Mystery car pix

andys120

Cars of several nationalities from this B&W street scene from 1964 (Paris?)>

magnette

Bonjour.

The mini is an Austin, and by this date it would be either the original Austin Seven or the Austin Mini (from about 1962) It's a deluxe, by the way.
In the foreground we have a Citroen Traction Avant, probably a fairly late one judging by the indicators on the wings.
The white car is a Renault Dauphine (or a Henney Kilowatt, as last week, but that would seem unlikely!), and following it is a Renault R8.
The two vans are Renaults, too, I think.
Less sure about the Chevrolet - 1951?

andys120

Great job Magnette, you've got them all, except the Chevy, which IMO is a '53 or '54..

The mini is labelled at imcbd as a '62 Austin Seven, how can you tell it's a Deluxe?

Nomenclature for late TAs is confusing to me, I think it could be an 11Normale, a Light 15 and probably a couple of others.:confuse:

magnette

The little chrome bar above the corner of the front (and where visible rear) bumpers is a sign of a deluxe, as opposed to a standard model, but many of the early standard ones didn't have chrome surrounds to the rear windows, too.

I am hopeless with Traction Avants - the ones sold in UK were generally better equiped than the standard French model, with more chrome - but this one has a proper chrome grille too, so it may be whatever the deluxe term was for those..

As for the Chevy, I must say I thought it ws earlier, but I am no good with dates...

imidazol97

I'll go for 1953 Chev. I think I can see the round parking lamp. The '54s had rectangular parking lights.

andys120

If you move fast you can beat him to it.

Is that Mount Vernon back there?>

stephen987

'74 Dodge Monaco? Or am I missing something?

andre1969

At first I was gonna say a 1972 Plymouth, but then I saw the faint "1973" on the license plate! Plus, it just hit me...the '72 Fury would still have one of those loop-grilles that wouldn't hold up to 5 mph bumper standards. Its whole name is probably something like Fury III Gran Coupe.

Not sure where that background is, but I don't think it's Mount Vernon. Kind of a pretty picture, though. It actually makes me think slightly of the University of Maryland, where I went to college, but it's not that, either.

stephen987

Yeah, I remember the Fury Gran Coupe. Didn't they also use "Gran Coupe" as a trim level on the Barracuda for a year or two?

andys120

Yup, it's a '73 Fury, I was hoping that indistinct plate would fool some, it looks like "1979" in my monitors. This was the cover illustration for the entire 1973 Plymouth Fury line so it doesn't say exactly which Fury it is. It lists the following "Fury Gran Coupe/ Fury Gran Sedan/FuryIII/Fury II/ Fury I".

What possible reason could there be to offer so many variations on the same car? :sick:

stephen987

What possible reason could there be to offer so many variations on the same car?

Biscayne, Bel Air, Impala, Caprice.

andre1969

Actually it looks alot like "1979" on my monitor, too!

As for offering all those variations, I guess back then it made sense, to them, in order to keep up with Chevy. That Fury I/Fury II/Fury III/Gran Coupe/Sedan would've roughly equated to Biscayne/Bel Air/Impala/Caprice.

andre1969

Yeah, they used the name "Gran Coupe" on the Barracuda for a few years. I think it started in 1970, and probably a response to the Mustang Grande.

stephen987

That Fury I/Fury II/Fury III/Gran Coupe/Sedan would've roughly equated to Biscayne/Bel Air/Impala/Caprice.

See also Custom/Custom 500/Galaxie 500/LTD.

andre1969

Thanks, Stephen...I was trying to remember Ford's naming convention by that time, but it just wasn't coming to me!

bhill2

As I remember, back in the late '60s when the Big 3 started going upscale (Caprice/LTD) the Plymouth version was the VIP. When did that change?

andre1969

The VIP's last year was 1969, I believe. For 1970, the Gran Coupe made its debut, but it was sort of an odd thing. It was based on the low-line fixed-pillar coupe, rather than a hardtop, yet it had a spruced up interior, and the sportier front-end with the hidden headlights. It also had air conditioning standard, which must have been a rarity on a car in that price class in those days. The ads compared the Gran Coupe to the LTD and Caprice.

For 1971, the Gran Coupe was offered as a hardtop coupe or hardtop sedan, and oddly, even the 4-door was called "Gran Coupe" :confuse: For 1972 they called the 4-door "Gran Sedan", though.

They abandoned this in 1975 though, when all the big cars were called "Gran Fury", with the nicer Caprice/LTD type models called "Gran Fury Brougham".

andys120

stephen987

Austin Champ?

andys120

Austin Champ?

Nope, sorry.

hudsonthedog

Nissan Patrol

hudsonthedog

What possible reason could there be to offer so many variations on the same car?

I see it differently.

Prior to about 1960, each brand had one basic car sold in a number of model lines. Even up through the early 1980s, some publications referred to a "Ford" or "Chevrolet" when they talked about full-sized model. Today, "Bel Air" or "Impala" or "Biscayne" would be considered a trim level but in years past it was considered to be a model line.

When the first sports cars were introduced, you had the choice between a Chevrolet (or Ford) and a Corvette (or Thunderbird). Even when the first "compacts" were introduced, Falcon, Corvair, and Valiant were promoted as if they were entirely new brands and not just model lines under their respective brands.

andys120

Nissan Patrol

Yep, to be exact it's a 1969 Nissan KL60 Patrol. .

andys120

andre1969

Even up through the early 1980s, some publications referred to a "Ford" or "Chevrolet" when they talked about full-sized model. Today, "Bel Air" or "Impala" or "Biscayne" would be considered a trim level but in years past it was considered to be a model line.

I've always wondered if the reason they started doing that was because of Plymouth. Plymouth shot themselves in the foot with oddly styled 1960-61 models that had a lot of pressure put on them by similar, much more attractive Dodge models only costing a few dollars more. Then in '62-64 they downsized, accidentally creating intermediates. Good, sturdy, lightweight performance cars when equipped with the right engine, but nobody who still wanted a big'un took them seriously. Then for 1965, they re-entered the full-sized market, in a major way. However, instead of giving the trim levels totally different names, they just called them all Fury. Fury I, Fury II, Fury III, Fury VIP, Sport Fury.

I think it was around that time, or soon thereafter, that most publications just started lumping all the big Fords together under "Ford", and similarly with the Chevies.

Further up the ranks, the other divisions never did that. For instance, they never lumped the Catalina, Executive, Bonneville, and full-sized Grand Prix together under "Pontiac". And I think Dodge always separated the Polara and Monaco. Mercury kept their models separate as well, although eventually in the 70's, they did consolidate. Mercury went with Marquis, with the uplevel model being a Grand Marquis. Dodge went with Monaco/Royal Monaco/Royal Monaco Brougham for 1974, I believe.

lemko

Ford had the LTD
Plymouth had the VIP
AMC had the Ambassador 990 DPL

DPL? Does that stand for "Diplomat?"

stephen987

At first I thought it might be a Renault Floride, but the Floride is a lot more cluttered-looking than this car. Perhaps it's a Fiat Vignale 600 or 750 coupe?

andys120

You'r getting warm, that coupe is Fiat-based, the stylist was Frua, not Vignale.

stephen987

Vignale did one very similar, though the turn signals are differently located. I wonder if Vignale and Frua were sifting through each other's trash cans. I know Frua did the Floride/Caravelle.

Vignale 600 Coupe
Renault Caravelle Coupe

magnette

Some sort of Moretti ?

andys120

That's a good guess too, I think Frua did some Morettis.

I don't think anybody is going to get this one, only a handful were made. It's a 1963-4 Gianini 850 Coupe, based on Fiat 600D mechanicals

. Per carsfromitaly.com:

At the end of 1963 Giannini released this little coupé. Based on the mechanicals of the Fiat 600D, with the engine modified by Giannini to a capacity of 850cc, generating 42bhp @ 5,800rpm giving a maximum speed of around 135kph. The body was designed by Frua and constructed by Viotti at Turin. .

stephen987

boomchek

It's a Polish FSM Syrena 105 of 80s vintage.

They never came in a convertible format or with an Alfa Romeo badge either.

stephen987

Extremely quick. Good job, Boomchek.

boomchek

I grew up with those cars :P

andys120

the late, great Phil Hill, America's first F1 champion. Don't let that fool you, he never had much to do with this particular make/model AFAIK>

stephen987

We had such lovelies as these:






None of them particularly challenging for an American growing up in the '70s--unless you had to depend on one for transportation. . .

stephen987

Peugeot 403? With Phil Hill? An odd pairing.

boomchek

The first one is a Chevy Vega I believe.

Second is a Mazda RX3.

Next is a Chevy Chevette

The yellow is a Fiat 131 Estate. We had those too, but not too many.

stephen987

The green one's not a Vega--but you're close. And the yellow one used a different name in the US in 1978-80. Correct on the RX3 and the Chevette Woody.

fintail

The Mazda is somehow cool...the Fiat is interesting too, just because one knows it has craptacular quality. There was one of those 131 wagons in the smallish town where I grew up...even when I was a kid I knew it was odd. It too was yellow, and an automatic :sick:

A woody Chevette...who can argue with that? The golden age of the American auto industry!

stephen987

Well, they had to build a Chevette Woody--how could they let the Pinto Squire go unanswered?

At least they never did this to the Chevette:

kyfdx

The green one is a Pontiac Astre, I think...

stephen987

The green one is a Pontiac Astre, I think...

*ding*

We have a winner. . . The Pontiac Astre, a badge-engineered Vega, ran and hid from the Vega's reputation for engine meltdown by replacing the liner-less aluminum block "Dura Built" engine with the retro-tech Iron Duke, lifted from the early '60s Chevy II with a host of minor revisions.

Anybody for the yellow "luxury" version of the Fiat 131 produced in the late 1970s for the US market?

boomchek

Are you hinting at the Mirafiori name?

fintail

I remember when I was a young teen, my dad found a very nice Pinto Cruisin Wagon, and he wanted to buy it, thinking it would be a collectible. My mother swiftly put her foot down...some of his other old beasts were OK, but no Pinto would live at her house.

stephen987

Are you hinting at the Mirafiori name?
Nope. I believe "Mirafiori" was appended to all US market 131s in the first couple of years. The car in question is a Fiat Super Brava.

andys120

Peugeot 403? With Phil Hill? An odd pairing

Tres bizarre, Pug 403 is correct, it stayed in production for over a decade (1955-66).

stephen987

Didn't Columbo drive a 403 droptop?

jlbl

On a summer night in 1969 I was approaching Paris driving one of them (a second hand one) and her gearbox caught fire. By the time the Gendarmerie and the Firemen came, only a smoking carcass was left. A hot night party. :sick:

Regards,
Jose