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Mopar Slant Sixes
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I've also seen them used in boats but I think the older flathead Chryslers were better suited.
That gear reduction started could drain a lot of juice. If your Slant 6 didnt' fire up right away on a cold day (it usually did), you didn't have lots of cranking power left.
Probably what really killed the slant-6 was front wheel drive.
Shiftright, I saw a '65 hardtop with the four speed, so there were at least two. Who ordered cars like that? Engineers with pocket protectors? Liberal Democrats? I like that they were going against the grain.
Andre, you mentioned the Ford sixes. There were indeed two families, and one of them, the 240, was a decent performer. This was actually newer than the Falcon sixes, first came out I think in '65 and was supposedly similar to the 302. In fact I remember reading about a drag racer who modified a Windsor head to fit the six, so I guess the bore spacing was the same. The 240 had a short stroke and could be persuaded to rev. Later stroked into the 300 truck six.
The other Ford six first showed up in the '60 Falcon as a 144 and 170. Four main bearings and the intake manifold was cast integral with the head, with very small passages, so it wasn't a screamer. Believe me, 85 hp in a Falcon didn't go far. The only way to improve the carburetion was to either mill off the manifold and fabricate a replacement, or cut a hole at each end of the existing manifold, weld on a base plate for a carb and have 3 1v carbs. A Dagenham English Ford 4 speed was a factory option for a while. I think a few Mustangs were so equipped--there's another package that went against the grain.
The 200 had seven bearings, came out about the same time they decided to put synchro on first gear in the 3-speed, and I used to fantasize about this set-up in my Falcon.
Then the 250 came out in the late '60s, just a stroked 200, and that 72 hp may not be a misprint, it was strictly a torquer.
I remember articles in the early '70s about a turbo 250 in a Maverick, and in the late '60s a Mustang 250 with a fuel injection set-up they said was worth more than the car. I think both projects were done by Ak Miller with factory backing.
After years of faithful service I finally sold my Falcon for something like $75 to a college friend. Shortly after that the steering wheel came off while she was driving it. She worked through that, although I still remember the funny look she gave me as she told me about it. A little while later it blew a head gasket, so I guess it really missed me.
I never thought it got very good milage. Can't really remember, but seems like 19 was about highway milage.
And, I always thought it was starting to 'cry' if you tried to push it over 65mph.
I thought it look niced, never needed much repair. Do remember that someone had already replaced the entire exhaust - muffler and pipes all the way back - and it 'drooped'. If you ever tried to put more than 2 people in it and drive on gravel road or anything other than level road, the exhaust would drag. Just lots more car there than there was suspension.
Sold it when I decided other more comfortable and powerful cars would give same or better milage and be faster, quieter, smoother, handle better, etc.
Consumer Reports tested a '67 or '68 Valiant with a 225 and 2.94 gearing, and got 0-60 in 13 seconds. They also tested a '68 Dart 270 with the 225, but 2.76 gearing, and got 0-60 in 14 seconds. I think the Dart was also about 100 lb heavier.
Before we all start laughing, though, keep in mind that these cars, and their competition, were lucky if they turned numbers that good with V-8's by 1975 or so!
Somewhere in the 70's, I think 2.45 also became the gear ratio of choice for most Mopars in general. My '79 Newport 318 had that gear ratio. It wasn't too fast off the line, but had no problem cruising at 100 mph. The speedometer only went up to 85, but I found out courtesy of a speed trap that it read about 20% slow. Needless to say, that courtesy didn't come cheap ;-)
How bad did mileage get in the 70's, anyway? I remember a few years back, at a gas station, I was chatting with a guy that had a '74 or so Valiant with a 225. I had my '68 Dart 318 at the time. I was complaining about my mileage (about 13 city, 17 highway), but he said that's about all he got!
-Andre
PS: my '69 GT 225 was a good cruiser, too. Had no problem loafing along at 100 mph, and did it a lot quieter than my '68 318 did (although the mileage may have made a difference here...bought the '69 with 49K on it...the '68 with 253K!)
They came out in 1950 on Powerglide equipped Chevys. By 1953 all the Chevys had them.
A whole lot better than the old babbit bearing 216's although they were pretty tough too.
1962 was the final year for the 235.
On the downside, they had a tendency to burn oil as well as leak oil.
The old "rope" rear main seal was usually the problem.
It's been a scream to drive, though the linkage on the 3 speed is so worn out, it's always been a problem.
Finally replaced the starter about 2 years ago.The old one had been going out since the very beginning,but finally got real bad[relatively]. No trouble cranking now.
Had the trunk re-welded, the only place where rust developed [the rear window gaskets shrink and let water in],and currently it's in getting the door latch replacement installed. It'll stay at the body shop until the fender panel arrives which they'll replace where I've bondoed the lower rear fender. Got both the new fender panel and the used door latch from Layson's who are making new parts for the early gen. "A" bodies including a new "Z" bar for the shift mechanism which is coming soon, They have a repair kit for the thing available now, with all the little plastic pieces and rubber bushings.I'll wait till the new piece comes out and get the complete set up.
Funny; all the newer cars attempt to avoid being "stuck" behind some slow old "heap"at a stop light. Can't tell you all how many times I've left them well behind in the "faster" lane.
So, it's gone from being glared at on the freeway to people grinning and pointing and waving.Sometimes it's the oldest car on the road for miles. Not bad for the CA. freeways where everyone drives between 70 and 85mph.
Sometimes if you hold onto something long enough...........................Great posts here,I've really enjoyed reading them.
On the flip side, I occasionally use a pretty rough '74 Dodge pickup, and suffer the same derision that I so generously bestow. 'Keeps ya humble.
I love to see old cars on the road, especially if they are kept reasonably nice and are safe.
I picked up on this when my wife followed one of the last older cars I owned, a '68 Cougar with lots of miles on it but with what I thought was a reasonably tight engine. It wasn't an obvious polluter but what came out the tailpipes was so bad it was like she was following a diesel. Yet the car ran great with a rebuilt carb and recent tune-up. I think it had even passed smog--this was in the early '80s before it hit 20 years.
I don't remember this back in the '60s. Did all cars then start burning oil and running rich after a few years especially if they needed a tune-up, and we were just used to inhaling their fumes? Or are most of the survivors on their last legs? I know newer engines run so clean their emissions can be cleaner than the air they inhale.
This isn't a knock on older cars or their owners. I sure wish I had that 4 speed XR-7 back.
Usually, I can sniff out the worst offenders, and, more often than not, they're some beat up clunker from the 70's/80's/early-mid 90's that's on its last legs and needs to be shot.
I think to an extent, maybe we've also just gotten used to cleaner running cars. For instance, all those years my Dart was my daily driver, it never bothered me, but I've driven it around on occasion lately, and now I notice it.
And, come to think of it, the night I bought my Intrepid and parked it in the garage, my roommate came home and could actually smell it...that new car smell. The next night, I had my DeSoto in there, and you could smell it as well. That not-so-new car smell!
-Andre
'Had the Spyder out yesterday, and managed to get behind every Diesel dump truck and school bus in northern Ohio. That's progress.
Yesterday, I listened to the Mamas and Papas on the radio....Monday Monday...All of a sudden it hit me!! That song was Number One THIRTY FIVE YEARS AGO !!! Am I old!
BTW, the latest Car Craft has an 80's or 90's Firebird Cover Story and shows it in front of One Day Paint and Body. That's where my Valiant is at this very moment. Already had a car painted there and was impressed with their work as is CC apparently. MET-IC-U-LOUS work. Saw a 57 Continental MK II they were working on there. Amazing for the price....and I own 50 shares of Earl Scheib!!!!
I really can't explain it, except that people do stupid things around an old car. The day I brought my DeSoto home, some mid-life crisis comb-over in a Porsche passed me on my (then) home street, a narrow 2-lane road with ditches on both sides, a solid yellow line...AND he did it at the top of a blind hill!! And I was doing the speed limit, if not a little above.
I also have a friend with a '66 Charger. He just came back to MD from some Charger convention in Missouri. He was telling me that some dude in a Porsche pulled up beside him on the highway, shook his head in disgust, and then darted ahead, got over in front of him, and slowed down!
Sometimes, I think it's kind of a "grudge" match, kind of like how the stereotypical SUV and minivan owners often despise each other. It might be kind of an "old" versus "new" thing!
Still doesn't explain though what the lady in the beat-up Dodge Colt though she had on me one day when she ran a stop sign to beat me in my Dart! You could see the sense of accomplishment on her face, even! But boy was she mad out on the open road when I stomped it and blew past her!! (Not that that's much an accomplishment for me...probably could have done it with a couple of spark plugs removed ;-)
-Andre
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/2167/57desoto.gif
If it doesn't work, give me your email address and I'll shoot you a pic of it. Mine is jgandrew@hotmail.com
I think a lot of the time, people want to get around your car to see what the front of it looks like, especially if it's something that isn't too common anymore. Still, it's aggravating!
One day, I was accelerating onto the highway in the rain, and a Metro of all cars sped up to cut me off! Kinda made me think of an old Speed Racer episode where this monstrous truck was in the race, and smeared a little Pacer-looking car into the side of a cliff! But, since I'm a nice guy, there are no resulting paint chips in the DeSoto, and no smeared Metro-kill!
-Andre
I know the feeling. I've been parallel with a 90's Pontiac Sunbird and the driver and his friend kept looking over trying to figure out what kind of car it was....this on the downhill 2 lane side of twisty Laurel Canyon.
Went to Pep Boys for some new wiper blades and the guy at the service bays didn't know what it was!!It's always funny to watch at the lube places and car washes when the guys get into it and realize they've never seen a 3 speed manual trans, much less one on the column!!!
When I get a scanner, I'll post Mothra's progress in the paint and body dept.So for the time being,I'm going to have the ultimate "reverse chic" vehicle.Turns out I can't do the paint work yet[just body work] credit card out of control a bit and I'm getting a little nervous having that hanging over my head. That and a 50 year old house...the minute I spend money on something really special[non essential],I can almost bank on the toilet or water heater exploding!!!
I look at the tiny little 4 in my Cavalier and then at that /6 in the Valiant, the 6 looks like it belongs somewhere pumping oil out of the ground rather than pulling a car around. Dave
Around 1968, I was a kid working part time in a gas station. An "old" guy (probably 50) was selling his mother's 1957 De Soto Fireflight. It was a four door, two tone green, and it had something like 35,000 miles on it. Looked and ran perfect. He was asking 200.00 for it.
I've seen an identical model in horrible shape that has been on it's last legs for years. Some old guy drives it and it's bad.Now it's got a huge dent in the hood, like someone landed there in the middle of a drunken brawl. Thought it had finally died because I haven't seen it for awhile, then saw it coming down Laurel Canyon as I was going home from work. Same old geezer, same old car....ME in another 15 years????? Dave
[of course the 50 Studebaker and 53 Ford my parents drove at that time cuold have something to do with it!!!].
Looks like a total beater.I figure after 20 years it deserves a new paint job with REAL automotive paint instead of household lacquer!!!
He's coming along nicely. Trunk rewelded and sealed, brand new repro lower right rear fender panel welded in and as soon as I save the cash a new paint job.Have to decide on color: White or it's original red. I'm not a stickler for originality and I've only known the car as white, plus it's an outside [with a cover] car in desert [San Fernando Valley]heat.
Red would be nice, but:shows a lot of flaws if the body work is less than stellar [it's being done by a professional franchise whose work I know,but cost IS a factor!]it fades more quickly than white, red is a cop magnet [though I've heard this is an urban legend]and there are only a few reds that I really like [ones with an orange base as opposed to blue/purple].
Chrysler had a white called "Spinnaker White" that was almost nice enough to want to eat!!! [hey, no lead anymore why worry!]and a beautiful grey that went on the 78 79 Le Barons that was real elegant that would be a possibility.And two tone is a possibility, though I know that wasn't an option in 63.Red over white with the red interior?
Am not changing the color underneath so...[that's never been a problem in all these years anyway, and I'm never going to sell it in this lifetime sooooo...]but that would make the red under the trunk lid more logical and acceptable.
This isn't a frame off, okay? So please don't be horrified at my choices. This ia a weekend/daily driver I want to look good and do right by as my budget allows. THX, Dave
I've only had two cars repainted in my lifetime, and I repainted them both their original colors. The first was my '69 Dart GT, which was beige, and then my '68 Dart, which is antique white (but was primer-black when I bought it). Both cars sat outside and were never garaged. The '69 was painted in 1990, and the last time I saw it in the local junkyard, 1995, the paint still looked pretty good. I had wrecked it in early 1992, so obviously it hadn't been washed or waxed from that point on! The '68 was repainted about 8 years ago, and still looks shiny.
I'll have to post some pics of my other cars, past and present, sometime. Both of my Darts looked really nice, although the '68 has been hit about 5 or 6 times since the repaint, and the rear 1/4 panels are pretty rusty, so it's not much to look at now.
As for "originality" how's this? My '68 has the interior carpet and door panels from my '69 GT, and seats out of some early 70's A-body (not sure what though, but they fit!). The driver's side door came off my '69 GT, and so did the gas tank. The driver's side fender came off a blue '68 270 4-door in the junkyard.
There's a Valiant like your that I see all the time on my way to work, a light-blue hardtop coupe. It's in beautiful shape, and really looks too good to be parked out on the street!
Anyway, good luck with Mothra. I'm sure out there in the dry desert climate, he should last forever!
PS: I think a white body with a red roof would look nice. And antique or off-white should hide body work better than a harsher, Arctic-type white!
His parents have a 1974 or so Dart sedan with a rare manual floor shift. It's still in pretty good shape, but interestingly, rusted out worse on the passenger side than the driver's side. His theory was that because it was always parked on the street, that side got more moisture from grass clippings getting thrown against it, water runoff along the curb, etc.
But if you're in the desert, Dave, I don't know what Mothra's excuse is ;-)
Saw a 63 Canadian Valiant on my way home. Val front, Dart rear. Thrashed a little, but the rear fenders were gone. BLACK paint hides a lot of flaws too, it seems.
Thx for the website. I'll check it out this afternoon.Manual 4 door!!! It happens.
Mine came only with radio heater and I'm certain whitewalls-the basics. Somewhere along the way, an under dash air conditioner was added, which still works, but isn't connected electrically because the upholstery/nursery that did the headliner tore out the wire...I should have KNOWN, eh?
I haven't put more than 10,000 miles on the rebuilt engine I put in 10 or 11 years ago, but when I replaced the original it was getting 50 miles to the quart of oil and had NEVER run more smoothly. Two other cars have come and gone since[an 84 Citation and an 86 Olds Calais- still in the family] because I wanted the peace of mind of automatic in LA traffic and because that shift linkage on the column shift has NEVER been right, though I believe it is FINALLY repaired properly. [Thankfully I have a replacement and new bushings,gaskets and springs or misc. pieces are being made again. Will have to stock pile for the future, I think!]
Now I'll be able to drive it regularly [it's been scabby looking for months]and it'll look real good going down the road again!
I love it, solid vehicle, but it grows more weird every day. Unless people are of a certain age, no one knows what it is. That's kind of fun. The 63 could be taken for a Rambler or a Studebaker [and has been].
A few months ago, when I used to deliver pizzas part time, I mentioned something about my Dart. The kids in the store just looked at me like I was crazy or something. Kinda sad, isn't it? The Dart nameplate went on some 3 million+ compact cars (not including the big '60'-62 models), and was one of the most popular nameplates Chrysler ever used, and these kids had no idea what I was talking about! I wasn't even going to try explaining the word "DeSoto" to them!
Good luck with Mothra...hope he emerges from that cocoon like a beautiful butterfly!
To me it's just not possible to believe that the world only started when I was born!!! LOL
PS looks as good as that red and black 63 Signet convertible I see all over town [at least paint wise!!!] Hubba hubba!
About 8 or 9 years ago a colleague from work was on a business trip in Virginia and saw a 1964 Valiant Signet convertible with 225 for sale. His mother had one when new and he drove it his last two years in college. Anyway, this one in Virginia had a 273 V8 with automatic transmission, red with white top just like his moms. He still has that car and it now has over 200K on the drivetrain.
Dusty
Sometimes an engine is just a "lucky" design. Every drain hole, every passage way for water, oil and fuel is just kind of "right". I think the Slant 6 was like that.
Why do you think they used nylon, anyway?