I don't know if it would be worse than the N/A 2.3. The only reference I could find for an N/A direct injection engine is the SEAT Leon. Without a turbo the 2.0 l engine makes about 150 hp and 148 ft/lbs of torque. With the turbo it makes about 200 hp and 204 ft/lbs of torque.
Yeah, that's what the local dealer told me today: orders for August MS3 production = late September MS3 arrival. FWIW, they ordered 4 GTs with no nav, one in each color. Sure wish I didn't have to wait until they arrive to see what cosmic blue looks like. I wasn't interested until I heard it's actually a dark gray with some green/purple hues. This is per a Mazda person who posts on the Mazda Canada forum and has seen a "paint chip." I'm assuming that's why it looks pretty much gray on a computer monitor.
Yeah, I have seen the paint chip as well on the computer screen. It looks similar to the Squall Blue Pearl that is on the Mazda6 wagon, with a tinge of gray to it.
I don't think hers was on a computer screen. It sounds like she had an actual paint chip, 'cause she said that she tried to scan it and it came out black. Apparently, she is going to take a poll of Canadians to see what color they will get besides True Red, so she may have actual samples of the colors. Anyway, I'm unclear as to whether it's grey or blue and what other colors it has in it. Everyone else is saying it's a light blue, which I'm not interested in.
The Mazdaspeed3 will be offered in two trim models, Sport and Grand Touring. All vehicles are powered by the 2.3L DISI Turbo engine producing more than 250 horsepower and 280lb. ft. of torque mated to a 6-speed manual transmission.
The Sport trim's list of standard equipment includes Limited Slip Differential (LSD), Traction Control System (TCS), side air bags and side air curtains, MAZDASPEED appearance parts, uniquely styled bucket seats, distinctive front and rear fascias, specially sculpted fenders, unique hood design, and 18" alloy wheels fitted with 215/45R18 tires.
The Grand Touring trim adds standard features such as leather seat bolsters, BOSE audio system with 7 speakers and 6CD changer, Xenon headlamps, LED tail lights, rain sensing front wipers, auto on/off headlamps, anti theft alarm and driving information system (trip computer). Navigation system can be added to the Grand Touring trim as a factory option.
It's safe to assume that the Mazdaspeed3 GT will be more expensive than the Mazdaspeed3 Sport which will be more expensive than any Mazda3. The question is what price ranges are involved?
Nobody knows, $23/24/25/26K US. I read on the Mazda Canada forum that MS3 pricing there will be announced in the next few weeks. My dealer here told me he won't know until August when they start building the cars destined for the US and assigning VINs.
I think thats more then a safe assumption. My thought, which is not backed by anything yet, is the Sport would be around $23,000 and Grand Touring $26,000 Bose Audio, moon roof, with nav.
Once again, nothing to back up my guess, just my thought.
yeah, I don't know way I wrote that. Just habit. Most Mazda's package the moon roof with the Bose audio, or 6cd changer. Since I talk to people about it all day, I guess I let my fingers run away with that one! oops!! Thanks for the correction.
Pretty awesome. The MS3 torque control system must really be doing the trick. I know different country, different cars, but it's still an indication. If Mazda says 6.1 0-60 for the MPS3, you know the non-official times will come in under that by a lot. Looks like the MS3 could be beating the MS6 (and a lot of other cars) in just about every acceleration category. Wait a second, just imagine if it was AWD! Just kidding, I wouldn't want the 250-300 weight penalty even if it meant being able to square off a corner the way the MS6 does.
Ok, before anyone goes nuts over the title of this post, or tries to say "don't compare AWD Vs. FWD", hear me out.
Does anyone know an accurate 0-60, 0-100 time for the WRX? If the claim by Mazda to be a sub 6 second car, would the Mazdaspeed3 be faster then the WRX?
Now, I'm pretty sure that the WRX is heaver, and has less horse power and torque. There should be no reason with "over 250hp" and 280lb.tq that the Mazdaspeed3 would win any sprint. Cornering would be another story, no AWD, but, the Mazda3 does have decent handling.
2006 WRX is 230hp, 235lb.tq
For what it's worth, I have found MSN Autos to not be very accurate.
Here are the stats I found from modernracer.com (for the WRX/non STi): 0-60 mph : 5.6 sec.(manual), 6.2 sec.(auto) 0-¼ mile : 14.3 sec @ 94.8 mph(manual)
I would like to see these two go head-to-head on a track...
My co-worker has an STi. I have ridden in it once and it was quite an experience.. Very, very fast...
colors are true red, sunlight silver mica, cosmic blue, and black mica. The site is posting 0-60 times under 6 seconds. I wish they would make the 3 speed in a sedan version
I think I based the weight penalty of adding AWD to the MS3 on the weight difference between the AWD Axela and the base Axela. The AWD weighs 160 kg more than the base AT model: 1240 kg vs. 1400.
I like the 3 "Wild Child" site much better than the Mazdaspeed6 site. Interesting, Mazda is using "provisional target" language for the 250+ HP rating.
They list EPA ratings at 20/28. Not bad! Still no pricing, curb weight or release date information, though.
">link titleso, the only upgrade from a fwd base Axela to an awd Axela is the awd drive itself? no upgraded safety features like curtain/side airbags or anti-locks? no upgraded fancy wheels or gizmos and the like? besides, how much weight difference is there between a 1.5 L engine vs. a 2.0 L engine?
oh, and at 2.2 lbs/kg., i believe 160 kgs is equal to 352 lbs., not 250-300 lbs.
I've seen more info on the speedster. HP is up to 264-267, depending on Euro vs. USA spec., respectfully (they have torque at a still lofty 280 lbs/ft. or 380nm). link title I also stumbled upon a review that says that 1st gear will be limited to only 230 lbs. to help the ltd. slip cope with wheel spin. Never heard of such a thing, but is plausible. Strange, though, as the review listed the governed 1st gear HP when it really is the torque value that would cause the nervousness up front.
Oh, and excuse my sucky memory. Sure, I did the calculation once, but the difference is really not that important so I didn't do it again, even in my head. Oh, and I have no freaking idea what other upgrades the AWD Axela has. IT'S JUST SPECULATION BASED ON CARS IN ANOTHER COUNTRY.
so what u r trying to say regarding the actual "penalty" of the AWD is that we really should rely on the car mags. and other professional reviews (vis-a-vis MPS 6 reviews) until otherwise proven to the contrary.
the difference is important. going from a 1.5 to 1.8 to 2.0 to 2.3 L engines, the mfg. usually adds other features or creature comforts to the package. kind of take it or leave it. so in addition to the bigger and heavier engines, additional weight is attributed to other features like awd or curtain/side air bags. more importantly, where these other features reside is equally important. hypothetically, the 1.5 L base weight could be ideally distributed equally 50/50/50/50 fore & aft as well as side to side (of course taking into consideration only an average size/weight driver). But as weight is added from the upgrades, this ideal distribution could be compormised. Driving with a full tank vs. 3/4 empty tank of gas makes a difference as well. All 3's are built for the twisties while only the speed 3 is that plus straight line performance. Squaring off a corner is kid's stuff. Drifting and scrubbing is where the fun resides.
At the end of the day, a fwd vs. rwd vs. awd may or may not have its penalties. Now imagine if the MPS 3 came stripped of all useless bells and wistles! Cheaper and more agile? One could only hope. And I'm not kidding.
Excuse me. I thought that we all knew that this an internet forum and not a freaking automotive engineering conference. But, frankly, since the MS3 will be FWD only, this question is never likely to be answered in mags or anywhere else for that matter. But you feel free to continue picking apart the air like it matters. I'll continue to come up with what I think are reasonable guesses and let you and others take or leave them.
"come to think of it, add some future MPS 3 owners to that list of useless bells and wistle"
Hey chaco - the MPS3 is what it is. Folks will either buy it or won't buy based on what IT IS.
If that means that I buy it because it is the best vehicle in it's segment FOR ME, then obviously FOR ME, Mazda made a good move by not making it AWD.
By the same token, if you DON'T buy it because it isn't AWD, then obviously FOR YOU, Mazda made a boneheaded move.
Now, I can only speak for one person - me. And you can only speak for one person - you. So, right now no one really knows if Mazda made the right decision to go with fwd rather than awd (although based on the number of Speed6's I see crowding the dealer's lots, I'd be inclined to think that they made the right decision).
Last comment - you've been carping about the AWD vs FWD issue on the Speed3 for MONTHS. Mazda isn't listening. They aren't changing just because YOU don't like it.
According to Mazda, the (manual) Mazdaspeed3 (hatchback) is approximately 180 lbs. heavier than the manual Mazda3 hatchback:
Mazda3 hatch = 1309 kg / 2,885 lbs. Mazdaspeed3 = 1390 kg / 3,064 lbs.
But for that 180 lbs. the Mazdaspeed gains close to 100 hp, so it appears to me that Mazda wanted to ensure that the "wild child" lives up to its name.
Oh, and while you're at it, add yourself to the list of would-be forum sages who are really just venting their inner twit.
I did what you should have done if you really wanted to advance the cause of truth. My comparison of the base AT Axela's curb weight to the AWD model's curb weight does not bear out especially well as a way to get an idea of the weight penalty, but it is not outrageously bad either. Per Edmunds here are some other cars which may more accurately reflect the weight penalty and cost of adding AWD.
Since I think the Volvo S40 is probably the closest comparison to the MS3, I now think that I personally would have preferred AWD. Even if it isn't perfect, at least as implemented in the MS6. But there are probably a lot of people who wouldn't be willing to cough up the extra money or be happy with the extra weight. I bet the main reason Mazda decided to forego AWD is additional cost of servicing the MS3's warranty. There have already been a fair number of hard-driving MS6 owners on mazda6club.com who have had drivetrain problems repaired under warranty and the MS6 is aimed at an older demographic. The MS3's younger buyers are that much more likely to drive them really hard and need drivetrain repairs. That's also the best reason I've heard as to why Mazda is limiting throttle in 1st and/or 2nd gear.
hey Sean - over on the 'other' forum, I noticed you've got a deposit down on a MS3 here in Austin. Do you mind my asking which dealer (Premiere in Gtown, Mazda South, or the central RB Mazda)?
Also, did they give you any indication of how many units they'd been allocated?
actually, I did but didn't post. I went a different route and came up with 90kgs. or 198lbs. Besides, I like to supply the rope a little at a time for the fun of it. And if I really had enough time in a day, I would have located the mag. article on the MPS 6.
Now, I'd like to think of myself as the author of that list, but never a character. And venting everyone should. And not about the AWD vs xyz. Rorr jumped in but on the wrong page. 1st gear (possibly 2nd gear) with ltd. hp/torque? Who gives Mazda the right? Where's the on/off switch for this gizmo? or the ltd. slip? or the anti-lock brakes? Or does someone always have to come up with a warranty voiding mod? And I'd feel the same about the AWD
Matter of fact is sometimes you want these devices on a car such as an MPS 3 (especially with the condition of roads today) and sometimes they get in the way of reaching (to the point of breaching) the car's potential (especially at the track).
Or does someone always have to come up with a warranty voiding mod?
Since this forum has gotten a bit technical, I will let you know that a warranty can never be "void". Modifications made outside Mazda guidelines are subject to not honoring the warranty repair if that mod happen to cause a malfunction in another area of the vehicle for that specific instance.
It's much more entertaining to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. And relative to today's vehicles, the MPS 3 is still considered a slow car.
Do u really think that the Michael Schumachers of the world started driving a Ferrari type in their mid-teens? Mickey, in fact, started in CART/KART clubs/series. I wouldn't be suprised if he once drove/owned a Cinquecento for the fun of it.
At the limits is where the fun begins - all else is just a Sunday drive. As far as the MPS 3 goes, without AWD nor the on/off switches for all those gizmos, I'm left with a car and a dream.
Comments
http://seat.co.uk/generator/su/uk/newLeon/site/main.html
My assumption of less power is based on taking a turbo off the existing engine and replacing it with a straight pipe.
How about the regular 2007 3's?
but i now c that we are all enthusiasts here
got to go; if needed, I'll be down at the track breaking it down
cu
Any word on pricing yet (or even WHEN the pricing info might be release)?
1390 kg which is to say 3,064 pounds
In other words, it looks like it's 238 pounds heavier
than the Mazda3 S Grand touring wagon.
See www.axela.mazda.co.jp
The paint chip in my dealer system did not look that purple.
The Mazdaspeed3 will be offered in two trim models, Sport and Grand Touring. All vehicles are powered by the 2.3L DISI Turbo engine producing more than 250 horsepower and 280lb. ft. of torque mated to a 6-speed manual transmission.
The Sport trim's list of standard equipment includes Limited Slip Differential (LSD), Traction Control System (TCS), side air bags and side air curtains, MAZDASPEED appearance parts, uniquely styled bucket seats, distinctive front and rear fascias, specially sculpted fenders, unique hood design, and 18" alloy wheels fitted with 215/45R18 tires.
The Grand Touring trim adds standard features such as leather seat bolsters, BOSE audio system with 7 speakers and 6CD changer, Xenon headlamps, LED tail lights, rain sensing front wipers, auto on/off headlamps, anti theft alarm and driving information system (trip computer). Navigation system can be added to the Grand Touring trim as a factory option.
It's safe to assume that the Mazdaspeed3 GT will be more expensive than the Mazdaspeed3 Sport which will be more expensive than any Mazda3. The question is what price ranges are involved?
Once again, nothing to back up my guess, just my thought.
Pretty awesome. The MS3 torque control system must really be doing the trick. I know different country, different cars, but it's still an indication. If Mazda says 6.1 0-60 for the MPS3, you know the non-official times will come in under that by a lot. Looks like the MS3 could be beating the MS6 (and a lot of other cars) in just about every acceleration category. Wait a second, just imagine if it was AWD! Just kidding, I wouldn't want the 250-300 weight penalty even if it meant being able to square off a corner the way the MS6 does.
Does anyone know an accurate 0-60, 0-100 time for the WRX? If the claim by Mazda to be a sub 6 second car, would the Mazdaspeed3 be faster then the WRX?
Now the STi version is another story (and much more expensive). It does 0-60 in about 4.7 seconds (or lower)..
So the speed3 should be pretty close to the standard WRX...
2006 WRX is 230hp, 235lb.tq
For what it's worth, I have found MSN Autos to not be very accurate.
0-60 mph : 5.6 sec.(manual), 6.2 sec.(auto)
0-¼ mile : 14.3 sec @ 94.8 mph(manual)
I would like to see these two go head-to-head on a track...
My co-worker has an STi. I have ridden in it once and it was quite an experience.. Very, very fast...
i do recall car mag reviews of the MS6 puting that figure for ONLY the AWD upgrade to about half.
of course, standard fair of upgrading to a speed 6 would add weight to the chassis/suspension, regardless of FWD, RWD, or AWD
so, perhaps, the 300 lbs. is for the total speed pack.?
mazda updated their web with info on the new speed 3 version. Check it out
colors are true red, sunlight silver mica, cosmic blue, and black mica. The site is posting 0-60 times under 6 seconds. I wish they would make the 3 speed in a sedan version
They list EPA ratings at 20/28. Not bad! Still no pricing, curb weight or release date information, though.
Thanks for the heads up.
Greg
oh, and at 2.2 lbs/kg., i believe 160 kgs is equal to 352 lbs., not 250-300 lbs.
I've seen more info on the speedster. HP is up to 264-267, depending on Euro vs. USA spec., respectfully (they have torque at a still lofty 280 lbs/ft. or 380nm). link title I also stumbled upon a review that says that 1st gear will be limited to only 230 lbs. to help the ltd. slip cope with wheel spin. Never heard of such a thing, but is plausible. Strange, though, as the review listed the governed 1st gear HP when it really is the torque value that would cause the nervousness up front.
the difference is important. going from a 1.5 to 1.8 to 2.0 to 2.3 L engines, the mfg. usually adds other features or creature comforts to the package. kind of take it or leave it. so in addition to the bigger and heavier engines, additional weight is attributed to other features like awd or curtain/side air bags. more importantly, where these other features reside is equally important. hypothetically, the 1.5 L base weight could be ideally distributed equally 50/50/50/50 fore & aft as well as side to side (of course taking into consideration only an average size/weight driver). But as weight is added from the upgrades, this ideal distribution could be compormised. Driving with a full tank vs. 3/4 empty tank of gas makes a difference as well. All 3's are built for the twisties while only the speed 3 is that plus straight line performance. Squaring off a corner is kid's stuff. Drifting and scrubbing is where the fun resides.
At the end of the day, a fwd vs. rwd vs. awd may or may not have its penalties. Now imagine if the MPS 3 came stripped of all useless bells and wistles! Cheaper and more agile? One could only hope. And I'm not kidding.
Well, at least the MPS3 is stripped of ONE major useless bell and whistle.......
....I just wish someone in here could get over that little fact and deal with the fact that the MPS3 is fwd and not awd...
BTW - wouldn't an ideal weight distribution be 25/25/25/25 and not 50/50/50/50?
Hey chaco - the MPS3 is what it is. Folks will either buy it or won't buy based on what IT IS.
If that means that I buy it because it is the best vehicle in it's segment FOR ME, then obviously FOR ME, Mazda made a good move by not making it AWD.
By the same token, if you DON'T buy it because it isn't AWD, then obviously FOR YOU, Mazda made a boneheaded move.
Now, I can only speak for one person - me. And you can only speak for one person - you. So, right now no one really knows if Mazda made the right decision to go with fwd rather than awd (although based on the number of Speed6's I see crowding the dealer's lots, I'd be inclined to think that they made the right decision).
Last comment - you've been carping about the AWD vs FWD issue on the Speed3 for MONTHS. Mazda isn't listening. They aren't changing just because YOU don't like it.
Mazda3 hatch = 1309 kg / 2,885 lbs.
Mazdaspeed3 = 1390 kg / 3,064 lbs.
But for that 180 lbs. the Mazdaspeed gains close to 100 hp, so it appears to me that Mazda wanted to ensure that the "wild child" lives up to its name.
I did what you should have done if you really wanted to advance the cause of truth. My comparison of the base AT Axela's curb weight to the AWD model's curb weight does not bear out especially well as a way to get an idea of the weight penalty, but it is not outrageously bad either. Per Edmunds here are some other cars which may more accurately reflect the weight penalty and cost of adding AWD.
Volvo S40 T5: 170 lbs / $1775
G35: 200 lbs / $1800
BMW 325i: 275 lbs / $1900
Since I think the Volvo S40 is probably the closest comparison to the MS3, I now think that I personally would have preferred AWD. Even if it isn't perfect, at least as implemented in the MS6. But there are probably a lot of people who wouldn't be willing to cough up the extra money or be happy with the extra weight. I bet the main reason Mazda decided to forego AWD is additional cost of servicing the MS3's warranty. There have already been a fair number of hard-driving MS6 owners on mazda6club.com who have had drivetrain problems repaired under warranty and the MS6 is aimed at an older demographic. The MS3's younger buyers are that much more likely to drive them really hard and need drivetrain repairs. That's also the best reason I've heard as to why Mazda is limiting throttle in 1st and/or 2nd gear.
I was looking at the upcoming section of madzausa.
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=upcomingMS3
Looks like there are only four colors as well. I'm not too sure about the blue ... would like to see it in person.
Also, did they give you any indication of how many units they'd been allocated?
Now, I'd like to think of myself as the author of that list, but never a character. And venting everyone should. And not about the AWD vs xyz. Rorr jumped in but on the wrong page. 1st gear (possibly 2nd gear) with ltd. hp/torque? Who gives Mazda the right? Where's the on/off switch for this gizmo? or the ltd. slip? or the anti-lock brakes? Or does someone always have to come up with a warranty voiding mod? And I'd feel the same about the AWD
Matter of fact is sometimes you want these devices on a car such as an MPS 3 (especially with the condition of roads today) and sometimes they get in the way of reaching (to the point of breaching) the car's potential (especially at the track).
Since this forum has gotten a bit technical, I will let you know that a warranty can never be "void". Modifications made outside Mazda guidelines are subject to not honoring the warranty repair if that mod happen to cause a malfunction in another area of the vehicle for that specific instance.
Do u really think that the Michael Schumachers of the world started driving a Ferrari type in their mid-teens? Mickey, in fact, started in CART/KART clubs/series. I wouldn't be suprised if he once drove/owned a Cinquecento for the fun of it.
At the limits is where the fun begins - all else is just a Sunday drive. As far as the MPS 3 goes, without AWD nor the on/off switches for all those gizmos, I'm left with a car and a dream.
Here: http://www.mazda.com/publicity/release/200606/0606.html