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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I assure you, Hyundai's depreciation and/or resale will improve, in fact it already has over the past several years.

    Those who know me know I am normally not cynical, but in this case, I'm liable to be accused of it but am saying it anyway.

    It really had nowhere to go but up, did it?

    It's quality has improved greatly in the last 5 years, IMO. Reliability won't be known for several more years, when the current one-year old Sonatas are 5-10 years old. Interior quality has gone way WAY up though, and that can be seen and felt currently in the Sonata/Azera that I've sat in.
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Member Posts: 992
    AWD?

    -Cj :)
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,602
    Grad, yes the reliability for the current generation ('06 & '07) won't be known for a few years. But the prior generation, '99 (or was it 2000) through '05 has a good track record, with minor improvements each year, as does most any generation car which had been around for a few years.

    I've been for a ride in the Azera Limited (ultimate pkg)and it is awesome. Interior, exterior, performance and ride. Quite a car for the price. Dare I say that it is much more car than a top of the line Accord at about the same MSRP? :shades:

    I know you like your Accords, and deservedly so.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    After all, purchasing a 2007 Sonata Limited, as compared to a Accord V6 already gives the Sonata buyer a several thousand dollar buffer using the price numbers I previously posted. Calculate the price a new Accord EX with V6, leather, etc., and equate it to the $18,465 for the Sonata Limited.

    You seem to be forgetting about something. If you buy the Accord EX V6 w/leather, you will be driving a higher quality car for 12 years, than a Sonata limited. Are you actually claiming the Sonata is the same quality? You may think so, but I definitely don't.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    That was written tongue in cheek as to the assertions the people don't get the fact the they pay what they think the cars are worth to them, while others think certain cars are overpriced. As other people have been asserting, they think one gets what one pays for.
  • tibtuscanitibtuscani Member Posts: 46
    The new accord is UGLY, the interior is nice then the sonata though. Sonata quality is equal if not better then the accord, have you noticed Hyundai Improving sales/quality/reliability while Honda is going down?
    http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060608/FREE/60607007/1041
    Hyundai has less problems then Honda as well.
    and Hyundai is backing it up with 10 year/ 100K mile warranty.
  • ykangykang Member Posts: 88
    "You seem to be forgetting about something. If you buy the Accord EX V6 w/leather, you will be driving a higher quality car for 12 years, than a Sonata limited."
    Are you kidding? I have had three Honda cars. 1986 CRX (best), 1991 Integra (very good), 2005 Accord EX-V6 (worst). I was so disappointed about build quality. Here is my evaluation. 2005 Accord EX-V6. Engine & Transmission: excellent, Interior design: very good, Exterior design: acceptable, Gas Mileage: very good but I had to give up my accord despite all the good things. You know why? Build quality sucks. Honda should do something about build quality otherwise they will keep loose customers. :mad:
  • kwonc71kwonc71 Member Posts: 245
    Did I say Kia and Hyundai are the best? My first Kia, 1998 Sephia had many little problems and it was a Junk. Most of all, brake noise problem went on. However, that Junk never stopped running while I was driving the car.

    Have owned 3 kias and 2 hyundais so far , and have not had stalling problems on any one of those. Last Hyundai Sonata had 62,000 miles on it when I trade in. Never had to turn ignition twice.

    A/C problem make you sweat, Stalling problem make you bleed. You can't compare those two.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    I don't think there will be a "line" for Fusions. You won't have to get up early, to beat the crowd.

    That's funny, but all the local Ford dealers can't keep the Fusions in stock. In fact, a dealer near me has about 4-5 different Fusion models on the lot, and they're GONE the next week, replaced by newer models. This has happened ever since the Fusion was introduced.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    Are you actually claiming the Sonata is the same quality? You may think so, but I definitely don't.

    I guess we'll find out in 12 years, considering that they've been doing well in initial quality studies for the past few years. It wouldn't surprise me if Hyundai does do well, their product has been impressive lately.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Yes, you did say Hyundai and Kia were better than Acura. Price independent, I would rather own an Acura than one of these two. You stated you have never been stranded in either of these car. I think you're lucky. Acuras are known for their quality and reliability.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    That's funny, but all the local Ford dealers can't keep the Fusions in stock

    That's not the case in where I live. When I was at my local Ford dealer for a test drive the parking lot was filled by Fusion. Maybe in the heartland the Fusion is selling like hot cakes but I am willing to put down money on saying that's not the case in the coastal states.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Anybody whom thinks Hyundai and Kia (Kia!!!) are better than Acura is OUT OF HIS MIND! Price independent nor dependent. Hyundai is comparable to Nissan, Toyota and Honda (even that's pushing it a little bit) but is definitely not in the same class as Acura. People compare Acura to Lexus, infiniti or even BMW BUT DEFINITELY NOT HYUNDAI. Those Hyundai fanboys need to cool their head and start thinking straight. Maybe in Korea Hyundai is DA BOMB (since more than 90% of the car in Korea is Hyundai anyway) but NOT EVERYWHERE ELSE.
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    It's quality has improved greatly in the last 5 years, IMO.

    Agreed. However, it took a quantum leap in the 06 model year. It lept squarely into the realm of Toyota and Honda, and surpassed the rest.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    That's funny, but all the local Ford dealers can't keep the Fusions in stock.

    The same thing was going on around here, Western PA, during the MY switchover. A quick inventory check shows that most dealers have somewhere between 5 and 10 '07 Fusions on their lots currently. Some AWD copies are even available. If you want a left-over '06 then don't come around here because they're all gone save for a few "strippers". I see them everywhere on the road now so people are buying them. Not at Accord/Camry levels but I'm sure Ford is pleased.

    In fact, my dad was looking for a Fusion last month to replace his '96 Sable but couldn't find one he liked anywhere. He ended up with a Zephyr instead and loves it.
  • lweisslweiss Member Posts: 342
    I think the Ford Fusion will continue to be a good seller for Ford not only for its own attributes, but because there are lots of good Ford dealers around and it is just about the only good "car" that Ford sells in North America for now- the Crown Vic is for oldies (and cops!), the Focus is in serious need of an upgrade, and the Taurus is going away (except for rental cars, right?). Ford needs another solid hit for their cars in North America, their truck and mid/large size SUV sales are in the tank. At least on the coasts, I don't know about the heartland, South.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I've been for a ride in the Azera Limited (ultimate pkg)and it is awesome. Interior, exterior, performance and ride. Quite a car for the price. Dare I say that it is much more car than a top of the line Accord at about the same MSRP? :)

    I know you like your Accords, and deservedly so.


    It is a lot of car for the money; the same way that a loaded Civic costs the same as a loaded Sonata V6... screaming value! I still feel like the Sonata is the best value they've got going right now.

    Yes, I do like my Accords, as we've had a great track record with them, but I'm not hypnotized by them as one poster seems to think all Honda/Toyota owners are. If the Sonata had been nicer inside (Mainly its the only thing I find fault with in the Sonata), I might be driving one of those instead, with some money in the bank. I did like the Sonata better than the Fusion, however; interior anyway. I LOVE the interior of my Accord though, and couldn't be happier with it. I think Hyundai has jumped squarely into the midsize battle with that car, and rightfully so.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    I can sort of attest to that. I have a less than 1 month old Accord. Besides the intermittent rattles now I found a corner of the rubber seal on one of the doors came off! :mad: Either they forgot to glue it at the factory or did a sloppy job with it.

    Like you I love the drive train and everything else, but the build quality so far has been a huge disappointment.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I guess it was built at 4:30PM on a Friday? ;)
  • prosource1prosource1 Member Posts: 234
    Noone would dispute Acura's reputation but I was shocked when I found out that one of my clients new Acura MDX's master cylinder on her brakes failed. It was covered under warranty but it happened in commute and left her stranded. She was not impressed and was confused that this happened to her near $40k SUV.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Do you know the year/miles on the vehicle?

    I had my master cylinder develop a leak on my 1996 Accord, but it had 156,000 miles at the time.
  • luvmbootyluvmbooty Member Posts: 271
    I was thinking of buying a 2004 or 2005 model. Besides the Accord, Camry, Malibu, or Altima were there any other models that had over 100 cubic feet interior?

    Did they all have ABS and front and rear disc brakes? Which offered side curtain airbags and/or traction control?

    I think the Accord would be my best bet. Was the 2004 Accord's crash tests better for 2004 than 2005-6? Why? I've looked on Autotrader.com and the Accords prices were lower than the Camry's. I don't think the Malibu is dependable and too many Altimas where I live.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    As I understand auto manufacture plants operate 24 hrs a day. So it shouldn't matter what time a car is made in terms of build quality.
  • chrisfordchrisford Member Posts: 55
    Maybe in the heartland the Fusion is selling like hot cakes but I am willing to put down money on saying that's not the case in the coastal states.

    You must be on another planet. I live in Brooklyn, NY and the dealerships next to me can't keep up with the demand. Stating your opinion about the Fusion doesn't make it a fact.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    Why buy used when you can get a new car for the same price, sometimes even LESS if you're thinking used Hondas. A new 4-cy Sonata is probably the best value if you don't mind driving a Hyundai. It's got every safety feature standard and the best warranty to boot.
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Member Posts: 508
    You know, we all fight over Camry v. Accord v. Fusion v. Sonata. And for good reason, those are the segment leaders (pretty much in that order).

    But you know whats funny? Nobody EVER talks about cars like the Mitsubishi Galant and the Subaru Legacy. I wonder how those vehicles stack up? I've never driven either so I can't say, though I don't care for the Galant's looks.

    By the way, when I was first looking at an Accord EX V6, I did shop the Azera Limited, but the price was about $2500 more an the Honda so I ruled it out. Both cars were a good bit off MSRP though.

    As for Fusion availability, I think you need to factor in that we're at the point in the year when dealer invetory is at its low, because of the MY switchoever. The '06s have been sold (hopefully) and the '07s are slowly being delivered. So right now, its a little tough to judge. The Camry is a little different, just because the '07 production started much earlier. Even then, dealers around me that had 40 Camry's now only have 15-18. And if you want a Camry Hybrid, forget it. They were tough to find before, now they're nearly impossible. I bought mine when I did because of the federal tax incentive change and the VA HOV rule change, but if I hadn't, I really couldn't have gotten one. Some dealers still have 06 Honda Accord Hybrids, though, and some of them are have in inventory for nearly 12 months.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Wow. You mean someone was confused that a car, a human built mechanical device, left them stranded? Any car, any price range, any make, any model has the potential. Lexus, BMW, Ferrari, Bugatti, Hyundai, Kia, Buick. All of these manufacturers have produced cars that have left people stranded.

    For the most part cars that leave people stranded are the exception rather than the rule in any price range. I would still rather "take" my chances with an Acura than with a Hyundai or Kia. As louiswei said: "Anyone that confuses the two is OUTTA THEIR MIND"
  • 03accordman03accordman Member Posts: 671
    You must be on another planet. I live in Brooklyn, NY and the dealerships next to me can't keep up with the demand. Stating your opinion about the Fusion doesn't make it a fact.

    No doubt the Fusion is doing well; its a long time since Ford has a capable midsize car available.

    However, I sincerely doubt that dealers can't keep up with the demand; that would mean they are selling close to MSRP without any rebates, which does not seem to be the case.
  • 03accordman03accordman Member Posts: 671
    The new accord is UGLY, the interior is nice then the sonata though. Sonata quality is equal if not better then the accord, have you noticed Hyundai Improving sales/quality/reliability while Honda is going down?

    Beauty is subjedctive; I happened to love the looks of my now departed 03 Accord LX. The interior fit and finish is way better than the Sonata. I don't really see where Honda is going down; all of its cars/SUVs are doing well and it is a very healthy company.
  • cajuncyclercajuncycler Member Posts: 172
    I'm with you on those points. I have driven Fords over the years and had a 91 Ford pickup I got used and I can't complain much about them other than gas mileage. And these were cars many years ago of which I speak. I have always loved the Mustang in all but the the 74 Mustang II version based on the pinto plan, Just never found them practical enough to buy given my situation and priorities over the years. Had a Pontiac Firebird in my 20s and loved it. Anyway I digress.. One reason I no longer read Motor Trend or even watch their programs anymore is that they do tend to tell you what to think and how to feel about a car instead of judging it on its merits of practicality and value. Most of these rags push leather interiors and being in the south, leather is far too hot, sticky and wears too fast to be practical in my opinion. I prefer cloth and not the kind that feels like corduroy either. Why do these magazines seem to road test only the expensive cars? Do they all think we are Kennedy's and Rockefeller's? :confuse:
  • cajuncyclercajuncycler Member Posts: 172
    Yeah you may be right but I have better places to spend huge sums of cash than on a four wheel conveyance with a pricey name. I will stack my Korean DA Bomb against the ritzy-mobile over time and see who fairs better. If you got the green to pluck down every two or three years on a new car fine. I prefer NOT to have a perpetual car note in my future. Otherwise spending exorbitant amounts of your income on gadget-mobiles is your thang then have it your way. Nobody's gonna stop you. Besides I'm not getting excited about it, you're the one typing in caps. :P
  • cajuncyclercajuncycler Member Posts: 172
    You seem to be forgetting about something. If you buy the Accord EX V6 w/leather, you will be driving a higher quality car for 12 years, than a Sonata limited. Are you actually claiming the Sonata is the same quality? You may think so, but I definitely don't.

    Yeah I will go out on a limb and say without a doubt the quality is equal. I bought a Toyota Tercel in 1983 for the gas savings. When I saw the car and after I bought it I thought it looked fragile and would not last beyond the 5 years I financed it. How wrong I was, the car never let me down, the interior stayed intact despite two rowdy small kids and the kicker...They both drove it through high school, 8 total years of high school before I traded it in in 98 for a mini van. The Sonata is every bit as well made as that little Toyota was and has higher quality components from the start. It is a big, solid comfortable quiet car and I expect it will be long after the final payment is made in 3-1/2 years. Your post is pure snobbery.

    BTW, all these posts putting down the Ford Fusion are also biased. Ford has been producing reliable cars since the model T. They may not have always been beautiful but to say that Fords are cheap or that they don't compare has never owned one or driven one as a fleet vehicle. Fords are hard to kill and I suspect when the dust settles on Dearborn when they are though restructuring, Ford will still be making quality cars in another hundred years. Yes at times they were utilitarian and to some still are. But Fords bad cars? No way.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "practicality and value"

    If I wanted practicality and value I would get a Hyundai Accent. Anything else and you are overpaying. (I like to overpay. :sick )
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Member Posts: 992
    "No doubt the Fusion is doing well; its a long time since Ford has a capable midsize car available"

    I agree. I never heard anyone say: "So do you like my taurus, its got a v6 and ac. I saw 45 of them at Hertz..."

    LOL!

    Personally the fusion sucks when compared to its twins. I rather save $100 and buy a milan! The milan primer has a much better interior than a Fusion SEL.

    "So how about that taurus?"

    -Cj :D :P
  • thesniperthesniper Member Posts: 44
    "Anybody whom thinks Hyundai and Kia (Kia!!!) are better than Acura is OUT OF HIS MIND! Price independent nor dependent. Hyundai is comparable to Nissan, Toyota and Honda (even that's pushing it a little bit) but is definitely not in the same class as Acura. People compare Acura to Lexus, infiniti or even BMW BUT DEFINITELY NOT HYUNDAI. Those Hyundai fanboys need to cool their head and start thinking straight. Maybe in Korea Hyundai is DA BOMB (since more than 90% of the car in Korea is Hyundai anyway) but NOT EVERYWHERE ELSE."

    Take it easy... a Hyundai fan here compared his beloved Sonata to a BMW before.

    Conclusion: Sonata has a better paint, fit and finish.
  • elkeinelkein Member Posts: 19
    Ford needs another solid hit for their cars in North America, their truck and mid/large size SUV sales are in the tank. At least on the coasts, I don't know about the heartland, South.

    Actually the trucks aren't selling worth a nickel here in the midwest either... It's called market satuaration, even though some trucks actually get used as trucks around here, everyone that needs one has got one( I bought a '97 F150 new too.) The current bloated F150 will be going away very soon, in favor of a better milage design, the current model should have been released in 1999, but whatever... 20/20 hindsight
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    The Sonata is every bit as well made as that little Toyota was and has higher quality components from the start.

    So you are comparing a Sonata to a 93 Tercel. That's really impressive. Can it beat a 93 Escort too?
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "Conclusion: Sonata has a better paint, fit and finish."

    Saying it just doesn't make so. While one easily believe anything they choose, in the real world it just isn't like that.
  • guestguest Member Posts: 770
    "Why do these magazines seem to road test only the expensive cars? Do they all think we are Kennedy's and Rockefeller's? "

    I agree %110!! I have written over and over to both Motor Trend and Car and Driver and have asked the same questions. (Never get an answer) :confuse: I am sure they know the average income of Americans cannot in no way afford A BMW 5 series! or a Lotus! Yet, over and over again they constantly go heavy on the luxo cars/SUV's, exotics. What about the average joe looking for an economy car?? or a van?
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    "Why do these magazines seem to road test only the expensive cars? Do they all think we are Kennedy's and Rockefeller's? "

    I agree %110!! I have written over and over to both Motor Trend and Car and Driver and have asked the same questions. (Never get an answer) :confuse: I am sure they know the average income of Americans cannot in no way afford A BMW 5 series! or a Lotus! Yet, over and over again they constantly go heavy on the luxo cars/SUV's, exotics. What about the average joe looking for an economy car?? or a van?
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Hate to burst your bubble on the Taurus, but Ford is having a hard time killing it because of DEMAND. Both from rental compainies and the private sector. Also, take a look at the dependability ratings of the Taurus at MSN auto! Surprise! Just as good as an Accord or Camry. Its all image my friend...
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    So you are saying a Taurus is just as good as car as a Accord or Camry. Ride is better or equal, fit and finish are better or equal, resale is better or equal.

    I also think you're implying the Taurus is better than the Sonota as well. I may be missing the big picture, but price independent or price dependent the Accord and Camry are way better and it has nothing to with image. It has to do with Honda vs Ford.
  • kwonc71kwonc71 Member Posts: 245
    Go back and read my post again. I said " I have not have such (stalling) problems even on cheap Kias and Hyundais". Are you still confused there?
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Not confused at all. My response to your post stating you have not had any issues, was that I know people with both makes (Hyundai and Kia) that have left them stranded on the road. I then went on to say thankfully nobody was injured. I then said, there wasn't a manufacturer on the face of the earth that built a car that hasn't left someone stranded.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    "So you are saying a Taurus is just as good as car as a Accord or Camry. Ride is better or equal, fit and finish are better or equal, resale is better or equal.

    I also think you're implying the Taurus is better than the Sonata as well. I may be missing the big picture, but price independent or price dependent the Accord and Camry are way better and it has nothing to with image. It has to do with Honda vs Ford. "

    Wow! quick post..

    Nope, just opening your eyes to this whole reliability thing you got going on. Burst the bubble huh? did I? Obviously you looked, or I wouldn't have gotten a response like this. A Taurus SES V6 loaded is about $5,000 to $8,000 dollars less than a comparably equipped Accord EX V6... for starters..

    Honda is better in your mind don't forget. I owned an Accord at one point and saw nothing, absolutely nothing that was so great about it. ;)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "Wow! quick post..

    Nope, just opening your eyes to this whole reliability thing you got going on. Burst the bubble huh? did I? Obviously you looked, or I wouldn't have gotten a response like this. A Taurus SES V6 loaded is about $5,000 to $8,000 dollars less than a comparably equipped Accord EX V6... for starters.."

    Yeah, tonight's my night on Edmunds. :)

    No I didn't go to MSN to verify. That fact that a $10,000 car, $20,000 car, $40,000 car or $100,000 all have good reliability has nothing to do with anything relating to if I like one car better or another and why. For me, it's a given, most modern vehicles have decent reliability and are not prone to leaving you stranded. With the exception of my BMW, which I took in once a year for service, I expect to bring cars into the dealer for routine maintenance a few times a year. I expect cars to have minor issues that need to be fixed. I don't have to review JD Powers or Consumers Report before purchasing any vehicle, I get what I like and fix what needs to be fixed.

    Having said all that, Honda is not better in my mind, it is just better period. Yes, I owned a Honda also and saw nothing that was so great. It just plodded along. But I also owned a Taurus and saw nothing that liked about it. It just plodded along also, with $$$$ in repairs. But times have changed, and now I think the Accord is the best mid-size family sedan out there.
  • kwonc71kwonc71 Member Posts: 245
    I also had 1988 Acura integra also stalling sometimes too. I did not care because it had 130,000 miles, leaked oil everywhere, and I was driving myself. MDX with 48,000 miles stalling while my wife and infant on board was different story.
    So, I had 2 Acuras stalling, 5 Kiadais not stalling. Pure luck?
    You have to understand that I am talking about cars that I have owned, not every Acura and Kiadais on the road.

    http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060608/FREE/60607007/1041

    If you want to talk about majority of people's experiences, lets use above result.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    The IQS has nothing to do with anything. It only measures the cars off the factory floor. You must be the unlucky person to get the two bad cars Acura ever produced. From that you made a generalization Acura is unreliable?

    Honestly, I could see how it is you came to that conclusion, I'd be annoyed also. You beat the odds by getting two malfunctioning cars from the same manufacturer. But that doesn't take away the reputation for reliability and quality Acura has. And Hyundai making gains in the IQS doesn't mean it doesn't produce crappy cars that leave people stranded on the road either.
  • thesniperthesniper Member Posts: 44
    "Saying it just doesn't make so. While one easily believe anything they choose, in the real world it just isn't like that."

    I know, it was his conclusion and I did not buy it. IMO, just because Hyundai has made significant improvements over its products, some fans think it is set to rule the automotive world. No wonder comment like "trouble in Honda/Toyota land" is common. Well, the sales of these two car companies are steadily going up and I can't see the trouble with that.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    You also have to admit that result above that has nothing to do with my experience or my opinions.

    Initial quality could be won by any car. Most cars are good for the first year. Why doesn't JD Power do a 10 year quality survey. Then we could find out who the real winners are. Oh yeah, we already have 10 year quality ratings, It's called resale value. 97 Honda Accord $8,600.... 97 Hyundai Sonata $4,850... We have a new winner!
This discussion has been closed.