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Comments
With its ugliness and quality problems, no wonder its not selling.
nice first and only post Mr. " I stole my screen name from a children's novel" What character was was Templeton? Oh yea.
Might I remind you that this is an owners forum as well. Didn't your mother teach you that if you cant say something nice it is better kept to ones self.
That is why there are other producers. Who is it that makes that sleek, stealthy, sexy, sporty, vehicle with the flowing lines, adjustable air suspension, ABS ESP ASR , standard all wheel drive, and all the most sophisticated navigation, audio, and comfort features? You know the one that has over 50 Gig of music storage and can play separate audio and video components simultaneously ....... Chevy Suburban, Lexus, Expedition, Navigator, Escalade?
Nope that would be the R Class. Think outside the box.
The goodies that you mentioned, I agree, they are great items. I also believe that it is a safe car. I like how you mentioned a sophisticated navigation; still not the best. Too bad every model you mentioned outsells the R Class. Heavy discount in its first year that the car debuts is not a good sign; especially for a Mercedes. Will Mercedes continue with it full five to seven year production? Its a huge loss to Mercedes.
As for quality, there must be a reason why Mercedes is ranked 26 in the JD power.
As to the quality issues, my R has had the least (none) issues of any of the 4 MB's I have bought (99-2004). Maybe its luck, but I do think that they have started turning things around, by virtue of reducing complexity and improving processes. Only time will tell.
As for R sales, I think the market timing was unfortunate in terms of the sentiment turning against large vehicles in general. But those of us who own one seem nearly unanimous in our ejoyement of the platypus (as we affectionately call ours.)
There is a plus to the Mercedes Navi system and that is the ability to upgrade info yourself and not having to go into the dealer and pay for the labor of a software upgrade. I thought I would rather have a touch screen until I drove the 07 S Class. I would love to have that control. Not at all like the BMW in the way you navigate thru screens quickly and intuitively. Having the additional NAVI DVD drive also affords the owner the option of using it as an 8 gig audio port. A dual layer DVD = 2 Ipod Nanos and at $3 a disc....... If you go to the European sites you can get hardware to drive your DVD screens as well ( but you did not hear it from me
As a consumer, the less Mercedes on the road the better. As a producer concerned with economies of scale and enlarging your demographic target, you are correct to some extent. Mercedes pulled the C230K. They have been known to cut a loss.
Lastly, as I have mentioned before, Mercedes could greatly increase their JD score by eliminating the free lifetime roadside assistance. For whatever the reasoning, if I happen to run over a nail and the certified Mercedes Tech comes out in his ML to put my spare on, it will count as a complaint. It is considered a warranty claim against the vehicle.
While we are aware that some third party companies, such as Vizualogic Mobile Entertainment
Systems, offer alternative retail-purchased, headrest mounted RSES for installation, please note
that the installation of such alternative systems into our M-Class, R-Class, or any M-B vehicle is
neither approved nor authorized by Mercedes-Benz. The installation of these alternate systems
into an M-Class or R-Class vehicle requires the removal of the original equipment headrests and
their replacement with non Mercedes-Benz headrests. The original equipment headrests are part
of and are designed to work in conjunction with the overall safety systems of the R-Class and MClass.
Removal of the headrest unit of these vehicles and their replacement with commercial
headrests that have not been tested and approved by the vehicle manufacturer in vehicle safety
compliance tests could compromise the vehicle’s safety performance and potentially take the
vehicles out of their manufacturer-certified configuration. The safety risks and potential liability
created by this activity are not covered by MBUSA’s indemnity obligation to its dealers with
respect to product claims.
Additionally, to the extent that the installation of non-approved systems requires electrical
connections or other work on the vehicle not approved by Mercedes-Benz, any vehicle
malfunctions arising from such installation will not be covered under the vehicle warranty. Any
such installation or resulting damage to the vehicle due to the installation will not be considered
authorized work, and will not be covered under warranty.
You may have received a letter and sales literature directly from Vizualogic where it promotes its
“All-in-One Headrest Monitor/DVD” system for M-Class/R-Class vehicles. Please note that
Vizualogic’s system is not approved for use in either M-Class or R-Class vehicles or any other
Mercedes-Benz vehicles and that its use of the Mercedes-Benz tradename and trademark and the
“Three-Pointed Star Within a Circle” trademark was not authorized by Mercedes-Benz and should
not be mistaken as any form of endorsement by Mercedes-Benz or authorization to install
Vizualogic’s product in Mercedes-Benz vehicles.
Mercedes demands a much higher level of safety and would not expext an owner to lift the armrest, fish out their Ipod while driving, and change the music.
The one in the Ford is so simple. I doubt if JD will have any functionality complaints on this device. So I guess the Ford is better.
TGIF, enjoy your weekends, burning the soapbox as you read.
Also, I bought this system and had it installed at a retailer recommended and used by MB Manhattan.
Enjoy your weekend, too.
I have seen the sandwich board display in the dealership and the detail department will even install the system.
Go figure?
Haha....the owners manual errrrr Novel is so thick now. Only 25% per page is info and not a warning or disclaimer.
My 72 SEL had a 30 page or so owners manual. Most of it was how to ship a vehicle by boat with air suspension.
I've had fun in the past writing some of those disclaimers, so I know what it's all about...making money for lawyers. Makes good kindling on a cold night, though. :P
The DVD will be a blessing on our upcoming 2500 mile jaunt to Wisconsin and back (as will the bucket seats and the 2nd row console.)
I'm confused here. JDP has access to look that type of MB data? I thought JDP was a survey of the onwers only type deal?
You drove the 2007 S-Class? What did you think?
M
It would no doubt help sales, but I don't see how it would help in the dependability ratings and especially their initial quality survey.
M
I did and you can too!
I love the systems. There was some reserve with the elongated dash on my part. That was before it all lit up. I am very old school. Semi circle Instrument clusters etc. I found it easy to navigate and full of features. I wish I had a card reader in my R. Just pop in a gig of whatever and download to system. The auto cruise set up is much different than the old system with the additional braking function. The night vision is much superior to the GM product and rear camera should eliminate those pesky parking problems (there are different settings for parallel parking and just backing up).
Pre-sales are plentiful. The new engine will be delayed due to the possibility of cutting into 550 sales that are doing so well.
Quick as well.
All this should be in a different thread.
Back to the R Class.
The free service ended in 04.
I can appreciate the BMW program and the fact that pads and rotors are covered is nice. Due to the new synthetic fluids and other factors, services are further between. Point being, they are less of a factor now. I know that individual dealers vary on price but I feel we are less than BMW on comparable service.
Remember, I am employed by a M-B dealer so my services are discounted as are the vehicles that I drive so I really won't go outside the brand.
Disclaimer: I have purchased 1 new vehicle (R Class) and 2 used vehicles(82 300SD;98 E320S) from the dealership in my 7 years of employment. I am not much of a trader.
Question: How much does an R Class weigh and how does that compare to the Lexus convertible? Secondly, how do their stopping distances compare?
Thats good to hear about the sales. The new engine you speak of, are you talking about the S450? It is delayed?
M
There are so many orders for the S550 that it would slow production and delivery of sold vehicles. As everyone knows, not all buyers want to order a vehicle. MB does not want to loose potential sales due to low inventory.
Did anyone see the SWB 220 chassis with the 350?
I think we saw 1.
Neet trick:
The difference between the GM night vision and MB is that there are infrared projectors in the headlamps which allow it to see hot AND cold objects (like a tree across the road OR an animal). Range is about 500 feet.
The rear view camera works great.
note: vehicle must be in drive for Night Vision Assistance vision to work. Why you ask. The unit can damage your vision so they figured there would be some idiot that would go and try to stare into the projectors :rolleyes:
M
No idea. :confuse: The date keeps getting pushed back. If I had to guess I would say 8 months, if it is produced at all.
I wanted to expand on the Distronic Plus....You CAN utilize it in stop and go traffic. The vehicle, as it slows, decreases the distance allowed automatically and comes to a stop. To start out again just tap the gas. It will perform an emergency stop.
disclaimer: Be aware that this in no way removes the driver from the responsibility of staying sober and awake.
It does not take into account an object that is not in motion. It will run into a wall so don't try. Option is $2850.00 and includes parking assist. It is not on the vehicle that is here. The MB rep stated that it would sell itself at any price after demonstrated.
I can see a R320CDI, R350, R450, and a top lux (only one or two options) R550.
The R550 would be a expected low-volume full-luxury model with the Panoramic Roof Package and AMG Sport Package being the only options. Everything else should be standard on the R550, just like for 2007 everything is standard on the top of the line S600. The R550 would be a 63-65K vehicle.
The R450 would have standard Airmatic, Trim Package, Comfort Package and Heating Package with the same base price as the current R500. Ok, maybe a minimal (like $500) price increase. I know this won't happen.
Then the R350 would of course see no price increase, but would include some standard features like heated seats and the Comfort Package.
The R320 CDI would be priced only 1K more than the R350 with the same standard equipment.
This may or may not work, but either way I think a R450 needs to stay the same price as the R500 and have more standard equipment. If it the R450 isn't going to have more standard equipment or the same standard equipment as the current R500 it should cost less than the current R500 and let the R550 take the place of the current R500. I'm sure MBUSA is coming up with a plan to re-launch the R-Class and shuffle around the equipment/prices etc. to get this thing selling. Some exit interviews of people who looked at, but didn't buy an R-Class would tell volumes I think.
M
So, if MSRP drops x amount then the certificate will be for x.
We are not sure about a diesel. It is still a maybe.
FYI I gave the highest marks except for the side and rear view from drivers seat.
I think they need to go back to MKTG101 and review the section on survey questionnaire length. Man it was thick. Does a truly satisfied customer with better things to do really want to fill out 8 pages worth of 1-10 scaled opinions?
"A good questionnaire is one which help directly achieve the research objectives, provides complete and accurate information; is easy for both interviewers and respondents to complete, is so designed as to make sound analysis and interpretation possible and is brief."
To achieve a 95% confidence level with +/- 5% error, you need 278 responses for a population of 1,000. I must wonder what the response rate will be with an 8 page questionnaire.
Also, (yawn) there is an entire page that asks if the vehicle is equipped with ? and your scaled preference on having it on the next vehicle AND if so how much would you pay for said option answered in an exact dollar value.
Yes, I left the dollar values blank (ADD). Simple Weighting?
1. Crawford, I. M. (1990) Marketing Research Centre for Agricultural Marketing Training in Eastern and Southern Africa. Harare Zimbabwe.
2. Sudman, S. and Bradburn, N. M. (1973), Asking Questions, pp. 208 - 28.
New price structure for the R? and the 320CDi motor? These are rumours I like to hear and that may certainly get me off the fence next fall.
Heated seats - come on - this is 2006 - should be standard. I don't know much about the navigation system, but I read a lot of displeasure with it.
Why no roof rails? Yes, I realize it has the holes for a racking system, but...
I've had MB wagons since the mid 80s and they are wonderful - they should have taken the "good" things about the wagon and made it bigger.
I would like a diesel engine, but I've lived without one for years. Another stupid MB move.
Thanks for everyone'e input - you're very helpful.
After driving the R now for two-plus months and nearly 3000 miles, I can say that I think its a better vehicle than the E. The ride (with the airmatic) is better, the space is better, and it is certainly more flexible in terms of accommodating my family. I could not be happier and have no regrets about moving out of the wagon. And it's only cost me about 3 mpg difference on the highway, which is outstanding in my opinion.
Your comments help tremendously, and will help me in moving on! Thanks.
I finally got to meet and speak with anothe R owner in the flesh this morning, outside my son's school. He had come out of an ML and was quite happy with his R, though less than pleased with the content and pricing. Seems to be a common complaint.
The big roof and optional panorama feature do do not lend themselves well to direct contact (although don't try to tell the Christmas tree guy and my wife :mad: ) and I came out of an E320S as well. I actually feel rails would detract from the sleek design and maybe others would see it as "wagon and mini vanish". This is a Euro touring vehicle
Cargo: 24 vs 43 with 5pass vs 4pass configuration.
Consider a GL? Seen it? There is one here at the tennis tournament.
I don't know if the MSRP will change or the option configuration. I will bet that JD dollar to a doughnut it won't be the same.
MB, I feel, does more R&D than all other makes. Therefore, secrecy is necessary. I have a lot of doubt as to MB ever bringing a vehicle to market as quickly as say the GT40. There are others that could. They may shroud the info longer than necessary. They probably loose out on those buyers that "may" wait for a launch if they had more info.
Dead horse says ouch.
I admit not all people want heated seats, but my point is that even the cheapest cars seem to have them.
http://www.mbusa.com/models/main.do?modelCode=R350
If you are a buyer then all the money is out there. There may or may not be a change for the 07's as far as equipment being standard.
MB Credit has a rep. for being VERY non-aggressive on lease payments. On the flip side, lease turn ins usually go to auction due to price to the dealer.
Be careful of independent lease companies offering low open ended leases. That is where mkt determines actual residual at the end of the lease and you pay difference. (read fine print)
gO FIGURE???? In the real world low residual --> high payment--> low buyout-->lower lease turn in purchase price. :confuse:
Even at $299 a month can't convince you to lease a $50,000 car. It doesn't get any better than that. The lowest I've seen in Southern California is $375. It was a two year lease with a one time payment of $9000.00. It did motivate my wife to look at it, but we would up leasing a BMW 750LI. My wife was displease with her 01 E320 station wagon, VERY UNHAPPY with 99 ML430, 97 C280 was lemon...
The low monthly lease payment even has me thinking of trading in my 05 Range Rover for the R350, but I love my Range Rover too much.
I'm still whining about the pricing of the car. Another thing I don't get is why would you build and market a car for 6 people and then make climate control for the extra people an option???? The 3-zone climate control should be standard. Even folks in southern CA would have to agree!
I saw an add for a Buick for under $30,000 last night and it has heated/cooled seats.
I'm disappointed to read that things may not change for the '07 model.
I'll probably end up with an R350, but since I'm not the only one complaining about price/content, I am hopeful things will change.