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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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My experience so far with my 06 GLS I4 auto has been great. But only several years of driving will tell me definitively if it is as good as my 1992 Honda Accord.
In the interim you will just have to gamble like the rest of us. But my guess was, and is, that it is a very good car!
Good Luck!
Some 06 V6 Sonata's (including mine) have a "k-thunking" noise in the rear suspension when running over potholes. Hyundai is developing a simple fix for it by replacing the rear shock bushings. I'm waiting on my dealer to call me when the bushings are in. Once fixed, my car will be flawless. The 06 4cyl and none of the 07's have this suspension noise.
If you can get a V6 for near the price I got mine ($16,600+TT&L) then it's by far the best buy in its class.
Whoa there. Have these cars tested at the same time under the same road conditions and I'll guarantee you the difference will be more than 0.2 seconds.
Here are my rankings for interiors:
Passat/Jetta
Camry
Accord
Sonata
Milan/Fusion
Altima (current model)
I like what I see from photos of the new Altima but I haven't seen the car in person. The Aura is another new car I haven't seen in person yet. The interior of the new cirrus doesn't look promising from photos I have seen.
In a way, though, the Aura is sort of what the next gen Intrigue would have been, so I suppose its a fitting mixup. The Intrigue was, imo, the best looking GM midsize ever put together. For a while, I really loved it (great engine, transmission, good driving dynamics), but, alas, the reliability bug began to bit it, and when it rained, it poured. Like a pretty girl you fall for and it turns out she sleeps around on you, but you can't quite let it go. After 4 years I did, and got my Camry Hybrid.
1)Why is it soo loud and clunky sounding when accelerating(louder than sonata, accord, camry, aura)?
2)If the 3lv6 in the fusion is soo good, why did the change the v6 in the MKZ(aka Zypher) to 3.5l?
3)Why is everybody comparing the fusions 0-60 times so competitively when the fusion weighs soo much less than the competitors?
If someone loads the fusion up to the weight of the accord, then the 3l v6 will feel completely different.
The Fusion's interior is ok but the milans is better.
-cj
Loud maybe, clunky? no..
May want to take a look at the weight of the cars you mentioned. Not a whole lot of difference between Accord/Fusion..
You miss the whole point here. The 3.0 Duratec V6 with VVT is the smallest, lowest HP, lowest torque engine in this class of vehicles. Yet, some cars with 20-40HP more only best the Fusion in 0-60 by tenths of a second. Most will look at HP/Torque ratings and immediatly feel the Fusion is "underpowered" when in truth it isn't. What is going to happen when Ford does put the 3.5 in the Fusion/Milan? Game on!
What do you mean here? Are you saying the Aurora was tested in the rain or snow? Fusion was tested on a nice dry track? Pleeeese.. Just take the numbers and swallow them with a little water... :P
If someone loads the fusion up to the weight of the accord, then the 3l v6 will feel completely different."
I did the research for you on weights of the vehicles..
1. Ford Fusion 3,101
2. Honda Accord 3,128
3. Hyundia Sonata 3,253
4. Nissan Altima 4,202
5. Toyota Camry 3,262
As you can see the majority of these are within 100 lbs or so of the Fusion. Your argument of the Fusion weighing so much less doesn't hold up well. Also, you ask that the Fusion be "loaded with weight" Well, should this be fair and the Honda/Toyota/Saturn, whichever be loaded with the same amount of weight? 5 adults, luggage whichever....?? :shades:
Just face the facts. The little 3.0 in the Fusion holds its own. Granted its not the "BEST" but for having the lowest HP/Torque in its class.. it does just fine..
Fusion: 3,280lbs Sel v6
Accord: 3,435lbs Ex v6
Camry: 3,516lbs Xle v6
Aura: 3,647lbs Xr 3.6 v6
Sonata: 3,458lbs Limited v6
Altima: 3,377lbs SE-R v6
Passat: 3,576lbs 3.6 v6
Heres my link! For altima and passat take off one and add it.
I didn't know ford added AWD to the 2007 fusion as an option. I didn't compare the weight of the AWD fusion. Every pound makes a difference. Trust me, you'll feel the difference. Until ford does add a 3.5l v6 to the fusion, nothing else (other than AWD) will change the performance.
-Cj :P
What do I mean? I have seen 0-60 times for the Accord range from 6.6 to 8.0 and such variances for other mid-size cars. So if you pick and choose your times carefully you can make the Accord look pretty bad.
Wouldn't you agree the best way to compare acceleration times would be at the same time by the same people with the same testing equipment? We'll see who'll be swallowing the numbers if and when the Fusion and Aura are both involved in a comparison test. I'll swallow ALL the numbers in the universe if the difference is 0.02 seconds or less.
0-60 times are mostly a product of engine power, gearing, and overall car weight. It is what it is. No excuses. One can't excuse a car for being slower in the 0-60 because the engine is smaller or the car is heavier. Excuses don't make the car faster.
If anything, the bigger difference here is smoothness/sweetness/loudness of the engines in comparison with each other.
If someone loads the fusion up to the weight of the accord, then the 3l v6 will feel completely different."
I did the research for you on weights of the vehicles..
1. Ford Fusion 3,101
2. Honda Accord 3,128
Your data is inaccurate, biased, and misleading. You are comparing the V6 Fusion weight to the 4 cylinder 2.4L Accord. No fair. Add about 225 lbs for the 3.0 V6 VTEC Honda Engine.
Thank-you! Granted I was off by not using the V6's weight, but.. still the weights are only a few hundred pounds.. the extra 20-40HP and 20-40ft/lbs of torque the other cars output over the V6 in the Fusion should more than make that up! Gee, I wonder what is going to happen when/if the Fusion gets the 3.5? Smokin!! :shades:
And.. the sedans in this class have HP and torque advantages over the Fusion as it is with the additional weight they carry?? Don't you think with their advantage of both HP and Torque this should more than make up the weight differences?? After all some have as much as a 40 HP advantage and a 50 ft/lb torque advantage. Yet, the little 3.0 holds it own by tenths of a second!! I say great job Ford! :P
Well, to be fair to the Camry (the only real competitor in here with a 40+hp advantage (47 to be exact), it ran the 0-60 in 6.1 seconds, much more than a few "tenths" of a second quicker than the Fusion (which I've always seen in the low-mid 7s).
Where Ford obviously did the best was by taking a lot of its styling cues from its 427 (i think!) concept car. This car has lots of style, but it wasn't enough to overcome the interior for me, or I'd be driving one; I think it's better looking than my car on the outside, no doubt. But I felt like my car really shines inside, where it doesn't look dated to me, which is impressive after 4 years on the model cycle. The Fusion, OTOH, looked dated when it came out IMO (the green gauges are reminescent of my 1996 Accord, and the ergonomics aren't as good as that same 1996 either). Just my personal opinion.
I wouldn't think a buying a car without green gauges. Green is the most none distracting color you can have on gauges. Why do you think the military uses green display on most if not all weapons system? Green is easier on the eye, which is what you want from car gauges.
I personally have green (96 Accord) and white (2006 Accord)... both cars are legible, but the 1996 LOOKS like a 10 year old design, and isn't nearly as clear to read as my new-car gauges. It's just my picky nature probably, but I like having something that looks newer when I'm buying a 'new' car. I don't want it to be real comparable to my 11 year old car.
This is only part of the picture though. The Accord's V6 is the same size as the Fusion's engine (3.0L), but it out performs it in every way imaginable. Smoothness, power, torque, and fuel efficiency. It's just a better overall engine. Ford simply doesn't have the technology to make an engine as refined as the Accord's V6, or I4 for that matter.
What is going to happen when Ford does put the 3.5 in the Fusion/Milan?
They may catch up in power and torque, but fuel mileage will really suffer then. If you're going to gain 30 hp, at the expense of 5-10 mpg, it's not a good trade-off, IMO.
The 3.5L engine will make 263 @6250 RPM horsepower, 249 lb-ft of torque @4800 RPMin the Lincoln MKZ (Zephyr). The EPA estimates fuel economy at 19/27, with 18/26 for AWD models.
The MKZ is the same basic vehicle as the Fusion/Milan, so if the Fulan got the 3.5L, it looks like Fuel Economy would drop from its current level of 20/28.
That said, those EPA numbers won't blow anybody away if in the midsize class (most of which offer numbers better than this).
Honda makes better engines than Ford ( I4, or V6 ). That's not speculation, or misinformation. That is the plain truth.
Besides, I find all these arguments about a few percentage points of torque or horsepower or EPA mileage differences of generally 1-3 MPG all a bit stupid. Almost all "normal" drivers who have driven any midsized car with a 200 HP or more engine would likely be hard pressed to require much more. Just try running your Honda Accord to redline every time you accelerate to get into the range of utilizing that 244 HP and see what kind of mileage you will actually obtain.
Buying a good reliable vehicle 3 yrs into its 15 yr lifespan will save the astute buyer 25-50% of the original price.
Hopefully honda will resurrect, clean up, and use the old ATTS (Active Torque Transfer System) from the old prelude(1997-2002) so the accord (at least v6) wont have the TL and TL-s torque-steer. Atts will make the accord sportier and expand the competition line to include the g35, Cts, ect. Atts gave birth to what we know as Sh-awd (Super Handling All Wheel Drive) on the sportier acura models; Rl, 07Mdx, and Rdx. A diesel is also what I expect from honda as well within the next 3 years. If not a hybrid 4cyl will do
-Cj
The whole point of having the V6 Accord is you don't have to run the engine to redline, to get good acceleration. And the extra power is there, when you do need it. The Accord V6 will get better mpg, in either case, than the Fusion V6. "Choice" is good, but "VTEC" is better.
The Navy switched over to low level white floodlights for improved depth perception. For the record, pilots are not supposed to look at the deck (just keep in in their "scan") and concentrate on the glide slope "meatball" and deck centerline. Instrument lighting has transitioned to LOW LEVEL white lighting in aircraft. The trick is to minimize the level of lights on the instruments. Remember, you're driving using "Visual Flight Rules".
The color of the lighting is a factor, but lighting level is much more important. Dim those instrument lights.
No doubt. Look at the engines in the Indy 500 cars. All Hondas. Ford's engines in the Mazda 6 are that car's downfall.
Obviously, you've never driven a 6 with the V6. Not only is the power pretty linear, but it's neither louder, nor any rougher, than any Honda V6 I've ever driven. Granted, I'm biased, because I bought one, but I liked the Honda V6 in the Accord as well, I really did. I just couldn't justify the extra $2K sticker for a similar-equipped car to my 6, or the fact that it cornered like a boat.
OTOH, handling may not be what ALL midsize car buyers are looking for, but neither is power, considering that the majority of Accord, Camry, and even 6 sales are 4-cyl models. Why bother fighting over 0-60 times and HP numbers for 4-DOOR SEDANS anyway?
However, I don't understand who you think one color makes a car look "newer." Maybe you just mean "different"?
Personnaly I like the red. It was easy to see with the top down ('91 Chry.) and is easy on the eyes at night.
The Mazda6 is my second car with red gauges, and I like them. They feel easier on my eyes as well, unlike the green in my wife's Neon. I can't drive her car at night without a bit of eye-strain after long trips. The VW blue works for me as well.
I remember that the fiber optics on my new 1980 Datsun 200SX also blew me away when I first saw them at night. That was pretty cool... some version of orange, I believe. :shades:
Lets say you have a family of four, and own a 130hp sedan. You and your spouse decides to go on the trip. Everyone knows how the majority of women over pack for the occasion most of the time and take up most of the cargo room. As you squeeze everything else into the trunk and go, your car will feel taxed. Try accelerating and boy it will take forever. And if you're late and rushing... Forget it!! LOL!! Thats where having those extra horses will come in handy in a family sedan. You haven't lived in a rush-rush area have you?
"Its better to have them, than to need them and not have them" my dad always says.
-Cj :P
my focus has 14x hp, and can drive up any hill in 5th gear with no problem. no vacation gear packed though. we wouldn't take a sedan with 4 pepople in it on vacation anyway.
Even though I have a family sedan, I still want some power, for passing and merging. Handling is not all that important to me. Driving around town, the 4-cyls are great (gas mileage), but out on the highway the V6 shines.
-cj :P
I should rephrase what I said, because it wasn't as clear as it could've been
Relative to my green gauges in my 1996 Accord, the 2006 Accord's instrument panel is a lot more bold and crisp, even with the dimness turned way down (like it currently is in my car). Even in daylight, the gauges are more vivid and easy to see than basic gauges.
When I said the car seemed newer, dare I say, I meant more "trendy" or up to date?
And yes, I live in a "rush-rush" area. That's why I bought a V6, but my "pathetic" 220 HP can easily keep up with the 260-270 HP Hondas, Toyotas, and Nissans in heavy traffic. But once again, the majority of those vehicles on the road are 4-cyl models anyway, so again, it's not an issue.
Again, these are FAMILY SEDANS. If you're worried about HP and 0-60 times, get a Mustang or 'Vette.
It's the torque values in the usable, actual driving speed ranges that makes a car feel and drive better. The peak horsepower can be greatly manipulated and isn't very useful. Your car, and the gearing used, may be more useable than the others.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
BMW, MB/McLaren, Ferrari, Toyota, Honda. Not sure if Audi and Prosche have engines in F1 but wouldn't be surprised if they do. Last time I checked Ford (as well as GM) doesn't have an engine for F1.
This is already off-topic but here's the breakdown:
Indy: Honda
NASCAR: Chevy, Ford, Dodge and Toyota (currently in Truck series, will enter the Cup series in 2007)
F1: BMW, MB/McLaren, Ferrari, Toyota, Honda, Porsche(?), Audi(?)
Champ Car: Honda, Toyota, Chevy and Ford.
Dash colors.
I have it set to #115 right now and really like it. But it is a bit bright at night and kind of hides the high beam indicator as they are roughly the same color. I'm thinking of switching to something like 431 or 531 next.
Unfortunately the center stack with the radio and HVAC controls does stay green with the exception of the temp dial's hot/cold markings. I don't mind the green though. I had red in the 6 and found it a bit overbearing and we had white in our Civic which didn't seem bright enough. I like the blues and greens that are out right now the best I guess. Not sure what my dad's new Zephyr's gauge colors are or I'd comment on those for comparison sake with the Fusion.