Mazdaspeed3 vs. VW V GTI vs. Civic Si



  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Amen. I always remind my fiancee, never leave anything in the car you can't afford to lose. My car has my iPod in it at work; stupid, vulnerable and yet I leave it every day. I come home and if I don't park in the garage that sucker comes into the house without fail
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    my buddies civic has a sort of contol module that renders the car useless, making any kind of 'stealing of parts' a long process.

    If i were a pro, i'd steal something more expensive!
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    Si (with about $25,000 of work done) stolen out of his drive way, with an alarm, engine imobilizer ... found 3 days later, stripped
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Yeah, tell me about it. That was 2 weeks after his daily driver was totaled from being hit by a drunk driver about bad luck.

    There was a disabled pick-up his room mate had parked in front of it to keep it safe, and the thiefs moved that to get to his!! The police told him the thiefs were probably eyeing him for a while. This was not a spur of the moment decision by any means.
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Member Posts: 690
    If anyone lives in an area within close proximity of a shipping port, the auto theft risk increases tenfold. I used to live in NJ - which has FIVE cities in the top ten list of car thefts. It was no coincidence that those cities were near either the Port of NY/NJ or the Delaware River Ports (Philadelphia/South Jersey).

    In most cases, the cars would be stolen and driven right into a shipping container for easy transport to overseas black markets...
  • carfanatic007carfanatic007 Member Posts: 267
    Honda owners would all purchase one. VW owners wouldn't need them, no one wants to steal a VW :)
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    And hondas are really easy to steal.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    and i say stealing is ghetto. :P
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Member Posts: 690
    VW owners wouldn't need them, no one wants to steal a VW

    May your state roadways be overrun with VWs flying the colors of the University of Florida... :shades:
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Funny, he lives on the Connecticut shore.
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Member Posts: 690
    Not according to him:

    #959 of 993 Re: Honda Civic Si feels like the best quality of all three [600kgolfgt] by carfanatic007 Apr 01, 2007 (2:33 pm)
    Reply | E-mail Msg
    Replying to: 600kgolfgt (Apr 01, 2007 1:29 pm)
    Hey, I gotta challenge for you. I live in Ohio. Lets take our cars to the track and settle this man to man. Stock to stock? What do you say! No street racing, only on a track. And no mods to your car. What about it?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    College perhaps?
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla VirginiaMember Posts: 707
    As a Gator who owns a 2006 VW GTI...

    ... I wholeheartedly agree with your idea!

  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Member Posts: 690
    As a Gator who owns a 2006 VW GTI...

    ... I wholeheartedly agree with your idea!

    As a Scarlet Knight (Rutgers), congratulations on your school's successes, and I hope my Alma Mater can eventually
    reach that goal... :shades:

    First, we have to go through the growing pains of making the transition from playing the Ivy League schools (and as the 8th oldest institution of learning in the US - that has been since the beginning of time) to playing more schools at the NCAA Division I level. Believe me, it hasn't been easy!!! :confuse:
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    ..regarding the C&D comparison article - I didn't study the article closely in depth (since I already had a good idea of who the winner would be if taken purely on performance) BUT.....

    ...I did note something interesting. It seemed as though the reviewers had some UNKIND things to say regarding the ride qualify of the GTI. I don't remember the exact verbiage (perhaps someone else can help me out) but I recall them remarking about the stiff ride in the GTI. Yet, no such comments regarding the Mazdaspeed3.

    I know that, a few months ago, some regulars in here were making assumptions regarding the anticipated ride quality of the Mazdaspeed3 PARTICULARLY in comparison to the GTI; opinions to the effect that the Speed3 would be overly 'harsh' in comparison.

    Yet, it seems as though the testers at C&D, after actually having extensive seat time in both the Speed3 and the GTI, felt the ride was better in the Speed3.

    Has anyone in here had EXTENSIVE seat time in both of these examples (hopefully over a variety of surfaces) to say which had a better ride?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    The Mazdaspeed3 rides like a skateboard. It's fun but that suspension is so tight that the car tends to skitter over bad pavement. Not so the GTI which is overly soft and quite compliant - to the point of making the car rather rolly-polly.

    GTI's got the softer ride by far. Better is a function of what you prefer.
  • stallionrestallionre Member Posts: 205
    I agree with that. A skateboard is exactly what it feels like. I like the GT feel better, rides so much smoother and nice.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    hey rorr, glad to see you are thinking of me. ;)

    I read the article in depth and i don't really recall any negative comments on the ride quality of the gti, just that the rear commodations did not impress.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630

    "I read the article in depth and i don't really recall any negative comments on the ride quality of the gti, just that the rear commodations did not impress."

    Funny, I'd forgotten the comments on rear accomodations.

    I dunno, eldaino; I could've sworn they had some comments regarding the ride quality of the GTI. I'll try to remember to take another look at my copy of C&D this evening.....
  • stallionrestallionre Member Posts: 205
    The other thing that I read about the GTI and GT ride was that it is a stiffer ride, like a sports car ride. Am I wrong? I love this ride and feel.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    what do you mean about the gt? The gti and the mazda 3 gt don't have really anything to do with eachother. The 3 they tested here was the mazdaspeed 3.

    Check the issue rorr and let us know what it says! I can't remember either!
  • stallionrestallionre Member Posts: 205
    Oops my bad. I think we got lost from the issue. I can't remember where we left off. I was comparing the Mazda "i" to the GT. My fault, I posted in the wrong thread.
  • d_hyperd_hyper Member Posts: 130
    I checked. It says "GTI has stiff legs" and "Bumps are pronounced". They also complained about mushy brakes and tight rear space, but other than that they liked it. Now, I understand Rabbit having stiff legs, but GTI?!
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Thanks d hyper; I forgot to check the article last night.

    Yeah, that's the gist of what I had remembered as well. Personally, I found it surprising that they commented on the stiffness of the GTI and the 'pronounced bump' sensation; particularly given the conventional wisdom that the GTI has a softer, more grown-up ride than the rest of that segment.

    I was also surprised that the Speed3 (over the same roads) DIDN'T get that sort of a comment on the ride.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    that is kinda weird...i've always heard (and felt) the opposite too!
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    They just didn't mention about the MS3's ride, &, along w/ the GTI & Si, all got a lower ride rating than the WRX.

    The GTI has stiffer ride than the Rabbit. The lowered GTI in Europe is even worse, according to the complains from Brits' magazines.

    Back in '04, I found the Mazda 3S w/ only 16"s already riding "concrete tire" like, plus the rebound motion was too quick to be relaxing. So I jumped into buying an '05 Focus 2.3 ST instead, & still found it... I plan to trade it in for an '07 Focus ST, which has its ride retuned better &, in '06, earned a RARE high ride rating from Consumer Reports' sporty-car tests! The '08 is domestic-ugly, while the next one is "007 handsome" -- a compact version of the next James Bond car.

    I believe that a regular Mazda3 can ride less nervously if the shocks are replaced w/ Gabriels for slower movements.

    Those of you who want a comfy ride should get the Rabbit, but better wait till the inefficient 5-cyl is replaced by the lag-free super/turbo-charged frugal 1.4.
  • stallionrestallionre Member Posts: 205
    I really think that the ride in the Mazda M3S GT, auto, is smooth and feels stiff, without that drag or stiff feeling if you know what I mean.

    I test drove many cars and I just don't like the feel, like I do with the Mazda 3 line.

    The rabbit does feels softer, however, it felt like it was going to lose control on hard braking and cornering.

    I agree with you about the inefficient 5-cyl engine. It also is more noisy than the Mazda 3 line with the 2.3L. Turbo just waste to much gas. The price on gas these days, forget turbo. ;)

    What really helps also, is having good tires and Minimum 17" rims. I have 4 cars with all different size tires and the cars that have 17" and higher, are a better ride and feel.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Actually, turbos can increase mileage if used correctly. Now the lowered mileage of the MS3 is related to many factors - but the most important is Mazda's ridiculously awful gearing. The car lacks an overdrive gear and everything else is spaced too closely together.

    VW seems to get it better with their gearing and their 2.0T. Though I still feel like the 6th gear isn't nearly tall enough.
  • stallionrestallionre Member Posts: 205
    Very true, However, most people who buy turbo, use it hard. I would if I had it. Why not? Most people have a heavy foot for the turbo cars and they handle well to that. I see your point about the MS3, however, the 07's GT have a 5 speed sport trans. The shifting is very smooth and quick. I have no lag at all.

    To me it feels like an Overdrive gear is there on the M3S, it is just not displayed on the shifter. But if you want that power, then you can use the Manual feature. That sure has ZOOM-ZOOM all over it. I sure feel the power. ;)
  • stallionrestallionre Member Posts: 205
    You know what helped a lot with my gas mileage? I have added the Cold Air Intake to my car as a dealer accessory. The total cost for this was $400.00, but well worth it for me. I am now getting 3 more MPG. True!! ;)
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    That is impressive. My gas mileage has jumped too but that's because I dumped my 06 330i 6MT for a 07 Cooper S. I went from 22 mpgs to 30 mpgs. If a CAI helps even more I'd be delighted!
  • stallionrestallionre Member Posts: 205
    Try it. It helped me. Before I bought the CAI, I researched it well to see what the advantages are. It states, that more air is brought into the motor, faster cooling, which in turns increases HP and uses less fuel. I believe that.

    Also the CAI that I bought uses a K&N washable air filter. Awesome!!
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "I am now getting 3 more MPG. True!!"

    Ummmm, you may also be getting more mileage because the engine wasn't broken in yet before you added the CAI. Also, the gas formulations were changed over VERY recently resulting in better mileage. I've noticed nearly 3 mpg better mileage over the last couple of tanks and my car is 7 years and 147k miles old.......and I didn't add a CAI.

    Are you aware of how BADLY every manufacturer would just LOVE to increase the fleet mileage of their vehicles by roughly 10% AND add hp at the same time? So, if a CAI REALLY does all that, why don't the manufacturer's put them in as standard equipment?
  • stallionrestallionre Member Posts: 205
    I do feel a difference before and after I added the CAI. The car is not broken in yet, that is true, but I heard when you are breaking in a car, your gas mileage decreases. So right now my car should not get the mileage that I am getting, especially in the cold weather, since the car uses more gas when it is cold.

    The dealers would like the extra $400 for the CAI, so for them to put these in every car, doesn't make sense for them, However, some cars already have them as stock. My friend bought the new Nissan SE-R and it had it. Also the Spec-V has them.

    I would say in about 3 years, maybe they will be stock, who knows.
  • carfanatic007carfanatic007 Member Posts: 267
    I think the only thing a CAI does is dramatically increase the noise volume in the car!
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    i don't think we are getting the 1.4. Ever.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    well, i've never felt that i was ever going to 'loose control' in the rabbit, granted it isn't the ultra handler like the mazda, but its very close behind. (2nd place in handling #'s in c/d comparo.)

    I lot of people complain about 5 cylinders, but its no turbo and really not so much loud as it is different sounding.

    After almost 16k in my rabbit, i can assure that this engine combined with the six speed auto is virtually silent on the freeway and while driving in the city. Hard acceleration=more noise, but which engine is not without that?

    I would hardly call the 2.5 insufficient. Next year the hp is getting bumped up to 170, and torque 177.

    It pretty much destroys anything in its class, at least on paper. (now if it could only go on a diet! :blush: ) but i don't mind the a great secure feeling.

    Stallionaire i'm suprised at your ideas of 17's and higher giving a 'better' ride. Do you mean a sportier feeling? Because bigger rims means lower-profile tires=rougher ride, even though it usually lends to better handling.

    SO you got the cooper huh blue guy? You liking it? What color? OH and congrats! :)
  • vvileyvviley Member Posts: 46
    K&N has some dyno runs that show _some_ HP gains by adding low-impedance/CAI. I suggest browsing around the site and taking a look-see.
  • stallionrestallionre Member Posts: 205

    I agree with your ideas.

    Let me be clear about the larger tire size. I feel that not only the larger tires are a sportier ride, but also for a stronger feel in the steering wheel, like the tires and hugged to the pavement, if that make any sense. I don't know how else to describe it. I feel that I have more control, stability and yes even a harsher ride with larger tires. Actually they sound kind of cool driving at high speeds. ;)
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    ah ok. I figured you meant 'better ride' by meaning a sportier, better handling ride.

    I'm getting some 17's or 18's for my bunny soon, with more aggressive tires. That'll be fun.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    After two cars in a row with 18s I'll do my best from now on to get 17s.
  • stallionrestallionre Member Posts: 205
    You read my mind about the handling. :shades:

    That should be fun. Let me know what you get and how you like the ride.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAMember Posts: 13,087
    VW seems to get it better with their gearing and their 2.0T. Though I still feel like the 6th gear isn't nearly tall enough.

    Yes, I have to agree with you 100% there, why didn't they make the 6th gear really high/tall. Okay, its a "sports" car and has 5 close-ratio gears, fine! But to make the 6th gear so close to the ratio of the 5th, is ridiculous.

    Only benefit..... you can go up the grapevine or any other mountain just fine in 6th and never need to shift as long as your going over 60 MPH.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAMember Posts: 13,087
    The mini Cooper S is big enough for ya?
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Yep, fits nicely. Even my six-two bro-in-law loves driving it. If it were RWD it would be near perfect.

    Still I can live with it for a few years. When the wife gets pregnant, I'll sell it off and a family car like a 335i sedan or M3 sedan.
  • stallionrestallionre Member Posts: 205

    Build Quality -
    Both cars seem pretty even when looking at the build quality. Fit and finish were excellent and the VW appears to have only a slight edge.

    Ride Quality -
    Both cars offer very good Ride quality. Some would say that the VW is more refined, and that may be true to an extent but I noticed that at moderate speeds on rough roads the VW felt less controlled and more bouncy. This is due to increased weight of the VW. The syspension on the 3 reacted a little faster and with less bounce. (Note: both cars were driven on the same roads, Delaers about 3/4 mile apart).

    Road noise -
    This is the one area where the rabbit had an edge over the 3. The interior noise is less in the VW as compared to the 3. Note: The 2007 Mazda 3 has additonal dampning material added and is considered much quieter that earlier years.

    Driving Dynamics -
    The steering response of the Mazda 3 felt much more positive than the VW and with far less body roll. I found the VW steering to require more effort to achieve the same result. The Braking of the 3 was far superior to the VW. Where the 3 has a nice even progression and control. The VW felt mushy and slower to respond.

    Cornering / Handling -
    There really is no comparison here. The Mazda 3 corners and responds to driver input so much better than the VW, and every other FWD C-segment car (Civic, Corolla, Sentra, Focus, etc). I have acutally driven all of them and can safely say that the Mazda 3 is the best handling 4 door C-segment car period. Note: The Mini Cooper is a subcompact W/ 2 doors and is not considered a C-segment car, thus it is excluded.

    Interior -
    Both cars have very good interiors. As far as materials quality is concerned I would give an edge to the VW, particualarly the GTI. When it comes to appearance I personally prefered the look of the 3. It has a clean modern vibe to it that suits the exterior of the car well.
    Inerior Comfort / Space -
    This is where I had a problem with the VW. While I liked the power of the GTI. I could not get comfortable in the seats. They are too tightly bolstered and would probably be fine for a 150lb person. For me at 5'10 and 200 lbs, well forget about it. The Rabbit has a nice seat that is more comforable and fit my proprtions better. The Mazda 3 on the other hand has an excellent seat and appears to have been designed with long haul comfort. Layout of controls is similar in both cars and I would call that an even draw. The amount of usable space in the 3 hatchback is considerably larger than the VW. There is probably another 16-20" of additional space behind the rear seats. So if you plan on using this area then the 3 gets a nod for space.
    Note: The Mazda 3 is almost a foot longer than the VW and yet it is 350-400 lbs lighter.

    Sound System / Nav -
    If you want a pretty decent factory sound system the Bose Audio option on the 3 is the way to go. The sound is smooth and I found it the be fairly balanced considering the little subwoofer under the front seat. The VW on the other hand has a horrible head unit. I don't know what VW was thinking when it came to the stereo. It is very harsh and employs soft clipping that gets worse as the volume is increased. Also the speaker placemet is bad where the main drive units are placed in the middle of the front doors. Some other factors to consider: The only way to get audiophile sound in this car is to replace the head unit, yes it is that bad. So in my opinion getting the factory Nav in the GTI is a waste fo money. Where on the 3 you can keep the factory head unit and using a high quailty impedance adators add separate amplifiers and quality speakers. Another plus for the 3 is that the Navagation system is separate from the audio system.

    Maintainence / Reliability -
    This is what scares me about the VW. They have a bad reputaion for reliability of particular concern being electrical problems. Where VW uses a Bosch ECU and many other electrical componets. The Mazda 3 utilizes a Denso ECU and Hitachi electrical componets. Note: Toyota aslo uses Deno and Hitachi. The long term mainatince schedule for the the VW is also much greater than that of the Mazda, with the GTI being even worse. The GTi uses a timing belt that has to be replaced at 60k - 80k miles. I went further than that and did a fair amount of internet research. The VW Rabbit and GTI have had numerous problems, too may to tell and basically the main reason I recended my offer to the dealer. While the Mazda 3 is not perfect it has a far greater track record and very good waranty ratings.

    Summary -
    Everybody that their own unique requirements that they try to meet in making a car purchase decision. When comparing the 2007 Mazda 3 to the VW Rabbit the clear winner in
    most catgories is the Mazda 3. I was looking for a cool comuter car (automatic) that both myself and my wife could drive. Since I already have a kick-[non-permissible content removed] sports car I didn't feel that I had make a purchasing decision based soley on performance but the car as whole. After almost a year of crawling over almost every new car out there to the point of annoying numerous sales people, (about 30 or more test drives). I came to my own conclusion that the 2007 Mazda 3 is best C-segment car currently available. It simply does so many things better than the competition... :) :shades:
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Honda Si: $23k

    Mazda3 s: $21k

    The Honda Si and 3s had similar power. The Si might've been a little stronger, but it was very close.

    Back seat space was about the same (To small for my 6'+ behind!)

    Trunk was bigger in Civic.

    Civic guages not as bad as I thought they'd be. I adjusted quickly. The interior is good, but the Mazda's is better.

    The real difference between the two cars was their attitudes.

    The Mazda was confident, with a good mix of feedback and refinement.

    The Honda was WAY TOO LOUD! I was like "Why are you yelling at me?" Even the turn signals were loud! Zero sound-dampening. They didn't even try.

    The Scion tC was Lexus-quiet in comparison. The Mazda was on the right side of the line.

    Great seats in the Si, too! Mazda seats were good.

    If the Honda knocked off about 75% of the racket, and offered a similar price, I'd go that way. But that was ridiculous, and more expensive. :sick: The Mazda just does everything well, and doesn't p&%$ you off, ever.

    I'd test the MazdaSpeed, but I'm, not interested in the wagonoid style. I'm sure the MazdaSpeed is superior, if you go for wagonoids.

    Good bye....for now. :blush:

  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    this is more mazda3 vs rabbit than anything else. BUt i see you put it where it belonged!

    THe steering ratio is quicker in the 3 than the rabbit. But the steering feels smoother on the bunny. Not to say it isn't smooth on the 3, but its just more so on the bunny, having the advantage with an electro mechanical setup, and one of the best ones out there right now. Still no good ole rack and pinion, but you get my drift.
  • stallionrestallionre Member Posts: 205
    ;) I got your drift. I wanted to cover all the bases.
    I agree that the 3 does have a quicker steering ratio. Funny how the ratio can be but yet feel different from the bunny and the 3. I just love the stiffer, rougher feel. It must be that sports car in my blood that I love so much.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAMember Posts: 13,087
    If your saying the 150 HP +- Mazda is just as powerful or near as powerful as the almost 200 HP Civic SI, then you need to just buy a Geo Metro.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
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