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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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Yes, drums in the back will still stop a car - no doubt. I for one, prefer the four wheel disk brakes, and if the car comes with anti-lock or is part of a pkg. deal, will opt for anti-lock brakes next time. To date, I only had one car with anti-lock brakes. They were pretty poor, but then again it was on a '92 Achieva. I assume today we have better equipment available.
-Loren
Someone mentioned not buying a car without ABS. In my case, I'd always opt FOR Anti-Lock brakes, but the 1996 that I have w/o them was a gift (given to me when i turned 15), so i had no choice in the matter.
I realize discs are more resistant to fade, but with my use of the car in Alabama (a hilly, but not strenuous area on brakes) they just aren't necessary for my type of driving.
With these new FWD cars, most of the work is done up front -- actually all too much weight on up front.
-Loren
It should be noted, that when I had the wreck, i was 17, and had never locked-up my brakes at extended-length before. I knew how to pulse them (and had several times in slick road conditions because my old tires were prone to slide - my new Bridgestone Potenza G009s are 200% better in this regard). When i had the wreck, the roads were dry, my adrenaline pumped, and my inexperience showed by me skidding so long that I flat spotted all four tires to the point of the car vibrating over 40 MPH.
With these new FWD cars, most of the work is done up front
More reason that I don't feel strongly in do-or-die with discs versus drums. I'll take discs, I know they are superior in many regards, but I wouldn't pay extra to get them, and that's that. If I lived in a place which caused me to ride my brakes heavily (mountains) I would certainly feel differently.
People do ask us if we're getting a MiniVan. They're half joking because they know I'm such a car nut! We've actually vowed that we're going to try no to get a MiniVan...EVER. We only plan on having 2 kids total, so we think a MiniVan might be excessive.
The long term reliability of Turbos isn't really a factor to me. I think we're long past those days. Before my Prelude I had a 2000 Saab 9-3 that I leased for 3 years. I beat the daylights out of that poor car. I lived in the city and would floor the car merging on to the West Side Highway literally within 2 minutes of starting the car (on very cold winter mornings). Even though I only followed Saab's scheduled maintenance (10K oil changes), I saw no adverse effects of a Turbo in the relatively short time period I had it.
Modern BMWs aren't as bad as many people make them out to be. While they aren't perfect, if you have some problems, many of the dealers have loaner cars with night drop off to accomodate people's needs. Nothing like people getting stranded on the side of the road in the '80s. My parents both drive BMWs. My Dad has an '04 X4 3.0iA Sport Package that will be 3 years old on Valentine's Day. It has over 60,000 miles and has been PERFECT as far as reliability goes. The only trips to the dealer have been 4 times for scheduled maintenance. My Mom drives an '05 530iA that just had it's 2nd birthday. Her car has been in the shop a total of 3 times (all for scheduled maintenance) in 30,000 miles+.
Owning a BMW out of warranty doesn't have to be such a miserable experience. Join BMWCCA and find a good independent mechanic in you area. Many times they charge half what the dealers do and do a great job.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
On the other hand, the car has very light steering and tight turning circle which I like. The exterior styling is good too.
Just stopped by because I've recently seen the pictures of the outside and inside of the 2008 Chevy Malibu and it certainly looks like a car that will go to the top of this heap rather quickly, assuming the driveline etc is up to snuff. Much better looking than anything else I've seen - Camry, Accord, Fusion or Azera.
Top of what heap? Certainly not the one where the CamCord reigns. Probably will pass the Fusion in sales tho.
Yeah, that usually happens when the cars are dumped to fleets and rental agencies. At least half the Malibu's I've seen have an Enterprise sticker on the trunk...
Why try to twist improved styling into a negative aspect?
I never test drove the previous Malibu because it was so ugly that I knew I would never buy it anyway.
I will at least go look at the new Malibu even if I end up buying something else.
Hmm...rebadged version of a car with a two-tone interior. Now who can tell if you are talking about the Mercury Milan or the Chevy Malibu?
In addition, from a performance perspective, AWD was good for cornering as well, even in dry conditions. I was able to accelerate closer to the apex without getting as much understeer. And quick acceleration from a stop was easier since the chance of having power robbing wheelspin was virtually non-existant.
I'm driving a front wheel drive car again, and I've had to make some adjustments. My mazda6 handles quite well in the wet, but in certain instances, AWD would be comforting.
The Passat AWD with Leather costs nearly $36k, and that's before you add things like NAVI or upgraded audio. For a lot of "midsize" buyers, that's just too expensive. It's $2,000 more expensive than vehicles like Acura TL, and that price on the VW doesn't even include the Xenon headlights.
Pricey for something with a VW on the hood. There are cheaper (and if history shows us, more reliable) AWD alternatives to be had in the Subaru and Ford.
The MazdaSpeed 6 is a boutique car. It'll be gone by 2008. Watch. They don't sell enough of them.
The MS6 wasn't even supposed to be around for the '07 model year, since the redesigned 6 was supposed to be ready for '07, as well as the the introduction of the MS3, and the tradition that MazdaSpeed models only last about a year. The '07-model MS6s are esentially carry-over '06 models that (from what I've heard) can only be special-ordered. This may be true, since I haven't seen a '07 MS6 in dealer lots yet...
They don't sell enough of them.
All the more reason to get a loaded Grand Touring for cheap. I've heard of owners negotiating prices to $28.5K for a loaded GT. That's a steal!
As to selling these great new mid-sized cars, there is an interesting article about that I saw yesterday in the Dee-twah News, lemme see if I can find it again.
Yeah, but it'll be well worth it though...
Actually, I think a lot of people (outside of Edumunds forums) would buy a car simply because they think it looks good. For many, many people, a car is just an appliance to get them from place to place...especially in the mid-sized sedan market. They sit it in and if's comfortable and looks good, then they buy it. They're not looking at the cars specifications beyond that it's comfortable and looks good. And in reality, for people that drive an average number of miles and get a new car every few years, then any midsized 4dr sedan could meet their needs.
If someone buys a Fusion, Impala, or whatever because of it's looks and they think it's comfortable, for their basic driving needs and uses then it works for them. Even though we in these forums are comparing the detailed specs, in reality most midsized 4dr sedans are all pretty much the same in their basic function, and the differences shrink every year.
BTW, Mazda6 is at 110 cf and just makes it to the other side of their dividing line.
I did look at Impalas, Fusions, G6s but I only wanted to spend $14K and did not want something with 30,000 miles on it. The Sonata was a good fit for me.
According to our latest (2005) subscriber survey, Japanese and Korean vehicles still have the fewest problems on average: 12 problems per 100 vehicles.
Why doesn't Honda/Toyota get bashed for using the same plaforms? :confuse:
One word. Interior.
That statement doesn't make a lot of sense.
Today's domestics (SOME of them)might have good long term reliability. We'll have to wait a while to see.
Historically that hasn't been the case.
I agree with your comment about the media. I don't think they're biased at all, I think they're just plain stupid. I read the auto reviews, and, most times find them useless because they're simply a reflection of the writer's personal tastes in cars, and, full of misinformation.
I'm in the older demographic you speak of - We're the ones that the domestic boys sold their crap to in the 70's and 80's. .A lot of us now own imports because of that. However, as the domestic boys get their competitive act together, I'm certainly not adverse to giving them another shot at my business. My current fleet consists of both a domestic and an import.
Regards:
Oldengineer
It's the side and rear testing that it does now.
Only redesigned vehicles with immediate predecessors that earned the top rating of good in previous Institute tests are eligible for the verification approach. Substantially redesigned vehicles with significant changes in size, weight, or body style aren't eligible. The Institute will continue testing these vehicles.
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/frontal_test_info.html
So for example, Hyundai was able to submit its own frontal test results for the new Elantra, but the Aura is an all-new model so the IIHS will have to test it.
The IIHS is notoriously slow in doing crash tests and releasing the results.
Not really when its an Accord. How much wider will the margin be when the 08 model appears?
Imagine if it had hot styling that didn't send a few hundred thousand fleeing to Mazda6's, Altimas and the pre-2006 Passats who would have otherwise went with the Accord if it was good-looking.
The new 2008 Accord seems like it's going to be better looking. Hopefully, they don't mess up anything else and simply come out with new generation engines and transmissions that will improve both fuel economy and performance and add the features people will expect on any newly redesigned vehicle such as Bluetooth and smartkey keyless starter on at least upper trim models (maybe remote starter and heated washer fluid too like GM), higher grade nicer-looking leather on leather-equipped models, programmable automatic door locks, VSA on 4 cylinder models and auxillary audio input to the stereo and iPod dock on all models.
I think that's what Honda will do. Maybe add a diesel option for 09. They can't get too cute and take the Accord into AcuraLand.