Lookin forward to seein a mazda, seen some pics in pics but really want to see one in the flesh! The Golf is nice but tha shape isn't very exciting or sporting, a little bland. The mazda pic that i have seen was grey with nice big chunky wheels and it did look sporty.
Just drove a 06 Jetta GLI with DSG. The car's butt ugly and a bit too tall but I can imagine that engine and tranny in the GTI and well...that could be heaven. About 2-3 inches lower for the top of the car, maybe shed 2-300 lbs and the GTI is a burner.
APR's already got a chip out for the 2.0T too. The darned thing puts out over 250hp and 270 ft-lbs or torque. Wow.
The Golf GTI is actually faster 0-60 with the DSG gearbox! This gearbox has two clutches and it has the next gear ready so it can change gears faster then any human! 0-60 for the DSG is 6.9, its 7.2 for the manual. It also has slightly better mpg fisgures although the top speed is about 1-2 mph slower than that of the manual.
Just drove a 06 Jetta GLI with DSG. The car's butt ugly and a bit too tall but I can imagine that engine and tranny in the GTI and well...that could be heaven. About 2-3 inches lower for the top of the car, maybe shed 2-300 lbs and the GTI is a burner.
APR's already got a chip out for the 2.0T too. The darned thing puts out over 250hp and 270 ft-lbs or torque. Wow.
Totally agree. I have never been able to get hot about any Jetta ("old men with hat - kind of a car" where and when I grew up; now I am getting there but don't want to be there...). Perhaps the GTI will be a bit lower, if not, at least it's lighter and can be lowered with little cost.
Yes, this is the 170hp TDI I have been talking about (in some of the other forums). Of course, the twin-charged gas engine (in various displacement configurations) sound great, too.
Having had an '00 GTI VR6 with plenty of problems, I'm not ready to rush right back to buy another. But I have to admit, a GTI with 170 horse, 250+ lbs./ft. of torque and nearly 48 mpg might just make a believer of me again. It's a shame the EPA and CARB haven't taken a more lenient stand with diesel and consider some of its benefits, namely fuel consumption. I'd love to get a thrifty, torquey little diesel. Whoever's out with one first might just get my business. BUT, being the current owner of a Protege5, I'd consider the MS3 in a heartbeat, even taking account the likely mid-20s fuel economy.
Personally, I like Mazda's interrior more. They both look real nice, are sporty and both are fun to drive. Its a close one and your cars says a lot about you. So pick the one that best goes with your personality.
This is about next year's (?) MazdaSPEED 3 (reputed to have a drivetrain similar to the upcoming Mazdaspeed6 but nothing confirmed at this date), not the Mazda3 SP23 that went on sale earlier this year.
The UK uses Pounds Sterling. £25,000 is about US$30,000. But I would expect the US price in dollars to be south of $30k. The currency exchange rate is only part of the equation.
Does anyone have any new information when the 2.0T GTI will arrive in North America? Or the diesel Golf (type V), for that matter?
Exchange rates have historically been very poor indicators of sales prices in the US.
You may want to look at the GLI built to your liking and (optimistically) subtract $1000 -$1500 or so.
The 2-door GTI should arrive in Spring, with the 4-door following in the summer. It takes VW typically quite a while (2 or more years) to make all engine, color, and interior variation (that are final) available. I am also hopeful for the arrival of the GT models.
Diesel models are waiting for the reduced Sulfur regulations to take effect in 2006/2007.
Mazdaspeed3 ... at the Frankfurt Auto Show? I don't believe so. It's also not listed for the current Japanese show as far as I know. I suppose that means we'll need to wait until the spring, perhaps it'll be the NY autoshow (that's where the Mazdaspeed6 was unveiled a year ago).
Suggestion to Edmunds: Put out an annual calendar of major international and some national autoshows listed by month; include in the list those that you will be covering.
In January, I was in the market for a new car and had narrowed the selection down to either the Mazda3 or the GTI.
After test driving both of them, I found that the Mazda3 was much, much quieter than the GTI... in a bad way. I couldn't hear the engine rev in the Mazda3 for shifting. I literal had to watch the tachometer to shift, taking my eyes off the road. Quiet is good in a car, but not THAT quiet.
Handling between the two... the GTI was better, but not overwhelmingly so. The Mazda3 had better back seat room, but the GTI had a bigger 'trunk' in my view (deeper than the Mazda3).
All in all, it ended up being a 50-50 split... That is, until I realized that when I drove the Mazda3 and checked my blind spot before switching lanes, the center pillar blocked my view.
That was the breaking point with me and the Mazda3. There's no way I'll spend money on a car that has been designed to restrict the driver's ability to see around him.
(Which is also why I'll never drive a Dodge, but that's besides the point :P )
I ended up buying the GTI, and have been quite happy with it ever since. Though it was a crying shame that Volkswagen didn't release the new GTI in January... Now I'll have to wait about 6 years till I'm in the market again.
Me too, I also compared Mazda 3S with Jetta GLI in March. I don't like their 205 profile tire, which is very weird. I prefer at least 225 and GLI also has 6 speed manual, which is more fun to drive. And I prefer the body style of Mazda 6 over Mazda 3, but they are too big and pricier. And I prefer a 4dr sedan GLI than a hatchback GTI because I need to put my tennis balls in the trunk which should be closed so the ball smell will not go into the car. The only thing I don't get used to is when I shift from 4 to 5 or from 5 to 6, there is a jerky motion on the transmission.
The First Drive: North American GTI is posted. The three-door will be available as soon as February 2006 and five-door in June(?). (I'm waiting for the 5-door.)
There are a lot of reasons to be excited about this car but I'm still concerned about VW's reliability. I haven't heard anything new about the Mazdaspeed3 in weeks, maybe months. Is there any word in the 3MPS?
Just curious, but have you driven a GLI yet? I drove a 2.0T, and while I'm sure it doesn't have the sharp relexes you desire, the powertrain was very sweat. Quick, and pulls like a freight train in the mid range.
Plus, 6th gear is pretty relaxed (about 3k RPM @ 75 mph). Also found the clutch and shifter to be nice and smooth.
Very nice seats and interior, really did feel (and was equipped) like an Audi.
From what I have read, the GLI is more of the same, but with sport seats (no 12 way power though), and a sports suspension.
You could probably get the best of both worlds, with a 2.0T and the 17" wheels (or aftermarket big ones) and aaftermarket roll bar, etc.
Anyhow, I actually enjoy your opinions (tirades?) about the cars you try out, and I am in your corner about too many manuals being geared too short for comfortable highway cruising.
Just curious, but have you driven a GLI yet? I drove a 2.0T, and while I'm sure it doesn't have the sharp relexes you desire, the powertrain was very sweat. Quick, and pulls like a freight train in the mid range.
Great engine. I totally love the 2.0. As always I loved the DSG too. I disliked everything else about the GLI...pretty much thought the car wasn't for me.
Anyhow, I actually enjoy your opinions (tirades?) about the cars you try out, and I am in your corner about too many manuals being geared too short for comfortable highway cruising.
Glad I'm not alone.
The GTI is supposed to be more sporting than the GLI. Everybody who drives them raves. We'll see...I'm quite anxious.
Before anybody buys a mazda 3 ,Please look at the crash test. 3 stars for side impact for drive -VW gets 5 stars. I drove the mazda 3 against the new gti the other day. The GTI wins on handeling,looks, performance and Safety. Yes id you care about price goes the Mazda , but please look at crash test .com first.
The GTi's handling is, imho, sloppy and rolly-polly vis-a-vis the Mazda3. There's really no contest for road feel and chassis dynamics - the Mazda3 trounces the GTI.
For power the GTI has it in spades.
As for crash test ratings, I don't see that as a reason to buy a car. Like style, crash test ratings are worthless to me.
BTW, looks are subjective but the GTI in the flesh is obscenely large, fat and tall. It's like someone slapped 18 inch rims on a giant egg. Absolutely zero style or class for the new car. They took the last model - which was handsome - and beat it with the dorky stick until it came out looking like a bloated/swollen VW Polo.
So you would buy a car that does really lousy in the crash test ,because of price. I would think that the crash test would come first over everthing . Wait a few weeks and look at the new GTI . That got stylr,power and safe......
So you would buy a car that does really lousy in the crash test ,because of price.
I never mentioned price in my post. Handling and roadfeel are the motivating factors. The Mazda3 has much better feedback when driven hard and it'll carve in ways the GTI can't. Part of the problem stems from the massive weight, softer American suspension and the natural VW understeering bias. The Mazda3 is far lighter (2800 lbs) than the GTI (minimum of 3200 lbs), which helps contribute to a much more athletic drive feel.
I would think that the crash test would come first over everthing .
Why? I don't plan on crashing. could it happen? Sure. My god, parents in the 70s and 80s drove around with unbuckled kids climbing around cars. We were in serious danger in those massive, lumbering beastly cars. In today's vehicles a level 3 is still better than the best we grew up in. And the cars today are more agile - making avoiding the crash in the first place much easier.
Wait a few weeks and look at the new GTI .
I've driven it. 2006 GTI with Package 1, DSG and 18 inch summer performance tires. I've taken the car out and beat on it. It's not nearly as impressive as Top Gear and others claim.
Well, last January I was in the market for a new car and had settled down to either the Mazda3 hatchback or the GTI.
On paper, they were similar. The Mazda3 had a few less HP but more passenger room (plus 4 doors). The GTI had more HP, but less passenger room.
In the test drive, though, I found the Mazda3 to be TOO quiet and it was hard to check the blindspots. I literally had to look at the tachometer to measure when to shift.
Normally, I shift off of the sound the engine revs. But the Mazda3 was so quiet that I could not hear the engine. It was very disturbing to not know when to shift.
It was also very hard to glance over my shoulder to check the blindsports prior to changing lanes. There was a pillar in my line of sight when I'd check.
Now, if the Mazda3 was clearly a much better car than the GTI, I could overlook these flaws. But it wasn't. It was, to me, a neck and neck race and the Mazda3 had some flaws.
The GTI was very easy to see out of, blindspots included. It was also a little bit noisier, so I could actually shift the way I liked (from the audio cues).
The handling was a little bit worse, but the power was a little bit better.
---
As for the new model GTI... I haven't a clue. But as soon as the local dealership gets one it, I'll be test driving it.
But I have a friend who just bought the A3 with DSG and sports package.
And after riding in it... The DSG and the 2.0L Turbo makes for some very, very, very good acceleration. And the sports suspension is nice, very nice.
:shades:
Though, I really wasn't impressed with the interior materials. The front seats were great, but comparing the A3 backseats to the old-model GTI backseats... well, the GTI backseats at least attempted to be somewhat of a bucket seat. Not the A3, not at all. It was a flat bench seat and I slid around quite a lot when my friend would pull a sharp turn.
And the dashboard was nice looking, but it sounded hollow when I rapped my knuckle on it. Not like my GTI at all. When I'd rap my knuckle on the dash, it would make a soft thud.
The GTi's handling is, imho, sloppy and rolly-polly vis-a-vis the Mazda3. There's really no contest for road feel and chassis dynamics - the Mazda3 trounces the GTI.
I appreciate your refreshing perspective - but you do realize there are not many lay people nor professional reviewers siding with your opinion? To be honest, I think it's foolish to dismiss Top Gear and other highly acclaimed reviews like that on personal anecdote.
I have driven many cars based on the previous Mazda3 and Focus platform - it is incredibly squirely and pretty much the opposite of confidence inspiring. While recent changes in the 3 have been modest, the new Golf/GTI is on a completely new platform with a newly-designed independent rear suspension.
The MkV GTI, while less so than its antecessors, still likes to dive an roll a bit. However, I maintain that's its character: it immediately settles and remains flat, poised, and predictable for the remainder of the course - pretty much the opposite of the squirely Mazda3, IMO.
No reason to argue here, really: just go for a test drive and see for yourself.
I actually work for a VW dealership, but I own a Mazda 3s hatch. Speaking on the new GTI, if you turn off the driving aids, i.e ESP, the GTI will get sideways. To me its just a GLI in hatchback trim. It reminds me of a Honda Civic SI hatch with its egg design. Does anyone remember what Mazda did with the Mazdaspeed Protege, do you seriously think the Mazdaspeed 3 will handle sloppy. If they put 235 hp in this car it will trounce the new GTI.
... but you do realize there are not many lay people nor professional reviewers siding with your opinion? To be honest, I think it's foolish to dismiss Top Gear and other highly acclaimed reviews like that on personal anecdote.
Uh, no it's irrelevant if "professionals" or lay people agree with me. It's my dollars I'm voting with, so in the long run the only opinion that's gonna shape my view of a car is my own. No way around that. I can easily accept others feel differently, but I will never take their word for how a car drives.
I have driven many cars based on the previous Mazda3 and Focus platform - it is incredibly squirely and pretty much the opposite of confidence inspiring. While recent changes in the 3 have been modest, the new Golf/GTI is on a completely new platform with a newly-designed independent rear suspension.
I feel the 3's handling is a blast. Can the car get into oversteer? Yep. Does it have electronic nannies? nope. Is it really neutral to oversteer bias when pushed really hard? Oh yeah. Is it light and flingable through twists? no doubt.
The 06 GTI felt spongy, tall and leaned heavily in corners. In quickly transitioning - left-right-left, etc - the car didn't respond with the falt, smooth, taunt, light, edgy feel I look for in my cars.
The MkV GTI, while less so than its antecessors, still likes to dive an roll a bit. However, I maintain that's its character: it immediately settles and remains flat, poised, and predictable for the remainder of the course - pretty much the opposite of the squirely Mazda3, IMO.
We ended up feeling different things. I'm sure in the end we'll buy what we like most.
No reason to argue here, really: just go for a test drive and see for yourself.
I have. The 2006 GTI is not the car for me. Like the VW Jetta GLI, it's too soft and too heavy for my driving style. The Mazda3 is the most fun I've had with a FWD car since I sold my Protege ES: light, tossable, prone to oversteer when given the right throttle inputs but neutral most of the time.
Funny, just yesterday a friend who housesat for me last year asked if I sold my Pro. I said yes and he was disappointed. He told me that while I was away he drove my cars (my request to keep the batteries fresh) and that he'd never driven such a fun, tossable little car as my old Pro. He said in some ways he found it more entertaining than my 330i. I agree. It was more engaging to drive.
Fair enough, I won't argue with that. I am still tempted to say, "neutral handling is just a thicker rear sway bar away", but I understand, you want stock. I would only consider very minor mods, myself - so I definitely get what you are saying. And, with the anticipated beefier engine, I would expect the MazdaSpeed3 to be a true contender also in the acceleration department.
I guess what is "fun", or what makes us grin, varies quite a bit from person to person. I don't mind a bit of understeer and much prefer a solid, predictable ride over a shoot-and-point-and-hope-for-the-best approach that get's its job done, but, all the while, you are never quite sure how it manages to do so. Others like the adrenaline rush this uncertainty produces.
> Like the VW Jetta GLI, it's too soft and too heavy for my driving style.
Have you considered test driving the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution or the Subaru WRX? They both have the agressive suspension setup you may be looking for...
Be very careful in your comparison. The IIHS tested the following vehicles: 2006 VW Jetta (sedan) with standard side air bags; 2006 Audi A3 (5-door hatch) with standard side air bags; 2006 Volvo S40 (sedan) with standard side air bags; 2006 Mazda 3 (sedan) WITHOUT standard side airbags.
The 2006 VW Jetta 4-door did very well in front and side crash test; it did well in rear crash test. The car tested was with STANDARD side air bags.
Ditto for the Audi A3 with STANDARD side air bags.
The newly redesigned GTI has yet to be tested – front, side, and rear. The current model did very well in front crash tests. However, the Audi A3 and GTI are very similar in creation so it may be precluded that the GTI will do equally as well as the A3
As for the Mazda 3, only the sedan was tested WITHOUT OPTIONAL side air bags. Mazda did not want to cough up the cash nor would risk the chance that its vehicle with side airbags installed not does well. So, Mazda opted out of testing a vehicle with optional side air bags.
However, the Volvo S40 with STANDARD side air bags was tested. The Volvo S40 did very well in front and rear crash tests and did well in side crash tests. Since the Volvo S40 and Mazda 3 sedan are very similar in creation, it may be precluded that the Mazda 3 sedan with optional side air bags would do equally as well as the Volvo S40.
Conclusion: Comparing ‘apples to apples’ and sticking with hard facts, only the 2006 VW Jetta and 2006 Volvo S40 (both with standard side airbags) may be compared safety wise. Doing so, there is some trade off between the vehicles’ safety record. IMO the VW Jetta has a slight advantage in safety when compared to Volvo S40. Same could probably be said vs. the Mazda 3 sedan.
> The 06 GTI felt spongy, tall and leaned heavily in corners. In quickly transitioning - left-right-left, etc - the car didn't respond with the falt, smooth, taunt, light, edgy feel I look for in my cars.
You probably wouldn't feel that way if you lived in the Northeast like I do. The lowered, taut-handling vehicles turn into plows during heavy snowstorms, and the rougher roads (read: potholes) tend to play havoc on one's back... :sick:
I live in Minnesota and drive on crappy rural roads pretty often with my mazda3 and have had no problems. My car handles in the snow just fine too. The suspension is taut, yes, but not so to the point where its unlivable by any stretch.
Have Passat I need to return-going off lease. Interested in moving to Mazda3 5 spd auto, GTI with DSG or Mini Cooper S with 6 speed auto.
Questions:
+Has anyone considered the Mini against these two cars? +How would you rate the automatics on all three? +Which would be best autocross option for weekend sports? +Anything to beware with any of them-with auto-manual options on any of these cars?
Have driven the Mazda3, also Audi A3 with DSG and 200 hp (same as GTI, but too much money) and will drive GTI shortly after they come in. I thought the DSG was impressive in the Audi--fast shifts, no turbo lag during acceleration but what is the right 'premium' for DSG, traction and stability control over car like Mazda3 that has none of these?
Mazda3 looks like best value of these, only minus with that shift pattern on the 5 speed auto is opposite of other cars, tip it up to go into lower gear--which I can't understand, but would get used it.
The moderators likely will admonish you for putting another car into the mix, but here it goes:
+Has anyone considered the Mini against these two cars? I know a number of people who have - all of them basically never needed to carry more than one passenger or large amounts of luggage, and have other cars for that purpose. It handles the best out of these on tight courses/curves. It doesn't have the torque of the GTI, though.
+How would you rate the automatics on all three? DSG simply is in another league. Vastly quicker shifts, no torque converter to lose power or fuel consumption with.
+Which would be best autocross option for weekend sports? I don't think you really need to ask that, do you? The go-cart, of course.
+Anything to beware with any of them-with auto-manual options on any of these cars? Not sure how great a performer the Mazda is with an auto transmission.
Interior-wise, the Mini is cute and quite good, the GTI is in another league (but that of course depends on your taste). Also, I suggest you take another look at how many things come standard on the GTI. Whether you need/want that, is again another question...
Evo magazine just did a review of the (new platform) Euro Focus ST against the GTI. The MazdaSpeed3 - related ST did very well and seems to be quite a powerhouse. Overall, the GTI won, though - with the better chassis and driver feedback.
Does the Euro Focus ST have a lot of the performance upgrades of the MazdaSPEED3 or is it basically a Mazda3?
I'm asking because I was under the impression that the upcoming '07 Mazdaspeed3 will have some chassis upgrades in addition to its direct-injection turbo 2.3 from the Mazdaspeed6.
Comments
The GTI even at your 20,000 GBP would be $36,000 US dollars.
APR's already got a chip out for the 2.0T too. The darned thing puts out over 250hp and 270 ft-lbs or torque. Wow.
APR's already got a chip out for the 2.0T too. The darned thing puts out over 250hp and 270 ft-lbs or torque. Wow.
Totally agree. I have never been able to get hot about any Jetta ("old men with hat - kind of a car" where and when I grew up; now I am getting there but don't want to be there...). Perhaps the GTI will be a bit lower, if not, at least it's lighter and can be lowered with little cost.
http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/volkswagen_news/article_1496.shtml
Mazda3 - SP23 5-Door - 2.3L 160 hp I4
VW GTI VR6 - 2.8L 200 hp V6
VW is a little more expensive.
Mazda MSRP: $18,685
VW Msrp: $22,330
Mazda has more options(special ed) and is more practical
(4 door - compared to 2 doors)
Mazda 3 has slightly better fuel economy
Mazda (Highway): 29 - 32
VW (Highway): 29
Mazda (City): 24 - 25
VW (City): 22
Personally, I like Mazda's interrior more.
They both look real nice, are sporty and both are fun to drive.
Its a close one and your cars says a lot about you. So pick the one that best goes with your personality.
A car that tells everyone: "This is me"
link title
This is about next year's (?) MazdaSPEED 3 (reputed to have a drivetrain similar to the upcoming Mazdaspeed6 but nothing confirmed at this date), not the Mazda3 SP23 that went on sale earlier this year.
thanks for the corrections
Who here is good with exchange rates Euro -> US?
Does anyone have any new information when the 2.0T GTI will arrive in North America? Or the diesel Golf (type V), for that matter?
You may want to look at the GLI built to your liking and (optimistically) subtract $1000 -$1500 or so.
The 2-door GTI should arrive in Spring, with the 4-door following in the summer. It takes VW typically quite a while (2 or more years) to make all engine, color, and interior variation (that are final) available. I am also hopeful for the arrival of the GT models.
Diesel models are waiting for the reduced Sulfur regulations to take effect in 2006/2007.
I don't believe so. It's also not listed for the current Japanese show as far as I know. I suppose that means we'll need to wait until the spring, perhaps it'll be the NY autoshow (that's where the Mazdaspeed6 was unveiled a year ago).
Suggestion to Edmunds: Put out an annual calendar of major international and some national autoshows listed by month; include in the list those that you will be covering.
After test driving both of them, I found that the Mazda3 was much, much quieter than the GTI... in a bad way. I couldn't hear the engine rev in the Mazda3 for shifting. I literal had to watch the tachometer to shift, taking my eyes off the road. Quiet is good in a car, but not THAT quiet.
Handling between the two... the GTI was better, but not overwhelmingly so. The Mazda3 had better back seat room, but the GTI had a bigger 'trunk' in my view (deeper than the Mazda3).
All in all, it ended up being a 50-50 split... That is, until I realized that when I drove the Mazda3 and checked my blind spot before switching lanes, the center pillar blocked my view.
That was the breaking point with me and the Mazda3. There's no way I'll spend money on a car that has been designed to restrict the driver's ability to see around him.
(Which is also why I'll never drive a Dodge, but that's besides the point :P )
I ended up buying the GTI, and have been quite happy with it ever since. Though it was a crying shame that Volkswagen didn't release the new GTI in January... Now I'll have to wait about 6 years till I'm in the market again.
And I prefer a 4dr sedan GLI than a hatchback GTI because I need to put my tennis balls in the trunk which should be closed so the ball smell will not go into the car.
The only thing I don't get used to is when I shift from 4 to 5 or from 5 to 6, there is a jerky motion on the transmission.
The three-door will be available as soon as February 2006 and five-door in June(?). (I'm waiting for the 5-door.)
There are a lot of reasons to be excited about this car but I'm still concerned about VW's reliability. I haven't heard anything new about the Mazdaspeed3 in weeks, maybe months. Is there any word in the 3MPS?
Plus, 6th gear is pretty relaxed (about 3k RPM @ 75 mph). Also found the clutch and shifter to be nice and smooth.
Very nice seats and interior, really did feel (and was equipped) like an Audi.
From what I have read, the GLI is more of the same, but with sport seats (no 12 way power though), and a sports suspension.
You could probably get the best of both worlds, with a 2.0T and the 17" wheels (or aftermarket big ones) and aaftermarket roll bar, etc.
Anyhow, I actually enjoy your opinions (tirades?) about the cars you try out, and I am in your corner about too many manuals being geared too short for comfortable highway cruising.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Great engine. I totally love the 2.0. As always I loved the DSG too. I disliked everything else about the GLI...pretty much thought the car wasn't for me.
Anyhow, I actually enjoy your opinions (tirades?) about the cars you try out, and I am in your corner about too many manuals being geared too short for comfortable highway cruising.
Glad I'm not alone.
The GTI is supposed to be more sporting than the GLI. Everybody who drives them raves. We'll see...I'm quite anxious.
For power the GTI has it in spades.
As for crash test ratings, I don't see that as a reason to buy a car. Like style, crash test ratings are worthless to me.
BTW, looks are subjective but the GTI in the flesh is obscenely large, fat and tall. It's like someone slapped 18 inch rims on a giant egg. Absolutely zero style or class for the new car. They took the last model - which was handsome - and beat it with the dorky stick until it came out looking like a bloated/swollen VW Polo.
I never mentioned price in my post. Handling and roadfeel are the motivating factors. The Mazda3 has much better feedback when driven hard and it'll carve in ways the GTI can't. Part of the problem stems from the massive weight, softer American suspension and the natural VW understeering bias. The Mazda3 is far lighter (2800 lbs) than the GTI (minimum of 3200 lbs), which helps contribute to a much more athletic drive feel.
I would think that the crash test would come first over everthing .
Why? I don't plan on crashing. could it happen? Sure. My god, parents in the 70s and 80s drove around with unbuckled kids climbing around cars. We were in serious danger in those massive, lumbering beastly cars. In today's vehicles a level 3 is still better than the best we grew up in. And the cars today are more agile - making avoiding the crash in the first place much easier.
Wait a few weeks and look at the new GTI .
I've driven it. 2006 GTI with Package 1, DSG and 18 inch summer performance tires. I've taken the car out and beat on it. It's not nearly as impressive as Top Gear and others claim.
Have you driven it?
I'm trying to wait and see which is a better overall choice.
Anyone else in the same boat?
On paper, they were similar. The Mazda3 had a few less HP but more passenger room (plus 4 doors). The GTI had more HP, but less passenger room.
In the test drive, though, I found the Mazda3 to be TOO quiet and it was hard to check the blindspots. I literally had to look at the tachometer to measure when to shift.
Normally, I shift off of the sound the engine revs. But the Mazda3 was so quiet that I could not hear the engine. It was very disturbing to not know when to shift.
It was also very hard to glance over my shoulder to check the blindsports prior to changing lanes. There was a pillar in my line of sight when I'd check.
Now, if the Mazda3 was clearly a much better car than the GTI, I could overlook these flaws. But it wasn't. It was, to me, a neck and neck race and the Mazda3 had some flaws.
The GTI was very easy to see out of, blindspots included. It was also a little bit noisier, so I could actually shift the way I liked (from the audio cues).
The handling was a little bit worse, but the power was a little bit better.
---
As for the new model GTI... I haven't a clue. But as soon as the local dealership gets one it, I'll be test driving it.
But I have a friend who just bought the A3 with DSG and sports package.
And after riding in it... The DSG and the 2.0L Turbo makes for some very, very, very good acceleration. And the sports suspension is nice, very nice.
:shades:
Though, I really wasn't impressed with the interior materials. The front seats were great, but comparing the A3 backseats to the old-model GTI backseats... well, the GTI backseats at least attempted to be somewhat of a bucket seat. Not the A3, not at all. It was a flat bench seat and I slid around quite a lot when my friend would pull a sharp turn.
And the dashboard was nice looking, but it sounded hollow when I rapped my knuckle on it. Not like my GTI at all. When I'd rap my knuckle on the dash, it would make a soft thud.
I appreciate your refreshing perspective - but you do realize there are not many lay people nor professional reviewers siding with your opinion? To be honest, I think it's foolish to dismiss Top Gear and other highly acclaimed reviews like that on personal anecdote.
I have driven many cars based on the previous Mazda3 and Focus platform - it is incredibly squirely and pretty much the opposite of confidence inspiring. While recent changes in the 3 have been modest, the new Golf/GTI is on a completely new platform with a newly-designed independent rear suspension.
The MkV GTI, while less so than its antecessors, still likes to dive an roll a bit. However, I maintain that's its character: it immediately settles and remains flat, poised, and predictable for the remainder of the course - pretty much the opposite of the squirely Mazda3, IMO.
No reason to argue here, really: just go for a test drive and see for yourself.
ummmm, I'm fairly sure that blueguydotcom HAS driven the '06 GTI.....as you will see from the end of his last post.
While you've only driven the LAST generation of the Mazda3 rather than the current car.
Perhaps YOU should just go for a test drive and see for yourself......
Uh, no it's irrelevant if "professionals" or lay people agree with me. It's my dollars I'm voting with, so in the long run the only opinion that's gonna shape my view of a car is my own. No way around that. I can easily accept others feel differently, but I will never take their word for how a car drives.
I have driven many cars based on the previous Mazda3 and Focus platform - it is incredibly squirely and pretty much the opposite of confidence inspiring. While recent changes in the 3 have been modest, the new Golf/GTI is on a completely new platform with a newly-designed independent rear suspension.
I feel the 3's handling is a blast. Can the car get into oversteer? Yep. Does it have electronic nannies? nope. Is it really neutral to oversteer bias when pushed really hard? Oh yeah. Is it light and flingable through twists? no doubt.
The 06 GTI felt spongy, tall and leaned heavily in corners. In quickly transitioning - left-right-left, etc - the car didn't respond with the falt, smooth, taunt, light, edgy feel I look for in my cars.
The MkV GTI, while less so than its antecessors, still likes to dive an roll a bit. However, I maintain that's its character: it immediately settles and remains flat, poised, and predictable for the remainder of the course - pretty much the opposite of the squirely Mazda3, IMO.
We ended up feeling different things. I'm sure in the end we'll buy what we like most.
No reason to argue here, really: just go for a test drive and see for yourself.
I have. The 2006 GTI is not the car for me. Like the VW Jetta GLI, it's too soft and too heavy for my driving style. The Mazda3 is the most fun I've had with a FWD car since I sold my Protege ES: light, tossable, prone to oversteer when given the right throttle inputs but neutral most of the time.
Funny, just yesterday a friend who housesat for me last year asked if I sold my Pro. I said yes and he was disappointed. He told me that while I was away he drove my cars (my request to keep the batteries fresh) and that he'd never driven such a fun, tossable little car as my old Pro. He said in some ways he found it more entertaining than my 330i. I agree. It was more engaging to drive.
I guess what is "fun", or what makes us grin, varies quite a bit from person to person. I don't mind a bit of understeer and much prefer a solid, predictable ride over a shoot-and-point-and-hope-for-the-best approach that get's its job done, but, all the while, you are never quite sure how it manages to do so. Others like the adrenaline rush this uncertainty produces.
Peace.
Have you considered test driving the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution or the Subaru WRX? They both have the agressive suspension setup you may be looking for...
The 2006 VW Jetta 4-door did very well in front and side crash test; it did well in rear crash test. The car tested was with STANDARD side air bags.
Ditto for the Audi A3 with STANDARD side air bags.
The newly redesigned GTI has yet to be tested – front, side, and rear. The current model did very well in front crash tests. However, the Audi A3 and GTI are very similar in creation so it may be precluded that the GTI will do equally as well as the A3
As for the Mazda 3, only the sedan was tested WITHOUT OPTIONAL side air bags. Mazda did not want to cough up the cash nor would risk the chance that its vehicle with side airbags installed not does well. So, Mazda opted out of testing a vehicle with optional side air bags.
However, the Volvo S40 with STANDARD side air bags was tested. The Volvo S40 did very well in front and rear crash tests and did well in side crash tests. Since the Volvo S40 and Mazda 3 sedan are very similar in creation, it may be precluded that the Mazda 3 sedan with optional side air bags would do equally as well as the Volvo S40.
Conclusion: Comparing ‘apples to apples’ and sticking with hard facts, only the 2006 VW Jetta and 2006 Volvo S40 (both with standard side airbags) may be compared safety wise. Doing so, there is some trade off between the vehicles’ safety record. IMO the VW Jetta has a slight advantage in safety when compared to Volvo S40. Same could probably be said vs. the Mazda 3 sedan.
You probably wouldn't feel that way if you lived in the Northeast like I do. The lowered, taut-handling vehicles turn into plows during heavy snowstorms, and the rougher roads (read: potholes) tend to play havoc on one's back... :sick:
Questions:
+Has anyone considered the Mini against these two cars?
+How would you rate the automatics on all three?
+Which would be best autocross option for weekend sports?
+Anything to beware with any of them-with auto-manual options on any of these cars?
Have driven the Mazda3, also Audi A3 with DSG and 200 hp (same as GTI, but too much money) and will drive GTI shortly after they come in. I thought the DSG was impressive in the Audi--fast shifts, no turbo lag during acceleration but what is the right 'premium' for DSG, traction and stability control over car like Mazda3 that has none of these?
Mazda3 looks like best value of these, only minus with that shift pattern on the 5 speed auto is opposite of other cars, tip it up to go into lower gear--which I can't understand, but would get used it.
+Has anyone considered the Mini against these two cars?
I know a number of people who have - all of them basically never needed to carry more than one passenger or large amounts of luggage, and have other cars for that purpose. It handles the best out of these on tight courses/curves. It doesn't have the torque of the GTI, though.
+How would you rate the automatics on all three?
DSG simply is in another league. Vastly quicker shifts, no torque converter to lose power or fuel consumption with.
+Which would be best autocross option for weekend sports?
I don't think you really need to ask that, do you? The go-cart, of course.
+Anything to beware with any of them-with auto-manual options on any of these cars?
Not sure how great a performer the Mazda is with an auto transmission.
Interior-wise, the Mini is cute and quite good, the GTI is in another league (but that of course depends on your taste). Also, I suggest you take another look at how many things come standard on the GTI. Whether you need/want that, is again another question...
I'm asking because I was under the impression that the upcoming '07 Mazdaspeed3 will have some chassis upgrades in addition to its direct-injection turbo 2.3 from the Mazdaspeed6.