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Comments
I placed my order for the CX-7 the end of December, this will be my 6th Mazda in 5+ yrs. BIG, BIG Mazda fan here! I've never had a problem with any that I've owned. Had 2-626's both V-6's. LOVED them! Traded both up for Millinia's one a P version, the other the S which is the one that I will be giving up for the CX, and my wife has a Tribute, and says it's the best car she's ever owned.
You will not regret owning one!!
The Sante Fe is a very nice SUV. I, like you, have been looking at it as well as a strong competitor. I think the Mazda is really a driver's SUV, like a X5 or a Porche Cayenne. I think it is a cheaper Acura RDX which has the same exact specs almost, but the Mazda is much cheaper. But back to the numbers.
The Mazda will be faster and more powerful in all likelihood.
The Hyundai will probably cost less with the same features as that is Hyundai's claim to fame. The Mazda comes loaded with features though so I don't know. You can actually compare the two. Hyundai has a website which gives you the standard features on each trim that you can access fromthe Hyundai USA homepage. I think the Mazda will have better interior plastics but that Hyundai interior definitely looks really nice.
In the end for me, it comes down to style and performance. The Sante Fe will probably undercut the Mazda by 1-2K. The performance, style, and feel of the Mazda is what would do it for me. Mazda's are sporty and perform well. Anybody who owns a Mazda3 or Mazda6 or Miata or RX-8 will tell you how much fun they have. I remember seeing a tagline for Mazda "the relentlous pursuit of fun" and I thought it fit perfectly. I don't know if it was official or someone made it up, but it fit perfectly. The Santa Fe, will not be fun.
Now, my dilemma....I have moved away from minivan since kids are now grown ups...
Need something smaller, yet comfortable and fun to drive.
CX-7 or M5...? I know they are different beasts.....
Iam a 98% city driver, I drive about 8K per year with 3 to 4 long trips p year.
What would be your recommendation between these two cars....
I think it's called middle age syndrome!!
thank you again
CX-7 is developed off of the Mazda6 Platform.
Ford took the Mazda6 platform and created the Fusion platform then built the Edge an Aviator on that.
The CX-7 is not related to the Edge or Aviator except for as described above. There is a CX-9 Mazda that looks like it will be related to the Ford though.
Mazda is a company that totally understands how a car/truck should have BALANCE. The are not the fastest cars on the road but if you test drive a Mazda, you get the impression that this is a car where every aspect was thought about.
Remember that Mazda is the most successful Japanese name in racing. Mazda powered vehicles dominate US amature racing in the SCCA. Mazda is the only Japanese company to win the 24 hours of LeMons.
Mazda lost its way in the 90s, trying to be a better Toyota or a better Honda. Now it seems the have turned around. Mazdas are very focused vehciles now and may not appeal to everyone.
I have a 2002 Mazda Protege5 one of the first in the US and at 80k it still drives and looks like a new car. I have not had any non regular maintence problems.
Mark.
It will be unfair to compare 23K to 80K like someone said...
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123627644
Now that will be a "sporty" SUV.
Your comments always containing good info and it's welcome.
Just received the latest CR Magazine (Consumer Report) and Subaru, Mazda and Mitsubishi were all in 5th place with regards to least problems per hundread cars.
Toyota, Acura, Honda and Infinity topping the list.
Volvo XC90
Ford FreeStyle
Lexus GS AWD
Lexus IS AWD
Acura RL
Acura RDX
All of the above will automatically allocate the majority of engine torque to the rear during periods of high stearing loads, lateral G-forces on the front wheels.
Other AWD systems seem to use wheelspin (the horse has left the barn) as an indication of the need diminish (dethrottle) or allocate more engine torque elsewhere.
Direct Quote:
"A world’s first, the SH-AWD system combines front-rear torque distribution control with independently regulated torque distribution to the left and right rear wheels to freely distribute the optimum amount of torque to all four wheels in accordance with driving conditions."
Here is a good video:
http://world.honda.com/HDTV/news/2004-4040401a/
Very cool technology!
Later,
B.
Just because Porsche calls their stability and traction control system PSM doesn't mean its functionality is any different from Toyota's VSC/Trac.
The CX-7 is based on the Ford global CD3 platform, which is designed by Mazda, not Ford. It is the platform for the Mazda6. Ford borrowed it for the Fusion/Milan/Zepher and Edge. So, by legal name, it belongs to Ford, because they own Mazda, but, Mazda designed it.
• What's Mazda reliability like generally? Any potential problems I don't know about (never owned a Mazda)?
I'm a Mazda dealer, and I can tell you with absolute honesty how Mazda's reliability has been. The Mazda3 has been fantastic, 4 cylinder Mazda6 has been great as well, I actually own one with 12K on it, and it drives like the day I bought it. MX-5 Miata has had immaculate reliability. The CX-7 will share the engine from the Mazdaspeed6 which has to date been trouble free except for a possibly "heat soak" issue, which Mazda is currently working on. But, since the CX-7 will be getting a de-tuned version of the engine, I really don't see it as being a problem.
If you refer to the latest issue of consumer reports, you will see Mazda a smidge behind Subaru in terms of reliability.
I thought high stearing loads was a thing of the past...or are people still using ox drawn carts?
On the SUBJECT of AWD, CX-7 uses the AWD system from the MAZDASPEED6.
The brochure for this car describes this system as:
ITS ALL-WHEEL DRIVE IS SMART AND SOPHISTICATED. The MAZDASPEED6’s computer-controlled
all-wheel drive system is an Active Torque Split design that automatically balances front/rear torque from
100:0 to 50:50 using sensors to monitor steering angle, yaw rate, lateral G-force and engine data.
www.mazdausa.com
Mark
"The CX-7 rides on an all-new platform instead of sharing the Ford/Mazda CD3 platform used by the similar Ford Edge/Lincoln MKX crossovers as well as the Mazda6. It uses the front suspension of the Mazda MPV minivan, with the rear suspension from the Mazda5. Many of the all wheel drive components come from the Mazdaspeed 6."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_CX-7
The CX-7 will be sold outside the US accordingly, the CD3 platform would not be appropiate. The only non-northamerican product using this platform is the Mazda6. Ford is ultimately planing to have about 10 different models come off of this platform.
The Fusion/Milan/Zephyr are the first three and Edge/MKX make it 5.
Globally, Ford is relying on the C1 Platform which spawned the Mazda3/New Focus/Volvo S40. This platform was stretched to give us the new Volvo S80 and even adapted to reardrive for the New Mustang.
Mark.
My recollection is that the New Mustang was built on the T-Bird and Lincoln LS paltform, which i think came way before the Mazda 3 /etc platform. My memory could be fuzzy.
The upcoming Cobra will maintain the live axle. It seems pretty clear that if the Mustang was built on a DEW platform, it would have been easy to use an IRS. Prior Cobras did have IRS.
Mark.
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123628147
That's a bit of an oversimplification
When I evaluate a traction system, the question I ask include:
* is the front axle managed?
* is the rear axle managed?
* is the system engineered for full-time use?
* is the system proactive (vs. reactive)?
* can the system send all the power to either axle?
For the CX7, let's answer those:
YES. Traction control does that.
YES. Again, thanks to traction control.
NO. It's for slippery surfaces and part-time only.
NO. It's reactive. Haldex reacts quickly, but it still reacts.
NO. It cannot send 100% of power to the rear axle.
So it meets 2/5 criteria. But that ain't bad.
Volvo's is the same, 2/5. I'm not sure about Lexus, but I don't think they manage to meet all 5 criteria (I don't think it can send 100% of power to the rear axle). Acura can't meet the 5th one, but it is proactive so they get 4/5. Even Audi Quattro is limited to 33/67 or 67/33, so it cannot do #5 and only gets 4/5.
Subaru's VDC AWD, Infiniti, and BMW manage all 5 criteria.
AWD systems are not all created equal.
-juice
This is not a rebadged Ford Edge.
Mark.
Why do people continue to refer all awd systems as the same, or infer that the sh-awd is just a fancy name. Honda is not making up that it is the worlds first, they are not calling it the worlds first for the name but the technolgy of how they manage there AWD system.
They are not only splitting torque between the front set of wheels and the rear set but each individual wheel, so for example when they say worlds first it is that they are using 2 electromagnetic clutches to split the torque between the rear wheels. They are managing each wheel independently with a variety of inputs yaw control etc...etc...etc.
And this goes for other system out there like the one in the Skyline GTR to Audi's Quattro system, they are not the same.
Every brand with a different AWD system is doing something different using different technolgy, from spliting F/B in different proportions to using different inputs to control wheel spin.....etc...etc...etc...
Just kills me when people generalize an entire system, each system presents a positive and negative balance, from one system being better at off road, to another system being lighter, to another system being better on road, to a system being more fuel effcient.
Anyway I am off my ramble sorry :-) I am very excited to start seeing some reviews on the CX-7 and the effectiveness of its AWD system.
B.
But I have seen this exact system "logically" and functionally on other vehicles, overdriving the rear driveline via differing F/R ring/pinion ratios, and two viscous couplings, one for each side at the rear.
When turning a corner with a normal open rear diff'l the outside wheel "freewheels" while the engine torque goes primarily to the inside wheel. Obviously this creates a "moment', "thrust" toward the outside of the turn.
The viscous clutches "sense the disparate turn rate of rear wheels and "tighten up", partially lock the normally open rear diff'l forcing more of the engine torque to the outside wheel.
SH-AWD offers a TRULY significant improvement over the above described previous implementation but in the end the functionality is the same.
The MazdaSpeed6's AWD system is also primarily FWD-based and not truly full-time. There is no center differential.
I don't see how your argument refutes anything I wrote in my post. I never even mentioned the Ford Edge.
-juice
The previous generation Passat 4Motion actually used the Torsen AWD from Audi Quattro.
Meanwhile, the Audi TT Quattro actually used VW's 4Motion AWD system (made by Haldex).
Confusing? Yes, and it just goes to show that the name it purely marketing, and doesn't mean very much.
So then, what does the CX7 use? Rotary Blade Coupling? Clutch-type AWD? Torsen? Haldex? Viscous Coupling? Behind the fancy name is a fundamental type of AWD system. I know the Speed6 defaults to FWD at certain speeds so my guess is it's still a Haldex.
Perhaps the "active torque split" just means they use throttle inputs to adjust the torque split on the Haldex proactively. But it's still not full-time.
-juice
"available active torque-split all wheel drive system-the computer controlled active torque split all wheel drive system continuously monitors wheel speed, ABS and DSC operation as well as engine data, distributing the optimal amount of torque between front and rear wheels from 100:0 to 50:50. Advanced technology constantly maximizing traction for all driving conditions."
* is the front axle managed? Yes, DSC
* is the rear axle managed? Yes, DSC
* is the system engineered for full-time use? No.
* is the system proactive (vs. reactive)? Yes (claimed).
* can the system send all the power to either axle? No.
According to that information it can't send more than 50% of the power to the rear axle, so it has that limitation. The fact that the split range includes 100:0 means the rear axle is not engaged full-time so it's a No for #3 as well.
3/5 is pretty solid, though.
-juice
Pros? You make more power for any given displacement. At altitude, if there is excess efficiency you won't lose any power as the air gets thinner, while normally aspirated engines will be wheezing and losing power. Plus if you're not using the boost, it doesn't really cost you much in terms of fuel efficiency, unlike a supercharger would.
Cons? Cost, and a need for high octane (premium is usually required). In general the engine will produce more heat overall and is higher stressed, but they compensate for that with intercoolers and beefier engine internals.
Mazda has a lot of experience with turbos, so I would not be too worried. Drive it, and if that is the SUV you like best, go for it.
-juice
I'm a dealer in the New England. I checked today on the status of my fist allocation, and one was just issued a VIN. It's at least 8 weeks AFTER the vehicle rolls of the production line until it reaches me. We are hoping for late May/early June. But, predicting this is not an exact science. I'm sure other dealer's can attest to that
Now, a better AWD system, even a FWD-biased one, can shift power when the throttle is applied, before power it sent to the front axle suddenly, so it can prevent torque steer.
But many can't. Go drive a CR-V 5 speed. It doesn't even have that much torque, but it's geared short, so you feel a tug in the steering wheel in 1st and 2nd gears. Same with the new RAV4 V6, at least that's what people are reporting.
If the system is proactive, though, and has a TPS (throttle position sensor), it can potentially send power to the rear axle before you'd feel any torque steer.
-juice
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_T- - ype1&c=Article&cid=1142549412696&call_pageid=970599119419
On the RAV4, I did'nt know that V6's were here yet. The Toyota dealer near me does not have any right not. Although, they do have the new Camry. What an improvement I must say.
-juice
I can hardly wait! This thing will be getting rave reviews....
does he work for? I've seen the CX-7 at the Mazda technical center in Irvine Ca in person and it looks like a winner!! We have one on order from our local dealer. Our only concern is the turbo four.
http://blogs.edmunds.com/.ee900c0
"The suspension tuning is very much like that of a BMW 3 Series"
"The Nissan Murano is probably the closest thing to the CX-7 in price, design and appearance. Other than that, there's really only the Cayenne and the Infiniti FX - both better than many so called sport sedans and justifiably much more expensive than the new Mazda."
"But the CX-7 isn't only about value. It's not like a Corolla or something made by Sanyo. No, the CX-7 is willing to sell you its body as well. The designers and engineers placed priority on the driver, both in terms of space and performance, above all other considerations."
"The turbocharged engine might seem an odd choice at first but it's what gives the CX-7 a different personality from its V6-powered competitors. Mazda's new so called DISI four is smooth, dead-silent at a cruise, yet it has a voice under acceleration and offers gentle swells of torque that allow the CX-7 to cruise effortlessly at speeds well above our national limit."
-juice