Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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How many people on here have said they won't buy a Ford or Chevy or Chrysler because they had a bad experience with one dealer? Or the opposite - I had a problem and my Honda dealer went out of their way to help me, so I'm buying Hondas now.
Saturn is rated highly because one of the biggest dislikes of many car buyers is the negotiations process, and Saturn has done away with that with a consistent pricing policy. There are some non-Saturn dealerships in my area that have a similar policy, and it does make car buying easier--if you aren't good at negotiating and don't mind that you might not be getting the best possible deal.
Lack of parking... finding a spot to park on a busy Sat afternoon at a Toyota store is near impossible in most urban areas. It's a recurring complaint.
Unknowledgeable salespeople... this is a HUGE negative for any store. Buyers come in to spend $20-$30,000 and the representative a) is barely literate; b) is a greenpea who is well-intentioned but knows nothing; c) has beat down after 1-2 yrs by hustling to make $75/vehicle; d) has little knowledge about what/how a spender of $30,000 expects; e) All of the above.
With a turnover that runs 6-18 months on average the quality of service in a high pressure and high volume environment ...sucks. There are exceptions of course.
Given that on average most sales people do 8-12 units a month. At an average of $75/unit it's hard to impress on the prospect that service is of utmost importance. For $900/mo???
If I'm buying vehicles that are equal, yes. Unfortunately, many vehicles aren't nearly as satisfying as the sales process.
Satisfaction of Buying a car - 1-4 hours of a day
Satisfaction of Driving the car - 5-10 years
I think I'm going with the more satisfying 10 years over the hours. Luckily for us, we love our Honda dealer, and our Hondas; neither have ever let us down.
Truthfully, and though it may be an anomly, our Honda dealer treats us wonderfully (we're on first name bases with many of the staff, etc...). We tried to buy a Ford and my dad walked out for being treated like a child, and our Chrysler experienes were classic "Used Car Salesmen" in the way they acted. At our local dealer (Serra Honda near Birmingham, for those who know the area), we are treated like true friends, and not pressured to shop for a new car every time we are there.
I can stand a not-so-satisfying dealership experience if I like the car a lot but can't justify buying a car that I don't like just because the dealership experience is good.
Simple as that...
Oh, yes--it was a mid-sized car.
Wow - I was expecting spin but here we have outright denial. And it's not just a river in Egypt.
If Honda and Toyota had scored well then the story would be different.
- if somebody is selling anything that is in high demand, and he/she has a choice to spend a whole lot of time 'working at it' or that couple waiting for him that are waiting on him after just driving in with a 5 year old Accord. What do you think he will do when all you can talk about is how much cheaper a Sonata/Fusion or whatever is?
Of course, the high demand car dealers are less prone to be kissing that booty - they don't have the time.
And, furthermore, if it was the Fusion/Sonatas that were selling like hotcakes instead of those Camcords, I assure your silly rankings would be reversed.
Despite the reported lack of satisfaction in the process by the buyers, the vehicles still fly off the lots. That's where the disconnect occurs.
JD Power service satisfaction survey results:
Actually - the same with my wife's Camry. I almost don't care what kind of tude the dealer has. Just sell me the car at the price we agree to, paperwork and all the congrats etc. in 2 hours, and I'll probably never see you again! I DON'T CARE how great your hand-holding is (or isn't).
The oil change place down the street is quicker, less money, and easier to get in and out of than any dealer I know.
Gimme a break.
Why can't I devise a money making formula like that.
*****
Just get into home audio
Exactly. My first Accord was at the dealer two times in 12 years. If you don't like the dealer, don't go back to the dealer. Other shops know how to work on cars. You have to go to a dealer to buy a car, but after that you don't ever have to go there again.
I don't shop for a dealer, I shop for the car. I'm not going to buy a car I don't want, just because I like the salesman's attitude. All that matters is the price.
always have tried (and have been generally successful) at avoiding the car salesman altogether, deal with the sales mgr directly over the phone, the last couple on the internet. Short conversations/emails that end with a take-it/leave-it offer from me (after I have done what I think is enough research on fair pricing for both parties). But, I am sure as heck NOT going to waste my time sitting in some salesman's office haggling over a lousy hundred bucks or so - not worth my time or his. If it ever comes to that I just walk out. There are a number of folks out there that seem to think 'car buying' is SPORT - not in my mind, it is a pain in the booty. Like you, I could care less if that Buick dealer is going to make me feel better or not - in my case I probably never even met the guy!
contact the US government, a couple of well placed contributions and they might just oblige you!
****
And here you thought I was joking.
Honda, Toyota and Nissan dealers have service departments, just like everybody else, where a huge number of cars are serviced (maintenance & repairs). We can also look at the data, which is so much better than anecdotes:
Problems/car in the first 3 years
Toyota ................ 1.8
Honda ................ 1.9
Ford ................... 2.2
Industry Average .. 2.3
Chevrolet ............ 2.4
Nissan ................ 2.4
Umm, they all round to 2 problems/car! :surprise:
I don't think those warranty repairs are being done at the oil change place down the street. Then again, I could wrong. Maybe the 2007 Camry transmissions, for example, are being replaced and reprogrammed over at Quickie Lube. :P
And my total satisfaction with my Accord is, I'm confident, VERY typical.
You hit this right on the money!@ I think in the very near future Honda/Toyota are going to have to wake up! Thier throne is crumbling beneath them. I have purchased a Honda in the past and it was that way in the sales room. Take thier price or leave, someone else will buy it type of attitude. As these surveys/reports start to be read by the consumer more and more will question Honda/Toyota premium prices. It was only a matter of time for this to happen in a free market economy.
That is the whole point here.. Are Cam/cords really that much better? $2,000 - $4,000 better???.. NOPE. Stats show it more and more everyday.. Get out on the net they are there.. Sorry you had to have your bubble burst!.. :surprise:
To you, obviously not. To Honda and Toyota owners, Yep. JUST BECAUSE WE DRIVE HONDAS AND TOYOTAS DOESN'T MEAN WE MADE A WRONG DECISION, SCAPE! Quit implying it!
Texas ( $2 Billion ), Michigan, and Canada.
You obviously missed all the threads earlier in the year about what makes an vehicle American? Is sure isn't the Mexican Fusion.
BTW, where do you think all the materials for the CamCords come from? Outer space? Try St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Gary, IN and Middletown, OH.
I guess older buyers must not complain as much in the surveys. Maybe they are less observant of problems or simply less likely to fill out surveys and make complaints.
Junk survey results ...
GM is doing a vastly better job than they used to and it's showing. GM's old engine and transmission designs are definately close to bulletproof by now. And electrical and fit and finish are way up as well.
Combined with fantastic rebates and 0% financing and so on, which the "Imports" don't usually offer, it's not surprizing that they get high marks in satisfaction.
Add in Toyota's troubles with their transmissions, sludge, and so on and conservative buyers look twice - and guess who else makes midsize and big sedans?
The top-end Buicks(for each model) are quite nice. The LaCrosse CX(IIRC - the one with the VVT engine) is beautiful to drive. The Cadillac CTS is a kick in the pants with the manual transmission, and the Lucerne CXS is a 3/4 price Cadillac DTS.
GM is doing it right - they just need to stop the bleeding and other issues in time.
Heck, even that icon of Americana, the Mustang has a higher level of foreign made (Mexican engines) parts/labor than things like a Camry! GM, OTH, after already moving a good portion of what they do to Canada, seems intent on building, the world's first Chinese Buick! Actually that's old news....
don't know if I buy the old folks argument, thinks one of the things that happen to us as we age, is that we become LESS tolerant and more opinionated because we also are, obviously, more experienced.
http://www.caranddriver.com/dailyautoinsider/12025/honda-and-toyota-win-awards-f- or-highest-resale-value.html
~alpha
This type of statement seems to get thrown out quite often but just doesn't ring true with many. Last July I bought an '05 CR-V EX with auto. The vehicle had an msrp of $24,065. I paid $22,384 which included about $300 in Honda accessories. I even got a few free oil changes out of the deal. The entire purchase took about an hour. No hassles, no attitude, no problems. Was my sales experience satisfactory? Absolutely.
BTW - I haven't had a single problem with the vehicle since purchase.
They only reflect the process of acquiring a vehicle.
The point made was that certain brands may attract less critical personalities. Being less contentious, they themselves may tend to create an easier-flowing process. For example my 83 y.o. father has bought a Mercury Marquis every 3 years from the same exact store, since 1983.
He dosent want to go in and haggle and fight for the last $78 in price.
The younger people who are doing payments are in a hurry and they heard from their friends that the only cars to buy are Hotoy because, well just because. They care only about the payment and the salemen know that. Let me get out of here so I can go buy the new 82inch screen at Best Buy for the OSU/Mich game on Saturday--that's all I care about. Car? 84 months payments, that's fine, just as long as we get finished in time. My kids are irritating me because they're hungry.
Older folk have learned you can leave and another dealer will treat you better. In fact, a lot of older drivers around me seem to have bought Hyundai. Living on a fixed income increases sagacity in the negotiating process.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Yes, this is true. Older folk won't put up with "quote me a car payment" business, they want to know the bottom line - what am I paying for this vehicle - in total. Plus, many older individuals will either pay cash, or finance very little. Learned they have, and what makes older folk better negotiators is that they've put up with all kinds of crap over the years, and they just aren't going to take it from anyone anymore. They're not intimidated by anyone or anything. And, they also know that you can't judge a vehicle - necessarily - by it's name anymore either. After all, they've learned something about marketing over the years too.
I laughed and left. He had been the guy to whom I was referred by the previous salesman who sold me the 1977 who had changed deals.
2-3 days later he called, interrupted me at work, and asked if I was still interested. I had picked up the call on a secretaries phone so I stretched cord into the closet next to her desk and asked him what the heck he thought I was down the on Monday evening for and told him I'd bought a car using a few more words than I've relayed here.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,