Saturn Aura

62vetteefp

Unsafe elsewhere? I doubt it. We just have some very specific tests that take specific designs/remedies to pass. One is the side impact. We like to require crashing a huge truck into the sides of our compacts. I really doubt Europe requires this since they do not have many large SUVS prowling the roads. Here there are added reinforcements in the rockers (which takes huge amounts of retooling to revise a current vehicle) and all kinds of doodads to "catch" the doors and strengthen the sides. Not saying that is bad but not as much need over there. But heck, I am not sure, I only quoted someone who knows the facts.

yipyipyipee

Here's a web site that has a pretty good explanation of the differences between IIHS and Euro NCAP crash testing regimens:

http://www.crashtest.com/explanations/fia/index.htm

From what I've gathered, test methods aren't too dissimilar, however, its the contextual interpretation of results that seems to be the main issue (e.g. chest compression injuries). Also, some tests are optional which, if conducted, could make or break a vehicle's overall safety rating.

I've also learned there are inter-agency working groups developing methodologies and standards to harmonize test, interpretation of results and ratings. However, there seems to be some foot (and perhaps knuckle) dragging on the part of NHTSA. Some of these working groups have completed proposals since the late 90's!

YipYipYipee

nrborod

I'm betting that will happen. Any other bets out there?

m1miata

Could happen. Just drop the XE and sell the XR for around $21,995.

Current discounts are around $1,500, I think. Problem with the XR sitting on the lot as was at is that were no base XR models. All of them had loads of additional equipment. Would not be too bad a deal at base of $24K less the $1,500. Prices will have to lower as the New Malibu hits the market place.
Loren

phaetondriver

I am not sure if you are saying the XR should be selling at a price closer to that of the Malibu or not. I was ready to buy a Malibu LT(z) but decided to try the Aura XR first. These cars are built on the same platform so I figure they would be close in size, weight and overall performance (handling and acceleration). Well I am here to tell you that there is no comparison. The Aura is in a different league when it comes to comfort, quietness, and performance. If you are making a decision on a purchase solely on price/size, buy the Malibu LT 3.5. IF you want a new tech, performance sedan that compares with Lexus/Infinity/BMW at a fraction of the price, you want the Aura XR. I really think the Aura XR is worth more than a Malibu LTZ.
I would like you to read my road test posted at Saturn Aura New Owner Reports http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f11c540/12

I am not affiliated with Saturn or any car company.

shipo

"IF you want a new tech, performance sedan that compares with Lexus/Infinity/BMW at a fraction of the price, you want the Aura XR."

Ummm, I'm not exactly sure that the context of your comment is, however, as much as I've liked the Opels that I've rented in Germany, and as much as I like the Aura, a BMW (and to a lesser degree Infiniti) competitor it ain't. Said another way, the XR isn't even a match for my old 1999 328i in terms of ride, handling, smoothness and features, much less a new one.

Please understand, I'm not dissing the Aura, especially the XR, but it simply isn't even remotely in the same league as any currently available BMW.

Best Regards,
Shipo

phaetondriver

I wont disagree with you that the 328i is a better handling car than the XR, but it is a lot smaller and lighter than the XR. I have driven the Lexux ES 300 and 330 which are supposed to be great rides. I feel (in the seat of my pants) that the Aura with STABILITY CONTROL and integrated ABS makes it a better handling and performing car.
Dollar for Dollar, I think the XR is a fantastic buy for someone that wants a good touring car. The twin-cam 24 Valve V-6 that pounds out 251 lbs/ft of torque and 252 HP I think it's a better performer that the Opel it is based on. Not sure, but it should be.
I prefer the nose of the Opel and wish that was a component GM had left alone.

TT-FN

rwisem

The BMW may be a questionable comparison, but I think the Aura definitely drives better and looks better than the ES330. I even think it compares favorably to every junior exec's favorite enty-level luxury car, the Acura TL. There are some deficiencies, of course, but look at the difference in price. In all the big design and powertrain specs, the XR gives nothing away.

7,500 miles and smiles so far

shipo

"I have driven the Lexux ES 300 and 330 which are supposed to be great rides. I feel (in the seat of my pants) that the Aura with STABILITY CONTROL and integrated ABS makes it a better handling and performing car."

Agreed. I'd take the Aura over an ES any day, any time.

"The twin-cam 24 Valve V-6 that pounds out 251 lbs/ft of torque and 252 HP I think it's a better performer that the Opel it is based on. Not sure, but it should be."

Well..., yeah, my butt dyno tells me that the Aura is faster than a similar Opel I drove last year, however, the ride and the handling of the Aura seems to be set to a softer level of tune. The good news here is that the Aura is done WAY better than old kitty litter treatment that Cadillac did to an Opel a few years back.

Best Regards,
Shipo

62vetteefp

The ES's are not handling vehicles. They are soft riding, rolling vehicles. They do however have great ride characteristics with low impact harshness.

I have not driven the XR but I imagine is has better handling characterics but more impact harshness.

shipo

"The ES's are not handling vehicles. They are soft riding, rolling vehicles. They do however have great ride characteristics with low impact harshness.

I have not driven the XR but I imagine is has better handling characterics but more impact harshness."

Hmmm, well, I guess all things are relative. I'm quite partial to BMWs with the optional sport suspension, and to me at least, the Aura XR is too soft. That said, my wife really likes the almost everything about XR, the lack of a manual transmission being the one significant fly in the ointment.

Best Regards,
Shipo

m1miata

Oh heavens no! Not the current Malibu. I was saying the New Malibu, which is like the Aura with a different interior and outside chrome and such, is going to come with the 3.6 V6 and thus will take a lot of sales away from the Aura. I take it the New Malibu with the four banger engine will be around $18K - $19K at the most. Won't the 3.6 V6 be around $21K to $22K range? The Impala, in the base model is around $21K or less. I have seen sales where you find prices around $19K and under. The Aura is going to have to compete with the Chevy for sales. The engine and transmission is so much better in the XR. Why not make it the standard? I guess you could see the four cylinder go into the Aura some day? The four banger engine, with the six speeds for say $20K , in the Aura ?
Loren

phaetondriver

I hope your ideas go right past GM. If they put the 2Cam VVT engine in the Malibu, a six speed in the LT/XE's, they will only be competing with themselves and not Nissan and Toyota. The Aura is supposed to take market share away from them and maybe a bit out of Honda/Acura. Having the same car with several names is one big reason GM and FORD are having the problems they have now.
Keep Aura as European as possible. If they add anything maybe a Turbo 4 to the bottom of the line might help.
They could put the Aura on a diet as it is about 3-4 hundred pounds too heavy.
I don't know if there are any actual differences to the suspension geometry/components but I sure noticed a difference in ride and handling between them. The XE seemed more Mailbuish. Can't all be in the tires/rims. One more big reason why I bought the XR. :shades:

62vetteefp

thus will take a lot of sales away from the Aura.

NOOOO, the data shows that Saturn does not significantly any sales from any other GM product. I know that is hard to believe, and I find it hard, but those are the facts. Now that may change, but I doubt in the near term, that it will change that much.

http://www.carspace.com/autoobserver/Albums/Saturn/saturn_xshop.gif/page/photo.h-

I really doubt they will a 3.6 V6 at $21. Competition starts at $23,500 (Accord)/$24,000(Camry). Again we are talking MSRPs.

The only 4 cylinder in the Aura will be the Hybrid system?

62vetteefp

Same exact suspension. Only difference is stab bar diameters, rubber durameter, spring rates and tires.

Not everyone likes the harsh ride characteristics of the Europeans and Acuras. That is why so many love the Lexus and Toyota rides. May not handle like a sports car but take the bumps with aplomb.

Most drivers are not driving curving roads at high speeds, they are driving straight expressways at 75 mph or stop and go in the city.

phaetondriver

They knock the lateral G's and Weight distribution but love the acceleration. Got much better figures than Aura's claims for 0-60 and 1/4 mile
"We clocked an impressive 0–60-mph time of only 5.9 seconds, equaling our runs in the 274-bhp Mazdaspeed6, 260-bhp Nissan Altima SE-R and the 340-bhp Dodge Charger R/T, and besting the 268-bhp Toyota Camry SE V-6 by two-tenths of a second."
The 61/39 weight dist must help the launch but hurts cornering with too much understeer on the skid pad. They do say the on-road handling is much better than the skid pad indicates. I would guess it is due to the stability control system. It makes up for the poor weight distribution some how.
I still love mine :shades:

m1miata

Weight distribution for a FWD car seems about right to me, as in normal. No the stability control will now make the car handle better. It just saves your butt in some cases where the car, or its driver, is out of control. Handling can feel better in some cases, while not being better in one car than another. And there is the turn-in feel on cornering, and how the car seems to be setting on the turns, and how it reacts when you give her power out of the turn. Hard to say what they mean exactly when they say better than the skid pad indicates, but it may be true. It is like the slalom tests. Some short and light little cars may kick butt on your Porsche, but not on the race track. All the tests combined, plus a good bit of driving the car on all sorts of road, both rough and smooth, will give you a final total to go by. I am sure a BMW3 is gonna do great in testing and on the road, but you are talking around ten grand more for a smaller car. For a FWD, in its price range the XR is pretty hot. As for 0-60 times, these new breed of V6 FWD cars are putting down times as good or better than sports cars of days-gone-bye. Aura, Accord,Camry,Mazdaspeed6,Altima, you name it, are all seriously quick these days. Perhaps these are muscle cars.... OK, it is late and I am getting carried away......
Loren
P.S. I think the new quality tires have really helped Later G test scores compared to years past. The old tires just can not come close. Some good info. at The Tire Rack on tires. Sometimes a better than original equipment choice will improve on the grip -- price too, as some expensive tires are really not better performance wise.

1487

when did R&T do an instrumented test of the Aura XR? I must have missed that one.

phaetondriver

I went to the R&T web site and a link was on the home page.
It says May 2007 so I gues it is coming up soon.
GO to their web site to rad the "Road Test Update: 2007 Saturn Aura XR" by By Jim Hall.

1487

There will be some minor changes for the 2008 model, most significantly it appears a four cylinder will be standard on the XE. Stability will be available on the XE with V6 engine, the panoramic roof has been dropped, new colors will be added, a padded center armrest will be added and the Morocco Brown trim will extend to the steering wheel, gearshift and door panels. No 6 speed auto is available for XE model unfortunately.

62vetteefp

The 4 cylinder is the Greenline hybrid model. Stabilitrak standard on greenline and XR, available on XE. ONly the XR gets the 6 speed at this time.

62vetteefp

http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gm- news/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=3&docid=34380

1487

no, check the GM order guide and look at the complete equipment list. It indicates the 3.5 V6 is an option on the XE model because it says certain options (like stabilitrak) can only be selected with the V6 engine. There is also mention of the four cylinder engines (LE5 I think) on the standard equipment list that is on the Aura's order page. It appears that the base four cylinder XE isnt going to be available with many options.

62vetteefp

http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/printbook.jsp?year=2008&regionID=1&div- isionID=10&vehicleID=4783

Go here and you see that Hybrid system is standard on the Greenline model with the 4 cylinder.

Saturn wants to be the "green" division at GM.

1487

yeah, I got that. YOu have to check the standard equipment list on the main page to see where they reference the LE5 2.4L engine. The hybrid powertrain is called LAT I believe. Also, hit "print book" and look at the complete equipment list and you will see what I am talking about. Stability is optional on the XE (standard on the GL) but only with 3.5L engine per the footnotes. Same applies to hydraulic pwr steering, its not longer standard on the XE and the note says you can only get it with the V6. I think the 2.4L may not be available at launch of the 2008 model and that is why it's not listed as standard for XE model. If the V6 isnt optional on XE then they have some big mistakes in the equipment chart.

62vetteefp

I am not sure if you are agreeing or not with me!!

The 4 cylinder (LAT) is the only drivetrain available on the Greenline model of the Aura. HP7 (Hybrid Propulsion Equipment, electric, parallel, 3kW continuous power) is also standard on the Greenline model and not available on the XE/Xr's. You cannot get an Aura with a 4 cylinder unless it also has the Hybrid system. (see the mechanical pages of the order system).

LAT is the 4 cylinder ordering code and is not avaliable on anything but the Greenline on the Aura.

............Green Line....XE ......XR
LAT Engine, ....S ........--...... --

LZ4 Engine, ......-- ......S ......--

LY7 Engine, ......-- .....--....... S

1487

go to:http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/proddesc.jsp?year=2008&regionID=1&d- ivisionID=10&type=0&vehicleID=4783&section=oi_def&page=7&butID=16

Check out the standard equipment list. Pay close attention to Traction Control and hydraulic steering. TC is standard but ONLY with the LE5 four cylinder according to the note. Hydraulic steering is listed as available but ONLY with the 3.5 LZ4 engine. Stability control is now available on the XE but ONLY with the V6 per the note on the standard equipment list.

People on gminsidenews.com are divided as to what this means. My guess is that the four wont be available at first, but it will come later in the model year. The info clearly indicates the 3.5 V6 will not be standard on the XE for 2008.

62vetteefp

OK, I see what you are saying. Very possible 4 will be available on XE but then again they may have made a mistake. I used to give/approve these sheets and mistakes are easy BUT it could be as you say.

pegasus17

Newbie here: Somebody correct me if i'm wrong but won't the top-of-line malibu be very similar (mechanically) to the Aura XR-V6? The Consumer Reports auto issue "new models" section lists the new malibu as having the 3.6 V6 and a 6-speed AT. Also, is the 6-speed AT the one jointly developed by Ford/GM?

62vetteefp

Yes, same platform. BUT if you are referring to competing with each other then you should look at Michelle Krebs data here at Edmunds. Looks like there is very little cross shoping between Saturn and the rest of GM.

phaetondriver

Main reason I bought the Aura XR and not the Impala or Malibu was the 3.6 V6 +6 speed auto. I was very close to a purchase when a used Aura XR came to my attention. If the Chevy's had had the 3.6 instead of the 3.9 OHV I would be driving a chevy Impala now.

62vetteefp

I know it is tough to believe. I even emailed her, but no response.

http://www.carspace.com/autoobserver/Albums/Saturn/saturn_xshop.gif/page/photo.h-

1487

The tranny is the joint GM/Ford tranny. Its also used in the Outlook and Edge.

bottgers

Can the XR trim level be had with cloth interior?

bottgers

....a site I can go to to find out what my price would be for an XR using the employee discount? My Mom still has my deceased Father's GM benefits and she can give me a certificate.

1487

yes, check out the equipment here at Edmunds or on Saturns site.

phaetondriver

Note, that there is a $1000 Rebate in effect right now. I don't know if you can get IT and the employee discount. One person buying an Aura the same day I bought mine was using his retiree employee discount. It came to about $800. The dealer didn't mention the factory discount. So check to see if you can get both, or chose between them.

62vetteefp

You can always ge both. All disclunts are available after employee pricing.

bottgers

Are you sure that guy was getting an employee discount? $800 sounds way low. Back in '98 when my wife and I were looking at Olds Intregues, the employee discount price then was like $3K-$4K off the sticker. I'm sure the employee discount has got to be at least that much or more now since cars cost more now.

phaetondriver

Yes! He didn't like it and argued with the finance guy and the salesman. Turns out that Saturn doesn't give as big a discount to GM employees as do other GM divisions. Reason stated was that Saturns are not marked up as much as the others. Figures look the same to me between Dealer cost and morony. Check Edmunds for a comparison of invoice and sticker and see it is real close.
I don't have the REAL figures of course, just what Edmunds provides.
But hey, if you can get both then $1800 or so off sticker is a great price. Heck Leather and sunroof, which go together, is $1600 so you'd get them for free....+

phaetondriver

Go get the car and let us know how much you got off...

bottgers

I would've considered an XR if I could've gotten into one for around $22K-$23K, but $1800 off just isn't enough to lure me in. Not when they're stickering at $27K-$28K. There's always the year end sales where they may make huge markdowns to make room for the '08's, but otherwise...... There's also the option of waiting a year or two and picking up a slighty used one.

bottgers

If you had to pick one thing about this car that you'd improve, what would it be? Without owning or even driving one yet, I would say mine would be fuel economy. You'd think GM should be able to get at least 30 MPG out of this thing on the highway.

phaetondriver

I have been averaging 26.4 combined, over 28 on just freeway driving at 75mph. read my mpg report on the aura MPG page.
If you want 30+ MPG get the XE or Malibu with 3.5 L V-8. If you want performance, 6 speed paddle-shifting FUN!!! then you have to sacrifice some MPG.
I was ready to buy a Malibu/Impala with the 3.5 at just over $20K when I found a some used XR's at a dealer 100 miles away. I paid $22K for it with 5K miles. SO I didn't get to chose the color and interior I really wanted. I got 252 H-P, 0-60 in 5.9, instead of 30 MPG (and much better MPG than my Cadillac).
Am am really happy I bought the Saturn Aura XR instead of the Chevy, really happy! :shades:

phaetondriver

Let me correct a typo I made. My average has been 24.6 not 26.4 (I wish )Sorry.

jnt

If you want the roominess of the current Malibu Maxx, you may be more pleased with the new 08 Malibu since it will have the same long wheel base as the Maxx. The current Aura is shorter in this critical dimension (same as current G6). On top of that Chevy vehicles are normally better than lower volume siblings (Saturn, GMC, Olds,..). The new 08 Malibu will have the same engine options as the Aura.

jt

1487

The G6, '08 Malibu and current Maxx have the same 112 inch wheelbase. The Malibu sedan has a 106 inch wheelbase. The Aura/G6/'08 Mal have the same overall dimensions in wheelbase and length, give or take an inch or less.

A special edition XE model is being launched with 18" wheels and Morocco Brown or other color leather. It also includes the preferred package and perhaps another package. The wheels will not be the same design from the XR.

phaetondriver

I think you need to double check your facts. The 2007 Aura does have the same wheel-base as the Malibu MAXX @ 112 in. The Malibu sedan and Pontiac G6 have a 106 in wheelbase.
The Aura is 191 in long where the Malibu is 188.
Next time you go to a Chevy dealer check the fit and finish of the doors, hood and trunk. I found they were, generally, misaligned. Wider gaps at one side than the other or slight angles. I did not see this on any Saturn. The Saturn Aura is my firs GM product in 40 years of car buying and the quality of the fit and the engine/power train in the XR had a lot to do with that decision. I was going to buy a Malibu or Impala, even had a salesman searching for specific features I wanted when I bought the Saturn.

62vetteefp

The 2008 Malibu has the same WB as the Aura, G6, and old Malibu Maxx. The current regular Malibu has the shorter WB.

SO, please check the gaps of the new Malibu and compare to the Aura. You will see thea same 3mm exterior gaps. This is the new GM standard.

bottgers

....consider a Malibu for two reasons, it's ugly, and it's a Chevy. Saturns don't seem to have the typical build quality and reliability issues of the other GM makes, which is part of the reason I'm attracted to the Aura. That and it's just plain a beautiful car.