No amount of maintenance can compsensate for the overt ineptitude of VW's engineers.
Bad coils - nobody can compensate for that. Bad AC - again, VW's fault Poor electronics - nope, a mechanic is no help on that. Cheap interior materials that break - again, not gonna be a bit of difference how good you are with a wrench. Bad ABS - recalled.
They are avoidable by simply not buying any car in their first few model years. I wait until the end (or near the end) of the production cycle when most of the bugs have been worked out (that's why 90% of the cars that I've owned have been trouble free). And I also stay away from lease-backs because chances are the previous driver basically trashed the car.
The majority of buyers don't do that - primarily because of their desire to feed their ego and/or self-esteem by having the "latest and greatest" or becoming the "first kid on the block" to have particular features in a car, etc.
The engineering isn't the problem - it's the integration of the different components from different suppliers that is the main problem (a manufacturing process problem). Very few (if any) manufacturers make their own parts - the work is farmed out to different vendors/suppliers. Some manufacturers are better at selecting vendors than others - and that has been VW's achilles heel for as long as I've driven them.
Coming from a mechanical background, I make it a habit of inspecting and troubleshooting my vehicles on almost a daily basis - and perform preventive maintenance - another contributing factor to the reliability of vehicles I've owned.
For example, on the VW's that I've owned:
Bad Coils - Jettas - 2003 (no), 1997 (yes - replaced ignition coil @ 100,000 miles). Bad AC - 1975 Scirocco - no A/C, 1987 Golf GT (replaced compressor at 300,000 miles), 1997 Jetta Trek (original A/C - no problems @ 137,000 miles), 2003 Wolfsburg Jetta (original A/C - no problems).
They are avoidable by simply not buying any car in their first few model years. I wait until the end (or near the end) of the production cycle when most of the bugs have been worked out (that's why 90% of the cars that I've owned have been trouble free). And I also stay away from lease-backs because chances are the previous driver basically trashed the car.
Mine was a 2001. That's the 3rd model year in the US for the MrkIV Jetta.
The majority of buyers don't do that - primarily because of their desire to feed their ego and/or self-esteem by having the "latest and greatest" or becoming the "first kid on the block" to have particular features in a car, etc.
By June 2001 the Jetta IV was about to enter year 4 (month and a half later the 2002s popped up). They were ubiquitous by then. So cal must be the top destination spot for Jettas. And spoiled girls from TJ are all over San Diego driving them too.
Some manufacturers are better at selecting vendors than others - and that has been VW's achilles heel for as long as I've driven them.
Probably a german car maker problem as I've had issues with BMWs and the situation: "oh, that vendor had a bad batch."
The engineering isn't the problem - it's the integration of the different components from different suppliers that is the main problem (a manufacturing process problem). Very few (if any) manufacturers make their own parts - the work is farmed out to different vendors/suppliers. Some manufacturers are better at selecting vendors than others - and that has been VW's achilles heel for as long as I've driven them.
Integration of parts from different manufacturers is just as much engineering as design is. I work as an engineer. This is what I do on a daily basis. With the history that VW has with reliability, you would think that someone would change vendors. And when you notice that your coils are going bad at an alarming rate, you contact the vendor, find the root cause failure, and correct the problem. There is no excuse to have that happening years into the production cycle. The mazda3 had a poor ac system when first released. As a result, the first 4-6 months of production had crappy ac. But they fixed it. VW works with its vendors. If they cant find and diagnose the problems or if they stay with the same vendor after repeated failures, its just as much their fault as it is the vendors.
Every car manufacturer has a fleet of industrial, mechanical, and electrical engineers that work to make sure the manufacturing of vehicles goes as it should. These people take part in the design process to say what is and is not feasible. They are the ones that tell designers that "yeah that looks nice, but its going to: break easily, cost too much, ect." If there are production faults, these are the people working on solutions. They dont just hand the problem to the suppliers and say fix it. Its obvious by VW's perpetually low reliability scores that this group of people is below industry standards. Suppliers are only a small part of the problem.
The supply chain process IS a part of the total engineering process - didn't you get the memo? By the way, if VW had perpetually low reliability scores, that would imply a > 50% vehicle failure rate, wouldn't it. The fact that you have to rely on exaggeration to prove your point says that you have a complete hatred and bias against VW. So if that is the case, why waste your time in a VW forum?
...Just a thought
Like I said before - the true essence of vehicle ownership isn't for the faint of heart. You either deal with it like a man, or sit there and whine about it. The fact that my VWs have been reliable is a product of a careful, rational, analytical thought process that I use in purchasing my vehicle (like purchasing a car at or near the end of a model year), instead of the emotional, "gotta-have the latest and greatest now" instant gratification trend that has permeated the buying public over the last 20 years or so. Call me a dinosaur, call me a throwback (just don't call me late for dinner) - but I call them as I see them. The majority of drivers aren't as inclined to spend the time inspecting, troubleshooting, or properly maintaining their vehicles as they are in enhancing their ego or image. As far as ego or image is concerned, I personally don't give a rat's (fill in the blank) what people think of me (as you probably have guessed, I'm definitely NOT politically correct - and proud of it!!!). But I digress.
Mazdas are solid, well-engineered cars. So I wish you many happy miles with them.
I'll keep driving my VWs, and use my engineering and mechanical background to keep them reliably on the road, thank you..
low is a subjective word. VW is perpetually low in terms of always being in the lower half of automobile manufacturers in terms of reliability. im not quite sure where you got the >50% part.
i think it is great that you can maintain your cars so well. i think we could all learn a lesson from your meticulous care. my point though is with a new car you shouldn't need to pamper it for it to be reliable. given normal use and regular service, it should be able to run virtually care free. you cant say that faulty ignition coils are a product of improper care.
and there is something to be said about buying cars early in the development cycle. cars at the end of their run are generally grossly outdated. take in point the current golf. it looks old and outdated and its performance puts it near the bottom of the class. why purchase that when i can buy something that looks nicer and has more features. a new car shouldn't be that unreliable but if something does go wrong, there is a warranty to cover it and (at least in the case of mazda) i get a free loner while it is getting repaired.
So if that is the case, why waste your time in a VW forum
its a mazda forum just as much as it is a VW forum.
> and there is something to be said about buying cars early in the development cycle
I guess you and I have different priorities.
BTW - The VW dealership I go to not only gives free loaners to their customers while their car is getting repaired, but they also have a shuttle service to take customers to work and pick them up from work. Like every other manufacturer, this service varies from dealer to dealer.
mdaffron - Don't take my capitalization of some words as anger or flying off the handle - I use capitalization for emphasis ONLY...
It was your self-censoring that made me worry about your stability.
BTW, I do have to agree that VW seems very slow on the uptake when it comes to problems. You yourself admitted the '97s had coil problems -- well, the 2001s did too. And when owners of 2001 Jettas and Audis experienced this problem (which was very noticeable since it meant the car shut down on the highway or wouldn't start in the driveway), they'd only replace one coil at a time as they failed instead of admitting the problem and replacing them all at once. This resulted in many owners, including a really good friend of mine who owned a 2001 Jetta GLS 1.8T, having to have their less-than-one-year-old cars towed back to the dealership three more times as each coil failed.
These cars, including Jettas, New Beetles, Golfs and a bunch of Audis, also had windows with plastic internal parts that failed, sending them crashing down into the door -- this problem has been plaguing VW and Audi owners for almost a decade. I have read dozens upon dozens of complaints about that problem right here at Edmunds over the five years I've been a Town Hall member, on models going as far back as 1996.
In contrast, my 2000 Mazda Protege ES only had one recall during the entire five years I owned it -- for the coil pack, ironically. However, no one on the very active Protege discussion here at Edmunds ever had their coil fail, and many of us asked what the problem with the original one was -- and we never found out, nor did any of us notice any difference in our engines after having the new part installed. Mazda apparently did a pro-active recall before any problems occurred.
VW, however, waited until its coil-pack problem neared class-action status before doing anything about it -- and never really came clean about it either, leaving many owners feeling like the manufacturer of their car was dishonest, leaving them high and dry. Reading the Jetta-Problems & Solutions discussion from early 2001 through early 2003 was about as gut-wrenching as sitting in on a divorce court. In fact, I just stopped by that discussion, and they're still talking about electrical problems, check engine lights and failed window regulators. One guy said he's at his wit's end, having replaced the same window regulator three times and now it's failed again. Let me ask you, how long has VW been building cars? Really, how complicated is it to build a reliable window regulator? That seems to be something Volkswagen would have a handle on (pun intended) by now.
And by the way, a lot of those owners claim to be just as meticulous as you are when it comes to maintenance and TLC.
Really, go read the last 10 or 20 posts in that discussion. I'm seeing a lot of the same problems, and a lot of repeats of those same problems. And in many, if not most, cases, these aren't new-off-the-lot bugs -- these guys are replacing things three and four times on cars that are only two or three years old.
> Really, how complicated is it to build a reliable window regulator? That seems to be something Volkswagen would have a handle on (pun intended) by now.
The decision to use plastic parts for the window regulator was a bean-counter move (not an engineering one) - people don't realize that bean counters and engineers clash many times over during the engineering/manufacturing process - the engineers want to use the best technologies and strongest materials while the bean counters tend to look for the cheapest way out that doesn't affect the bottom line. A prime example of this was during the 1987-1988 model year - when they replaced the super-reliable electro/mechanical CIS fuel injection system with a fully electronic fuel injection system (my old 624,000-mile 1987 Golf GT had the original CIS fuel injection system in perfect working condition - never had any problems with it whatsoever). The switch didn't change or enhance the cars performance - it was just a move by the bean counters to save costs (sure, the CIS system was expensive, but rarely broke down - so I fail to see the logic in that move).
> And by the way, a lot of those owners claim to be just as meticulous as you are when it comes to maintenance and TLC.
The only diffrerence is that these owners have VWs from 1999 through early 2003. My 2003 Jetta has a manufacturer's date of August 2003 - after they updated the window regulator and coil packs. And they are not as thorough in researching the history of problems and complaints of those earlier Mk4 VW as I am - a discipline that I learned as an aircraft mechanic in the Air Force (which is why I'm still alive today after flying many missions on planes that I have maintained). :shades:
Why the endless back and forth on.......reliability? Do you think they overanalyze cupholder placement in the Mustang vs. GTO thread? No. Do you think they bicker about stereo speaker placement in the various hybrid threads? Uh, nope. Debate carpet quality in the F150 vs. Dodge Ram thread? Get real.
C'mon guys; where's all the hypothetical talk about what the two cars are all about: performance, style, and utility at a cheap price. Why in the heck you guys are fixated on window regulators is beyond me.....
Before you start yelling, please read the following:
"2006 Mazdaspeed3 vs. 2006 VW V GTI"
For those of you that don't know, this is the subject of this thread. I understand this is hard to fathom, since 95% of the posts on the past 7 pages don't have jack to do with this topic. I thought maybe I'd get some good information here, but all I got were some egos and rambling.
I would post a link to a good source for info on the Mazdaspeed 3, but apparently, it's not allowed. For the record, I own an '05 Mazda 3 5-door and it has been an outstanding car so far. Very chuckable, a delight to the senses and the pocketbook. I can't take credit for it, but "fast and frugal" sums it up very well.
I also have driven a few Volkswagens in my day, and they are well-built and fun to drive in my experience. The A3 with the DSG and quattro is calling my name.
If you want to respond to this, feel free, but I won't be back. This is just my plea for the good of those poor suckers that come to this thread after I do. Maybe there will be some redeeming info here for them.
Otherwise, please retitle this thread "Mindless and Pointless VW vs. Mazda Discussion". Do it for the children!
Keep up the good work, Sylvia. Maybe these morons will start listening to you.
"I would post a link to a good source for info on the Mazdaspeed 3..."
Good lord, man. Why bother gritching about the derth of hard core info on these two cars in this thread, and yet, when you have some info that COULD be shared, you don't? Maybe the reason why there's been so little discussion about the cars in question is because we don't KNOW much about them? Nature abhors a vacuum, which is why all the other stuff gets discussed.
I know I whined a bit about the direction the thread was going but I understood that the reason the two main participants weren't talking hard facts was because they didn't have access to many. And neither did I which is why I couldn't contribute.
But apparently you DO have at least SOME hardcore knowledge about at least the Mazdaspeed3. Well? What's the scoop? Or is this supposed to just be a one-way street?
"I personally think this rule is counterproductive and probably one of the reasons there is a lack of good information here."
Probably so, but they've got reasons for their rules and since we're all playing in THEIR sandbox, we have to adhere to their rules.
So......being the lazy s.o.b. that I am :shades: , any definite news of ANY sort about the Mzdspd3? Suspension changes, equipment levels, anticipated price, maybe a release date? Or, is everything simply unconfirmed rumors at this point? :confuse:
Mazda engineers have been spotted around Germany 's Nürburgring race track with an enhanced version of their Mazda3 - an early prototype for the MazdaSpeed3. It appears that this prototype has a larger, more aggressive exhaust tip, but the real story is found up front.
The large makeshift hood scoop is clear proof that something special has been added to the engine - most likely a turbocharger given the recently turbocharged MazdaSpeed6. The MazdaSpeed6 turbocharges the 2.3-liter four-cylinder, resulting in 274 hp and 280 lb-ft of torque, which necessitated a switch to an AWD drivetrain. Given its place in Mazda's pecking order, it would seem likely that this Mazda3 prototype has a turbocharged version of the 2.0-liter engine, putting horsepower at somewhere near the 235 range. With such power levels, a MazdaSpeed3 version would obviously benefit from all- wheel traction, but could also conceivably remain a front-driver.
We expect that more advanced MazdaSpeed3 prototypes will display revised sheetmetal, with a more aggressive front fascia and a properly integrated hood bulge to accommodate the turbocharger
Hopefully they do a good job with the scoop. Getting it wrong is a quick way to ruin a good design.
Those are not the standard calipers, or wheels/tires. Also, exhaust is noticeably larger, and that might be a front lip diffuser under the front fascia.
Well, wheels/tires decisions are something which could change a time or two between now and intro, but it is unlikely that they would be running a mule around with beefier brakes unless they meant them for production. But the knowledge that the calipers are beefed up leads me to good thoughts in regards to suspension upgrades. Any ideas/specific rumors floating around about suspension changes?
Not wild about the noticeably larger exhaust (is a loud 4-banger really a good thing?) but I'll attempt to withhold judgement until I can actually hear one in person.
Just for clarification, my post #127 included a not-so vague reference to another forum where there is a lot of good information and it was deleted. Those are the rules, but I think Edmunds' forums will never be the cream of the crop as long as this particular rule is in place.
Good luck having a quality forum where the free flow of information is suppressed.
My first car was a VW. Ever since I was 9 or 10 I wanted a GTI and now as soon as I get in line ready to buy the '06 GTI, Mazda has to go and do this. I'm also a long time Mazda owner/follower. Mazda has always had a weird philosophy. They make a great product, but some cars could be so much more. I drove the 3 when it came out. The 2.3 felt just like the 1.8 in my '99 Protege', a dog at lower rpm. So I passed on it. Now, Mazda FINALLY sacks up. The GTI is still No. 1 on my list, but if it disappoints it will be a short drive to the Mazda dealer. When in 2006 are we supposed to see this thing?
Does anyone know if the 5-door and the 3-door will be available in the US?
From published information in the order system, there will be both 2-door and 4-door GTIs, and given the analogue to the Jetta, also a 4-door Golf 2.0TFSI. The GTIs will arrive approximately in February, the Golfs a couple of months later.
You can test-drive the engine and the DSG now in the A3, or in a little while in the Jetta GLI.
My oh my, that car must fly. Torque steer problems?
250hp with just a chip/re-map (a few $100) is what seems to be typical for this engine (there are quite a number of chip manufacturers to choose from).
I guess you would have to get used to the front tires spinning a lot, or be gentle on the gas. Torque steer, though, seems to be more or less non-existing: basically, no one has reported any yet, that I am aware of.
Still not sure what I will get. If I apply my own >~180hp *(actual weight/ 3000 lbs) rule, I should wait for AWD - but who knows when or if we will ever get it in the US on either the Golf/GTI or 2.0TFSI A3?
The scanned memo on www.mk5gti.com indicates that the GTI won't comply with California emissions standards and hence won't be immediately available in those states (including my home state of Massachusetts) immediately.
The MazdaSpeed3 looks more promising, if it has the same (detuned?) engine as the MazdaSpeed6. Triplezoom writes that the MazdaSpeed6 is certified as a SULEV vehicle.
Does this mean the MazdaSpeed3 may also be a SULEV vehicle in North America?
I am pretty certain that refers to the 2005.5/2006 Mk4 GTI - the 1.8T model which is being sold until the Mk5 arrives early next year. Same is true for the old 2l normally aspirated engine. It would have been too costly for VW to re-certify these engines for all states, given the low sales volume of the Golf in general, and of an outgoing model, in particular.
The 2.0TFSI is already certified in the Jetta GLI and in the Audi A3 and A4. It is a very clean engine - there is no problem getting it certified in all states.
The VW - GTi - thought a nice car lacks the interior trim/looks. It lacks the extra 2 doors. (though the car overall looks decent, the front is SAME OLD - ugly head lights - just me!) I frankly don't really care about the extra horses it packs - in this freakin traffic, can't go over 45-60 anyways. when I am on the back country roads, the Mazda sp23 packs enough punch to put a smile on my face. that's all that matters
The VW - GTi - thought a nice car lacks the interior trim/looks. It lacks the extra 2 doors. (though the car overall looks decent, the front is SAME OLD - ugly head lights - just me!) I frankly don't really care about the extra horses it packs - in this freakin traffic, can't go over 45-60 anyways. when I am on the back country roads, the Mazda sp23 packs enough punch to put a smile on my face. that's all that matters
Let me try to make sense out of this so I can respond. - interior: WV/Audi interiors are typically rated highest in their class - doors: how many do you want? 7? This is not a minivan. It comes in 3-door and 5-door varieties - also in the US, as per Len Hunt. - speed: either you need the power, or you don't. If not, the Golf is an option. If you like power to be available right here right now, even in rare circumstances, the incredibly low rpm torque of the GTI 2.0TFSI should win you over, any time.
For more information you can go to the related Edmunds forum called Future Mazdaspeed3. It provides an excellent article by Edmunds (post #7)and a comparison with some competitors (post #19) including the GTI.
I agree with blueguydotcom that the pricing could start around U$23K.
Some of this speculation may be lifted when the model is shown in Frankfurt this September.
It seems that its sibling, the Jetta GLI to be released this month, goes for ~$25-26K in DSG/package 1 version. I would assume the GTI to be $1K to $2K cheaper. Manual transmission and base version are less expensive, yet. So, I expect a $22K to $27K range in street prices, depending on options. Another price comparison point is the Audi A3.
Stunning! 10 different engines (including diesels) ranging from 75 to 250 hp for the Golf model range. And to top it all off, there are rumours of a Golf R36 with 300hp destined for the US. As to price, it also seems astronomic at EU$32+ (is that close to U$35?) for the R32.
I just checked the currency conversion and the price of the Golf R32 is indeed astronomic at EU$32,200 (works out to close to U$40,000!) Hopefully, the future Mazdaspeed 3 will be far less than that!
I just checked the currency conversion and the price of the Golf R32 is indeed astronomic at EU$32,200 (works out to close to U$40,000!) Hopefully, the future Mazdaspeed 3 will be far less than that!
However, we all know that straight currency conversions are a very poor indicator of actual prices in the US, in particular, with the Euro close to an all time high.
From what I hear, most people predict an R36 (not R32) in the US, with 280 to 300 hp.
Meanwhile, until there is an R36 or a quattro 2.0TFSI A3, the 4-door MKV GTI seems like a good deal to me.
Anyone interested in buying either? Go for the GTI, estimated prices in the UK are around £25,000!!! The GTI is £20,000, the power of the GTI should be enough to meet most peoples needs and it has unique styling featues that were first introduced in the original GTI from 30 years ago!
Comments
Bad coils - nobody can compensate for that.
Bad AC - again, VW's fault
Poor electronics - nope, a mechanic is no help on that.
Cheap interior materials that break - again, not gonna be a bit of difference how good you are with a wrench.
Bad ABS - recalled.
Those are factory faults and unavoidable.
The majority of buyers don't do that - primarily because of their desire to feed their ego and/or self-esteem by having the "latest and greatest" or becoming the "first kid on the block" to have particular features in a car, etc.
The engineering isn't the problem - it's the integration of the different components from different suppliers that is the main problem (a manufacturing process problem). Very few (if any) manufacturers make their own parts - the work is farmed out to different vendors/suppliers. Some manufacturers are better at selecting vendors than others - and that has been VW's achilles heel for as long as I've driven them.
Coming from a mechanical background, I make it a habit of inspecting and troubleshooting my vehicles on almost a daily basis - and perform preventive maintenance - another contributing factor to the reliability of vehicles I've owned.
For example, on the VW's that I've owned:
Bad Coils - Jettas - 2003 (no), 1997 (yes - replaced ignition coil @ 100,000 miles).
Bad AC - 1975 Scirocco - no A/C, 1987 Golf GT (replaced compressor at 300,000 miles), 1997 Jetta Trek (original A/C - no problems @ 137,000 miles), 2003 Wolfsburg Jetta (original A/C - no problems).
Poor electronics - 1975 Scirocco (replaced wiring harness), 1987 Golf GT - (replaced alternator @ 190,000 miles, replaced original starter @ 175,000 miles, 1997 Jetta Trek - (replaced driver's door interior light switch @ 130,000 miles), 2003 Jetta (no problems to date).
Cheap interior materials - 1975 Scirocco (yes), 1987 Golf GT (yes), 1997 Jetta (no), 2003 Jetta (no)
Bad ABS - 2003 (the only VW I've owned with ABS) - no problems to date.
Overt ineptitude of VW engineers would not be an accurate statement - overt ineptitude of the manufacturing process would be more accurate.
Mine was a 2001. That's the 3rd model year in the US for the MrkIV Jetta.
The majority of buyers don't do that - primarily because of their desire to feed their ego and/or self-esteem by having the "latest and greatest" or becoming the "first kid on the block" to have particular features in a car, etc.
By June 2001 the Jetta IV was about to enter year 4 (month and a half later the 2002s popped up). They were ubiquitous by then. So cal must be the top destination spot for Jettas. And spoiled girls from TJ are all over San Diego driving them too.
Some manufacturers are better at selecting vendors than others - and that has been VW's achilles heel for as long as I've driven them.
Probably a german car maker problem as I've had issues with BMWs and the situation: "oh, that vendor had a bad batch."
Probably a standard service-department phrase in every German-manufactured car dealership... :shades:
The engineering isn't the problem - it's the integration of the different components from different suppliers that is the main problem (a manufacturing process problem). Very few (if any) manufacturers make their own parts - the work is farmed out to different vendors/suppliers. Some manufacturers are better at selecting vendors than others - and that has been VW's achilles heel for as long as I've driven them.
Integration of parts from different manufacturers is just as much engineering as design is. I work as an engineer. This is what I do on a daily basis. With the history that VW has with reliability, you would think that someone would change vendors. And when you notice that your coils are going bad at an alarming rate, you contact the vendor, find the root cause failure, and correct the problem. There is no excuse to have that happening years into the production cycle. The mazda3 had a poor ac system when first released. As a result, the first 4-6 months of production had crappy ac. But they fixed it. VW works with its vendors. If they cant find and diagnose the problems or if they stay with the same vendor after repeated failures, its just as much their fault as it is the vendors.
Every car manufacturer has a fleet of industrial, mechanical, and electrical engineers that work to make sure the manufacturing of vehicles goes as it should. These people take part in the design process to say what is and is not feasible. They are the ones that tell designers that "yeah that looks nice, but its going to: break easily, cost too much, ect." If there are production faults, these are the people working on solutions. They dont just hand the problem to the suppliers and say fix it. Its obvious by VW's perpetually low reliability scores that this group of people is below industry standards. Suppliers are only a small part of the problem.
Meade
...Just a thought
Like I said before - the true essence of vehicle ownership isn't for the faint of heart. You either deal with it like a man, or sit there and whine about it. The fact that my VWs have been reliable is a product of a careful, rational, analytical thought process that I use in purchasing my vehicle (like purchasing a car at or near the end of a model year), instead of the emotional, "gotta-have the latest and greatest now" instant gratification trend that has permeated the buying public over the last 20 years or so. Call me a dinosaur, call me a throwback (just don't call me late for dinner) - but I call them as I see them. The majority of drivers aren't as inclined to spend the time inspecting, troubleshooting, or properly maintaining their vehicles as they are in enhancing their ego or image. As far as ego or image is concerned, I personally don't give a rat's (fill in the blank) what people think of me (as you probably have guessed, I'm definitely NOT politically correct - and proud of it!!!). But I digress.
Mazdas are solid, well-engineered cars. So I wish you many happy miles with them.
I'll keep driving my VWs, and use my engineering and mechanical background to keep them reliably on the road, thank you..
I think there's been a gross error in the translation of VW's German slogan to English! Here's the corrected version:
"VW ... DIYers Wanted."
:P
Meade
i think it is great that you can maintain your cars so well. i think we could all learn a lesson from your meticulous care. my point though is with a new car you shouldn't need to pamper it for it to be reliable. given normal use and regular service, it should be able to run virtually care free. you cant say that faulty ignition coils are a product of improper care.
and there is something to be said about buying cars early in the development cycle. cars at the end of their run are generally grossly outdated. take in point the current golf. it looks old and outdated and its performance puts it near the bottom of the class. why purchase that when i can buy something that looks nicer and has more features. a new car shouldn't be that unreliable but if something does go wrong, there is a warranty to cover it and (at least in the case of mazda) i get a free loner while it is getting repaired.
So if that is the case, why waste your time in a VW forum
its a mazda forum just as much as it is a VW forum.
I guess you and I have different priorities.
BTW - The VW dealership I go to not only gives free loaners to their customers while their car is getting repaired, but they also have a shuttle service to take customers to work and pick them up from work. Like every other manufacturer, this service varies from dealer to dealer.
mdaffron - Don't take my capitalization of some words as anger or flying off the handle - I use capitalization for emphasis ONLY...
BTW, I do have to agree that VW seems very slow on the uptake when it comes to problems. You yourself admitted the '97s had coil problems -- well, the 2001s did too. And when owners of 2001 Jettas and Audis experienced this problem (which was very noticeable since it meant the car shut down on the highway or wouldn't start in the driveway), they'd only replace one coil at a time as they failed instead of admitting the problem and replacing them all at once. This resulted in many owners, including a really good friend of mine who owned a 2001 Jetta GLS 1.8T, having to have their less-than-one-year-old cars towed back to the dealership three more times as each coil failed.
These cars, including Jettas, New Beetles, Golfs and a bunch of Audis, also had windows with plastic internal parts that failed, sending them crashing down into the door -- this problem has been plaguing VW and Audi owners for almost a decade. I have read dozens upon dozens of complaints about that problem right here at Edmunds over the five years I've been a Town Hall member, on models going as far back as 1996.
In contrast, my 2000 Mazda Protege ES only had one recall during the entire five years I owned it -- for the coil pack, ironically. However, no one on the very active Protege discussion here at Edmunds ever had their coil fail, and many of us asked what the problem with the original one was -- and we never found out, nor did any of us notice any difference in our engines after having the new part installed. Mazda apparently did a pro-active recall before any problems occurred.
VW, however, waited until its coil-pack problem neared class-action status before doing anything about it -- and never really came clean about it either, leaving many owners feeling like the manufacturer of their car was dishonest, leaving them high and dry. Reading the Jetta-Problems & Solutions discussion from early 2001 through early 2003 was about as gut-wrenching as sitting in on a divorce court. In fact, I just stopped by that discussion, and they're still talking about electrical problems, check engine lights and failed window regulators. One guy said he's at his wit's end, having replaced the same window regulator three times and now it's failed again. Let me ask you, how long has VW been building cars? Really, how complicated is it to build a reliable window regulator? That seems to be something Volkswagen would have a handle on (pun intended) by now.
And by the way, a lot of those owners claim to be just as meticulous as you are when it comes to maintenance and TLC.
Really, go read the last 10 or 20 posts in that discussion. I'm seeing a lot of the same problems, and a lot of repeats of those same problems. And in many, if not most, cases, these aren't new-off-the-lot bugs -- these guys are replacing things three and four times on cars that are only two or three years old.
Meade
The decision to use plastic parts for the window regulator was a bean-counter move (not an engineering one) - people don't realize that bean counters and engineers clash many times over during the engineering/manufacturing process - the engineers want to use the best technologies and strongest materials while the bean counters tend to look for the cheapest way out that doesn't affect the bottom line. A prime example of this was during the 1987-1988 model year - when they replaced the super-reliable electro/mechanical CIS fuel injection system with a fully electronic fuel injection system (my old 624,000-mile 1987 Golf GT had the original CIS fuel injection system in perfect working condition - never had any problems with it whatsoever). The switch didn't change or enhance the cars performance - it was just a move by the bean counters to save costs (sure, the CIS system was expensive, but rarely broke down - so I fail to see the logic in that move).
> And by the way, a lot of those owners claim to be just as meticulous as you are when it comes to maintenance and TLC.
The only diffrerence is that these owners have VWs from 1999 through early 2003. My 2003 Jetta has a manufacturer's date of August 2003 - after they updated the window regulator and coil packs. And they are not as thorough in researching the history of problems and complaints of those earlier Mk4 VW as I am - a discipline that I learned as an aircraft mechanic in the Air Force (which is why I'm still alive today after flying many missions on planes that I have maintained). :shades:
Just kidding!!!
Meade
C'mon guys; where's all the hypothetical talk about what the two cars are all about: performance, style, and utility at a cheap price. Why in the heck you guys are fixated on window regulators is beyond me.....
:shades:
If you're referring to the Jetta, now you're getting somewhere... :shades:
Which is exactly why I'm keeping my 2003... :shades:
"2006 Mazdaspeed3 vs. 2006 VW V GTI"
For those of you that don't know, this is the subject of this thread. I understand this is hard to fathom, since 95% of the posts on the past 7 pages don't have jack to do with this topic. I thought maybe I'd get some good information here, but all I got were some egos and rambling.
I would post a link to a good source for info on the Mazdaspeed 3, but apparently, it's not allowed. For the record, I own an '05 Mazda 3 5-door and it has been an outstanding car so far. Very chuckable, a delight to the senses and the pocketbook. I can't take credit for it, but "fast and frugal" sums it up very well.
I also have driven a few Volkswagens in my day, and they are well-built and fun to drive in my experience. The A3 with the DSG and quattro is calling my name.
If you want to respond to this, feel free, but I won't be back. This is just my plea for the good of those poor suckers that come to this thread after I do. Maybe there will be some redeeming info here for them.
Otherwise, please retitle this thread "Mindless and Pointless VW vs. Mazda Discussion". Do it for the children!
Keep up the good work, Sylvia. Maybe these morons will start listening to you.
Good lord, man. Why bother gritching about the derth of hard core info on these two cars in this thread, and yet, when you have some info that COULD be shared, you don't? Maybe the reason why there's been so little discussion about the cars in question is because we don't KNOW much about them? Nature abhors a vacuum, which is why all the other stuff gets discussed.
I know I whined a bit about the direction the thread was going but I understood that the reason the two main participants weren't talking hard facts was because they didn't have access to many. And neither did I which is why I couldn't contribute.
But apparently you DO have at least SOME hardcore knowledge about at least the Mazdaspeed3. Well? What's the scoop? Or is this supposed to just be a one-way street?
Probably so, but they've got reasons for their rules and since we're all playing in THEIR sandbox, we have to adhere to their rules.
So......being the lazy s.o.b. that I am :shades: , any definite news of ANY sort about the Mzdspd3? Suspension changes, equipment levels, anticipated price, maybe a release date? Or, is everything simply unconfirmed rumors at this point? :confuse:
The large makeshift hood scoop is clear proof that something special has been added to the engine - most likely a turbocharger given the recently turbocharged MazdaSpeed6. The MazdaSpeed6 turbocharges the 2.3-liter four-cylinder, resulting in 274 hp and 280 lb-ft of torque, which necessitated a switch to an AWD drivetrain. Given its place in Mazda's pecking order, it would seem likely that this Mazda3 prototype has a turbocharged version of the 2.0-liter engine, putting horsepower at somewhere near the 235 range. With such power levels, a MazdaSpeed3 version would obviously benefit from all- wheel traction, but could also conceivably remain a front-driver.
We expect that more advanced MazdaSpeed3 prototypes will display revised sheetmetal, with a more aggressive front fascia and a properly integrated hood bulge to accommodate the turbocharger
Is it just me or do those front brake calipers look somewhat beefier than the standard 3?
:P
Those are not the standard calipers, or wheels/tires. Also, exhaust is noticeably larger, and that might be a front lip diffuser under the front fascia.
Not wild about the noticeably larger exhaust (is a loud 4-banger really a good thing?) but I'll attempt to withhold judgement until I can actually hear one in person.
Thanks for the input.
Just for clarification, my post #127 included a not-so vague reference to another forum where there is a lot of good information and it was deleted. Those are the rules, but I think Edmunds' forums will never be the cream of the crop as long as this particular rule is in place.
Good luck having a quality forum where the free flow of information is suppressed.
Signing off...
There are some good photos in this review including one of a 5-door GTI. Does anyone know if the 5-door and the 3-door will be available in the US?
Any news on the arrival date for the 3 MPS or a price?
One website I read yesterday penned the arrival date as late 2006.
Meade
When in 2006 are we supposed to see this thing?
Ken
From published information in the order system, there will be both 2-door and 4-door GTIs, and given the analogue to the Jetta, also a 4-door Golf 2.0TFSI. The GTIs will arrive approximately in February, the Golfs a couple of months later.
You can test-drive the engine and the DSG now in the A3, or in a little while in the Jetta GLI.
Also, check this article there::
VW Driver: Milltek / MTM Modified GTI - May 2005 (VW Vortex: PHope)
With an ECU mod and an improved flow exhaust, they took it to 268 HP@ 5530 RPM and 304 ft-lbs @ 2940 RPM. It includes a dyno graph.
Maybe someone else knows of a site that will have compiled some Mazdaspeed 3 information to start comparing.
250hp with just a chip/re-map (a few $100) is what seems to be typical for this engine (there are quite a number of chip manufacturers to choose from).
I guess you would have to get used to the front tires spinning a lot, or be gentle on the gas. Torque steer, though, seems to be more or less non-existing: basically, no one has reported any yet, that I am aware of.
Still not sure what I will get. If I apply my own >~180hp *(actual weight/ 3000 lbs) rule, I should wait for AWD - but who knows when or if we will ever get it in the US on either the Golf/GTI or 2.0TFSI A3?
The MazdaSpeed3 looks more promising, if it has the same (detuned?) engine as the MazdaSpeed6. Triplezoom writes that the MazdaSpeed6 is certified as a SULEV vehicle.
Does this mean the MazdaSpeed3 may also be a SULEV vehicle in North America?
The 2.0TFSI is already certified in the Jetta GLI and in the Audi A3 and A4. It is a very clean engine - there is no problem getting it certified in all states.
It lacks the extra 2 doors. (though the car overall looks decent, the front is SAME OLD - ugly head lights - just me!)
I frankly don't really care about the extra horses it packs - in this freakin traffic, can't go over 45-60 anyways. when I am on the back country roads, the Mazda sp23 packs enough punch to put a smile on my face.
that's all that matters
It lacks the extra 2 doors. (though the car overall looks decent, the front is SAME OLD - ugly head lights - just me!)
I frankly don't really care about the extra horses it packs - in this freakin traffic, can't go over 45-60 anyways. when I am on the back country roads, the Mazda sp23 packs enough punch to put a smile on my face.
that's all that matters
Let me try to make sense out of this so I can respond.
- interior: WV/Audi interiors are typically rated highest in their class
- doors: how many do you want? 7? This is not a minivan. It comes in 3-door and 5-door varieties - also in the US, as per Len Hunt.
- speed: either you need the power, or you don't. If not, the Golf is an option. If you like power to be available right here right now, even in rare circumstances, the incredibly low rpm torque of the GTI 2.0TFSI should win you over, any time.
http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/68427.jpg
http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/68428.jpg
http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/68431.jpg
http://www.volkswagen.de/vwcms_publish/vwcms/master_public/brand_portal/de30/models/golf/g- olf0/ausstattungslinien/gti.html
Also, will it be available in sedan and hatch?
I'd expect the Mazdaspeed to start at 22-23k with a few options (like navi, roof, leather) that could push the price of a loaded one to 27-28k.
I agree with blueguydotcom that the pricing could start around U$23K.
Some of this speculation may be lifted when the model is shown in Frankfurt this September.
It seems that its sibling, the Jetta GLI to be released this month, goes for ~$25-26K in DSG/package 1 version. I would assume the GTI to be $1K to $2K cheaper. Manual transmission and base version are less expensive, yet. So, I expect a $22K to $27K range in street prices, depending on options. Another price comparison point is the Audi A3.
http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/volkswagen_news/article_1472.shtml
However, we all know that straight currency conversions are a very poor indicator of actual prices in the US, in particular, with the Euro close to an all time high.
From what I hear, most people predict an R36 (not R32) in the US, with 280 to 300 hp.
Meanwhile, until there is an R36 or a quattro 2.0TFSI A3, the 4-door MKV GTI seems like a good deal to me.