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Buick Lucerne



  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    The problem is that its also competing with the new Avalon and the 300. The Northstar is OK but the base engine has to go. I'm sure it will within the next two years or so. I think the 3.5L that is debuting in the Impala would be the most logical replacement, although the 3.6 would be the best replacement.
  • 1. someone said the next bonneville is cancelled? could you please elaborate.


    2. Looked at an 04/05 bonneville with a v8 and loaded with options last week. Nice looking car but sticker was over 38k. Seems pretty steep to me and since the buick label usually adds a few bucks I'm wondering if the v8 lucerne will be a 40k sticker price? If so it better be an awesome car since comparison shoppers will have lots of traditionally better respected nameplates to choose from for that kind of cash.


    3. In this thread someone refers to the lucerne as the "mid" level Buick. Since it replaces the Park Avenue as well as the La sabre I would think that is also the hi end model? Am I correct or is there another flagship in the works for Buick?
  • "1. someone said the next bonneville is cancelled? could you please elaborate."


    Not much to elaborate on...the Bonneville is cancelled. Production will stop around 6/2005. Supposedly there will be a new RWD Pontiac at the end of the decade, but that may be more of a Grand Prix replacement than a Bonneville.


    "3. In this thread someone refers to the lucerne as the "mid" level Buick. Since it replaces the Park Avenue as well as the La sabre I would think that is also the hi end model? Am I correct or is there another flagship in the works for Buick?"


    There is expected to be a new RWD Buick in the next few years, which will probably be a large sedan but may be a convertible like the Velite concept. GM hasn't said much officially about this though, other than to admit they are looking at a RWD flagship for Buick.


    -Andrew L
  • Wow, hard to believe GM would let the bonneville die without a replacement. Basically they are ceding additional market share to their competitors at a time when sedans are making a huge comeback. Oh well, as I stated in my previous post the 38K bonneville was too much for too little IMO anyway. Too bad.
  • bryanbryan Northern VAPosts: 217
    I bought one of the loaded '04 V8 Bonny GXPs you make reference to that stickered over $38K. I purchased it in May 04 and got a great deal--$3k off sticker plus the $5K GM rebate in affect at that time, and GM had sent me a coupon good for the first two payments. In essence, I received 9K off sticker.


    I have almost 7k miles on it and other than a small sunroof rattle that was fixed on the first try, the car has been incredible. I'm now averaging right at 20 mpg combined city/highway driving. I got 23.5 mpg on a recent 2k mile trip from VA to FL. The car is a blast to drive.


    Like you, I thought $38K was a little steep. I imagine there will be some incentives as spring approaches which may make an '05 GXP more attractive to you. It sure worked for me.
  • sv7887sv7887 Posts: 351
    Hi All,


    I was a two time owner of a Buick Electra and Park Avenue from 1986-1995..Just had a look at the new Lucerne and Wow! I was impressed..It appears to be a nice looking car, better looking than the ES330.


    I wonder how they are going to price it however..Pricing the high end one at $38K is going to put it in dangerous competition. As a former Buick owner, I'd definitely give it a go, but I think the price will have to be competitive to get others to as well. But I believe the mid-range one will have the V-8 as an option.


    I haven't bought a GM car in a long time, so have the deals changed at all? What is a typical discount on this kind of car? I normally get 10-12% off my LS400/430 purchases. Is it reasonable to expect more from Buick?



  • drwilscdrwilsc Posts: 140
    I certainly hope the mid-range trim level gets the V8 as an option. I believe Buick screwed up with the LaCrosse not offering the good engine (3.6 L) on the mid-range CXL trim as an option.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    I would expect the 3.6 to be available on other models in the Lacrosse in the future. Thats what they did with the Rendevous so I expect it to apply to the Lacrosse.

    I would definitely expect a loaded Lucerne to hit $38K. People are forgetting how expensive the PArk Ave Ultra is right now. A loaded Lucerne will replace the Park Ave Ultra.
  • Judging by the limited interest in this discussion despite this car just being introduced I think it is safe to say GM should do a reality check before pricing this vehicle.

    Point 1. The new avalon limited can be bought for around 36K. So pricing the top of the line lucerne over that (or even equal to it) is probably wishful thinking.

    Point 2. Nobody likes to pay near sticker price for a car right after introduction only to have them being discounted nearly 33% by years end (a'la GTO)

    Point 3. Launching incentives to cure a 130 day supply of a vehicle thats only been out for 140 days is embarrassing ( a'la lacrosse) So why not price the car lower and hold off on the incentives. You can always raise the price if they start selling like hotcakes.

    I want to like this car. I want to see the domestics make a comeback. For my money though, the domestics will have to provide more car for the cash until they prove they can make a car equal in quality to the Japanese. I bought an 04 Sierra pickup because I thought it was the best fit for my needs at the right price. And I would love to put my gm card earnings to use on a new Lucerne in the next purchase. But I looked at a new avalon today and I think GM is still trying to build a competitor for the car toyota made 6 years ago.
  • I like the Lucerne but I too am worried about what GM will pull with pricing. For one, the car will have a leather interior STANDARD. That seems stupid to me. Not even the Avalon has that. Not everyone wants it (I hate leather), and it drives up the price. They need to have the base sticker around $26-27K if this thing is going to be taken seriously. I'm a little concerned that it will be more like $29-30K, which will be a tough sell.

    -Andrew L
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    I think the base price will be about $28K so there wont be too much overlap with the Lacrosse. They will have to keep the base price low to keep all those lesabre owners who want a large car but arent interested in expensive options. I cant see them going higher than $28K base. Fully loaded I'm thinking about $38K.
  • robw64robw64 Posts: 76
    Anyone heard any buzz about when these vehicles will be on dealer lots? All I've been able to find is "Fall 2005", which is a bit vague considering how close to "Fall 2005" we are. There are 2006 models already showing up elsewhere.

    I've driven an '01 Chrysler Concorde for 3 years and have loved the car for all of it's 38k miles .... however, I hate the lack of customer focus from that company and will be looking for an alternate domestic brand in a couple of years.

    I rented a LaCrosse recently when travelling and really enjoyed the vehicle (it was great in the snow, by the way). I'm very excited to see the new full-size Lucerne. Maybe this will be the one?
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    I would expect to see the Lucerne in the 3rd quarter of this year. No earlier than September. I'm sure they want it out as early as possible to replace the aging Lesabre.
  • The Buick Lucerne is an ordinary car on the outside with nothing to get excited about. Inside the car seems very plain and boring. The materials seem average, the design lacks any flavor, a nav system and a premium audio system probably won't even be on the options list. This car doesn't even come close to class leaders like the Chrysler 300, Toyota Avalon and the Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego.

    I hope they improve the build quality from previous Buicks. Poor build quality seems to plague all GM vehicles. This leads to low resale value. Acceleration and braking will hopefully be improved, otherwise this vehicle is another average car from GM.
  • brood1213brood1213 Posts: 27
    Who was right behind Lexus in the JD Power Quality Reports?

    Buick (with the old Century)

    What leads to low resale value is the rebates not quality if I buy a new Century for $17,000. Why would I buy a used 2005 for 15,000 or roughly $10,000 of sticker price.

    The Lucerne is going to come equipped with a new radio system with auxiliary input jacks. Navigation would be optional.

    Ford 500 a class leader with a lame V6. Once the intial buzz wears off the looks of the poor man's Bentley they would be like a PT Cruiser. As far as acceleration I think they would be more than capable with the Northstar V8 in the Lucerne.
  • Yes, Ford's V6 is pretty lame for a full size car. I amdit that. However wait a year or so and they are bound to release a stronger engine. As for being a class leader, it is, if you ignore engine power. It has a huge trunk, the biggest in any available sedan. It has lots of legroom, and the interior is very nice. It offers a high seating positon and lots of headroom. It gives a smooth highway ride. All this at a pretty low price. So yes, the Five Hundred is a class leader. I doubt if the new Lucerne will have anything to distinguish itself from other large sedans. The Avalon has luxury, the Five Hundred has lots of room and value, the 300 has style and power. What does Buick have that the competition doesn't? Well, you tell me.

    As for the Lucerne being equipped with a nav system, where did you learn that? I have been trying to find out whether it would come with it or not, and I still don't know.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    You obviously have no clue what you are talking about. The Lucerne will have DVD navigation, magneride, remote start, cooled seats and some type of new heated wiper fluid that melts ice and bugs off the windshield. Magneride (or something comparable) isnt available on anything in this class. I do not support the use of the 3800 but the northstar will certainly keep up with an Avlon and leave any 500 in the dust. The 500 isnt going to get another engine until next summer at the earliest. Until then it cannot keep up with a V8 Lucerne. I also want to know how you know so much about the interior. The pics I saw looked fine and I think the interior on this car will be better than the 300 or 500. On top of all that this car is better looking than any of the cars you mentioned. The 500 is dull, the 300 is not my style and the avalon looks horrible. The lucerne will also have plenty of room for passengers and luggage. Look at the lesabre if you dont believe it.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    GM hasnt had build quality issues in quite some time. Rarely do you read about a modern GM vehicle (unless it's edmunds reviewing) with poor assembly. Also, the Lucerne will have a high end 245watt HArman/Kardon sound system with 8 or 9 speakers. Have you read anything about this car?
  • prigglypriggly Posts: 642
    The care looked absolutely great from the outside with nice, clean, refreshing lines. It was cordoned off so I could not sit in it but from the outside the interior looked nice. A big improvement from the present LeSabre. The car is to be equipped with a V-8 engine which in my book is a BIG selling point. It also is to have a high-end Harmon-Kardon sound system which to me is also a huge selling point. It is high time Buick got serious about high-end audio in its cars. The sound system in the LaCrosse is a piece of junk. I don't know if the new Lucerne is to have H.I.D. Xenon lights or a navigation system but it ought to have them on what appears to be aspiring to be a near-luxury automobile.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    It will have NAv but no HIDS. HM wont put HIDS on any non cadillacs except for the Vette.
  • chris65amgchris65amg Posts: 372
    I think that Buick will shoot and miss with the Lucerne. It looks good, but what good is good in a field of very capable sedans? The specs look pretty good. and it looks like it will have plenty of room, but the segment is becoming crowded fast.

    Chrysler's 300 looks nice, and it's a nice car too. It's cheap RWD, and that is a big plus. Also, there's a lot of Mercedes under the skin. Also, a big ol grille.... The warranty is pretty good

    Toyota redid the Avalon, and it looks like hot stuff. It's big and powerful, and it looks better than the previous. Also, it's a Toyota. The interior looks almost Lexus-esque.

    Ford has the 500. I really think that the 500 was an effort, but size doesn't matter if the engine can't pick it up. I think that the 500 is really spacious, but I can't stand the engine. The 6 speed looks nice on paper, but it is pretty sloppy. Also, the car looks boring (subjectively) :sick:

    Hyundai is aiming for the throat with the Azera. I think it'll be the dark horse. 260 hp and as big as an S Class, they say. Also, tons of standard junk. Good warranty. :blush:

    Buick? Who's Buick? If they're going to come this late to the party, than they better bring their best. The Lucerne looks like a stpogap until they can get the RWD Buick sedan. The Lucerne is nice, but how nice can nice be when all of the competition is great? :confuse:

    Using the same word a lot,
    Chris :shades:
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I don't get why all the car magazines are comparing the LaCrosse with the Avalon- isn't that LeSebre/Lucerne territory? Even Buick says the LaCrosse is a "premium midsize car" not a "full-size" like the Avalon and 500.
  • prigglypriggly Posts: 642
    This is exactly why GM is not doing well. If they are going to re-do the LeSabre with the Lucerne, then they are most foolish if they do not put their best foot forward and this means including features like bi-Xenon headlamps. The market demands nothing less and other comparably priced cars from other makers have them, e.g. the Acura TL and the Toyota Avalon Limited. Otherwise, this will simply be another "attempt" at a great car but without full commitment and with failed execution.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    The Lucerne could really use some luxury features and a longer warranty...
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    are you saying people make buying decisons strictly based on the availability of HIDs? That is ridiculous. Except for Acuras, HIDs are not standard on most lucxury cars, even those costing thousands more than the Lucerne. YOu can by and E class or A6 without HIDS at prices near $50K. What about all the features you can get on the Lucerne that arent available on the TL? The Avalon is very well equipped and there is little that can compare with it for the prices. The Avalon offers better value than any Japanese or German sedan in this price range. The Lucerne has remote start, magneride, 18" wheels and heated washer fluid, all features not found on the much smaller TL. In fact magneride isnt found on anything else in this price range, you have to go over 50K to find cars with active suspensions. On top of that the Avalon is not attractive, at least not to anyone close to my age range. The interior is overdone and the exterior needs work. The lucerne looks better from every possible angle if you ask me. My only problems with the lucerne are the 3800 and the 4 speed auto.

    How many cars in this segment offer Bixenon headlights anyway? There arent too many.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    what luxury features is the lucerne lacking? I dont consider HIDs a luxury features, but aside from that what else was left out?
  • chris65amgchris65amg Posts: 372
    I don't think that the Lucerne will fail because of lack of HIDs. I do, however, think that the Lucerne will not be quite a match for upper end Avalons, probably only because of that old 4-speed they are using. Also, the 3800 is alos showing age spots. I think that the Lucerne's design is a little overwrought, but it's nice looking. Won't beat the Avalon, but it's better than the Five Hundred IMO.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    How about a 5-Speed Automatic, navigation system, a non-pushrod engine (the 3800, as reliable and durable as it is, is starting to age) and howabout loaner cars when you take your car in for service?
  • prigglypriggly Posts: 642
    are you saying people make buying decisons strictly based on the availability of HIDs?

    No, that's not what I said. I said that the Lucerne must include "features like bi-Xenon headlamps" if it wishes to out-compete the competition and excel in the marketplace rather than being a merely average car which does not get people excited and thereby enhance GM chances of remaining a viable automotive manufacturer.

    Incidentally, bi-Xenon lamps are simply the next step in the performance and safety progression of automotive lighting and are, contrary to your assertion, widely found on many upscale automobiles today, not simply luxury automobiles, including the Avalon Limited and Touring models, numerous models of Acura, Volvo, SAAB, Nissan (Maxima), Lincoln, Cadillac, VW, Audi, Lexus, Infiniti, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Jaguar, Land Rover and even the Kia Amanti (in Canada). Bi-Xenons are to halogen what halogen was to tungsten. Do you think Lucerne is well-equipped because it has halogen instead of tungsten bulbs? In the not-too-distant future, all automobiles will have bi-Xenon lamps. GM would do well to lead the pack instead of always following the pack and see that the Lucerne is not disadvantaged competitively by not having them, at least as an option.

    Another feature which will make its way into all cars in time is some form of on-board navigation system using GPS technology. This simply represents the next step up from the compass.

    As far as the four-speed transmission is concerned, the quality of the GM four-speed automatic transmission is extremely high and the device is most reliable, a fact that is less well demonstrated by some of the five-speed transmissions presently on the market. The 3800 series engine although dated and not cutting edge technology is still serviceable. At least the company is making available the excellent Northstar V-8 and this does represent a marketing edge compared to most of the competition. As far as 18" wheels is concerned, this is a feature whose availability is definitely driven by faddish market trends, resulting in a rougher ride on tires which are more high cost than higher profile counterparts to replace. Not exactly a necessary feature unless you like to race around corners but seen by GM as lending competitive edge in the marketplace.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    I will repeat again that the Lucerne has NAv. How can you criticize a car if you havent even read up on it in detail? Who said the Lucerne wont have DVD Nav? Read the press release if you dont believe me.

    18" wheels are becoming available on more and more models and it more than a fadish trend. Customers want bigger and better looking wheels on their vehicles and this is not something Japanese manufacterers seem to grasp. I notice that no one commented on the other features I mentioned that are not found on the Avalon. The Lucerne does in fact offer some technology ot found on other cars. HIDS would be a nice addition but they are not standard on most cars in this range or even on cars in the luxury bracket. Bi- Xenon lamps are even more rare. There are very few non luxury models that have bi-xenon lamps.

    Most people will chose the lucerne based on styling, features and price. Engine layout and tranny gears are secondary. If the Lucerne is priced right I think it will easilt outsell the Avalon. Its better looking inside and out and offer a V8. I know the hp is lower but people like to hear a car has a V8. It definitely means something.
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