I don't know if you are aware that the Renault Espace (Minivan) has gone through at least 2 new revisions since the model that you posted in post # 178. You might want to see the most current version (kinda real funky and cool looking) which i'm sure can be viewed at the Renault company site. i would assume you can see it in English through the UK Renault link.
In the next few years we will see Renault products sold again in the USA but with the NIssan name on them. Ghosn, the amazing head of Nissan (who originally came from Renault) has now turned his attention to Renault and wants to make it more of a player world-wide. He just might pull it off.
After all, Ghosn took Nissan from the edge of bankruptcy and turned it around in the span of just a few years. He is regarded by many in Japan as practically a national hero for saving a venerable Japanese company from destruction. :shades:
Today's NY Times has a review of the new Mazda mini minivan and a comparison with the Odyssey. It calls the Mazda the only real mini minivan out there and is positive about it in general. But with the 4 it gets about the same mileage as the Honda v6. It praises the Odyssey as having the fit and finish as many luxury sedans. I contend that in the future there will be no onus attached to owning this kind of vehicle. I will become the norm and will appear in several different sizes and power trains. The only other option will be small sedan hybrid.
Yes, I am aware of, and have seen the latest Espace while I was living overseas. I was trying to point out the Espace concept with v-10 F1 engine at the bottom of the first link.
We've moved this discussion to its permanent home on the Wagons board - pf_flyer is your new host. Thanks for the great conversation!
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Has anyone heard how the R is selling or any experiences on pricing? I am test driving one tomorrow -- more intrigued than serious -- and am interested in perspective before I hear the sales, er, prattle. I am currently driving a E320S4 and while I would welcome just a bit more space (its hard to fit both kids' bikes in the rear) am not sure that I want to take the plunge on a brand new model at its introduction. And I'm more than certain that I wouldn't pay sticker.
Would like to hear if your salesperson hints at any discounts. The dealer by me seems to have a couple more out front each day. Have a nice test ride and let us know how it handles and what that turning radius is like! I can think of a couple other people movers that your kid's bikes would fit in
And I've probably owned or driven half of them. Been there, done that with SUV's and I've never driven a mini-van that I'd want to own or that I'd be happy with on my weekly 2.5 hour drive to/from the country. Very happy with the Ewagon overall. We'll see.
Should be a nice day here in NYC tomorrow to test the built in snorkel. Or is that an option, too?
I just came from other forums relating to Acura MDX, Lexus GX470 and Honda Odyssey mini vans. I must say, it was a pleasure switching to this Mercedes discussion. The intellect and humor of the previous person (albell) was appreciated! I am currently driving a 1997 Landcruiser but want to switch to something new.
FYI that I received a quote from a local MB dealer of 4% off sticker for in stock delivery (the catch being take delivery in October -- ha.) That and the lease special announced today would suggest that the vehicle is not moving.
I really thought the discounting would not happen until early next year. Oh well. I'm going to check and see if Honda has released any new incentives on the Ody.. oops, sorry 'bout that. Forgot where I was for a brief moment.
This may be the fastest incentive slapping ever. I am amazed, since the model is still being "introduced." Perhaps they timed the offer to the "R" parties being held yesterday and today, to give salesmen a hook. I think the offer is weak, myself.
I ordered an R350 this weekend, after visiting an upstate NY dealership with wife and kids and taking a more extensive test drive. Depending on whether they can jump the queue or swap a car in or near production, it will take at least 30 days, or as much as 90. Their next production allotment doesn't get started until early January.
Obviously, they (and I) would have preferred not to order, and they tried like heck to find one with the options I wanted, but couldn't. But they agreed to a 4% discount from MSRP even for the built from scratch, and gave me a good trade for my wagon. And I will have it exactly as I want it, albeit not for a while. Never ordered a car before.
R350 Desert Silver, black interior Panoramic sunroof Comfort package Lighting package Heating package Entertainment package (a last minute splurge, the HK makes a huge difference in the sound quality in the hall, er, car.)
There's more interesting tidbits to share, which I will try to do later, if anyone is interested.
The R350 I semi-spec'd is now in and I have to decide...i do think it's slightly overpriced (by about $5k IMO) but not enough to keep me from buying. THe problem is that I didn't have the options list when I was spec'ing (prior to release) so there are a couple things missing that are desirable (3 zone climate, Parktronic). It has just about everything else-i just need to decide what i'm willing to pay for it and if the missing options are deal breakers and need the dealer to locate one with them. Would love to hear the details you mentioned, albell. BTW, the one i want is black with macadamia, showing that different strokes for different folks is always the case since most of the postings here bash the color (seems most bash the car itself, too, but oh well).
I've been out of town recently and I'm just catching up with this forum.
Thanks for surrendering! (Just kidding).
By the way, it might interest you to know that I have 3 kids of my own, and have been through the whole minivan/soccer/baseball/dance class...etc thing.
I still have an 11 year old at home, though the rest of my brood is older now, I still like driving minivans. I really don't care what other people think.
I, like you, would rather be driving some kind of serious sports car (and from time to time I have owned a number) but in the real world of family hauling, almost nothing beats a good minivan. Not a Windstar/Freestar or a Montana/Venture/Sillouhette.
An Odyssey/Sienna/Quest is what I'm talking about. They are surprisingly good.
And they have seating that separates the feuding kids so you don't have to hear-"he touched me!!!???!!!" while you're trying to enjoy the fall foliage.
Just took a weekend trip through New England in the Pacifica, and it was just terrific. This is a vehicle that loves to cruise long distance.
Interestingly, just the weekend before, I gave the Pacifica to my 20 yr old son to drive up to Binghamton, NY for the weekend (about a 3-4 hour drive each way) and he came back raving about it. He normally drives a BMW X3. He complained about the lack of power, but said he could forgive the lack of power for the tremendous tracking ability and surprisingly good handling of this 4800 pound machine. He gets it.
One of the more interesting aspects of my weekend visit to MB was the sales management and staff asking my opinion on how the R should be built and optioned. It seems that MB just "dumped" initial inventory into the market (maybe that's common, I don't know), and the sales staff said there didn't seem to be a lot of what they viewed as essential. I told them at minimum each car they order for inventory should have what other MB's of similar or higher price have standard -- the comfort package which privdes seat memory, steering column adjustment, auto dimming mirrors, etc.
I think MB made a mistake by not including what I consider essentials for a properly equipped luxury car. Then again, they have a habit of doing this (see M-Class introduction in 97.) The other error, IMO, is the lack of standard fog lights. Why should you have to pay for Xenons to get them. Your bad, MB.
As to pricing, given the room, drivetrains and the R's placing in the model lineup, I don't think it's priced wrong...higher than M Class, but more room and versatility for average user (better gas mileage, too), lower than E Wagon, but with a reduced level of finish and standard content. When MB concedes to market demand and adds content to the car (which they will, as they did with the ML),. then I think pricing will be in line. MB is not a "value" play in terms of getting more for your money. The value is in the overall package and durability -- if the quality is there. I think the engineering is excellent; we'll see aboyt reliability. I would welcome a lack of annoying nits that have cropped up in my E. They still can't get the sunroof to stay synchronized, for example.
Albell, just curious, what made you jump from E Wagon. We are in your situation (2000 MY E Wagon 4 Matic) but came back from dealer with the clear feeling that R had some ups (more space, newer interior etc.) vs. wagon but wagon also some ups (We still think that previous gen E-Wagon are the best looking vehicles) and ofcourse the trade in would seriously hurt.?
Can you please explain what was your reason for deciding to switch
For me, it came down to wanting more space and flexibility. I say wanting, rather than needing, because in most cases, the E wagon is fine for our family (2 boys, mom and me.) But we travel to the country just about each weekend (about 110 miles each way) and often stop to pick up a cousin or friend of one of the kids. The middle seat in the E's second row is becoming problematic as the kids grow. The rear facing 3rd row is not really an option for long trips,especially with cargo. It seems that we cart all of our belongings with us each weekend, in addition to doing our weekly shopping upstate. My wife also likes the higher seating position the R offers, and the kids like having their own personal space. So, in the end, it comes down to flexibility. And my sanity for 4+ hours each week.
I owned SUV's forever before switching to the E wagon. They are no longer an option for me...I don't like the tradeoffs between cargo and ride, and I've driven most of the offerings out there at one time or the other. I think the R is the best of all worlds, at least so far. Not perfect--the ride is NOT like the wagon, but it does ride and drive like a Benz. And that's what I want.
I know others have said in this and other boards that the R is just a fancy, expensive mini-van. Sorry, but if you like to drive and can appreciate the aspects that affect ride quality, then their is no comparison between the R and any minivan, at least for me. It's more like an S-wagon, with compromises.
I see that they re not selling well (930 in October). I know that I have dealers calling me still, following up on my initial inquiries. It seems that stock is growing. Deals are there, at least in NYC metro.
Someone did a comparison driving test with the R and a Pacifica and gave the Pacifica higher marks. I will drive the R before I make a final decision. Clearly they both came out of the same design show in Dusledorf or somewhere in Germany.
I don't know who that person is, but from my point of view there is no comparison in the dynamics of the two. I have seen others compare the Chrysler 300 to the E, as well and the same holds. But that's purely subjective. Different strokes, as they say.
For those of you who own an R, what has your repair record been like? I've had an MDX for 3 and a half years and NOTHING has ever gone wrong. Granted its not that much fun to drive - but with two little kids in tow its nice to know that when I turn the key its gonna start. It makes me nervous that the R comes from Bama - where the M and all its problems come from. Any experiences anyone would like to share? :confuse:
I don't think any R owners have enough miles to comment on this as it is so new. If they did have negative comments on maintanence of the R at this point it would not bode well. I've had 4 Acuras since 1987 with no issues as either(3 Legends and 1 TL), whereas my current AMG mercedes had had numerous issues. Mercedes in general, needs to clean up it's act, when it comes to reliability as so many surveys have pointed out. None of my issues have stranded me, thank G.
I'm also a bit curious about the Audi Q7 that keeps threatening to come out 1stq .. 2ndq next year? Its supposed to be built on the Toureg/Cayenne frame but be 6 inches longer so it has a 3rd row. What is your take on Audis?
I dont think the audi willbe as spacious as the R. I would expect the 3rd row to be on par with other midsize SUV's.but not the R. I havent seen the specs, but I think it will compete more with the M-Class than the R.
While they drive well and have gorgeous interiors, (I love my friends' allroads) Audi's have quality issues on par with MB at the least, and horrible resale and residual values.
I am contemplating an R-class or E-class wagon. We have three small kids.
Looks like the R350 is a few thousand less than a comparably equipped E350 wagon. If you go light on the options, even an R500 is close to the E wagon with AWD. I like to learn as much as I can before visiting a dealer and getting on the follow-up phone list. What are your opinions on the following:
-Is the V6 powerful enough for the R, or is the V8 definitely worth it? I have read positive reviews of the R350, but I like plenty of power.
-How is the handling of the R compared to the E-wagon? It is obviously bigger, but is it as "nimble" and "agile" as the commercials would have me think? I know it's not a sports car, but if the E is significantly more fun to drive, that's worth something to me.
-Is there decent space behind the third row (is there a storage well under that rear floor area - it's hard to tell from the photos, but judging by spec of 15 cubic feet, I am guessing not)?
-Are there car seat LATCH anchors in all the rear seats?
-Is that console between the second row seats removeable?
-Does the airmatic suspension make a significant difference? Can the standard suspension handle a decent load without sagging? I will have all the kids and their stuff on board frequently.
-Any early indications of quality problems?
I'd tend to wait until the new model year and see if the price comes down or they add some more standard features as someone mentioned previously, but the current lease deal looks good.
I have an E-Class wagon and will be switching to an R350 when it's built in early 2005. I have two kids and love my wagon, but need a bit more room. If you have 3, I think you will find the wagon barely adequate. The middle of the second row has a transmission tunnel, and is a tight squeeze best suited for short trips. The 3rd row faces backwards and I have had problems with passengers back there.
The R does not handle like the E wagon. That is not to say it handles poorly; it is just a different vehicle. Higher, heavier and longer. I thought it drove better than any SUV or minivan I have ever driven. But it is not a car. It is nimble and agile for its class.
I found the 350 engine to be more than adequate, but others have different opinions. I did not think the 500 is worth the premium, especially with a new V8 due soon. But of you're a power-hound, it might be a little pokey with the V6.
There are latch hook ups on the 2nd and 3rd row seats. The 2nd row console is removable. I also found the space behind the 3rd row to be ok. There is really not a storage well undeneath, but there is some space around the spare below the deck.
haven't heard much about quality issues...there are less than 2000 on the road at this point. I would look at the M-Class forums to get an idea, since the assembly is also done in Alabama.
There are discounts...every dealer that I spoke with in my research was willing to discount off of list. If you can find one that you like on the lot, I'd say you can get a good price.
Thanks. What about the Airmatic? Anyone driven both? I'm not going to be carrying around tons of brick, not sure I need to pay extra for the load leveling feature.
I am considering the Purchase of an R-class. I drive an E320 4matic but with three kids under the age of 7, it makes my drive home from school a challenge and me a referee. The back seat has become too small. Is the lease option of 599/month a good deal. Are the cars available or is more of a way to get customers into the show room. Has anyone actually leased their R-class. I personally have always purchased my cars but in case am considering the lease. I would like to have the option to move over to the diesel R-class if it were to come out 2-3 years from now.
This lease offer on the 350R limits your mileage to 10K a year, so you must consider that first. If you drive considerably more than that a year than you should probably continue to buy as you always have. From what I can see the cars are immediately available unless you are looking for specific options. The lease is set up with a base 350R and the premium option which isn't all bad, quite frankly. The motivation on MB's part is to get these cars on the road, in my opinion, as they haven't been big sellers so far. Getting out of a lease early is a bit problematic as well, so if you are looking to bail out in 24 months I would go with a 24 month lease or buy. Obviously, you know that you will be taking a huge depreciation hit if you trade after only 2 years of ownership. 3 youngins' in the back seat of any sedan would be enough for me to want to buy a bus! Two back there is enough for me now.
Thanks Chirp for your input. I think i want to be able to get out of it in 3 years or so. Rather than negociating on the $$$ of the lease I think I may get MB to increase the millage to 12k/year or maybe see what they want for 15k/year. I think what I would be paying for the lease would just about equal what the depreciation would be over those 3+years. I will let you know what happens.
in my search for an R Class that was optioned the way I wnted, (fairly lighthly...stickered in the mid-50's) I found the inventory lacking, especially if you aren't found of black or silver. Most of the inventory in the northeast is way loaded 60k-plus or lacking in some needed feature (such as the comfort package.)
"If you step into the R-Class, you see that individuals, with exception of front row, don't have enough flexibility or individual space. When you are sitting in the second or third row of the R-Class, you make a compromise. You aren't sitting comfortably."
And when they do come out with their "space functional concept," you can be sure that it will have compromises too. While excellent driver's cars, BMW's have always been about passenger compromises. The versatility of the X series or 5 series wagons as compared with their the M-Class or E-Class counterparts, is what would properly be called a fantasy. Seems that Herr Panke spent too much time at Octoberfest.
Apples to Apples I always give sporty-ness to BMW. And i give comfort and space to MB. Any of these cars with have the acceleration and passing power I need. It comes down to comfort and space. Either car will get me to where I am going, but how do i feel when i get there is whats important. Also how does the whole family (spouse and 3 kids) feel when we get there. With the kids under the age of 7, ITS ALL ABOUT THE SPACE. Separation is key.
BMW has been very chatty lately, guess it must be their strong succes and the passing of Mercedes-Benz in worldwide sales.
Anyway, I can't wait to see if their take on the R-Class segment is going to have a huge third-row seat. I seriously doubt it would. To get a vehicle the size of the R-Class with a larger third row would require a suspension way to stiff for a comfortable ride, especially since BMW feels that air suspension isn't right for their vehicles. We'll see.
Who really makes a third row seat that a normal sized adult male can sit in and be truly "comfortable"?
just to note - the R got some favorable reviews in USA Today & Smart Money. I also saw a favorable review of the new 5 series bimmer wagon. when is the new v8 coming out? wouldn't that make the resale on the present v8 pretty bad?
The SmartMoney review ends with a jab at content and pricing, saying that given this is a "1.0" version of the concept that it should have a better value proposition. I would agree with that.
It seems to me that the BMW version of the R class is to be built on the same frame as the x5 I don't see how they can get a third row as spacious as the mercedes R Class. And I will tell you "M" I am pretty satisfied with the amount of space I have in my third row I am 6 foot and I am reasonably satisfied with the space. I would not go cross country like that but I am happy. Additionally, folks I get so many compliments on our car it is unbelievable. People love it they just may not be able to afford it. Our dealership is doing well with the car. My only regret is that I leased before they offered the leasing discount.... Really pissed me off. I told the dealer that they WILL make that up to me next purchase. We took the first delivery of the R500 in the Southeast. I was excited about the car and it has not disappointed :shades:
OK here goes I have the R500 1. I would purchase the R500 because I like more power. I drove the 350 and the 500 has more punch 2.Fun car to drive amazing at how nimble this car is. You would not know you are driving a car that large it is amazing my wife gets mad because I drive too "aggresively" 3. Not a whole lotta room behind the third row. However is good enough to get a buggy of groceries in.. Very easy to fold down one of the rear seats which gives a whole lot more space.No storage well 4. There are latch anchors I think but I will recheck that for you (My wife drives the car) 5.The console is removeable or you can get the car without the console. However it is very nice to have the cupholders there. 6. The suspension is amazing you can physically feel the difference when you adjust the car. amazing there 7. Only problem I have had is a cracked windshield washer container or well. We will get that replaced shortly. We have 3 small kids as well and we have been very pleased with this car. We traded in a YUKON XL and while we miss the trunk space we don't miss the drive and inconvience of the size of the truck. The car is more sporty and fun to drive than any SUV or MINI VAN. So far So Good. Let me know if you have any other questions. By the Way gas mileage is running about 14/20-22 depending on who's driving lol
when is the new v8 coming out? wouldn't that make the resale on the present v8 pretty bad?
New V8 R550 (382hp) for 2007. We may get a 335hp 4.6L V8 R450 also, not sure about that. There should be a R320 CDI for 2007. Will likely hurt resale of the "old" V8 models being sold now.
I hope that for 2007 Mercedes makes some of these packages standard, especially on the R550. The R has one too many option packages imo. Air suspension and a power liftgate should be stanard on the R550 for that kind of money, among other things.
Comments
http://www.matrasport.dk/Cars/Espace/history.html
or
http://www.matrasport.dk/Cars/Espace/Gallery2/Med/espaceF1.html
now, that is a minivan I'd love to drive everyday! I am trying to convince my wife that TRD supercharger on our Sienna would be a nice "accessory".
While European minivans do not have things like fold-away seats, etc., the exterior styling definitely is more attractive (at least to my eyes).
I don't know if you are aware that the Renault Espace (Minivan) has gone through at least 2 new revisions since the model that you posted in post # 178. You might want to see the most current version (kinda real funky and cool looking) which i'm sure can be viewed at the Renault company site. i would assume you can see it in English through the UK Renault link.
In the next few years we will see Renault products sold again in the USA but with the NIssan name on them. Ghosn, the amazing head of Nissan (who originally came from Renault) has now turned his attention to Renault and wants to make it more of a player world-wide. He just might pull it off.
After all, Ghosn took Nissan from the edge of bankruptcy and turned it around in the span of just a few years. He is regarded by many in Japan as practically a national hero for saving a venerable Japanese company from destruction. :shades:
I contend that in the future there will be no onus attached to owning this kind of vehicle. I will become the norm and will appear in several different sizes and power trains. The only other option will be small sedan hybrid.
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Will report thoughts after the spin.
Should be a nice day here in NYC tomorrow to test the built in snorkel. Or is that an option, too?
That didn't take as long as I thought it might
I really thought the discounting would not happen until early next year. Oh well. I'm going to check and see if Honda has released any new incentives on the Ody.. oops, sorry 'bout that. Forgot where I was for a brief moment.
Let the fun begin.
Obviously, they (and I) would have preferred not to order, and they tried like heck to find one with the options I wanted, but couldn't. But they agreed to a 4% discount from MSRP even for the built from scratch, and gave me a good trade for my wagon. And I will have it exactly as I want it, albeit not for a while. Never ordered a car before.
R350
Desert Silver, black interior
Panoramic sunroof
Comfort package
Lighting package
Heating package
Entertainment package (a last minute splurge, the HK makes a huge difference in the sound quality in the hall, er, car.)
There's more interesting tidbits to share, which I will try to do later, if anyone is interested.
Would love to hear the details you mentioned, albell.
BTW, the one i want is black with macadamia, showing that different strokes for different folks is always the case since most of the postings here bash the color (seems most bash the car itself, too, but oh well).
I've been out of town recently and I'm just catching up with this forum.
Thanks for surrendering! (Just kidding).
By the way, it might interest you to know that I have 3 kids of my own, and have been through the whole minivan/soccer/baseball/dance class...etc thing.
I still have an 11 year old at home, though the rest of my brood is older now, I still like driving minivans. I really don't care what other people think.
I, like you, would rather be driving some kind of serious sports car (and from time to time I have owned a number) but in the real world of family hauling, almost nothing beats a good minivan. Not a Windstar/Freestar or a Montana/Venture/Sillouhette.
An Odyssey/Sienna/Quest is what I'm talking about. They are surprisingly good.
And they have seating that separates the feuding kids so you don't have to hear-"he touched me!!!???!!!" while you're trying to enjoy the fall foliage.
Just took a weekend trip through New England in the Pacifica, and it was just terrific. This is a vehicle that loves to cruise long distance.
Interestingly, just the weekend before, I gave the Pacifica to my 20 yr old son to drive up to Binghamton, NY for the weekend (about a 3-4 hour drive each way) and he came back raving about it. He normally drives a BMW X3. He complained about the lack of power, but said he could forgive the lack of power for the tremendous tracking ability and surprisingly good handling of this 4800 pound machine. He gets it.
One of the more interesting aspects of my weekend visit to MB was the sales management and staff asking my opinion on how the R should be built and optioned. It seems that MB just "dumped" initial inventory into the market (maybe that's common, I don't know), and the sales staff said there didn't seem to be a lot of what they viewed as essential. I told them at minimum each car they order for inventory should have what other MB's of similar or higher price have standard -- the comfort package which privdes seat memory, steering column adjustment, auto dimming mirrors, etc.
I think MB made a mistake by not including what I consider essentials for a properly equipped luxury car. Then again, they have a habit of doing this (see M-Class introduction in 97.) The other error, IMO, is the lack of standard fog lights. Why should you have to pay for Xenons to get them. Your bad, MB.
As to pricing, given the room, drivetrains and the R's placing in the model lineup, I don't think it's priced wrong...higher than M Class, but more room and versatility for average user (better gas mileage, too), lower than E Wagon, but with a reduced level of finish and standard content. When MB concedes to market demand and adds content to the car (which they will, as they did with the ML),. then I think pricing will be in line. MB is not a "value" play in terms of getting more for your money. The value is in the overall package and durability -- if the quality is there. I think the engineering is excellent; we'll see aboyt reliability. I would welcome a lack of annoying nits that have cropped up in my E. They still can't get the sunroof to stay synchronized, for example.
Hope that helps.
Go for what you want.
just curious, what made you jump from E Wagon. We are in your situation (2000 MY E Wagon 4 Matic) but came back from dealer with the clear feeling that R had some ups (more space, newer interior etc.) vs. wagon but wagon also some ups (We still think that previous gen E-Wagon are the best looking vehicles) and ofcourse the trade in would seriously hurt.?
Can you please explain what was your reason for deciding to switch
For me, it came down to wanting more space and flexibility. I say wanting, rather than needing, because in most cases, the E wagon is fine for our family (2 boys, mom and me.) But we travel to the country just about each weekend (about 110 miles each way) and often stop to pick up a cousin or friend of one of the kids. The middle seat in the E's second row is becoming problematic as the kids grow. The rear facing 3rd row is not really an option for long trips,especially with cargo. It seems that we cart all of our belongings with us each weekend, in addition to doing our weekly shopping upstate. My wife also likes the higher seating position the R offers, and the kids like having their own personal space. So, in the end, it comes down to flexibility. And my sanity for 4+ hours each week.
I owned SUV's forever before switching to the E wagon. They are no longer an option for me...I don't like the tradeoffs between cargo and ride, and I've driven most of the offerings out there at one time or the other. I think the R is the best of all worlds, at least so far. Not perfect--the ride is NOT like the wagon, but it does ride and drive like a Benz. And that's what I want.
I know others have said in this and other boards that the R is just a fancy, expensive mini-van. Sorry, but if you like to drive and can appreciate the aspects that affect ride quality, then their is no comparison between the R and any minivan, at least for me. It's more like an S-wagon, with compromises.
I see that they re not selling well (930 in October). I know that I have dealers calling me still, following up on my initial inquiries. It seems that stock is growing. Deals are there, at least in NYC metro.
Hope this helps.
While they drive well and have gorgeous interiors, (I love my friends' allroads) Audi's have quality issues on par with MB at the least, and horrible resale and residual values.
Looks like the R350 is a few thousand less than a comparably equipped E350 wagon. If you go light on the options, even an R500 is close to the E wagon with AWD. I like to learn as much as I can before visiting a dealer and getting on the follow-up phone list. What are your opinions on the following:
-Is the V6 powerful enough for the R, or is the V8 definitely worth it? I have read positive reviews of the R350, but I like plenty of power.
-How is the handling of the R compared to the E-wagon? It is obviously bigger, but is it as "nimble" and "agile" as the commercials would have me think? I know it's not a sports car, but if the E is significantly more fun to drive, that's worth something to me.
-Is there decent space behind the third row (is there a storage well under that rear floor area - it's hard to tell from the photos, but judging by spec of 15 cubic feet, I am guessing not)?
-Are there car seat LATCH anchors in all the rear seats?
-Is that console between the second row seats removeable?
-Does the airmatic suspension make a significant difference? Can the standard suspension handle a decent load without sagging? I will have all the kids and their stuff on board frequently.
-Any early indications of quality problems?
I'd tend to wait until the new model year and see if the price comes down or they add some more standard features as someone mentioned previously, but the current lease deal looks good.
The R does not handle like the E wagon. That is not to say it handles poorly; it is just a different vehicle. Higher, heavier and longer. I thought it drove better than any SUV or minivan I have ever driven. But it is not a car. It is nimble and agile for its class.
I found the 350 engine to be more than adequate, but others have different opinions. I did not think the 500 is worth the premium, especially with a new V8 due soon. But of you're a power-hound, it might be a little pokey with the V6.
There are latch hook ups on the 2nd and 3rd row seats. The 2nd row console is removable. I also found the space behind the 3rd row to be ok. There is really not a storage well undeneath, but there is some space around the spare below the deck.
haven't heard much about quality issues...there are less than 2000 on the road at this point. I would look at the M-Class forums to get an idea, since the assembly is also done in Alabama.
There are discounts...every dealer that I spoke with in my research was willing to discount off of list. If you can find one that you like on the lot, I'd say you can get a good price.
Hope this helps.
Please give me your thoughts.
in my search for an R Class that was optioned the way I wnted, (fairly lighthly...stickered in the mid-50's) I found the inventory lacking, especially if you aren't found of black or silver. Most of the inventory in the northeast is way loaded 60k-plus or lacking in some needed feature (such as the comfort package.)
Good luck in your hunt.
"If you step into the R-Class, you see that individuals, with exception of front row, don't have enough flexibility or individual space. When you are sitting in the second or third row of the R-Class, you make a compromise. You aren't sitting comfortably."
The Boss at BMW: Q&A With Helmut Panke
What do y'all think? It looks pretty roomy in the photos, but I haven't been in one myself yet.
Anyway, I can't wait to see if their take on the R-Class segment is going to have a huge third-row seat. I seriously doubt it would. To get a vehicle the size of the R-Class with a larger third row would require a suspension way to stiff for a comfortable ride, especially since BMW feels that air suspension isn't right for their vehicles. We'll see.
Who really makes a third row seat that a normal sized adult male can sit in and be truly "comfortable"?
M
when is the new v8 coming out? wouldn't that make the resale on the present v8 pretty bad?
1. I would purchase the R500 because I like more power. I drove the 350 and the 500 has more punch
2.Fun car to drive amazing at how nimble this car is. You would not know you are driving a car that large it is amazing my wife gets mad because I drive too "aggresively"
3. Not a whole lotta room behind the third row. However is good enough to get a buggy of groceries in.. Very easy to fold down one of the rear seats which gives a whole lot more space.No storage well
4. There are latch anchors I think but I will recheck that for you (My wife drives the car)
5.The console is removeable or you can get the car without the console. However it is very nice to have the cupholders there.
6. The suspension is amazing you can physically feel the difference when you adjust the car. amazing there
7. Only problem I have had is a cracked windshield washer container or well. We will get that replaced shortly.
We have 3 small kids as well and we have been very pleased with this car. We traded in a YUKON XL and while we miss the trunk space we don't miss the drive and inconvience of the size of the truck. The car is more sporty and fun to drive than any SUV or MINI VAN. So far So Good. Let me know if you have any other questions. By the Way gas mileage is running about 14/20-22 depending on who's driving lol
New V8 R550 (382hp) for 2007. We may get a 335hp 4.6L V8 R450 also, not sure about that. There should be a R320 CDI for 2007. Will likely hurt resale of the "old" V8 models being sold now.
I hope that for 2007 Mercedes makes some of these packages standard, especially on the R550. The R has one too many option packages imo. Air suspension and a power liftgate should be stanard on the R550 for that kind of money, among other things.
M