is, a 164 is just about worthless-the car ended production in 1995 (so parts are probably not avialble). And (unlike the Spyder sprtscar), there is no loyal fan bse for the 164.
Anyway, what's a used 1994 A-R 164 (wit 120,000 miles) worth? :lemon:

Mr_Shiftright

I know of a clean 91 with bent valves that you could have for free.

I guess a nice clean 164 would be worth....maybe $2000 to $2500??

If it's an automatic, he is certainly doomed to catastrophe. You'd be lucky to get 30,000 miles out of a rebuilt transmission.

qbrozen

I like the 164. But, it truly is worthless, therefore finding a nice clean one is extremely difficult.

And I sure hope he does his own work because finding a knowledgable mechanic who will (A) actually work on it and (B) not ask for the deed to your house in advance is also extremely difficult.

Mr_Shiftright

Depends on what it needs. I'd certainly use velcro license plates on it.

lemmer

You can't tell much from pictures, but check out the 1966 Corvair with a $50 roll on paint job. Might this be a solution for a $4,000 car where it makes no sense to spend another $5,000 on a paint job, but you don't want to ruin it with a $1000 Earl Scheib paint job?

qbrozen

that's quite impressive!

I think my wife's bimmer could use that.

By the way, speaking of power polishers, can anyone suggest one? Additionally, I'd love to see a "how to" video or written instructions. I'm so paranoid about burning through the paint.

Mr_Shiftright

Looks good from here. Of course, by his description he has at least 40 hours in it, so it's really a much more expensive paint job, like if you paid a house painter to do it.

I'm surprised the Rustoleum is holding up. My impressions is that Rustoleum is pretty marginal stuff.

I think a good Marine enamel would have been a much better choice.

lemko

I painted the railings on my house three years ago with Rustoleum and it they need to be redone. I wonder what that Corvair would look like in two more years? I wonder how much trouble it will be to remove all that Rustoleum if he decided to get a world-class paint job?

qbrozen

well, like he said in his writeup. If you want a worldclass paintjob, you should be taking it down to bare metal anyway.

He probably prepped the car much better than you did your railing, though. ;b

I'm not saying your wrong, it probably will peel off any day now. Hell, I'm surprised his car lasted a year. I mean, what about clearcoat??

Mr_Shiftright

Back in the old days, cars used to be painted by hand, up to the early 1920s I believe. It would take about 30 days to finish a car by hand. The first hand held spray gun was introduced in the early 20s, and cut finishing time to about 8 days per car.

If you are skilled, patience and have magnificent brushes, you can do a suprisingly good job by hand.

lokki

If you are skilled, patient, and have magnificent brushes

You had me out at strike 1....

fintail

I once knew a guy with a Corvair convertible, it was a period looking pastel light green and I assumed it was original paint. I talked to him about it, and he said he painted it himself with some kind of household enamel. It was pretty even and was holding up OK (car was garaged, so that had to help), but the paint was very flat and I don't think could be made to have any kind of shine.

Sometimes I think the fintail has been repainted with marine enamel or something - I just can't get it to shine up to what I want, but I might just be too picky, and used to clearcoat cars. The paint on that car can look kind of dead too, on flat surfaces, but it does look shiny from a small distance. But if it was repainted, the guy who did it was skilled, as I can't find any real proof - and I don't know if that type of paint could match a factory color perfectly. Maybe it is just age.

Mr_Shiftright

Sometimes paint just goes "dead".

When cars were hand-painted, this was done using many many coats with lots of fine-sanding in between. The finest soft brushes were used (boar's hair I guess?).

Cars done in bright colors back then probably needed to be repainted every few years.

I have seen craftsmen create an absolutely smooth bright finish--no brushmarks, etc. But this type of painting was done in the day when they paid people perhaps $1 a day, and these guys were artisans with man years experience. (until the fumes killed them no doubt)

andre1969

I guess it's pretty hard to duplicate orange-peel with a paint brush, though? Might need to use a roller for that!

Mr_Shiftright

I've seen wooden boats hand-painted by pros, and they look pretty wonderful.

Of course, a gallon of the best marine paint probably costs as much as an entire MAACO paint job!

fintail

I have thought of sanding out the fintail, but I am very leery of creating irreparable damage - I don't want to then have to have the whole car painted, with the bodywork it would entail. A decent quality paint job with a little bodywork would approach the value of the car.

I took it to an experienced older detailer once, he said he tried several methods but couldn't get it to have a glass-like shine either. He seemed to think the car might be repainted with marine paint :confuse: , but I can't agree with that - the color is 100% match for the paint code, and there are no signs of a repaint - runs, overspray, layers, etc - the paint on the car appears to be very stable and hard, just a little dead.

Maybe it is better this way - if I start making things too perfect, the car would break me. It's at a happy enough compromise right now, a driver, a 10-footer.

lemmer

My 944 has an ok respray that is starting to show spiderwebbing everywhere in the harshest sunlight. There is no way I'd pay for a paint job as even an average job without any body work would approach the worth of the car.

It is still a great 10 footer from every angle but the passenger side. It looks like it got egged at some point. I think it is just in the clear coat. When the car is wet you can't see the damage, but when it is dry it looks kinda like the egg is still on it. I wonder if the damage could be wetsanded out.

fintail

Is the spiderwebbing actual cracking in the paint, or just visual flaws? I wonder if it could simply be polished out.

Maybe that spot on your passenger side could be sanded out and them maybe shot with some new clearcoat? I have heard of people simply replacing the clearcoat. Or maybe it could be buffed out with a compound too.

jlflemmons

Back in high school a buddy had a VW bug. It was given to him, and needed a paint job. Well, Homer saved up his money and bought the paint, only to find out what it was going to cost to get it put on the car! So, he bought the best paint brush he could afford, gave the car a light sanding, and brushed on coats (non-reduced) until he ran out of paint. You could sure see the brushmarks, but that paint is probably still stuck to pieces of metal being used somewhere.

fintail

I am sure the current owner of that car appreciates his work :P

In high school a kid I knew had an old Volvo 122/Amazon wagon...he painted it himself in his parents garage with some borrowed equipment. It actually turned out decently enough for a job done by a kid...the only problem was dirt/dust in the paint, but that can be worked down over time. I'd never attempt that...pushing my luck like that would not have good results.

lemmer

I had a friend that sprayed his 280ZX in college. It looked horrible with all kinds of runs, bubbles, dirt, etc. He thought it was concours worthy. A bad paint job is far worse than a older faded one to me.

andre1969

I used to have a neighbor that restored cars, and had a setup in one of his garage bays for painting cars. He did both of my Darts for me. He let me do some of the painting on the first Dart, but he did most of it. He let me do more of the second one, and it didn't come out nearly as well. The biggest problem I remember was flying insects getting attracted to the paint and getting stuck in it, while it was still wet.

I also made the mistake of wearing shorts when we did the first Dart. The mist from the paint ended up coating the hairs on my legs, and took several showers to finally wear off. Luckily it was beige paint, so it just made it look like I had blond hair, and not some wilder color like red or blue!

fintail

I will agree with that. An old paint job has patina, which is finally being given value as the "preservation" ideal becomes popular. A cheap paint job is just cheap, and makes one wonder what else is wrong.

fintail

I never had luck painting model cars...maybe some kind of automated machine in a sealed room would be a good thing to invent and market.

lemko

Oh man! That reminds me of my old next-door neighbor. He had a new black 911 Cabriolet. His wife was constantly fighting with him. Often when nothing good was on television, I'd listen to them go at it instead. The man always seemed to get the worst of it. I remember her bashing down the front door of their house one night. For a little woman, she was pretty strong. One day, I look out the window to see the wife tossing eggs at her husband's Porsche. I just looked on in horror and hoped she didn't get any on my new red 1994 Cadillac which was parked about a car's width away

lemko

Me too! I remember building a model of a 1970 Chevrolet Impala. The parts I painted with a brush came out excellent, but when it came to spraying the body, the results were disappointing at best. I wanted to paint it the same beautiful dark blue metallic as the Impala Custom hardtop my Uncle Daniel once owned. It came out dull and orange-peely. The model still sits hidden in a cabinet in my basement.

Mr_Shiftright

How good a paint job looks is almost entirely dependent on the quality of the spray gun and the skill in the wrist of the sprayer.

A good man/woman with good tools and you'll usually have a nice result.

I saw a paint job once done in a guy's garage using an exhaust fan and a plastic sheet spray booth and man, this paint looked professional. He knew what he was doing, obviously.

texases

"How good a paint job looks is almost entirely dependent on the quality of the spray gun and the skill in the wrist of the sprayer."

That's why I always get a laugh from the 'I don't want to pay for a paint job, so I'll try it myself...how hard could it be?' discussions on various boards. Especially the 'Oh, and I want to change the paint color too.' Wish I could be there to see the results. :surprise: :lemon:

Mr_Shiftright

If you don't have the 'wrist skills' your paint will apply unevenly, and be wet in some places, dry in others, thin here, thick there...it'll look like hell...and just because you bent your wrist and didn't have the right rhythm and pace in your "sweep".

And if your gun is dirty, it'll spit out all kinds of goop.

fintail

When I was a kid I built a model of a 64 Impala - it turned out well enough, but the paint was terrible, dull and orange peely as you say. I chose a dark blue for it, too. I tried to use a fine wet sandpaper on it - made it worse. I think that car ended up being sacrificed to firecracker experiments.

lokki

What's the old joke?

A bum knocks on the door of a mansion, and when the owner of the house answers, begs him for work.
"I'm not looking for a hand-out, mister, I want to earn my keep. I'm hungry -I haven't eaten in two days."

The mansion owners proceeds to give the bum a good lecture about how being poor comes from laziness, but finally decides to take advantage of the offer - and the situation.

"There's a porch on the other side of the house that needs to be painted. I have the paint. I'll pay you $10 to paint it."

The bum tries to argue for more money (It's Dallas in the summer and it's 100 degrees). The owner cuts him off -

"If you weren't so lazy, and you were really hungry, you'd do anything for the money and be glad of it."

The bum agrees to the $10. The owner goes into the house and comes back with two gallons of green paint - and a 2 inch brush.

"I'll be inside; call me when you're done and I'll pay you".

Two hours later, the bum, covered from head to toe in splashes of green paint knocks on the door. The owner, lemonade in hand, answers the door and hands the bum his $10.

"Don't you feel better now?" he asked the bum; "A little hard work now and then is good for you".

As he walked away, the bum said,

"To tell the truth I did kind of enjoy it".

He turned and after a few more steps, turned back to the smiling mansion owner and said -

....

"Oh, by the way, that isn't a Porsche back there - it's a Ferrari

ghulet

I like that one.

I also like this one (well, not THIS one, but these). But, lessee here: just got it running after 14 years, needs 'upholstery, paint and TLC' (in other words, everything; at least it has no rust, allegedly), ergo the Buy It Now price is just....a joke....the old 'I can't even be bothered to uncover, wash, move outta the garage and take decent photos but I want over top dollar' deal. The very nicest of its ilk are only around $15k, and this one lacks the tilt/telescope and climate control:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1966-Fleetwood-60-Special_W0QQitemZ110404311559QQ- - - cmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item19b49c1a07&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkpa- - - rms=65%3A-1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

andre1969

I had a chance to buy one of those back when I was in college, oh, around 1992 I think. It was a black 66, and oddly, sitting at a dealer that specialized in foreign used cars! They were asking $2500 or $2995 or something like that. I test drove it. It was in great shape, and for as big as the thing was, didn't handle as badly as you might think. Maybe my DeSoto helped train me for it!

I thought the back seat was really neat, how it had the little foot rests and drop-down trays. And having 8 power window switches on the driver's door (4 windows and 4 vents) was way cool!

It would've been a neat car to have, but to a college student making around $7.50 per hour at best, who was already beginning to amass a small fleet, I just couldn't justify it.

I imagine not having a/c is going to be only one of many obstacles to selling for that eBay car.

Mr_Shiftright

crickets are chirping at THAT auction, aren't they? Actually his "starting bid" is about full retail, but no one even wanted to pay that for it.

The "problem" of course is that you can buy the Pebble Beach version for about $12,000.

To get from THERE to THERE is going to cost you way more than $9000 bucks.

lemko

Remember that silver 1966 Fleetwood I was tempted to buy for $8K at Carlisle about a year or two ago until I realized that it wasn't going to fit into my garage? That one looked a lot better than the white one in that link.

By no A/C, does he mean the car never had A/C, (very odd for a Fleetwood) or that the A/C doesn't work? I love that brocade upholstery. Too bad it's so ratty. I like that car, but I don't have the time or money I'd like to devote to it. Even if I did, I'd never get a return on the money I invested into it.

andre1969

I don't think the car has a/c at all. At least, I'm not noticing any a/c vents on the dash.

I remember that '66 Fleetwood; that was a nice car. Did we see that at one of the GM shows, or was it one of the Spring or Fall meets? I tried to look back at my old pictures to see if I took a pic of it, but couldn't find it. I also remember that same day, seeing a later model Fleetwood, like a '67-68, that was a light greenish-blue that I really liked. It was pretty ratty compared to that '66 though.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah I'm afraid that cars of this type, in this condition, are going to suffer a grim fate.

lemko

I think it was at one of the Fall Meets as I didn't have my '89 Brougham with me. I recall the seller of the '66 Fleetwood also had a white '89 Brougham for sale as well. We were comparing the sizes of the two cars, and no way could that '66 Fleetwood fit in my garage without knocking down the cement wall in front. My '89 Brougham just barely fits in there. I have maybe 4"-5" inches to spare.

My garage is integrated into my building. To enlarge it would require adding onto the outside of the building, which would be tricky as the driveway slopes down toward the garage door. The other alternative would be to knock down the cement wall in front which would eliminate my basement bathroom and cedar closet all for about 6 extra inches of Cadillac.

Now, the real trick would be for me to be skilled enough to back something as big as that Fleetwood out of my garage without hitting the flower boxes in the corner or the chainlink fence to the left. I'd need the experience of the USS Nimitz's captain to do so.

andre1969

Found it...it was fall 2007. Here's a link to it. I took the pics a little extra-big that time, so it's too big to post here.

gsemike

72 Charger

I've seen worse for the money.... I think

Mr_Shiftright

$6500 seems too high. It's a 1972 for one thing, which few people are crazy about and it's only a 318....you should be able to find an excellent version of this car for $15000. I'd say about $4500 is all the money in the world here. Really it's just a parts car.

explorerx4

a '72 with 102k on it in MA with a CT plate that expired in '74?
maybe the plate is just some window dressing.

ghulet

that silver/black Fleetwood is quiiiite nice, one of the better color combos.

Since someone (Lemko or Andre, can't remember) asked, that white eBay Fleetwood was not factory equipped with a/c (someone else correctly stated...the vents aren't there),nor tilt.....though seems strange now (especially for a car that cost $7k in 1966), it wasn't all that unusual (seen a few non a/c Fleetwoods on eBay, perhaps they were born in cool climates?). The problem with those is (I imagine) restoration costs are high, if you do it right....the fancy Fleetwood-specific upholstery and body trim, all the electrical crap and bulbs and wood and specific body panels......you get the idea. And like shiftright said, they're not all that expensive even in fantastic condition (less than $20k should get you the best one on earth). I could have bought one about, eh, 12-15 years ago, not in great shape, for I think it was $1100. Wish I had now, but I had nowhere to keep it and lived in a lakefront neighborhood where parking was at a premium, can you imagine? It was this really nice sorta metallic medium (not dark not light) with matching metallic leather. Fabulous, but of course it had needs I couldn't tend to.

That Charger looks nice, except the interior's more than a bit ratty, and as was stated, just the 318, and earlier years are better. Still, a reasonable amount of flash for the cash if you're not obsessive, or a purist. I like that it allegedly has no body filler.

explorerx4

red tr 6

green tr 6

nice mgb?

ghulet

....my neighbors had one when I was a kid, they had no children (traded in a '72 Malibu coupe for one, strange). Burgandy w/tan interior, very pretty car, and the husband, at least, loved it. I assume they don't suffer from the same woes that other Triumphs (Spitfire especially) suffered from?

Mr_Shiftright

The TRs don't look too bad for the money...the $13K one had better be real nice for that price, but I've seen higher. The MGB might be a very good deal. It's hard to say with British cars, you have to see them in person. There's so much that could be wrong with them even if they look good.

On the positive side, these are simple cars to restore (presuming no extensive rust) and you can buy just about every part you need. You can even buy an entirely new body for the MGB.

TR6 is a fun car. Weak point is the anchoring point for the differential mount. It can rip out of the chassis (that's not good in case you were wondering). Torquey engine, the usual punishing British ride. Primitive as a dog cart but way fun cars.

ghulet

Can you tell yet that I have an intermittent insomnia problem?? Here's a few wagons (my current obsession) from eBay:

very, very nice:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1957-Buick-Century-Caballero-Estate-Wagon_W0QQite- mZ300324246674QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item45ecb85492&_trksid=p450- 6.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A-2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

it's not-so-nice brethren:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1957-Buick-Estate-Wagon-Project-Car_W0QQitemZ2504- 48961281QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item3a4febdf01&_trksid=p4506.c0.m- 245&_trkparms=65%3A-2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

its very pricey older sibling:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pristine-1953-Buick-Super-8-Estate-Woody-Wagon_W0- QQitemZ180373461685QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item29ff189ab5&_trksid- =p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A-2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

this is cute, my parents had one when I was a baby:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1961-Corvair-Lakewood-Wagon-6-cyl-well-maintained- _W0QQitemZ140327444156QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item20ac2adebc&_trk- sid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A-1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

Unusual to be sure, but you'd have to be, um, eccentric to pay the BIN price:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1961-International-Amulance-With-Original-AIR-HOR- N-Sirn_W0QQitemZ320389492662QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item4a98b3afb- 6&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A-1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

Where's Andre? This looks decent even at the BIN price, how many can be left?:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1962-Chrysler-Newport-Station-Wagon-4dr-Hardtop-M- opar_W0QQitemZ260434507820QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item3ca31b382c&- _trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A-1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

Interesting celeb legacy and loaded to the gills, I hate how the seller 'wanted to keep it original' but lowered it and such; interior looks quite nice, could be saved easily:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1964-Buick-LeSabre-wagon-LS1-4L60E-owned-by-Perry- -Como_W0QQitemZ190315934491QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item2c4fb6b31b- &_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A-1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

ghulet

....oh yeah, can someone tell me how to shrink a link from eBay down to a simple description?

Interesting Pontiac...these are among the best looking wagons, IMO:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/421-Catalina-Safari-Wagon-w-2-2-oprions_W0QQitemZ- 190315920460QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item2c4fb67c4c&_trksid=p4506.- c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A-1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

I like this a lot, wondering where the bidding will go:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PROBABLY-THE-BEST-COUNTRY-SQUIRE-IN-THE-WORLD-LOO- K_W0QQitemZ130314864224QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item1e575f0660&_tr- ksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A-1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

excellent well-optioned 68 Vista Cruiser, with bids to match:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968-Oldsmobile-Vista-Cruiser-Wagon-350-Rocket-Or- iginal_W0QQitemZ140327826095QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item20ac30b2a- f&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A-1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

Decent fuselage with a few lil problems, but BIN price seems OK if you're into this sort of thing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-Plymouth-Sport-Suburban-6-pass-mopar-station- -wagon_W0QQitemZ130314908741QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item1e575fb44- 5&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A-1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1308

srs_49

The TR's remind of the one my buddy from college had. His was white - don't remember the exact year. We would chase each other through some of the back roads in the area - him in his TR-6, and me in my Z-28. That was back before the roads became so gawd awfully crowded.

Me and him used to work on our cars, usually in my dad's garage. And of course, we always had a couple of cold ones handy. Well, one day we were bleeding his brakes and he sat the container of brake fluid down right next to his bottle of beer. Without looking he reached over, grabbed the first thing his hand came in contact with, and took a swig. Yep, you guessed it - brake fluid. Luckily, he was no worse for the experience.

michaellno

....oh yeah, can someone tell me how to shrink a link from eBay down to a simple description?

The way I post a link is to use the "URL" button below the dialog box. Click once to start the process, then paste your link in after it. When you click the "URL" button a second time to close it, there is a piece of text added that says "link title". Highlight and type in the text you want to show up in the finished message.

EDIT: The sentence Highlight and type in the text you want to show up in the finished message. should read Highlight and replace the text "link title" with the text you want to show up in the finished message.