2009 Toyota Corolla

backy

Eventhough Fitzmall and Carmax say they selling at invoice price, but I know for sure that they are not.

So you accuse two dealerships of false advertising, but the rest of your post doesn't back up that accusation. What proof do you have that these dealers are not selling their cars at the prices they advertise on the Internet? Have you talked with those dealers and asked for a price quote? Just because your local dealer isn't selling Corollas at the same price that other dealers advertise doesn't mean those dealers won't uphold their advertised prices.

I can see where it would be near impossible to find an LE with VSC. That is the case in my region also. Too bad that Toyota is making buyers go to the uplevel trims to get features like alloys, keyless entry, and cruise--and even VSC--that are either standard on competitors or widely available even on low-end trims.

thaip

of course you can't get hard proof. However, if a smaller dealer can get a lower invoice price then the price of these big dealers advertise their selling invoice price. Logically thinking, it may or may not be true, that a larger dealer should get a lower invoice, since they purchase more in term of numbers. I am not saying that these larger dealers are not offering a good deal. It is just a little bit suspicous that they say they are selling at invoice price and when I compare that price to my local dealer invoice, it is a little higher. I agree that these larger dealers have more varities and that may give them an upper hand when come to selling.

thaip

Yes, I have contacted the big auto malls and in fact, I just purchased the 09 LE with Alloys, VSC, Keyless & Cruise from them. I didn't want to wait for 6 weeks if I place an order with my local dealer. I don't care much about the price difference but waiting for 6 weeks is a little bit much. In addition, the price from these big auto malls is also very reasonable especially in a very early production.

mackabee

You make no sense at all. Invoice is invoice period. All Toyota dealers pay the same in the same region. Carmax and Fitzmall sell at invoice because they pay a flat commission to their sales force and their object is to move as much metal as they can. High volume dealers get concessions from the distributors in more allocated inventory and bonus cars. If you don't believe they sell for what they advertise, sue them.

mackabee

I don't know why people are having a hard time finding Corollas with VSC, Keyless entry and alloy wheels. There are plenty of LE's with those options or just the first two in my area.
Mack

backy

Allocations to each region are different, right? So what's true in your area may not be true in others. But that's great for buyers in your area that there's lots of well-equipped LEs to choose from.

thaip

I just purchase the LE with Alloys, VSC, Keyless and Cruise from Fitz at their invoice as they claimed. In fact, it is like $200 below. I went to a smaller dealer in NJ and the manager said that the invoice of the same car would be about $300 cheaper than Fitz's selling price.

I live in NJ and I searched all the local dealers including my neighbor NYS and I couldn't find any LE with all the above mentioned options. To me, it is a contradiction between Fitz's selling price and what the manager at my local store said.

Anyway, I found what I was looking for but just a little drive to pick up my car! It would be nice if they have more LE with VSC, and Alloys. I found many LEs with VSC but not with Alloys.

Believe it or not, some of the local dealers in NJ and NYS even said that the LE doesn't come with Alloys. They even said Toyota sometime say one thing and do another thing. Anyway, I guess many of these dealers will say anything as long as they can sell what in their lots.

I found what I was looking for and that is my end of the searching journey!

moparbad

I don't know why people are having a hard time finding Corollas with VSC, Keyless entry and alloy wheels. There are plenty of LE's with those options or just the first two in my area.
Mack

Equipment on Toyota's by region is as different as Ford vs. Chevy.

kdhspyder

Wow different markets...

We sold out our last 08 around Feb 15th. We've only had 09's since President's Day W/E. But we still have six 08 Matrix's that won't move. the 09s are here as well but we're not showing them. According to District rep's summary of Feb the SE VA district outturned the nation in cars mainly because of Corolla sales.

mackabee

Well, they are right. Alloys are an option. Some dealers preference the car with alloys and without.

mackabee

Well, they are right. Alloys are an option. Some dealers preference the car with alloys and without. Also NJ is part of central atlantic toyota that's why you found your car.

jilliew

I believe that they all (Corollas) have the EPS. I think it's the wave of the future. The Prius has it also and I'm not sure about what else. This is my first Toyota and I bought the XLE model and I love it, EPS and all. I also got a good deal.

backy

At least alloys are easy (and fairly inexpensive) to add aftermarket. But features like keyless remote and especially VSC are not.

mackabee

Yep, EPS is coming on all Toyotas soon. Right now the Prius, Highlander, Sequoia, RAV4, Corolla, and Yaris have it.
Mack

kdhspyder

Keyless remote is even cheaper and easier to do than adding alloys. $250 tops at any local electronics boutique.

VSC is a factory install only.

jaxs1

I looked at a car on eBay and this window sticker shows XM with 90 day trial included with the JBL even though the BuildAToyota site allows you to choose XM as an accessory even if you have already selected XM.
So, it looks like in reality, there is no extra cost to XM if you pay for the $1060 JBL stereo,
I knew it made no sense to expect people to pay hundreds more for XM when they have already spent so much on the JBL stereo.



That car is equipped exactly how I would want it if I were to buy a Corolla assuming there is still enough headroom with the moonroof,

mackabee

Looks like this one is an XRS based on the base price. Where is the VIN and where is this car being sold? Toyota puts xm on some cars with the free 90 day trial. Only a few from what I've seen. Like I said before not many customers ask for it. They rather have Bluetooth than satellite radio.
Mack

jaxs1

It is an XLE with bluetooth AND satellite radio and the sticker makes it appear that XM is automatically included with the JBL stereo.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Toyota-Corolla-BRAND-NEW-09-XLE-BLUE-AUTOMATIC-SU- NROOF-ARIZONA_W0QQitemZ260214305814QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item260214305814#

mackabee

You're right. I looked up the base price last night on my docs and it is the XLE.
Mack

jjanders

Hey, I've read through some of this thread but can't get through all 2500 posts, so this might have been addressed:

The 1.8L motor in the 2009, is this the same as the last gen or is this a "redesign"

I am interested in the '09 Corolla but usually shy away from first year redesigns so they can get the kinks out. However if the engine and powertrain are pretty similar to last gen I would feel more comfortable. Just wondering if I should be wary of this first year model or not. Thanks.

kdhspyder

Same size engine but the prior model was a VVT-i while this one is a dual VVT-i. It's a new engine for the Corolla but it's been out for just under a year here in the Scion xD. It's not really a new engine.

jaxs1

The mystery has been solved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5HWl_zmKs0

thaip

I didn't find it in either NJ or NY. I found it in MD. Anyway, the matter to me is I found what I was looking for. There are not many or should I say very difficult to find an LE with Alloys.

jilliew

My sticker says the same thing as yours, and I do have XM radio along with the JBL.. Made sure before I drove it off the lot. Haven't activated it yet. I also have steering wheel audio and hands free control. My car is an '09 XLE. When I was going to buy a Prius the JBL was cheaper and didn't include the XM ratio so that is probably why this system is more expensive. .

jaxs1

I liked that it was quiet compared to other compact cars and had automatic headlights (turn on automatically when it gets dark) and automatic door locks even on the LE. LE standard stereo sounded reasonable, so I would expect the JBL to sound really great if it is much improved.

The car's size was barely adequate, bordering on being a bit too small for me. I felt the front seat could have still went back a couple more inches even though the seat track is a little longer than the 2007s
I had to fidget with adjusting the seat height, backrest, and slightly adjustable tilt/telescoping wheel for a long time before I found the most comfortable position and even then was never really all that comfortable. The seat bottom could have been a bit longer.
I didn't like the hard plastic center armrest. It would make your forearm sore on a long trip.

Headroom was just adequate without the moonroof, so it would probably really tight for me with a moonroof. There were none with moonroof available to verify this.

Most annoying feature was the placement of the clock. It is not in the radio or anywhere on the dash, but is low in the instrument panel in a multifunction display. If you use that display to show outside temperature, fuel economy or anything else, then you have no clock at all. Even if you leave it set on the clock function, it's not that easy to see in that position. You have stick your hands through the wheel and press the stalk to change the function and that's quite awkward while driving.
It was dumb not to have a dedicated clock display or at least put it in the radio.

The car also had an annoying plastic vibration rattling /squeaking noise on the highway. I hate rattles and squeaks and that's extra annoying when a car is brand new.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ariMwGN1rk

I test drove 2008 Elantra SE afterwards and the Elantra was roomier and more comfortable front and back. It had a rear center armrest and enough headroom even with the moonroof option. More leg and knee room than the Corolla also. It was about as quiet as the Corolla at cruising speed, but the engine noise was much louder when accelerating. The Elantra's 4th gear was a bit taller so it was more relaxed at highway speeds.

I was not completely satisfied with either car. I'm not sure a few seconds of engine boom accelerating on a freeway onramp in the Elantra is worse than feeling a bit cramped in the Corolla.
I may need to move a class up in cars.

roxy11

the tach looks exactly halfway between 2600 and 2800, so ill call it 2700 at 70 mph. i find that acceptable. hopefully the 5 speed wont be much higher. id like it to be under 2900.

ez2beme00

I know what you mean, I really wanted to like the the new Rolla. My wife and I had a 01 Corolla. We test drove an XLE with every option but Nav. and while it is a much better car, the 08 Camry was still a better bargain with incentives. We traded in a 06 Camry LE for an 08 Camry SE with every option except nav. and leather for the same lease payment as the XLE Corolla. My wife loves the JBL Bluetooth, she's kind of techno geek but won't admit it.

backy

I got to sit in a Corolla LE, a Matrix S, and a Vibe (base model) today at my local auto show. The Matrix and Vibe seemed nearly identical inside. Which was not a good thing. The good news is that I was able to find a tolerable driving position in all 3 cars. They seem to have the same wheel and seat adjusters, which is not surprising. When I set the telescopic wheel to its outermost setting and put the seat as low as it would go, I found acceptable thigh and back support, although I wished the wheel were a little closer.

At the risk of sounding like I'm bashing the Corolla, I'll say that the one word that best sums up my opinion of the Corolla's interior is: cheap. It's clear to me Toyota is putting its money for the Corolla someplace other than the interior. Maybe the engine, maybe the safety gear. Someplace else. Examples: black plastic HVAC controls that looked and felt cheap (I could hardly believe that the mode selector was manual, not electronic as on most cars today.) These seem to be common on Toyotas--I found the same controls on the RAV4 I checked out. (Although the Camry had much nicer looking and feeling knobs.) Another example: hard, cheap looking plastic everywhere, including the center armrest. The door panels looked especially cheap. Not just that they were hard--that is more and more common these days. But the plastic actually looked like something out of a Hyundai from the 1980s. The plastic on the Matrix/Vibe around the shifter and floor console felt thin and cheap. There's more, but why belabor the point.

As others have noted, the back seat of the Corolla is not very roomy. I was able to squeeze in behind myself in back (I'm 5'10"), but my knees were elevated and thighs had too little support. No center armrest back there to make things a little comfier.

So maybe the Corolla, and Matrix/Vibe, offer a quiet drive with high fuel economy. But I don't think the interior of the cars would be a happy place to spend a lot of time.

mackabee

Good observation backy. I've been saying this for years now about the cheap hard plastic Toyota is using on the cars. Customers won't put up with that kind of quality.
Mack

backy

I won't put up with it as long as there are good alternatives that also offer nicer interiors. Which there are. But if the decontenting binge continues across the industry, maybe in a few years we'll be lamenting the great quality of the 2009 Corolla's interior. :sick:

echo2001

The cheap interior made me step up to The S model to get it at least in black

thaip

Is anyone out there exprienced the following situation: I just pick up my 09 Corolla LE, when I just step on the gas pedal, the rpm jump very fast to between 2.7 and 3.5. Now, when I get the car to average about 65 to 70, the rmp is at between 2.7 and 2.9.

I don't know if this condition due to higher torgue in the engine or something wrong with it?

thanks

boyco88

i have not noticed that problem with mine. I have the LE also. But for me 60-65 the rpm is below 2.5, I usually make sure it doesn't go past. If I am going 65-70 the rpm will just be a little bit over 2.5 but no where close to 2.9. more like 2.5-2.7.

kdhspyder

Agreed on the plastic interiors, with a qualifier. What's most important to us as the driving public? Obviously it's going to be different for each of us but personally I'll take safety, comfort, reliability, amenities ( primarily quietness ) then performance in that order.

Oh price and value!!!

The standard model Corolla VE in 1998 ran about $13000 for a 3AT and essentially it had nothing in it,
no ABS,
two airbags,
AM/FM but no CD,
rollup windows, manual locks, no cruise,
no seat adjustments, tilt-only steering wheel
31-38 FE ( pre 2008 standards )

That same vehicle today with absolutely nothing in it would cost about $16600 ( 2.5% annual increase ) and it was a lot smaller then. Personally I wouldn't pay for over $16000 for such a vehicle under any circumstances.

Inflation and the progression of prices/costs is a fact of life but no amount of 'making do' could get me to purchase one of those older models at today's $16600 prices.

But I do think that $17500 is reasonable for a new standard model 4AT Corolla considering that it comes standard with..
ABS
6 airbags
AM/FM, CD / AUX
rollup windows, power locks, no cruise
some seat adjustment, tilt and telescoping SW
27 - 35 FE ( 30 - 38 pre-2008 standards )
for a much larger quieter vehicle.

The reliability presumably is still there, the fuel economy is still there, the safety equipment is far superior, it's bigger ( a plus for me ), it's quieter and it has far better performance ...all for the same inflation-adjusted price as the 'strippie' 1998 model.

But the plastic interior is not as 'good'. Oh darn.

jaxs1

Car makers generally do not increase prices of the same car anywhere near 2.5% a year.

nippononly

It's becoming a given in the industry that cars will have cheap plastic interiors under $25K MSRP. OK, if I have to accept it I will. But why put HARD surfaces where my elbows are going to sit? Toyota does this in all the lower-end models, including now the '09 Corolla and Matrix. Honda doesn't. So in the Toyotas my elbows get bruised, in similarly priced Hondas they don't.

Advantage: Honda.

And the extra cost for that padded plastic or cloth to cover those surfaces is what? $4?

mcdawgg

As always, good post! I had already thought the same thing - I have a '99, and wow, the '09 is so much better for the same amount of money. Yes, there are interior cut-backs, but most people say that the new Corolla's interior is fine, all things considered. If that is the only major complaint, then Toyota did a great job.

jaxs1

If the top of the dash is hard plastic, that doesn't really matter because there isn't any reason to be touching it, but people need to complain to Toyota about the hard plastic armrest.
It's really asinine and arrogant to sell a cars with rock hard center armrests.
Are they going to try making the seats out of hard plastic next?

Hard plastic dash pieces that rub against each other are also more likely to make creaking and rattling noises and that will get very annoying.

backy

Obviously it's going to be different for each of us but personally I'll take safety, comfort, reliability, amenities ( primarily quietness ) then performance in that order.

Right, each buyer has different requirements:

Safety: That is very important to me. Which is why I lament how difficult it is to find a reasonably-priced Corolla with VSC in my region, and I can find it more easily on some competitors.

Comfort: That is important to me also, especially a comfortable driving position. As I stated, the Corolla's driving position is an improvement over 2003-8 in that I was able to find a tolerable position. Not great, not as good as several other cars in this class, but tolerable. An improvement, but not a differentiator in favor of the Corolla. Also, when the front center armrest is rock-hard, the rear seat bottom provides little thigh support, and there's no rear center armrest as on many other cars in this class, that doesn't rank high on my Comfort Meter.

Reliablity: The 2009 Corolla is unproven there and has a new engine. But the odds of it being reliable are very good, based on the Corolla's history. But that is no longer the big differentiator it used to be.

Amenities: To me, quietness is not an amenity but a different requirement altogether. When I think of amenities, I think of things like lighted vanity mirrors (was not in the Corolla I sat in), comfortable arm rests (nope), leather-covered wheel and shifter (not on the LE at least; maybe on other, pricier, trims?), adjustable lumbar support (nope), heated power side mirrors (power, yes; heated?), trip computer with FE meter (don't think the LE I was in had that), smoothly damped controls (nope), steering wheel controls for cruise and audio (cruise is optional, and no audio controls on the car I was in), telescopic steering wheel (yes!), alloy wheels (optional) etc.

$17,500 for a car with the features you mentioned is not really all that good IMO considering there are lower-priced alternatives with more standard safety features, more comfort, proven reliability, way more amenities, and more power. It's really not relevant to me to compare today's Corolla with one from 1998. (Maybe that works for you in your sales pitches to uninformed buyers, though.) To me, what's relevant is what other cars can I buy today, at what price.

backy

Hard plastic that people normally don't touch isn't a big issue unless that plastic also looks cheap (and as you said, doesn't result in squeaks/rattles). In the case of the Corolla, it does look cheap. Some automakers, e.g. Honda, have done a better job with hard plastic that doesn't manage to look cheap.

kdhspyder

Car makers generally do not increase prices of the same car anywhere near 2.5% a year.

I'm not so sure. Everything that goes into a vehicle such as steel, labor, electricity, oil, plastics ( made from oil ), subcontracted parts, tires ( made partly from oil ) and a whole variety of materials each are subject to annual inflation. I'm sure that some of the components have increased by as much as 25% over the last 10 yrs. There may not be an official 2.5% increase each year on the base price but the fact is most vehicles do increase the effective MSRP by that amount. That's just inflation. There is no way around it without generating losses.

If the components each increase the total has to increase as well or the vehicle runs a loss.

scottimusprime

The '09 Corolla interior does not impress, IMO. The hard plastic on the dash looks cheap, feels cheap and probably is cheap! Will it start to rattle and make noise as time goes on? Possibly. There seems to be less padded fabric on the doors in favor of more cheap, hard plastic. The HVAC controls seem very clunky and didn't turn smoothly (from what I remember).

My personal feeling is that Toyota's quest to be #1 and to make profits has gotten to their heads. Toyota's reputation for quality seems to be suffering. The Tundra didn't get off to a good start. The Camry seems about as cheap as the Corolla in terms of materials. What will it take for Toyota to really turn things around?

kdhspyder

I believe that you are comparing looks/feels and ignoring content/value.

There is no way you can get a Corolla with everything that's in it for what is essentially the price of a 1998 Corolla ( adjusted for inflation ) that had nothing in it. It's a good dream to wish for everything at a price of nothing but it's not realistic. As to your forecast that Toyota is doomed and about to crumble, keep dreaming. Every other vehicle maker on the market wants to do exactly what Toyota is doing except they can't do it as well.

kdhspyder

$17,500 for a car with the features you mentioned is not really all that good IMO considering there are lower-priced alternatives with more standard safety features, more comfort, proven reliability, way more amenities, and more power. It's really not relevant to me to compare today's Corolla with one from 1998. (Maybe that works for you in your sales pitches to uninformed buyers, though.) To me, what's relevant is what other cars can I buy today, at what price.

...excluding Hyundai.

backy

Why would I or other buyers want to exclude Hyundai when looking at alternatives to the Corolla?

Anyway, there are others, e.g. the base Impreza is about the same price as a lightly-optioned Corolla LE but offers widely-available ESC, a much nicer interior, more interior room, more power, high quality and reliability, exceptional crash safety (IIHS Top Pick), a lot more power, and the advantage of AWD. The only advantage the Corolla has is higher fuel economy. Another example is the Rabbit, again with widely-available ESC, a much nicer interior, more interior room, more power, high quality, good reliability, exceptional crash safety, and a lot more power (with less FE than the Corolla).

It's not just Hyundai that offers good alternatives to the Corolla.

thaip

Right after you have your car started, even putting it in drive, what is your rpm reading? my is not at ZERO, I think is between .2 to .4

I think you are right that when the car is going between 60 - 65 steady, then the rmp is between 2.5 - 2.6. When the car going steady between 65 - 70, then the rpm is between 2.6 to 2.8 and if I step on the gas pedal a little bit then the rpm is around 2.9 and 3.0

Is your car also built in Japan?

Thanks

kdhspyder

Why exclude Hyundai? Because as you and I both know they have by far the lowest pricing and the most features across the board - artifiicially perhaps ( but that's a subject for another forum ).

Examples, all Base Models ( as per Edmunds with roughly equal equipment )
2009 Corolla 4AT..$17100
2008 Civic 5AT.....$16500
2008 Maz3 4AT....$16700
2008 Sentra CVT..$16800
2008 Focus 4AT...$16100
2008 Cobalt 4AT...$16600
.
.
2008 Elantra 4AT...$15330 a view of events to come???

Essentially one can throw a blanket over the pricing of the base models. Beyond that it's regional preferences and individual negotiations.

But only the Corolla and Civic lead the others in fuel economy. All the others are 8-10% lower than the leading two.

backy

I don't recall seeing fuel economy in your list of the most important buying criteria earlier. I think it's important, but I will take an 8-10% hit (which is not that large for some of the cars you listed besides the Civic) for other benefits.

So tell me, when you are talking with a customer and ask them what else they are looking at, and they mention Hyundai, do you tell them, "That's not fair, because they are by far the lowest priced with the most features across the board!" I kinda doubt it.

Consider though what you get for those base prices. With the Civic and Mazda3 (and some others you didn't mention like Spectra, Rabbit, Impreza) you get a nicer place to spend time driving. With several of these you get superior handling. With most of them you get more power and/or more cogs in the transmission.

One thing though--the Focus' interior is even worse than the Corolla's. And the Cobalt's isn't any better than the Corolla's, and with an even tighter rear seat. So the Corolla does have advantages over some of its competition in the interior department.

kdhspyder

Well since the Hyundai / Mazda store is within a half mile I just ride them over there and let them make their own judgement on the spot vs the Elantra & Mazda 3. It all depends on the buyer and what's most important to each of them. For some like teachers on a very limited budget the Elantra is by far the best choice. For 4 time Corolla owners, which are numerous, the suggestion is not taken well.

A younger buyer may appreciate the Mazda 3 a lot more than the Corolla, but then the parents who are doing the buying ( and have owned one or two in the past ) may step in to make a Corolla decision. Many parents don't want their first-time-driving children even considering that the new vehicle is 'sporty' or 'fast'. Dull and reliable is good.

mackabee

Unless your noggin comes in contact with it during a crash.

Mack