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Buick Lucerne

Isn't the replacement for the Buick Le Sabre and Park Avenue supposed to be based on the Zeta platform? Edmunds says that the Lucerne will be FWD and will use Le Sabre's current platform, but several other sources say that it will be RWD and Zeta-based.

 

The same goes for the next generation Pontiac Bonneville. I have heard that it would only get a restyling, that it will be switched to RWD, and that the name would be dropped. Have any of those rumors been confirmed as true, or is it still too early to say at this point?

 

Personally I would favor rear wheel drive for both cars. The Bonneville could definitely use it to be more competitive in the segment. It's going to face stiff competition from the Chrysler 300 and Dodge Charger, so Rear Wheel Drive makes sense, particularly in the handling department...
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Comments

  • The last info that I had heard was a RWD replacement for both vehicles with a whole new build-up. I do believe that it will be the zeta platform. My cousin works for Visteon which works closely with GM on some of the new vehicle electronics and he said that both of these cars will be close to the Biuck Lacrosse in terms of increased build quality, ride and quietness. Supposedly there will be increased hp to compete directly with DMX. I hope that they don't screw up the Bonny replacement in terms of sportiness and overall excitement.
  • Very interesting. I'm glad to hear it. As of right now the DMX LX cars are my favs, to tell the truth. But if GM manages to develop a few appealing RWD cars sometime soon, than I'd be very interested in those too. If the quality of the interior materials are high enough, then I would I definitely add the Bonneville to my short list of cars I'd like to buy.

     

    Hopefully this thread will stay open and active so we can keep a watchful eye on any developments in the near future.
  • What is the DMX LX? I have not seen reference to it before.
  • theo2709theo2709 Posts: 476
    The Lucerne will be built on the G body along with the new DTS. Think of it as the slightly larger Aurora replacement. Buick gets a Zeta flagship car (Invicta) for 2007 or 2008. Bonneville is still up in the air, but the latest reports are that it will be replaced along with the Grand Prix with the Zeta G8. The coupe version will be the GTO.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    DMX is an error of DCX, which is the stock symbol for DaimlerChrysler.

     

    LX is the platform name for the 300/Magnum/Charger.

     

    ~alpha
  • Lazy me, I was foolish enough to repeat that typo. Sorry, I feel like an idiot for that one. And I can't seem to edit that post either...

     

    As for the news of it being on the same platform as the Caddy DTS, that sounds pretty good to me. RWD can definitely help them improve in the handling department, especially if the choose to add more power to the Bonnie. And from what I've seen (at least working at Ford) rear wheel drive is also a bit more likely to take a beating. Probably depends a lot on the manufacturer though, but Front wheel drive as a whole seems a bit fragile in comparison. That's just my opinion on the matter. (Not that I would never buy a FWD car.)
  • theo2709theo2709 Posts: 476
    G-body is FWD.
  • D'oh! I confused the DTS with the STS!

     

    The Lucerne still sounds like an appealing vehicle, but I'm a big fan of RWD myself so I'd be more interested in the G8 or Invicta. Of couse it does depend on the styling, and (more likely) the fit and finish. Hopefully I got it right this time around. Thanks for the information on the upcoming models. I appreciate it!
  • theo2709theo2709 Posts: 476
    Head on over to C&G to see the interior.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    The spy shots I saw of the lucerne were very promising. Same goes for the interior pic mentioned by Theo. I have read that it would have the 5.3 OHV V8 but I am wondering if they will really use the 4.6L northstar V8. I also want to know what will serve as the base engine. It better be the 3.6 with 250+hp.

     

    The car should be revealed in Chicago in February.
  • I am interested in more details of the Lucerne. Pls advise meaning of C&G (I am new to the lingo)and where I might view pics of this car. I am interested in details such as Heads Up Display etc. Thanks
  • ehaaseehaase Posts: 328
    Just do a google search of Buick Lucerne and you will see the pictures that theo2709 is referring to.

     

    I have read some rumors that GM may cancel plans for RWD Buicks, but today's Automotive News had an article on a RWD sedan, coupe, and possible convertible for Buick, so these rumors may be wrong.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    The RWD Buick is going to happen, but I wouldnt expect it before 2006. The Lucerne and the RWD large car will exist at the same time. The Lucerne will probably be aimed at traditional Lesabre and Park Ave owners while the RWD car will be aiming for the 300C.
  • GO to buick.com, the new large sedan (Lucerne) will be unveiled @ the Chicago show on Feb 9th (courtesy of buick.com)
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    I am looking forward to seeing the pics of this car.
  • jb7227jb7227 Posts: 86
    Cant wait to see the new Lucerne - Buick website has "countdown" until Feb 9th. Anyone have any idea of the dimensions - is it going to lose trunk/passenger room compared to the LeSabre? GM needs to go back to making their "large" cars large again - with 20+ cubic feet of trunk space and shoulder & hip room that's larger than a Camry or Accord!
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    I imagine dimensions will very very close to the Lesabre. The main differences will be in power, features and interior styling. Considering this car will probably go up to $36K+ it better have a lot of luxury features.
  • jb7227jb7227 Posts: 86
    You can see photos of new Lucerne at chicagoautoshow.com.
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    OK, there is a photo gallery over at the Detroit News web site:

     

    http://www.detnews.com/autosinsider

     

    Now whose brilliant idea was it to have the Lucerne's rear end look just like an Acura TSX? First the LaCrosse copies the old Taurus, now the Lucerne copies Acura... will the upcoming VElite convertible look like a Sebring?

     

    *sigh*
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    IMO, NOTHING about this vehicle looks like a TSX. The TSX has very thin taillights and much sharper edges to the decklid. (Please share what you smoke, as long as its not TOO illegal.)

     

    The taillights remind me more of the VW Toureg, an association which not many will make since the two cars are not at all competitors. I think this may just be the most attractive Buick to date- I hope the dynamics and appointments have been similarly improved. Very classy, IMO.

     

    And A V8 to boot. Very nice.

     

    Bonneville is being cancelled, FWIW, so maybe the name of the thread needs to be changed.

     

    ~alpha
  • I agree - there is some resemblance to Acura from the rear -so what? The rear-view may invoke Acura, but Acura has a reputation for high-quality, excellent engineering and near-luxury performance. And that's a bad thing?

     

    If you want to pick nits, you can find something on any car that looks very much like the same feature on some other car.

     

    This is the best looking Buick in decades, FWIT.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    will be key. If GM can do a nicely optioned CXL V8 around $33K, I think it would be a great car.

     

    To me, nicely optioned would mean: leather, moonroof, grippier wheel/tire pkg, Stabilitrak.

     

    ~alpha
  • theo2709theo2709 Posts: 476
    Bloody hell they still have the 3800 and it lost power!
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    image
  • Looking at them side-by-side, I see more dissimilarities - Lucerne has a lower trunk sill - which results in a lower lift-over, the Lucerne uses chrome on the trunk sill lip, Lucerne license plate placed in the rear fascia not on the trunk lid, Lucerne exhaust tips under the fascia not in "scoops" as on the TSX. The TSX rear-end has a much flatter shape, the Lucerne is more rounded in general.

     

    One could say they are similar, but hardly that the "Lucerne's rear end looks just like an Acura TSX" as you put it.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    The side by side posts reinforce my comments that the taillamps are much thinner on the TSX, which features harder edges to the rear end in general.

     

    I personally would never look at the rear of this car and think TSX.

     

    And seriously, the 3800 as standard is such a faux pas, but there are many who just dont care as long as the vehicle feels strong. A pity that GM wouldnt make the 3.6L the base engine, but at least the kick-[non-permissible content removed] Northstar is available on the mid-trim level, unlike the availability of the high feature engine on the LaCrosse/Allure.

     

    ~alpha
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    I agree about the availability of the V8 on two trim levels instead of one. I have a feeling that a large portion of the cars shipped will have the V8. I cant see the 3800 sticking around more than a year or so. At this point it will only be used in three cars. They should have made the new 3.5L or the 3.9L available as the base engine. Naturally the 4 speed auto is another issue.
  • The Lucerne headlights don't seem to match the trend started with the new multi-headlight form of LaCrosse. If Lucerne will be the mid-range Buick, they might think about standardizing the front look across the lineup and consider multi-headlight form for Lucerne in the following years. I have made a sketch to show what I mean.

     

    image

     

    The headlights would be more swept back, following the Velite design. This way they would look nice like the Sydney opera. Hope Tom Peters takes note.
  • Oooh, I like that. The lights look distinctive without the '96 Taurus look of the LaCrosse. They should have done them just like that.

     

    Overall I'm fairly impressed with this car. I will be interested to see how it's priced and positioned. Everything about it seems way upscale of the LeSabre, except the old standby 3.8 engine. I hope it doesn't get too pricey though, at least in base trim. Buick needs to remember that last year they sold over 130,000 LeSabres and Park Aves. If they don't offer an affordable trim of this thing, that will be tough to match, let alone exceed, no matter how good the car is.

     

    -Andrew L
  • I don't think the 3800 will matter a bit to the "typical" LeSabre buyer. They want quiet, smooth, dependable, and the 3800 has that written all over it. Your average Buick owner isn't into the latest technology, IMO. Other factors rank higher (again - quiet, smooth, reliable....).

     

    The Lucerne won't win any major converts who are more focsued about what's under hood...and I think that, at least in 2006, the majority will ship with the 3800. It will keep the cost down, avoiding sticker shock. Buick needs a winner right from the start that easily replaces the '00-03 LeSabre's current owners may be looking to trade.

     

    You can argue all day long about what engine should be in the Lucerne, but they have to be SOLD to be successful, and I just don't feel the averge 50/60-something is tinkering under the hood. I doubt he rarely opens it, and ride, handling, comfort will matter more than pushrod vs. whatever to 80-90% of potential Buick buyers, IMO.

     

    The Lucerne sure is a heck of a lot more interesting that the outdated Grand Marquis - the LeSabre's major competitor!
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    The problem is that its also competing with the new Avalon and the 300. The Northstar is OK but the base engine has to go. I'm sure it will within the next two years or so. I think the 3.5L that is debuting in the Impala would be the most logical replacement, although the 3.6 would be the best replacement.
  • 1. someone said the next bonneville is cancelled? could you please elaborate.

     

    2. Looked at an 04/05 bonneville with a v8 and loaded with options last week. Nice looking car but sticker was over 38k. Seems pretty steep to me and since the buick label usually adds a few bucks I'm wondering if the v8 lucerne will be a 40k sticker price? If so it better be an awesome car since comparison shoppers will have lots of traditionally better respected nameplates to choose from for that kind of cash.

     

    3. In this thread someone refers to the lucerne as the "mid" level Buick. Since it replaces the Park Avenue as well as the La sabre I would think that is also the hi end model? Am I correct or is there another flagship in the works for Buick?
  • "1. someone said the next bonneville is cancelled? could you please elaborate."

     

    Not much to elaborate on...the Bonneville is cancelled. Production will stop around 6/2005. Supposedly there will be a new RWD Pontiac at the end of the decade, but that may be more of a Grand Prix replacement than a Bonneville.

     

    "3. In this thread someone refers to the lucerne as the "mid" level Buick. Since it replaces the Park Avenue as well as the La sabre I would think that is also the hi end model? Am I correct or is there another flagship in the works for Buick?"

     

    There is expected to be a new RWD Buick in the next few years, which will probably be a large sedan but may be a convertible like the Velite concept. GM hasn't said much officially about this though, other than to admit they are looking at a RWD flagship for Buick.

     

    -Andrew L
  • Wow, hard to believe GM would let the bonneville die without a replacement. Basically they are ceding additional market share to their competitors at a time when sedans are making a huge comeback. Oh well, as I stated in my previous post the 38K bonneville was too much for too little IMO anyway. Too bad.
  • bryanbryan Northern VAPosts: 229
    I bought one of the loaded '04 V8 Bonny GXPs you make reference to that stickered over $38K. I purchased it in May 04 and got a great deal--$3k off sticker plus the $5K GM rebate in affect at that time, and GM had sent me a coupon good for the first two payments. In essence, I received 9K off sticker.

     

    I have almost 7k miles on it and other than a small sunroof rattle that was fixed on the first try, the car has been incredible. I'm now averaging right at 20 mpg combined city/highway driving. I got 23.5 mpg on a recent 2k mile trip from VA to FL. The car is a blast to drive.

     

    Like you, I thought $38K was a little steep. I imagine there will be some incentives as spring approaches which may make an '05 GXP more attractive to you. It sure worked for me.
  • sv7887sv7887 Posts: 351
    Hi All,

     

    I was a two time owner of a Buick Electra and Park Avenue from 1986-1995..Just had a look at the new Lucerne and Wow! I was impressed..It appears to be a nice looking car, better looking than the ES330.

     

    I wonder how they are going to price it however..Pricing the high end one at $38K is going to put it in dangerous competition. As a former Buick owner, I'd definitely give it a go, but I think the price will have to be competitive to get others to as well. But I believe the mid-range one will have the V-8 as an option.

     

    I haven't bought a GM car in a long time, so have the deals changed at all? What is a typical discount on this kind of car? I normally get 10-12% off my LS400/430 purchases. Is it reasonable to expect more from Buick?

     

    Thanks,

    SV
  • drwilscdrwilsc Posts: 140
    I certainly hope the mid-range trim level gets the V8 as an option. I believe Buick screwed up with the LaCrosse not offering the good engine (3.6 L) on the mid-range CXL trim as an option.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    I would expect the 3.6 to be available on other models in the Lacrosse in the future. Thats what they did with the Rendevous so I expect it to apply to the Lacrosse.

    I would definitely expect a loaded Lucerne to hit $38K. People are forgetting how expensive the PArk Ave Ultra is right now. A loaded Lucerne will replace the Park Ave Ultra.
  • Judging by the limited interest in this discussion despite this car just being introduced I think it is safe to say GM should do a reality check before pricing this vehicle.

    Point 1. The new avalon limited can be bought for around 36K. So pricing the top of the line lucerne over that (or even equal to it) is probably wishful thinking.

    Point 2. Nobody likes to pay near sticker price for a car right after introduction only to have them being discounted nearly 33% by years end (a'la GTO)

    Point 3. Launching incentives to cure a 130 day supply of a vehicle thats only been out for 140 days is embarrassing ( a'la lacrosse) So why not price the car lower and hold off on the incentives. You can always raise the price if they start selling like hotcakes.

    I want to like this car. I want to see the domestics make a comeback. For my money though, the domestics will have to provide more car for the cash until they prove they can make a car equal in quality to the Japanese. I bought an 04 Sierra pickup because I thought it was the best fit for my needs at the right price. And I would love to put my gm card earnings to use on a new Lucerne in the next purchase. But I looked at a new avalon today and I think GM is still trying to build a competitor for the car toyota made 6 years ago.
  • I like the Lucerne but I too am worried about what GM will pull with pricing. For one, the car will have a leather interior STANDARD. That seems stupid to me. Not even the Avalon has that. Not everyone wants it (I hate leather), and it drives up the price. They need to have the base sticker around $26-27K if this thing is going to be taken seriously. I'm a little concerned that it will be more like $29-30K, which will be a tough sell.

    -Andrew L
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    I think the base price will be about $28K so there wont be too much overlap with the Lacrosse. They will have to keep the base price low to keep all those lesabre owners who want a large car but arent interested in expensive options. I cant see them going higher than $28K base. Fully loaded I'm thinking about $38K.
  • robw64robw64 Posts: 76
    Anyone heard any buzz about when these vehicles will be on dealer lots? All I've been able to find is "Fall 2005", which is a bit vague considering how close to "Fall 2005" we are. There are 2006 models already showing up elsewhere.

    I've driven an '01 Chrysler Concorde for 3 years and have loved the car for all of it's 38k miles .... however, I hate the lack of customer focus from that company and will be looking for an alternate domestic brand in a couple of years.

    I rented a LaCrosse recently when travelling and really enjoyed the vehicle (it was great in the snow, by the way). I'm very excited to see the new full-size Lucerne. Maybe this will be the one?
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    I would expect to see the Lucerne in the 3rd quarter of this year. No earlier than September. I'm sure they want it out as early as possible to replace the aging Lesabre.
  • The Buick Lucerne is an ordinary car on the outside with nothing to get excited about. Inside the car seems very plain and boring. The materials seem average, the design lacks any flavor, a nav system and a premium audio system probably won't even be on the options list. This car doesn't even come close to class leaders like the Chrysler 300, Toyota Avalon and the Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego.

    I hope they improve the build quality from previous Buicks. Poor build quality seems to plague all GM vehicles. This leads to low resale value. Acceleration and braking will hopefully be improved, otherwise this vehicle is another average car from GM.
  • brood1213brood1213 Posts: 27
    Who was right behind Lexus in the JD Power Quality Reports?

    Buick (with the old Century)

    What leads to low resale value is the rebates not quality if I buy a new Century for $17,000. Why would I buy a used 2005 for 15,000 or roughly $10,000 of sticker price.

    The Lucerne is going to come equipped with a new radio system with auxiliary input jacks. Navigation would be optional.

    Ford 500 a class leader with a lame V6. Once the intial buzz wears off the looks of the poor man's Bentley they would be like a PT Cruiser. As far as acceleration I think they would be more than capable with the Northstar V8 in the Lucerne.
  • Yes, Ford's V6 is pretty lame for a full size car. I amdit that. However wait a year or so and they are bound to release a stronger engine. As for being a class leader, it is, if you ignore engine power. It has a huge trunk, the biggest in any available sedan. It has lots of legroom, and the interior is very nice. It offers a high seating positon and lots of headroom. It gives a smooth highway ride. All this at a pretty low price. So yes, the Five Hundred is a class leader. I doubt if the new Lucerne will have anything to distinguish itself from other large sedans. The Avalon has luxury, the Five Hundred has lots of room and value, the 300 has style and power. What does Buick have that the competition doesn't? Well, you tell me.

    As for the Lucerne being equipped with a nav system, where did you learn that? I have been trying to find out whether it would come with it or not, and I still don't know.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    You obviously have no clue what you are talking about. The Lucerne will have DVD navigation, magneride, remote start, cooled seats and some type of new heated wiper fluid that melts ice and bugs off the windshield. Magneride (or something comparable) isnt available on anything in this class. I do not support the use of the 3800 but the northstar will certainly keep up with an Avlon and leave any 500 in the dust. The 500 isnt going to get another engine until next summer at the earliest. Until then it cannot keep up with a V8 Lucerne. I also want to know how you know so much about the interior. The pics I saw looked fine and I think the interior on this car will be better than the 300 or 500. On top of all that this car is better looking than any of the cars you mentioned. The 500 is dull, the 300 is not my style and the avalon looks horrible. The lucerne will also have plenty of room for passengers and luggage. Look at the lesabre if you dont believe it.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    GM hasnt had build quality issues in quite some time. Rarely do you read about a modern GM vehicle (unless it's edmunds reviewing) with poor assembly. Also, the Lucerne will have a high end 245watt HArman/Kardon sound system with 8 or 9 speakers. Have you read anything about this car?
  • prigglypriggly Posts: 642
    The care looked absolutely great from the outside with nice, clean, refreshing lines. It was cordoned off so I could not sit in it but from the outside the interior looked nice. A big improvement from the present LeSabre. The car is to be equipped with a V-8 engine which in my book is a BIG selling point. It also is to have a high-end Harmon-Kardon sound system which to me is also a huge selling point. It is high time Buick got serious about high-end audio in its cars. The sound system in the LaCrosse is a piece of junk. I don't know if the new Lucerne is to have H.I.D. Xenon lights or a navigation system but it ought to have them on what appears to be aspiring to be a near-luxury automobile.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    It will have NAv but no HIDS. HM wont put HIDS on any non cadillacs except for the Vette.
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