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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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I respect your opinion but the 4 door is ugly. The strange dash, the strange instruments and the game machine readout... The design would have been called awful if it were to have come from Ford, but because it has the halo of Honda still working, it's wonderful in some's eyes.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
So, you just happen to be one of the people who don't like the Civic.
If it had come from Ford, it would have been class leading.
Wow, now there's a different opinion. Everybody I know that has seen my '06 Accord dash loves it. It looks high class. They are extremely easy to read, even in direct sunlight. I love the instruments.
To each his own. Just curious, what qualifies as good instruments in your opinion?
That's unbelieveable to me. Any discussion of safety features on a new car should start with stability control. The numbers are staggering--it dramatically reduces the chance of collision. In fact, IIHS just added it as a requirement for vehicles to win their awards:
Stability Control
A new requirement for 2007 is that the winning vehicles must offer electronic stability control (ESC). This addition is based on institute research indicating that ESC significantly reduces crash risk, especially the risk of fatal single-vehicle crashes, by helping drivers maintain control of their vehicles during emergency maneuvers.
More information about the impact that ESC has is here:
http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr061306.html
Now, the Camry, the Accord and the Sonata all have it. The Hybrid Camry, in fact, has the most sophisticated and advanced system in this class--the Lexus VDIM system (other Camry's have a less advanced system that's equivalent to what Honda and Hyundai offer). Hell, my '02 Intrigue had an ESC system.
From what I see, it looks like Ford may add this in '08. Until then, though, I wouldn't recommend buying a Fusion.
Sonata > Mazda 6 > Aura > Fusion > Altima > Camry > Passat > Accord > Legacy
Comments?
Let me take a shot at the list...
Mazda6 > Aura > Altima > Camry > Fusion = Accord > Sonata > Legacy > Passat
Mazda6 > Milan > Passat > the rest, ex. Accord > Accord
Mine..
Camry > Aura > Milan > Fusion >( Accord / Sonata / Malibu ) > Altima
My turn!
Mazda 6 > Fusion > Aura > Altima > Legacy > Passat > Sonata > Accord > Camry
Regardless of the make, sales of the Civic are WAY up compared to the old model. Apparently more people like the vehicle than the old 2005 model. I don't think it's a "halo," but I do think people come back to vehicles and brands that have treated them well in the past. I know we certainly have.
a common misperception about ESC/TRAC systems - they can indeed 'help' a driver maintain control but they do it by disabling systems and inhibiting vehicle responsiveness.
Pick up a copy of the December MT - the Ford Edge tested: paraphrasing -if you try to corner with just a bit of enthusiasm, the Edge will shutdown in mid turn. Does this sound like something you want during an emergency manuever? Maybe you were trying to avoid something and the silly computer decided not to let you. Understand also that these systems must be set at some level below the car's ultimate capabilities - otherwise they wouldn't be a safety feature at all. And this would not just be the Edge or any vehicle in particular, it is getting more common as these now federally mandated (by 2010) systems become more popular.
And I'm not saying that overall that there aren't going to folks saved from their own 'dumbfootedness' - but it will also cost a few as well.
In any case, believe the PC governmental blog if you will and trust some idiot computer programmer to decide what you and your car are capable of doing. I, for one, see a whole line of TV lawyers waiting for those folks that will inevitably contend that they got into an accident 'but it's Toyota's fault, the car went 'dead'. Remember airbags?
The best looking car of the bunch is obviously the Mazda6 (too bad it has a Ford engine) with the Aura a close second.
I'll bet the 08 Accord will rise straight to the top.
If you go around a curve too fast, you either oversteer or understeer. ESC will detect that and apply brakes to one or more wheels (for understeer it brakes the inside rear wheel and cuts power to help turn the front end). This is where it has an advantage over a human - you can't apply the brakes to just one wheel at a time. And I think it's better in 99.9999% of the cases.
I did, personally, have a situation not too long ago where I managed to avoid an accident that several unfortunate folks didn't - by nailing the accelerator and throwing my non-VSC equipped car into a rather violent swerve - something I can't imagine any VSC system worth a salt would have allowed me to do. Guess that would be the .0001%?
In any case, I think there is also some danger in many people thinking somehow they are immune from gross driving errors because somehow they think this 'neat new' safety feature is going to save them when it may or may not, and further, that a lot of this new technology is, at this point, largely untested and unproven. Time will tell.
i think my favorite one to watch will be the lexus self parking feature.
The Lexus VDIM/MB Precollision will be the ones I want to watch - a step or two more invasive, they actually read what it thinks is an impending collision, disables the throttle, tightens your seatbelts, and even apply the brakes for you.
Big words. Remember, a "good looking" design from one person may be hated by another (I think the new Sebring is absolutely horrendous!)
Personally, I think the Mazda 6 is pretty bland, along with Sonata, Malibu, Accord, etc... None are offensive, or break new ground in styling. They are nice cars, with conservative, classy styling.
The Aura looks nice, for sure, challenging the Fusion as the best looking American entry into sensible cars under $30,000.
The Passat is a beautiful car to me as well (although I would never EVER buy a VW with its reliability currently still WELL below average).
To me, the Sonata is very nice, better than most things coming from GM or Ford for the money. I still have no regrets with the getting a 4cyl Accord for $21k when I could have gotten a V6 Sonata (at the time) for $19k. The quality difference (and handling) was well worth it in my eyes. To others, it obviously isn't however.
Having said that you can get by without it. It's an extra insurance policy for sure that potentially help avoid a collision by making sure the driver maintains control of the vehicle.
Wow, now there's a different opinion. Everybody I know that has seen my '06 Accord dash loves it. It looks high class. They are extremely easy to read, even in direct sunlight. I love the instruments.
To each his own. Just curious, what qualifies as good instruments in your opinion?
The instruments on the Accord are well designed. The comments were not directed at the Accord.
Current Honda Civic is the subject being discussed with the strange dash, strange instruments comment.
Speedometer readout from leftover 1980's Timex alarm clocks and two tier dash is example of poor design IMO. Booo....hisss..to the Civic. I thought this example of digital design disaster died in the 1980s with the K-Car as manufacturers returned to traditional, simple and legible gauges. Except for the dash the Civic is very well executed.
Hopefully Honda abandons their Civic dash experiment when the new Accord is introduced as I plan to buy a diesel Accord as long as it is as good as Honda's current Accord and Honda has not screwed up the Accord yet!
Altima 07 > Milan > Dodge Charger > Sebring 07 > Sonata > Aura > Mazda-6 > Legacy > Maxima 07 > Altima 06 > Accord 07 # Camry 07 > Fusion > Passat
(the ones after # I find ugly. The Passat for its ugly attempt to hint at Audi from the front). Among the smaller ones, one of the new Civics looks striking to me (not sure which trim it is). BTW, today I put my money where my mouse is - got myself an Altima 07 in "precision gray"
Wouldn't all views on every aspect of cars be "perceptions?" And can what I "perceive" really be wrong? REALLY?
Since we are talking about it, as far as exterior styling goes (and exterior styling ONLY), here's my list.
Passat > Aura > Legacy > Fusion > Accord > Sonata > 6 > 2007 Camry > Malibu > 2007 Altima > 2007 Sebring
If I missed any, it's because they weren't memorable.
My list of non-luxury midsize cars based on exterior design alone is:
Milan > Fusion > G6 > Aura/Accord > Sonata > Passat > Camry > Sebring/Altima/Maxima/Malibu
I did not include Mazda6 because it is too small to be considered as a midsize car. But next generation will be based on Fusion platform what is sad because smaller cars handle better.
And I still say the 6 is the sharpest styled MS sedan of the bunch, and that the latest Accord is near last (and I'm a Honda lover).
When it comes to the total package tho Accord is tops for their fantastic engineering even with a 5 year old design.
Sorry I apparently made you upset.
It has already been proven reduce accidents.
Agree - Mazda 3 sedan looks great (not the hatchback though) and steers great, for those whose legs can fit inside.
Designers work on the next generations because they have worked on and lived with the car for a number of years prior to release and can foresee how the general public will get bored with the current design.
This proves that style is subjective. A Mustang looks better than a Porsche. Hahahahaha. That's hilarious.
The option list may show it available on almost any version of the Camry, but they don't build them that way. Do the build and price for our zip code on the Toyota.com web site and you will see what option combinations are really available in your region. VSC is really only available on a few produced packages such as a fully loaded XLEV6 with every option.
No, you can't "special order" it for a LE 4 cylinder or any other model that isn't listed in the packages for your region.
If stability control is standard on the 2008 Accord, Toyota may respond with additional availability of VSC on the 2008 Camry, but for now, you can't have it unless you choose one of the very few pre-selected optioned packages for your region.
I would feel much better if my 16 year old daughter had the extra protection of stability control. She's not as expert of a driver as you. I agree that stability control can remove some of the fun of driving a sporty car, which is why I would prefer a cutoff switch for those times when you want to make an educated decision on risk/reward.
Anyways, I thought you'd enjoy an interesting article that touched on some of what you're saying about behavior.
The Hidden Danger of Seat Belts
If Ford charged for a Fusion what a CamCord costs they wouldn't sell any. Kind of like the Sonata story."
Too bad you equate a higher price tag with quality/fit/finish/reliability. Just what Honda and Toyota want people to think. Took the bait I see.. Besides, ever look at the reliabitliy of the Taurs/Sable? Obviously not.. :surprise:
Having said that, I'll take my chances wearing the seat belts...
My opinion, the best styling in this segement goes to the Mazda 3..
My opinion, the best styling in this segement goes to the Mazda 3..
If you can't tell a difference in the Fit and Finish of the Taurus/Sable and the Accord or Camry (you were comparing them, after all), then you shouldn't buy a Honda or Toyota. It WOULD be wasted money to you. For me, I see and feel many many differences in the interior of my Accord and the interior of the Fusion. Differences that would have made me unhappy with the car if I'd saved some cash on.
For me (not everyone, just me) it was a case of spend money and drive a decent car with a V6, or spend the same cash and get a car which completely satisfied my wants for an upscale and highest-possible quality interior, and get the 4-cylinder.
I understand not everyone would make the same choice, and that's ok.
I think the styling remains a moot point on most of these cars.
The Civic was a subcompact last I heard (and saw on the window sticker).
My dad bought a Civic EX yesterday (traded his 2005 Accord - wanted something different since he's had Accords and 1 CR-V since 2000). If you care to venture to the prices paid forum, You'll see that he paid $17,280, which is much less than the price of an LX. Actually, its about $500 under invoice. In that price was the Doc Fee and mudguards; the only other costs were TTL.
He got blue-book on the trade-in, so no low-balling there.
Accord Prices Paid - SE-V6 for $338 under invoice after Doc Fees, click here