Toyota Tacoma vs Nissan Frontier

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Comments

  • toykicktoykick Member Posts: 104
    I know most of you guys think this stuff is bogus since your not aware of it but these sources are known by the people who run these companies. Some what like consumer reports but with more sources of information besides complaints or surveys.
  • driver56driver56 Member Posts: 408
    My new (98) Sienna had more than a few "bugs"(problems) in the first 3 years, but all were minor. It certainly makes a difference as to what the (i.e. 2.5 problems in the first 3 years) are. That's my first thought when I first view a study like this. Is it power train, is it brake pads, is it a rattle? In fact, I was supposed to have an engine sludge problem according to other Sienna owners. But I replace the engine oil every 3500 miles, some don't.
    I like these studies. But what I like even more is reading into them.
  • toykicktoykick Member Posts: 104
    anything covered by warranty, it could be interior defects, drivetrain problems etc.

    This is a source, your opinion vs. the few million on that chart is just a # but something you should consider to think about and admire. Your van might of had some issues but how many nissan owners haven't had some?

    its a helpful source of information when buying a car, just like the many sites online.. You have your doubts and i have mine. I'll rather look at the facts not opinions :P .
  • driver56driver56 Member Posts: 408
    These studies are undoubtedly helpful and I do believe in them, but only to a point. They are very general and there are just too many variables. We just don't know what the facts are made up of. Defects?, problems?, minor?, major?, what?!? What vehicle are we discussing under which company, under which year, under which model? Who owns it, and where do they drive it, and how do they maintain it?
    Those are facts that neither one of us will ever get our hands on. So we believe, and we have our opinions (hopefully educated), and we pick and choose.
    Again, of the 7 vehicles I've owned, not one of them has behaved the way the studies,reports, etc., have suggested.
    BTW, try telling a Mercedes-Benz owner that their car is well below industry standards. I'd like to be there.
  • critter1critter1 Member Posts: 104
    Toy cost at least 2k & most times 3k for comparable truck.
    I know I've done my Homework. Hedging my bet I'm going with 06 Frontier,very very soon. Will post deal when I buy
    vs the best Toy offer for 06 Tacoma.

    Fish'in the SURF!!! ;)
  • toykicktoykick Member Posts: 104
    IF you would like to compare vehicles JD power also has initial quality stats for sedans, trucks, compact cars etc...

    I do agree with you these studies sometimes dont show real life long term reliability & quality but if you compare and look into other categorys theres a trend. Check consumer reports and tell me which vehicles are praised and which are lemons. Take a second look at the list then tell me why this doesnt compare to your past experiences and not to others.

    compare a 3 year old Mercedes-benz residual value to a Comparable sedan from BMW, you'll be surprised. look into conumer reports also. And theres already a few websites where benz owners go to complain about their issues ( Troublebenz.com )

    Mercs like nissans are know for electrical problems.
  • driver56driver56 Member Posts: 408
    My original point was that you should read between the lines and not accept everything at face value. I can't tell you how many years I've been reading and comparing automobile reports/studies, everything from Car & Driver to Consumer Reports to Lemon-Aid, and lots in-between. I do see some consistency, mainly that Japanese vehicles are more reliable generally than European or American.
    If a vehicle shows up as a lemon consistently from various sources I'll take note. If it shoes up as average or better, I'll interpret that as positive. Sometimes reports just don't jive with each other. For example: Lemon-Aid has for years praised the Frontier, Consumer Reports has hated it (until recently). The way one wrote about it was almost the complete opposite of the other. I could not make rhyme or reason of it no matter how I looked at it.
    BTW, I haven't been impressed with a Mercedes for many years. I'll take a Infiniti M-35 or a Lexus any day.
    On another note, I have no knowledge or experience regarding Nissan vehicles having electrical problems. My immediate family owns three and all are trouble-free. I do know of Volkswagen Beetle electrical problems, but that is another story.
  • thatsmycallthatsmycall Member Posts: 54
    Four wheel drive 4 banger- like my Frontier and my Hardbody and my Datsun. Put 128K on my 98 Frontier, great truck, no problems. Changed the front breaks and bearings at 120, had cracked exh.manifold at 110K- easy to work on. Better than 20mpg. Pulls 3500 lbs just fine, dirt bikes etc.

    over at toyota reviews, users are getting better than 24mpg with their four wheel drive trucks! Nissan really missed the boat not offering a 4cyl 4x4- I would alreay have one if it was in the line up.
  • driver56driver56 Member Posts: 408
    I've wondered that same thing. A 4 cylinder 4x4 would suffice for a lot of folks. Mind you, with what seems like a horsepower war going on these days, maybe the manufacturers feel that people want more then enough power under the hood ( even with the higher fuel prices). And the newly designed trucks are substantially heavier now.
    Toyota doesn't make a 4 cyl. 4x4 Tacoma any longer do they? As far as I'm concerned, they have gone the same route as Nissan. I'm wondering also if we'll be seeing diesel engines in the smaller trucks any time soon.
  • ustazzafustazzaf Member Posts: 311
    Actually you can get a regular or access cab stick shift 4 banger from Toyota in 4X4. I drove one while looking for my 4 door. Was not impressed, but I was trading a V8 Tundra, so I was used to power. As for diesels, I would guess within 2 years we will see them in both Toys, but the diesel prices may nix that idea.
  • midnightsunmidnightsun Member Posts: 92
    Uhhh, sorry to disinflate you, but I did in fact put the clutch in all the way to the floor. That was ONE of the things I tried, and the Tacoma's transfer case just did not want to shift between 4Hi and 4Lo, no matter what.

    The Frontier and the Tacoma dials work the same way. This isn't a matter of driver confusion, but vehicular defect. Perhaps only a defect in that one vehicle (so said the salesman who was with me), but a defect in the all-important demo vehicle. Very bad impression.
  • midnightsunmidnightsun Member Posts: 92
    65 mph, LOL.

    I knew long ago about the speed restrictions in shifting transfer cases. From reading the owner's manuals, not from making the mistake.

    The Tacoma shifted fine between 2Hi and 4Hi.

    It was the change between 4Hi and 4Lo it couldn't handle, and that was all done at a dead stop. Transmission in Neutral, clutch fully depressed, dial pushed in before turning it to 4Lo.

    I hope it was just a defective one. But I didn't feel like gambling.
  • ustazzafustazzaf Member Posts: 311
    I'm not suprised that the salesman didn't know how to operate the system either. I haven't seen a salesman who knew much about anything they were selling. Most people know what they want before they get to the lot, so all the salesman needs to know is how to ask "what will it take for you to take this home with you today" and "let me run it by my manager".
  • driver56driver56 Member Posts: 408
    Thanks, I didn't see that model listed on Toyota.ca. I personally would not be interested in one.
    I would say that the diesels would make more sense in the full-size category. Sure like the torque though!
  • driver56driver56 Member Posts: 408
    A lot of car sales people are similar to realtors. They know little of what they are selling. I showed one how to pop the hood! You might say they are like frosting on a cake.
    I would give midnight sun the benifit though. All vehicles have "bugs", Toyota is not exempt.
  • asaasa Member Posts: 359
    I agree. Resale matters only if an owner is in the the habit of trading in and if ya have a good truck, why trade it? Plus, the logic of paying $3,000 more for a vehicle that "retains its value" against one that is $3,000 less makes little sense.

    Trade-in value is of no issue to me, as we keep our vehicles for 200,000 Miles and a dozen years or more. Resale value changes very little from 120,000 Miles and beyond! :)
  • driver56driver56 Member Posts: 408
    I believe a good gauge is to buy what you really want as new, maintain it well, drive it for approx. 10 years, sell it privately for whatever you can get for it, and then buy new again. That's what I'm doing, and I'm nearly due again. Come late 06 - early 07 I'll be shopping.
    Re-sale value is of relatively little importance to me - I'll sell quickly for a reasonable amount and put that towards my next one. My true investments are in real estate and stocks. I also believe in buying a vehicle that is less in demand but of good quality (more room to dicker), and with cash (I'll arrange my own financing).
  • ustazzafustazzaf Member Posts: 311
    I agree. Resale matters only if an owner is in the the habit of trading in and if ya have a good truck, why trade it? Plus, the logic of paying $3,000 more for a vehicle that "retains its value" against one that is $3,000 less makes little sense.

    Trade-in value is of no issue to me, as we keep our vehicles for 200,000 Miles and a dozen years or more. Resale value changes very little from 120,000 Miles and beyond!


    I am the type of person to trade after 3-4 years, so early trade value is important to me (At 60K little things start breaking no matter what you drive and I like to be able to call 1800 Toyota and say bring me a vehicle and call when mine is fixed). I feel I did real well with my 02 Toyota when I traded. As for 10 years down the road, I am looking for a truck for my son. I am looking at trucks in about the 96 vintage, and from what I have seen, even at that age the Toys are still well above the competition in price. I figure that if I spend 3 grand more (or less than Honda) and it is still worth close to 3K more 10 years from now, I have driven a reliable vehicle and didn't lose my butt.
  • midnightsunmidnightsun Member Posts: 92
    No, no, no, no, no! ;)

    The first question they ask is, "What color do you want?"

    The second is, "'How much for the monthly payment?"

    Any others?

    Sadly, a lot of people do not know what they want when they visit the dealerships, and the salesmen are ready to exploit this. My husband just helped a coworker go through the car-researching and buying process (she is afraid of doing things by herself). After doing the research and test-driving different cars, not allowing herself to buy on a first test drive, she suddenly gave in to her original impulse...bought based on COLOR and trim.

    I used to wonder why salesmen would automatically ask me, "What color?" as the first question. Now I know why. There really are people who buy based on that above all else. :cry:
  • midnightsunmidnightsun Member Posts: 92
    I believe a good gauge is to buy what you really want as new, maintain it well,

    Right, and if you buy what you really want in the first place, you are more likely to maintain it well!

    BTW, I used to own two Toyota trucks (not at the same time). The first one I wrecked at only 3 years, but the second one I kept 13 years, very happy with it. Both trucks had defects (which were fixed under warranty). But I have yet to buy ANY new vehicle that did not come with defects.

    It's normal to expect perfection when you pay so much for a brand-new vehicle, but apparently we aren't going to get it, overall. Look at all the recalls that have occurred over the past few years. Some of them pretty horrible, too--dangerous stuff.
  • driver56driver56 Member Posts: 408
    I'll research all the possibilities for years before I make a decision on what vehicle to buy. I cruise the internet, read hard copy, talk to absolute strangers on the street if I can when I see them driving a particular vehicle, visit various lots, test drive, test drive, test drive, until I finally make a decision on what to purchase. I enjoy the whole process and am very patient. I keep a mental tab of what I experience (to the best of my ability), then utilize that info to narrow the choices shortly before purchase time. It's worked well in the past, and it certainly reduces the chance of perhaps driving a lemon off of the lot. Car ownership is expensive and I like to feel relatively secure that I have made a good choice, a suitable choice.
  • 2005lekc2005lekc Member Posts: 145
    Although color is not the only factor I con-sider when I buy a vehicle it is one of the
    most important ones. If I don't like the color I don't like the vehicle.

    Vehicle color always brings to mind the MGA coupe my dad bought when I was in college. It
    was a pea green and it ruined the looks of a really neat car.

    OkieScot
  • driver56driver56 Member Posts: 408
    I must be more practical, cause colour means the least to me. I do have my preferences, silver being at or near the top of the list, but there isn't a colour that I could not live with (I'm thinking at this moment of all the current Frontier colour choices). Besides, pink is no longer popular.
    BTW, I liked the pea green.
    Cheers!
  • critter1critter1 Member Posts: 104
    :D Bought 06 Nissan Fronty SE K/C 4X4 past Saturday 4/1/06.
    SE/auto/trans,posi rear,trailer equiped,all power window/locks, Toneu cover (Soft). @$21,500.00 + tax/tags.
    Garenteed!! Toy couldn't or wouldn't touch this price for their truck so equiped. The V6 is torquey for sure, can't dog to much yet,less then 250 miles on it. Will post later to tell my experinces with this new one.

    Critter Fish'n the Surf!!! ;)
  • 2005lekc2005lekc Member Posts: 145
    That would explain your like for pea green.
    Too army looking for me.

    OkieScot
  • driver56driver56 Member Posts: 408
    Way to go Critter! Looks like I'll be dealing for an 07, can hardly wait. Enjoy, and keep us posted.
  • ustazzafustazzaf Member Posts: 311
    The people that have been around awhile will remember the last person to claim that. Of course that was after he put a big trade in as down payment. $21K vehicle turned into a 25K real fast. Nissan is lowering the price to 75% of the Toyota price, but yet Toyota closed in even closer to GM for the sales crown in the last reporting period. Either the prices are closer than reported, or Toyotas are worth that much more.
  • critter1critter1 Member Posts: 104
    Well ustazzaf! Believe what you want,But! there's no good reason for me to lie! The final price did include a $1500.00 Rebate which are gone at present time. I will say I hope fuel econmy goes up, filled it 1st time and it said I was getting 11.7 miles. Of course the engine is still real tight,so I'm sure it will get better. Also in this scenario the Dealer was in a MidAtlantic challenge from ;) Nissan along with other dealers to move vehicles. I had another Ace in my hand because of the dealer screwup. It's a True April Fool's Story (The Day I bought the Fronty) will post it sometime later. It's a gooder'.
  • critter1critter1 Member Posts: 104
    Thanks Driver56, it runs sweet,big step up from my 94XE 4X4
    4 banger. I haven't had a truck with good power to w/ratio
    since my 69 chevy with 327 300hp. If you buy the Fronty you will notice the power right off. It hums nice! But for anybody get what you like it's apples and oranges really.
    Will chime in from time to time to report on truck and comment.

    Critter Fish'in the Surf ;)
  • driver56driver56 Member Posts: 408
    Critter: Looks like you're truly enjoying your new wheels.
    Yea, I've already spent a fair bit of time in the new Fronty and am very impressed. As far as I'm concerned, it is the athlete of the bunch and it just wants to go!
    It looks like you might have to control your right foot a tad though. I filled my tester to the brim, drove it approx. 50 miles, filled it to the brim again, and figured it was getting 24 m.p.g. (Imperial gallon) driving city/highway mix. Most of the time though, I was caressing the pedal. I figure with an American gallon you should perhaps be seeing 18-19 m.p.g. mixed.
    Enjoy!
  • badnessbadness Member Posts: 242
    your Numbers are wrong,at 65mpg on a long trip,say around 80mi's you can get 25mpg's if you don't race it.
  • driver56driver56 Member Posts: 408
    I don't follow you. I figured 24 m.p.g. mixed driving, stop and start, city, country roads, and highway. That's 24 m.p.g on a Imperial Gallon and driving at moderate speed. I thought that was fairly respectable for a 4400 lb. vehicle(4x4 King). I imagine one could achieve perhaps 4-5 miles more on a gallon if driving all highway at moderate speed.
    I'm planning on testing an 06 Tacoma 4x4 (test drove the 05 in 05) sometime this month. I preferred the Fronty last time, so we'll see what transpires.
  • bluejaysbluejays Member Posts: 9
    Hi All-

    There are plenty of people who wish to have a smaller yet upscale pickup truck...a concept that Toyota doesn't yet seem to grasp. They need to add a heated seat / leather option along with premium audio ASAP or they will lose marketshare.

    ~ Blue Jays ~
  • ustazzafustazzaf Member Posts: 311
    Ya, every day I get in my Toyota (getting closer to number 1 every day) and sit there crying about not having heated seats and leather. What the heck are heated seats going to do for me when it is 110 degrees outside and I need to get a 6000 pound boat out of the water? The three of you that want to go 4X4ing around broke back mountain with your leather seats can buy the Honda with it's pretty leather seats.
  • driver56driver56 Member Posts: 408
    I feel that leather seats are an expensive, unnecessary option (one option that is certainly not worth the $2000 or so to have)and that has no real advantage.
    And I had heated seats in my Volvo - made little difference to me.
    Really, what I would like, would be able to choose unbundled options.
  • mrjjgittesmrjjgittes Member Posts: 156
    I agree. The tacoma was at the top of my next car list, but I want side airbags and they are difficult to get on a tacoma 4 dr 4x4 in SoCal. The few trucks that have them are completely decked out and list at $32k. Too much for me for a toyota pickup. Maybe toyota will make them standard in 2007. Honda (and even nissan)seems to have its act together on side airbags, toyota seems like they are a bit stingy with them.
  • driver56driver56 Member Posts: 408
    I haven't read or heard a thing about the 07's, but I would like to see Toyota add side bags to their trucks right across the board. Even though the Tacoma is quite crash-worthy, the side air bags offer extra assurance.
    When the 07's arrive I'll certainly be looking closely again at both trucks.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Frontier offers side curtain airbags as optional and offers leather as optional.
    The customer can choose to buy them if they want them, if you do not want them you are not forced to buy them.
  • midnightsunmidnightsun Member Posts: 92
    Really, what I would like, would be able to choose unbundled options.

    Amen to that!

    When I was first shopping for a new truck, the Toyotas had the tow package bundled with a stereo upgrade, to the tune of about $4800. C'mon, the tow package *might* be worth $800 of that. The upgraded stereo isn't even worth a quarter of the remaining $4000.

    It's a ripoff, and a stupid ripoff. At least bundle the packages so that things that go together are forced together. Tow package + not very good stereo upgrade = one weird option bundle.

    The really funny part was that the bundle included "50 state emissions" as one of the options. This is FREE on other vehicles!
  • ustazzafustazzaf Member Posts: 311
    When I was first shopping for a new truck, the Toyotas had the tow package bundled with a stereo upgrade, to the tune of about $4800. C'mon, the tow package *might* be worth $800 of that. The upgraded stereo isn't even worth a quarter of the remaining $4000.

    It's a ripoff, and a stupid ripoff. At least bundle the packages so that things that go together are forced together. Tow package + not very good stereo upgrade = one weird option bundle.

    The really funny part was that the bundle included "50 state emissions" as one of the options. This is FREE on other vehicles!


    When I first came to this forum, I came for advice. Unfortunately it has turned into a comedy site sometimes. No one believes that you are going to pay 4K for a hitch and a stereo, weather it is a Toyota or a Mercedes (well maybe a Mercedes). When I went looking, I could get the basic SR5 4X4 for 26ish, the TRD Off Road for $28K, and the TRD Sport for about 30K. There was not a package that included just the stereo and the hitch. If you want to pretend that there is, then hopefully people will take it with a grain of salt.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    When your post is all in Italics and Bold Print it is more difficult to read than Plain Text.
  • sugarman1sugarman1 Member Posts: 92
    Aint no 4x4 v6 Nissan going to get 25mpg's no matter how much you baby the gas pedal son. You either dont know how to add and subtract or your dreaming or your blowing alot of hot air or all the above.ALL THE ABOVE is the right answer. That Nismo is 400lbs. heavier than the Taco and that cannot relate to it getting 5mpgs better than the Yota. :confuse:
  • midnightsunmidnightsun Member Posts: 92
    Ustazzaf, if you want to believe that just because YOUR regional Toyotas did not list such a bundle then it did not exist, that is fine. However, such a forced bundle did exist on Toyota's official website, the printouts of which were being handed out at local dealerships. The one I went to gave me such a printout AND I checked it against Toyota's website; they matched. It may have been a special screw job for the Rocky Mountain region, but it was no lie, as you are accusing me of.

    Toyota is no saint, any more than the other manufacturers are. They're going to try to force customers who can't wait for a special order to buy what's on the dealer's lots. In this case, it was a ludicrous bundle, probably based on the likelihood that many buyers in this region want the tow package. At the time (January '05), the trucks were new and scarce, and no doubt quite a few customers did pay for that ridiculously overpriced bundle, just to get a new truck right away. I was not one of them, though that's not why I didn't buy the truck.

    The information I posted about the forced bundling is fact, not gratuitous bashing such as your comment about leather seats, Ridgelines, and Brokeback Mountain.
  • ustazzafustazzaf Member Posts: 311
    Ya, you are right about the stereo and tow package being bundled togeather for 4K. Of course the TRD Off Road Package is also included. That has the tow hooks, 110 outled, side curtain air bags, seat air bags, additional skid plate, larger tires, badging, rear locker, heavy duty battery and alternator, stronger shocks/struts and other stuff I can't remember. That is just a little more than a stereo and hitch. Maybe you don't want all that stuff just to get a hitch, and for about $300 you can go without that stuff and buy the hitch and wiring adapter aftermarket. The forced bundling may infact be a little shady, but you get a whole lot more than just athe stereo and hitch for the cost. You would be hard pressed to get half that stuff added to any vehicle aftermarket for that cost. I WAS out of line with the Brokeback line. My bad.
  • ustazzafustazzaf Member Posts: 311
    I went back and saw that the site actually said that the package included the TRD Sport Package or the Off Road Package, depending on if you get the short or long bed. I don't have the long bed or Sport Package, but I know both have more than enough to cover the price if you want what is offered. Again, as I said before, the packages may offer stuff you don't really need, but you do get your money's worth (sale numbers don't lie). I can honestly say that the only extra option that I have not used is the air bags (thankfully). I really think that the 110 outlet would have been more useful in the cab as the engine has to be running for it to work, but I have used it. I had a converter before this purchase, so, although I would not have paid extra for this option, it is something that I really appreciate. The other major options are of course the tow package and the tow hooks. During the summer months, I seldom go a week without pulling something out of the mud or sand. The final thing offered with the TRD package is the compass and temp gauge. My sig other's van had that and I really appreciated it. The temp is really handy when travelling the mountains. Ice can jump up and mess up your day real quick. And guys sure the heck aren't gonna ask for directions.
  • woodshop28woodshop28 Member Posts: 74
    I have a 2005 Frontier KC SE 4x4 manual. If I am easy on it, which I normally am, I get about 21 MPG. That is a mix of about 50/50 hwy/city on regular gasoline.
    In the winter, it is slightly less, as with any other vehicle I have owned.
    I don't know how I could get 25 MPG.

    Also note, 1 Imperial gallon = 1.20095042 US gallon, so my 21 MPG would equal about 25.2 Miles per Imperial Gallon, if I understand correctly.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    What is the meaning of "My Bad!"?

    Naughty? Inferior? Disobedient? :confuse:
  • midnightsunmidnightsun Member Posts: 92
    "I went back and saw that the site actually said that the package included the TRD Sport Package or the Off Road Package"

    I don't know what is on their site now, but I remember that the $4800 for the tow package and stereo upgrade (and "50 state emissions") was in addition to the price for the TRD Off Road configuration. Could my memory be faulty, yes. I wish I had kept the printout with the numbers on it.

    When I asked the dealer about the tow+stereo bundle, he shrugged and said, "That's the only way you can get the factory tow package in this region." I still think it was a regional screw job, but maybe not.
  • midnightsunmidnightsun Member Posts: 92
    If you get 21 mpg on 50/50 city and highway combined, that is very good. I am getting roughly the EPA estimates on my '05 NISMO KC 4x4 6-spd: 18.5 to 19 mpg on mixed driving, 21 mpg pure highway driving, 17 mpg city driving.

    Staying between 2000 and 2250 rpms for cruising along gets me the best mileage.

    I use 87 octane gas, which is considered "midgrade" here due to altitude (85 is supposedly "regular").

    Winter mpg has always been lowered on every vehicle I've owned. That is normal.
  • ustazzafustazzaf Member Posts: 311
    "I went back and saw that the site actually said that the package included the TRD Sport Package or the Off Road Package"

    I don't know what is on their site now, but I remember that the $4800 for the tow package and stereo upgrade (and "50 state emissions") was in addition to the price for the TRD Off Road configuration. Could my memory be faulty, yes. I wish I had kept the printout with the numbers on it.

    When I asked the dealer about the tow+stereo bundle, he shrugged and said, "That's the only way you can get the factory tow package in this region." I still think it was a regional screw job, but maybe not


    Hey, I am with you. I love my Toyotas, but I had to question the way they packaged stuff. But, I have to say that I have bought 2 new Toys and one used, and by God they knew what they were doing when they put the package together. It's kinda like air conditioning. I am sure that people asked why do you need that when you have 4 windows to open, but it sure has caught on. P/S and P/B and automatic are the same. I took my drivers test in a 68 ford F100 with none of them, but I sure do enjoy it now (well, I still can't do without the clutch). There is nothing on the truck that I have not used or would want to do without now that I have it. Toyota researches what sells in each area and adapts. That is why they will overcome GM to be the number 1 in the world real soon. There is not a day that I don't miss my 02 Tundra, but there is not a single one of the other previous 40+ vehicles that I miss. I traded the Tundra for a Tacoma because I needed more leg room for my kids, and that is what I got. I can sit in the back comfortably, which was less comfortable in the Tundra with the access cab. Wanted to keep the short wheel base.
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