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Comments
The engines can use a look over too, because the competition has superrior power
Absolutely is an issue of packaging efficiency. Older architecture needs to be gone soon!
Interior quality and materials is top notch though. I doubt it will ever get an indash nav screen. No demand in it's price range even though a loaded LaCrosse is getting there but the volume of $34K+ LaCrosses is probably pretty low.
The 300C DOD engine probably could do well if one takes it easy so the engine can run on 4 cylinders. However, that would mean running at 70 MPH or perhaps less.
Most magazine testing results are not good, although their long term test cars give better averages, when they are using the cars for typical driving instead of 0-60 and quarter mile testing.
The long term test of the 300 seem to be the 425 hp SRT version which gets about 15-16 MPG overall. Probably not horrible all things considered, but, like the M3 and M5 BMW's, this is not the sort of car very many should buy.
For the Lucerne, I would go with the V8 engine, and wait a year or two to get the best price, as in barely used, yet 40% off original price. Like the DTS, the Lucerne needs the V8 to be a luxury car, or at the least the 3.6 V6 in her. After all, we are talking beyond precision here. Buick can remain FWD as the DTS goes RWD. Perhaps Cadillac will someday be Cadillac/Buick dealerships, as Buick is a good entry Caddy. The SAAB may also be sold through Caddy dealerships, though Saturn may make a better import dealership. Saturn seems to be going Opel line.... but perhaps Opel is Cadilac as well, considering some V6 engines. No need to bring up Catera.
-Loren
-Loren
Eps 2 will have about the same interior space as the current LaCrosse except a bit more rear seat leg room and smaller on the outside.
Lucerne should be the RWD Zeta.
I do have one concern and that is I hear a light popping or snapping sound either coming from the center console or the driver seat and it almost sounds like an empty paper bag being squeeezed together and is quite annoying and I was wondering if any one else was hearing a similar sound from thier Lucerne. I have wedged a small towel between my console and right bucket seat and it appears to have cut the sound considerably.
And never mind the liter/hp ratio....
Why can manufacturers see how primitive they are compared to foreign cars?
Now that's a can of worms to make our engine discussions of 3800, 3.9, 3.6, 3.5, etc., look simple.
_Which 350_?
I had an Olds 350 in 77 that was tremendous with a quad 4 on top of it. Buick had a 350; Chev had a 350; Pontiac had a 350? Right Andre?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
A 4 speed is okay around town with a larger torquey engine. Unless you are racing or something. Excessive shifting is for the birds.
Saturn's Outlook SUV will come standard with a 6-speed engine FWIW.
Actually gas motors were developed at what, 1900 or so? The idea that the 3800 is 30 years old doesn't fly!
The motor has been updated, improved, strengthened. The oil pan is now a structural part of the lower motor. Balance shafts were added in ?1992?.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Incidently, I have a 1997 Riviera with a supercharged 3800. It provides plenty of useful power. What happened to the supercharger on the Lucerne?
My Riv's engine has leaked oil from EVERY possible oil seal, sometimes a second time after the first seal was replaced. I actually got my money's worth from an extended warranty replacing all those seals. A 1999 Park Avenue with the same engine and blower didn't have the problem. So I'm a little skeptical about the reliability of the engine.
· More than 90 percent of Lucerne’s March sales were retail deliveries.
· According to Power Information Network data, Lucerne had the second-fastest days-to-turn in the upper mid-size car segment (28), trailing the days-to-turn segment leaders (Toyota Avalon and Solara) by only four days.
· Lucerne outsold a number of its primary competitors in March, including the Ford 500, Nissan Maxima and Volkswagen Passat.
In base form, 250hp would do this car very well. It would be close to the 275, but then again torque is way more with the V8.
It would be nice to see the newer VVT V8 from the STS mounted for FWD use and put on the Lucerne, too.
The Base engine is the real problem though.
The LaCrosse 3.6, with 225 lb-ft of torque, is not that much different from the torque that the 3800 produces. The 3.6 does have more high speed performance, so even with 225 lb-ft, it could make some difference.
Just checked GM's 2007 guide and found that the G6 GTP does get the Saturn 3.6, not too surprising as the Aura is on the same platform. Buick's Lucerne will continue much the same for 2007.
Can't you say the same of the "new" Avalon. Have you been reading their discussions? And reading the hesitation discussions?
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.ef2150b/10919
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.ef0c570/0
Search for avalon in the "search forums" box on the left side of this page.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Note that Buick is somewhat worse than Lexus, the industry leader, but is much better than Toyota.
So I take it the LeSabre and Century are the two on the list, I could not find on that page. Should be good used car buys then, and very inexpensive. LaCrosse or Lucerne vs. Camry V6 models is another thing all together. I take it you would pick both over the Camry. May be more fair to wait a year and look at a Lucerne V8 or a top line LaCrosse used, then compare it to Toyota Camry or Avalon ( which currently is too close to Camry to be a good buy between those two ). I would wait one or two years to see more results from surveys of owners of both Toyota and Buick new cars to see how they compare. That said, both Buick and Toyota are going to be nearer the tops in reliability. Would not be overly concerned. Resale value is another issue. If resale is not high on the list, I would pick a Sonata V6, or buy the Lucerne a year later and save $7K to $10K off the list. As for Lexus, they seem overpriced to me.
It may also be interesting to see what Consumer Reports magazine data shows, and MSN Autos on the Net shows for reliability. Edmund's site has the historical data from JD Powers, which is also good to note. Sometimes all three render a different view of a particular car. I do like the MSN Auto showing the major items needing repairs and the cost involved. Sometimes the problems are minor in cost or time to repair. This is true for Buick or Toyota.
-Loren
If it's a tie and you're at a crossroads, go with the American automobile!!
1963 GS
1967
1993 (well i liked it anyway)
1995
and for performance the 1987 Grand National.
But the days of RWD are gone.... for another year or two?
The Lucerne has some pretty good lines to her. With the V8, it's a pretty good effort.
The car I learned to drive with was a LeSabre ( i think '62 ),
and it was pretty classy, with plenty of power. Ah, and RWD
In modern times, I kinda liked the '93 Riv, and Reatta was well styled. Actually, looks wise the most current LeSabre has some smooth lines to it. But these days I prefer a tighter handling car, with a bit more power.
A Regal, with RWD and at least 250HP, would be something!
Lucerne in FWD is not a bad ride I suppose, give enough ponies and torque of a V8. And I realize, quite a few people don't care, and the V6 will eke out a few more MPG. I am bit picky about HP to weight ratio.
-Loren
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/21/AR2006042100728.- html
It is a plush automobile. But it is not a motorized marshmallow in the manner of the big Buicks of old. Nor, for that matter, is it an effete car mimicking all things European but devoid of anything that defines its own soul.
That pretty well says it. Most of the critics are trying to make it compete with the exact other car that they themselves prefer; this one realizes it has its own personality.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
and I haven't heard anybody from Toyota trying to pass it off as an American brand
You obviously aren't in an area where Toyo is advertising like heck to change their image to a good neighbor and friendly American company down the road assembling wonderful cars. Cincinnati radio has ads running in drivetime for that very purpose.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Yes, it would be a good for money to end up in USA as its final destination. I assume they are thinking that as well in say England, where they no longer have the end money from say the Jaguar.
If this is to be a free economy, then people will have their choice of the best goods. Be it the Lucerne, or whatever US built car, it will have earn its way to the customers open wallet. If the price, power, ride, and whatever suits the buyer is found in these and other GM cars, people will buy them. May have to add resale, image, reliability, and design to that. The non-fleet sales numbers will do the talking. And this will take away from a foreign makes sales total. By choice, the buyer make the difference.
Your point is what about US vs. Japan or German?
Are you saying we do not own companies outside our borders?
-Loren
Enjoy!