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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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I am lucky as the car decisions get largely left to me, even for her cars, and she is a lot less picky (her only requirement was a manual transmission) so its a lot easier to help her pick something out.
IMPO, Ford, at this point, would be better off getting out of the car business altogether and concentrate on the one thing left they do very well - trucks and SUVs.
Masculine? The Cadillacs come to mind. Very agressive and square. A big black Lucerne certainly isn't "girly" either. Honda? Definately metrosexual. Right in the middle and unfortunately, pretty soulless as a result(though they do have a couple of good looking cars).
Best overall has to go to Mazda. Very nice looking cars and decent sheetmetal work. Not a total jellybean.
This looks awfully feminine to me with its overly large rounded eyes and grille
Not nearly as crisp as the front end of the Accord. I'm not saying the Accord is manly, but I don't think the Lucerne is more manly than the sharper edged Accord.
I know styling is subjective though, so I'm not gonna argue that you are wrong, because neither of us is!
Over the long term you are almost right, over the shorter term - it spells disaster for anyone thinking that new Ford is anything other than yesterday's/yesteryear's product. Unfortunately, they will have no cash to spend to develop anything truly good for quite some time - if they do survive....
Giving workers buyouts and closing plants or shifts will save the company money and prevent them from overproducing and flooding the market with too many vehicles.
What I said is generally true I believe, but not really relevant to what you were saying. I apologize after re-reading.
But, large checks are being written to these 'laid-off' autoworkers, cash that is not available for Ford to anything constructive with in terms of product development. Furthermore, if I understand the UAW contracts with the automakers, one of the most expensive tiems that the Cos. must maintain is the outrageous pension/retirement plans that they agreed to. And I would be willing to bet that this funding will continue even for those that are laid-off.
Ford, as it needs to be right now, is being controlled by the beancounters who logically have no use or appreciation for good cars and unfortunately Bill Ford is no Carlo Ghosn!
Luxurious economy car (with options) or Economical luxury car (less expensive)
Leather interior
Quiet drive
Attractive but not flashy
4-door, easy to get child car seat in and out
Not too big
Feels stable when taking turns or driving 80 mph
Can do well on regular unleaded or mid-grade
Thanks for your input!
maybe my age too.
If you can deal with its ugly interior, the Sonata is cheapest, strong performer, and offers a boat load of features. Only negative is resale value and 'Acceptable' rating in IIHS side impact.
Fusion is super capable, extremely reliable in its first year according to CR, but scores only 'Acceptable' in both IIHS frontal and offset crashes. The class standard is 'Good.
Best thing to do is try for yourself. I'd say skip the Mailbu and G6, but check out the Aura XR if your likings run toward GM.
Finally, don't discount the Subaru Legacy, which is a bit slow with the base engine, but otherwise, an awesome vehicle. And the only midsizer that at $22K MSRP earns an 'IIHS Top Pick Gold' award, or whatever its called. Plus it's got AWD, is more manueverable than the bigger midsizers, and has a great company backing it.
~alpha
By the way, I am a Fusion owner and love this car.. And as some keep bringing up the IIHS crash test.. Acceptable does NOT mean death trap. And, read about how many vehicles score "Good" and for what areas. Test drive! its free.. :shades:
Ah, I see. Your idea of sporty driving is speed; fair enough. It may surprise you, but cars are more than engines and wheels.
I prefer zipping down a two-lane, curvy road (my favorite is a back route to my grandmother's river home, curvy, twisty, and light traffic), and enjoying the excellent handling dynamics my car has to offer (relative to most of its competitors). I have no desire to quarter-mile drag race. Those type of urges left me, about the time I went into my senior year of high school.
And yes, I'm every bit a man for having not floored my new car.
(I have floored my old car numerous times, mainly when I was 16 and stupid and felt that it would be fun to merge at 75 MPH - it was 130 horsepower, so not exactly a race-car).
Leave your gender questions, sarcastic or not, elsewhere. It's a little chlidish.
You are absolutely right, acceptable means what it says, "ACCEPTABLE." You can do better, but it's not "unsafe." It just means there are safer choices out there in that kind of crash.
~alpha
~alpha
Yeah, it was a decent car by 2000 standards though; it just never got an update (other than a slightly revised nose and new taillamps).
I'd recommend a 1-2 year old GM. Not even 20K and has all the goodies, plenty of power, and so on. I'm sure you can find something you like - I was impressed with the Cadillac CTS with the 3.6L engine. 18K asking price at the local dealer. Somehow it struck me as oh... 200% more car than a new Sentra.
Oh - check this out - it looks very masculine to me:
http://www.buick.com/images/gmbp/11004/vehicle/2006/med/298_722J.jpg
Big, black, and nice chrome wheels.
A "tiny bit" more money isn't $6,000, IMO.
That is also a compact, and not gonna fit a growing family as well, or be "economy" minded (I'm assuming you are replying to the message of the buyer from post 8854).
Over $30k for a compact (assuming you can find a base model, no options A4) is steep for that "economy" buyer.
That small of a back seat is gonna be tough to get a car-seat in and out of also, and their websites say they require "Premium, 91 Octane." Doesn't meet many of the requirements for carchase.
To equip the Mercedes with things like a 6CD changer, Leather, heated seats, a sunroof, and an automatic, like the Accord EX-V6 ($25k or less), the vehicle would cost over $37k. 201 hp, or 43 hp less than Accord.
The Audi? Expect to pay $475-$750 for paint colors other than red, white, or black!
Equipped similarly to Accord (except with a manual-passenger seat vs. power in Accord), and a 4-cylinder engine(200 hp) vs. a V6 (244 hp in Accord), the small Audi is over $32k.
Need I mention the latest reliability reports on VW (which owns Audi and shares engines with them) or Mercedes-Benz? The outlook for these german near-luxury compacts isn't good when compared to the Accord in if you are shopping for a car for $25k.
Chrysler, for instance - you get more for your money with several of their cars, and GM - well, GM practically gives their factory certified 1-3 year old cars away.
Chrysler and GM also have 0% finiancing. This is likely what will push me to make a decision, because I can get 0% for 60 months on a Wrangler Unlimited. 22K and vastly improved over the older models. And four doors. And 4*4. And it doesn't handle like a box. With 3-4K down to cover tax and such, that's 20K financed for 60 months, or ~$330 a month.
Toyota and Honda - pay a premium and get no incentives. That 0% will save most people 3-5K over the life of the loan AND make it at least a year quicker that they get right side up on the loan.
If their quality has improved, then they are offering great deals on a lot of cars.
I don't think buying German is the way to go if you want to keep your car on the road (and out of the shop) a lot. Sure, Honda may be more boring than Audi (and the A4 Cabriolet I drove last year didn't blow me away) but it's awfully reliable, which weighs more on some people than a marginally better driving experience.
Different strokes for different folks, as the saying goes. Nobody is wrong.
Hate the imports do ya? Ever try to sell or trade a 3 year old GM car? I have. Took a bath, but it was worth it just to get out of the thing. Bought a Honda Accord, no money down, sold it 3 years later for what I owed on it even with a 6 year loan financing it.
And the Honda Accord was all-around much better made. And more fun to drive.
Yea sure. GM, Chrysler, & Ford are OK. But when Honda and Toyota give you so much more for not so much more money, is it any wonder people want them vs. the domestics?
The GM - I've always said that you buy one a year or two old. As if 20-30K makes any difference these days in reliablity. But what a price difference.
Chrysler isn't any more reliable than Ford, to be sure, but the Wrangler is an exception. If you don't punish it off-road, it lasts quite well. Good depreciation as well, especially for the Unlimited, which is harder to find and honestly, a much better vehicle for everything but rock-crawling.
I have no problems with that. They are also turning out nice cars. As far as reasonably priced family sedans, Accord and Camry are it. Can't think of one GM or Ford product I would buy, possibly with the exception of some the bigger SUVs. Not really impressed with Hyundai products I think the quality is a cut below Honda and Toyota, but then you pay less so that's fair.
As far as paying the price, your premium is my base-line. Basic transportation is the Accent, it doesn't get any more basic than that. Everything else is a luxury.
and before you decide what is or isn't worth the price, compare what you pay for it vs. whatever you can get back for it over the period of time and use you get out of it! The results may surprise you.
I think many of us tend to lose our objectivity when we either own or prefer to own a Honda, Toyota, et. al. Down the road many thousands of miles, check out the cost of replacement of relatively minor parts, such as a water pump, starter, alternator, etc., for many Asian or European cars and compare that to the cost for a Taurus. Heck, you can buy these items for the Taurus at many farm supply and discount houses throughout the Midwest at very reasonable prices. Big difference . . . and, for many conservative people in this country, this is important.
I can't wait for the spin on this one. Please note this is Sales Satisfaction, not quality.
Essentially buyers flock to these products despite the lack of satisfaction with the sales Process. There is a disconnect here which is probably volume-related.
Note that from Infiniti on up to Jag, all these brands are either niche and/or luxury marques. The bulk of the market is just above or just below the mean.
Why can't I devise a money making formula like that.
Finally, Poor Mitsubishi. That car company has just about NOTHING going for it save the Evo, which isn't the hot item it once was (until the redo).
~alpha
Honda and Toyota used to be able to get away with snobby salespeople, MSRP and ADP because they had superior products. With the competition closing the gap they may not be able to get away with that for much longer.
Remember, what Benjamin Disraeli said years ago: "There are three types of lies - lies, damn lies, and statistics."
If you have a bad experience at the dealership buying a new vehicle don't you think you'll be less likely to buy another one than if you had a great experience?
I agree that a bad sales experience with a specific dealer may sour a person on a car, but there are tons of dealers around that would love to sell you another one!