...it seems to be all about the rarity, options, prestige, something of a 'geek factor' (knowing the ridiculous nuances of one car over the other, or every minute detail about its production, etc., as was mentioned above, seems to be important). Enjoying the thing as a car is secondary, if not tertiary. I mean, it might as well be a rare piece of furniture if you only own it as an object and/or investment and you can't drive it.
Fin, I agree, I'd way rather have something a bit obscure (but nothing anyone would make a clone out of!) like a 4-speed Starfire convertible than any Chevelle convertible. I think the Starfire may be hard to find parts for (though many interior and exterior parts are interchangable with other Olds) and expensive to restore, but driving around in a cool car worth maybe $30-40k would be more fun than hauling a half million dollar car around on a trailer!
....if you could live without a four-speed in a Starfire convertible, it hardly seems prudent to spend $3k on a basket case and another probably $20k to fix it up when there's this one for a pretty reasonable sum, IMO:
Well some day (and probably not too far from now) someone is going to wake up and say "Wait a minute, that Chevelle isn't worth $500,000!!" And then everybody else will say "you know, you're RIGHT!"
And then the whole thing will collapse.
It's all in people's heads. Fascinating.
Crazy example:
A mint Barbie doll in her original box, an old one, can be worth $5,000.
A mint genuine large gorgeous pure silver coin of Alexander the Great is worth maybe $2,500.
Barrett-Jackson is just escalating the whole market. I think the most shocking one I saw so far was that '71 Benz 180 that sold for $71K!!! Can ANYONE explain that to me?? I admit, I wasn't listening to what they were saying, did it come with gold bars in the trunk?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Saw the other day a Mk II Jag sedan cross the line for $30K. Was in ok shape. Nice daily driver but not show car condition. Ugly color to boot but still pulled $30K. I liked seeing that, but that's for personal reasons ;-)
I do find some of the prices that come across at Barret-Jackson to be surprisingly high. It really does seem like people don't want to leave empty handed from that auction so they pay more than they would elsewhere. Must really get caught up in the moment and excitement.
must be a special case. Some of the prices are probably because the cars are the cream of the crop, and others are from auction fever (and too many buyers chasing too few cars).
Probably true that peple with money to burn that spent $350 for a buyers pass want to take something home.
That Jag was at least a 4 speed car, but a nasty brown. Of course, I have no idea how hard it is to find a nice one out in the real world.
I didn't see a Benz 180? that I recall. There was 280 3.5 (the big convert) that went fairly high, and I think a red 280SL (1971) that might have done in the 70s.
Even with the prices, there still have to be plenty of people that don't come close to recovering the rediculous amount they spent on the restoration.
THere was a good sidebar on Hemi prices. A confessed close '68ish GTX (orig. 440 car IIRC) went for about 110k, but an original hemi only pulled 60K. Big difference seems to be that the clone was all spiffed up and shiny, but the real car was very original with "patina".
I guess that shows what many bidders focus on. The pricing probably wouldn't work out the same if they were sold through Hemmings or some normal channel.
I didn't see a Benz 180? that I recall. There was 280 3.5 (the big convert) that went fairly high, and I think a red 280SL (1971) that might have done in the 70s.
You may be right. I was going to say 280, but then changed it. In any case, still doesn't change my thinking that over $70K is just insane on this car. Am I wrong? What is so great about it? I don't find it particulary pretty, nor is it any kind of great performer. So what's the deal? I'd MUCH rather have a new SLK.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Well the MK II isn't too rare and there are still plenty out there. As far as the 4-speed, well the Moss box (which is what I remember that particular car having) is perfered over the slushbox but the later all syncro manual that came out is prefered over it.
To be honest with you though, most owners don't mind transmissions swaps to modern 5-speeds....now engine swaps are another thing altogether though!
I was thinking for years that "someday I'll be able to get an XKE" because I actually want the least desirable model (2+2 6-cylinder). Well, one went the other night on BJ for, I believe, about $26-$27k (series 2, 2+2, 6-cylinder, 4-spd). I guess I missed my window.
Granted, still not a horrible price for such a beautiful car, but out of my range for any kind of toy.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
looks just like theone they sold. DOn't recall the mileage though. I believe it was a 1 owner with pretty low miles original, but for soemthing like this, I would prefer that someone just spent the money to freshen it up, do the AC, etc. basically the expensive stuff to fix on a 30 YO car.
35K for a super nice one seems reasonable to me. 75K does seem a bit high.
all original and untouched only sounds like a good idea if you want to put it into a museaum exhibit. Not if you want to actually use the car.
Is that possibly what I saw the price for? Like I said, I wasn't listening ... maybe they were showing the price for that car and just happened to show an SL ... I'm doubting myself now. Wish I had DVR'd it.
Just did the math. That SE sold for $71k. The $76,680 they show on the site is $71k plus the 8% buyer fee. So I MUST be thinking about the price on this car.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
That money for that 280SE isn't the worst in the world. It might not be a huge bargain, but you could do worse...those cars have been cherished since new and will always have some value. That car looks very correct, I am assuming it is legit.
That 84 280SL is just another grey market oddball - I am not sure about those wheelcovers being used so late. No bargain, it's kind of a clattery engine.
Also you have to keep in mind that some of the bids you are seeing are "chandelier bids", that is, phony bids done to save face for the auction. They hate "no bids" on cars or very low bids on a high reserve. So if the reserve is $100K, and the only real bids are $20K, the auction company will throw in a bid on a shill for $90K and then say "not sold", reserve not met. Also sometimes a seller puts his car at no reserve and the bids are so low he has to bid on his own car to keep it (and pays the auction fees but of course doesn't have to buy the car himself).
Then, too, you will often see a car selling for $80K at B-J being offered for $55K a few months later.
If the high-priced car isn't rare, documented or authentic, what you pay at B-J is definitely not going to pass the test of time.
Some guys have a bit too much to drink and they know their buddies are watching them on TV...and besides, if you have 100 million bucks, bidding $80,000 is like getting the car for free. It's like you or me buying a candy bar.
Yeah it'll never happen....but I've had curiosity. Especially if I cleaned 'er up with a set of wide whites and mentioned that Roch Hudson drove an identical car in a bad movie.
I think Mopars had those non-round wheels at the height of Exner weirdness. Maybe 59-62? Although I think they toned it down a notch yet kept it out of round in Chryslers a little later.
The only old body or Mark II Range Rover I have ever really liked is the Holland & Holland edition.
They only made a 100 or so of these for the US and one is on Ebay now. It has way too many miles on it but since there were so few you can't be choosy.
I really don't like these big televised auctions. It is like those reality TV shows that aren't really reality. Just because some billionaire paid $200,000 for a VW bug that Marilyn Monroe farted one day doesn't mean every tapped out '73 Super Beetle is worth 200k (totally made up example). Thats why its on tv, and thats why its newsworthy, it doesn't happen every day. Otherwise the whole auction would be selling 2 year old CPO Toyota Camarys. I think its interesting, but those cars, are for the most part, not the cars we see on eBay and Craigslist or Autotrader (or even Hemmings, for the most part). Those cars have pedigree and were restored or stored by someone who presumably knew what they were doing. The beater El Camino with more bondo than metal doesn't end up there, and getting one in that condition for $10k because "one just like it restored went for 50k @ BJ" is not a good deal (again, made up example). Its neat to see some of the rare cars, and the cars in #1 original condition with no restoration, but that ultra rare Yanko Camaro isn't the same as the '67 rust bucket in middle America's back yard. And as long as I'm venting a little, resto-mods aren't restored vehicles, they are artistic interpretations of cars. I am definitely not saying that as a bad thing, again, its just not that '83 Camaro someone put a cop car LT1 in when they blew the head gasket on the 305. A resto-mod at that level is a piece of art, each one is totally original, like having a signed painting. These aren't the same as the 88 CRX with a B16a swaps on eBay, either. I guess the bottom line is, its worth what someone will pay for it, and there is a sucker born every minute, but I wouldn't re-finance my house to buy and restore that basket case 6 cylinder Chevelle just yet, at least not expecting any ROI.
I'd be very wary of Rover reliability, especially the modern ones out of warranty. Very risky used car purchase IMO and not likely to work out well (except for the seller). Maybe good as a short trip commuter type vehicle but I wouldn't take one on a long trip anywhere unless you're willing to relocate.
I think the earlier 240z is the one to get, 69-73. The 260 wasn't as powerful as it was chubby, and by the 280, the game was pretty much over. While I hesitate to mess up anything that is in good original condition, a popular mod for those later guys was to drop a 350 in it, and that kind-of made up some of the power. That Lincoln in the next post though, that thing is HUGE. and a 460. That is bigger than my house.
I work at a Rover Dealer so I know the issues. I just kind of like the look and the some what rarity with only 100 imported. The first time the air suspension fails I would just do a coil conversion and that would be that.
if I've posted it before, but this handsome beast caught my eye. Some of the ad copy is pretty hysterical though, like "This vehicle looks great, but to win shows is going to need $300-$400 worth of paint work where paint has faded." Now, I honestly can't see too many people dying to put this in car shows...I think this falls more under the category of "something only Andre could love"
I'm a bit leery of it though...something about it looks repainted to me, and I've noticed a conspicuous scarcity of exterior shots. I wonder if the rear quarters are all bondo'ed up?
not surprisingly, this beauty has me kinda excited. Even though I already have one! My '76 Grand LeMans has a nicer interior and is better optioned (although interestingly this one has the same seats...maybe the Sport Coupe used Grand LeMans seats instead of the base level seats?), but this one has a 400-4bbl!
Just think, 180 incredible horsepower...why that's a whopping 25 more than the 350-2bbl in my Grand LeMans! :P
The ad also says it's a 50th anniversary edition, but if there is such a thing, I've never heard of it. Also, I kind figured a Sport Coupe would've had the buckets and a console? :confuse: Many Sport Coupes had the louvered quarter windows, but you could get the little opera window as well.
It's true. There was a 50th Anniversary edition of the 1976 Pontiac LeMans and I believe there was a Grnad Prix version. It commemorates the 50th anniversary of Pontiac which was established in 1926 as a junior make to the Oakland. I think Oakland expired after 1931, but Pontiac still soldiered on. Buick and Oldsmobile had junior makes - Marquette and Viking respectively.
wasn't one of those companion makes actually an upscale version? Can't remember if it was Marquette or Viking, but I thought one of them was a "Senior", and not a "Junior"?
I like the Electra, and could even handle that peachy looking color! I'm not that crazy about the exterior color, but I think the inside actually looks pretty nice! I always thought Electras of that time were among the more tastefully styled and appointed of the upscale domestics.
Since you work at a Rover dealership I'll let you answer this one- are there Land Rover models/products from any one particular year that should be avoided due to some design defect or something? (i.e., '92-'95 Range Rovers, etc)
Ehhh In general I would not advise owning an older Land Rover out of warranty cause the repairs are just incredibly high if they do break down. That being said they are unique and if you don't drive it a lot and/or don't mind paying the cost they are neat vehicles. On the Mark II or P38 Range Rovers built from 1995-2002 the air suspension is the big thing that will fail and it is expensive. Best just to replace it with a coil conversion kit if you plan to actually use the car and give up on the air bags. The conversion kits are normaly in the 3000 dollar range to install.
Don't own a Discovery that is not a series II so no 1999 and under ones and the best Discos are the last two years so 2003 and 2004.
Freelanders are funny cars but there is nothing else in their size range that is as capable off road. The trannys are weak in them for all years though just not strong enough for the weight of the vehicle.
2003 and 2004 Range Rovers have a front diff failiure problem that has been corrected now in 2006. 2005 models are different from the 2003 and 2004 editions but none of them have enough mileage to see if they actually fixed the problem yet. The 2006 front diff is totaly different so none will have issues.
The new LR3 and Sport are fabulous cars and besides the normal first model year teething trobles no known issues yet.
Wagoneer might be worth $100 in Alaska (not here) with a bad motor. Kinda depends on whether you could at least drive it to check out what else is bad. But if it's real clean, a junkyard motor would fix you right up and you'd have your Alaska cheapo 4X4. Of course, I would certainly check on what a RUNNING '86 Wagoneer costs in Alaska before I did anything.
The S10 can go to the wrecker.
The "Alaska Gem" sounds pretty good---but you're right, it could be ghastly...
Comments
I've never seen a 4 speed in one of those
Fin, I agree, I'd way rather have something a bit obscure (but nothing anyone would make a clone out of!) like a 4-speed Starfire convertible than any Chevelle convertible. I think the Starfire may be hard to find parts for (though many interior and exterior parts are interchangable with other Olds) and expensive to restore, but driving around in a cool car worth maybe $30-40k would be more fun than hauling a half million dollar car around on a trailer!
http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/2/4/81821124.htm
And then the whole thing will collapse.
It's all in people's heads. Fascinating.
Crazy example:
A mint Barbie doll in her original box, an old one, can be worth $5,000.
A mint genuine large gorgeous pure silver coin of Alexander the Great is worth maybe $2,500.
go figure...
(supply and demand of course).
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I do find some of the prices that come across at Barret-Jackson to be surprisingly high. It really does seem like people don't want to leave empty handed from that auction so they pay more than they would elsewhere. Must really get caught up in the moment and excitement.
Probably true that peple with money to burn that spent $350 for a buyers pass want to take something home.
That Jag was at least a 4 speed car, but a nasty brown. Of course, I have no idea how hard it is to find a nice one out in the real world.
I didn't see a Benz 180? that I recall. There was 280 3.5 (the big convert) that went fairly high, and I think a red 280SL (1971) that might have done in the 70s.
Even with the prices, there still have to be plenty of people that don't come close to recovering the rediculous amount they spent on the restoration.
THere was a good sidebar on Hemi prices. A confessed close '68ish GTX (orig. 440 car IIRC) went for about 110k, but an original hemi only pulled 60K. Big difference seems to be that the clone was all spiffed up and shiny, but the real car was very original with "patina".
I guess that shows what many bidders focus on. The pricing probably wouldn't work out the same if they were sold through Hemmings or some normal channel.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
You may be right. I was going to say 280, but then changed it. In any case, still doesn't change my thinking that over $70K is just insane on this car. Am I wrong? What is so great about it? I don't find it particulary pretty, nor is it any kind of great performer. So what's the deal? I'd MUCH rather have a new SLK.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
i think i'll buy it and double my money!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1971-280SL-ROADSTER-LAST-YEAR-PRODUCED-CAIFORNIA-- CAR_W0QQitemZ4604140157QQcategoryZ6338QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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To be honest with you though, most owners don't mind transmissions swaps to modern 5-speeds....now engine swaps are another thing altogether though!
Granted, still not a horrible price for such a beautiful car, but out of my range for any kind of toy.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
35K for a super nice one seems reasonable to me. 75K does seem a bit high.
all original and untouched only sounds like a good idea if you want to put it into a museaum exhibit. Not if you want to actually use the car.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
If it was 70K for a 280SL, the car would have to have some special provenance. Immaculate drivers don't get out of the 20s.
It must have been some kind of 280 badged car - the last 180 was sold in NA ca. 1961.
and on a completely different note, this big engined old tank seems interesting for the dough
But I'm looking at barrett-jacksons site and they don't have any Mercedes listed as selling for that much.
they don't list that 280SE, either, though.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/auctionresults/common/cardetail.asp?id=182575
Is that possibly what I saw the price for? Like I said, I wasn't listening ... maybe they were showing the price for that car and just happened to show an SL ... I'm doubting myself now. Wish I had DVR'd it.
Just did the math. That SE sold for $71k. The $76,680 they show on the site is $71k plus the 8% buyer fee. So I MUST be thinking about the price on this car.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/auctionresults/common/cardetail.asp?id=182667
sounds like something i can pick up at the local BHPH.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
That 84 280SL is just another grey market oddball - I am not sure about those wheelcovers being used so late. No bargain, it's kind of a clattery engine.
Geez I wonder what my fintail would bring.
Although I had to admit when the Mk II closed at 30K (and wasn't show car quality) the same thought crossed my mind.
Then, too, you will often see a car selling for $80K at B-J being offered for $55K a few months later.
If the high-priced car isn't rare, documented or authentic, what you pay at B-J is definitely not going to pass the test of time.
Some guys have a bit too much to drink and they know their buddies are watching them on TV...and besides, if you have 100 million bucks, bidding $80,000 is like getting the car for free. It's like you or me buying a candy bar.
47K original miles? How many of them were behind a tow truck?
A moeny pit waiting to be opened up
A rarity pretty much anywhere in the US
Seems overpriced for the condition
On the other hand....
Pretty lousy pictures, but seems to be a fair price
I think Mopars had those non-round wheels at the height of Exner weirdness. Maybe 59-62? Although I think they toned it down a notch yet kept it out of round in Chryslers a little later.
That Pinzgauer should be worth it to someone.
The rest of the cars I wouldn't give you $3,500 for all of them together...
They only made a 100 or so of these for the US and one is on Ebay now. It has way too many miles on it but since there were so few you can't be choosy.
What do you think?
Holland & Holland
I think its interesting, but those cars, are for the most part, not the cars we see on eBay and Craigslist or Autotrader (or even Hemmings, for the most part). Those cars have pedigree and were restored or stored by someone who presumably knew what they were doing.
The beater El Camino with more bondo than metal doesn't end up there, and getting one in that condition for $10k because "one just like it restored went for 50k @ BJ" is not a good deal (again, made up example).
Its neat to see some of the rare cars, and the cars in #1 original condition with no restoration, but that ultra rare Yanko Camaro isn't the same as the '67 rust bucket in middle America's back yard.
And as long as I'm venting a little, resto-mods aren't restored vehicles, they are artistic interpretations of cars. I am definitely not saying that as a bad thing, again, its just not that '83 Camaro someone put a cop car LT1 in when they blew the head gasket on the 305. A resto-mod at that level is a piece of art, each one is totally original, like having a signed painting. These aren't the same as the 88 CRX with a B16a swaps on eBay, either.
I guess the bottom line is, its worth what someone will pay for it, and there is a sucker born every minute, but I wouldn't re-finance my house to buy and restore that basket case 6 cylinder Chevelle just yet, at least not expecting any ROI.
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/car/127327425.html
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/car/127173921.html
Given the miles, this is a maybe
That Lincoln in the next post though, that thing is HUGE. and a 460. That is bigger than my house.
Otherwise, paying $600k for a $40k car has got to be an all-time dumbest car purchase.
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/auctionresults/common/cardetail.asp?id=183765
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I'm a bit leery of it though...something about it looks repainted to me, and I've noticed a conspicuous scarcity of exterior shots. I wonder if the rear quarters are all bondo'ed up?
Just think, 180 incredible horsepower...why that's a whopping 25 more than the 350-2bbl in my Grand LeMans! :P
The ad also says it's a 50th anniversary edition, but if there is such a thing, I've never heard of it. Also, I kind figured a Sport Coupe would've had the buckets and a console? :confuse: Many Sport Coupes had the louvered quarter windows, but you could get the little opera window as well.
I think this Andre-mobile looks like a nice example
From the article, the Marquette looked like a junior Buick.
Don't own a Discovery that is not a series II so no 1999 and under ones and the best Discos are the last two years so 2003 and 2004.
Freelanders are funny cars but there is nothing else in their size range that is as capable off road. The trannys are weak in them for all years though just not strong enough for the weight of the vehicle.
2003 and 2004 Range Rovers have a front diff failiure problem that has been corrected now in 2006. 2005 models are different from the 2003 and 2004 editions but none of them have enough mileage to see if they actually fixed the problem yet. The 2006 front diff is totaly different so none will have issues.
The new LR3 and Sport are fabulous cars and besides the normal first model year teething trobles no known issues yet.
An "Alaska Gem" means the body is almost completely rusted away, but mechanically, it is top notch!
Wow...speaking of gems, this fella is quite the salesman!
Hahaha.... a litter of kittens in the back seat!
REAL projects... would YOU hold them, or fold them?
This thing sounds like it has been beaten to death! Hmm... worn out Hummer or brand new car... decisions, decisions
The S10 can go to the wrecker.
The "Alaska Gem" sounds pretty good---but you're right, it could be ghastly...
The prospective buyer gets to guess what it is