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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Ah, someone doesn't know how I got the cars (I have explained it before since it is bizarre that a 19 year old has what my parents call the "fleet", but its been awhile)

    The 1996, i got from my grandmother when it had 120k in 2002.

    The new car I got by my parents not having to pay for my college education (I got a scholarship). I didn't pay for the vehicles themselves. My parents decided to keep the old one since its trade-in would be only a few thousand dollars, and wanted to use it as out "beater" car, although it is in great shape. I don't have the kind of money to throw around on cars, but I walked into a "honkin" schoarship - instead, i save a lot of what I make for a down payment on a home. Now, my parents are moving to OKC, OK and don't want to drive the 1996 across the country, so they are leaving the 1996 with me, as well as my 2006.

    I know, it doesn't add up until you get the full story, but you can thank good ACT scores and generous Financial Aid Staff at UAB for my 2006 Accord. Actually, I should thank them!

    Oh, and the 25,000 miles a year should be less this year. I stopped dating my (now ex-) girlfriend who lives 27 miles from my house. I do still commute 14 miles one-way to school each day, but its cheaper than living on campus.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I also live in LA and drove 3 hrs to buy a car from Holmes. The fees were exactly as stated, price was under invoice,and whole process took less than an hour. Three different dealers in my area were all about 1500.00 more and refused to deal. I thought it was worth the drive.
    I bought an EX-L V6 for 24,200.00 + TT&L. The title and license fees were 190.00


    These are as real-world as I can get without surveying buyers at the actual dealership. Guess you were right - $25.5k for an Accord isn't real-world. Guess it's more like $24.5k. For the Fusion, it's looking to be around $23k.

    For me, the Accord's interior alone looks worth the price difference because it doesn't have the blocky parts-bin look. With blocks like that in the interior, I just get the feeling that the climate controls and stereo are made to fit several different cars, not necessarily to be ergonomically friendly or stylish.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    some of that is more that i need to know. i told my high school senior that i would buy them a car, if they went to uconn, but no deal. in the future, just think about finding a place to live near where you work. it saves a lot of commuting time and probably expenses too. that way you can afford the next gen NSX. :)
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    No telling where I'll end up working...but I'll definitely keep a short commute in mind. Sorry if that's heavy on the details. :-)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    don't go to work in san diego. your job would by 'high in the low 70's, partly cloudy'. :D
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    haha... well, Ive actually taken more to the newswriting part of broadcasting, so it may be reporting out in that weather instead of forecasting!
  • exshomanexshoman Member Posts: 109
    andres3 wrote: Completely wrong... I'd wager there isn't a Dodge car out there (don't count that trucks) that can reach 100K miles without seriously dipping into thousands and thousands of dollars in repairs.

    How much do you want to wager? Other than normal maintenance (oil changes, tune up @ 100k, brake pads), I haven't put a since cent into my 2000 Chrysler 300M. True, it's not a Dodge, but I'm guessing that you'd lump these two together.

    Still going strong at 115k. It's a great looking, powerful, fully optioned, comfortable car that handles like it's on rails. It gets pretty decent gas mileage for a large car. I average 24 in my commute, which is 50% winding, hilly, roads, 50% often congested highway. Purely highway driving can get 28-30.

    We also have a 2006 Accord EX-L (was supposed to be my wife's car), and it is a nice vehicle, but given a choice we still prefer to drive the 7 year old 300M.
  • neteng101neteng101 Member Posts: 176
    How much insurance do you pay extra to keep the beater around? I suspect it costs you more to insure those 2 cars than it does to be paying an extra $25 a month and be driving around in a single car with a V6.

    Insurance when its more cars > drivers seems to be a total rip off.

    When you're done with school... get a new V6! You're too young to be wasting away in an I4 and driving grandma's old car. :shades:
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    if you can identify with this - my college ride was a 1970 'Buick' Opel, a small tin can you've probably never heard of, 60hp 1100 cc engine about the size of a sewing machine, maybe 2000 lbs or so, and probably didn't do as well as your Accord on a gallon of gas.
    Obviously you understood the real point - at 20 or 24k miles/year, you are certainly not going to lease anything for 4 years economically, leaving a purchase as the only option. Car payment size, therefore, likely in the $5-600.00 range at which point I'm suggesting that $25-$50 shouldn't make THAT much difference to the buyer.
    Congrats on your scholarship, you are doing yourself as well as your folks a service, because even if you got the new Accord because of the scholarship, the fact is that if you didn't have it, they would still likely be providing some sort of wheels and footing the bill to keep it running. You and your folks both win. And yeah, back in the 70's, if I ever had $25 in my pocket, I was wealthy!
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    my son who took an Altima 4 banger off to school was costing about $1400.00.year to insure - no tickets or accidents. My daughter who had the same thing, a few hundred cheaper.
    Never heard of any Accord being termed 'grandma's car', in spite of my own strong perferences for the better V6s in this group as well, that term reserved for 'Buicks?
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    They were all estimates. Camry is new as well.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I also noticed they were sending relatively highline models to the fleets. My folks got a V6 Sonata with leather and a sunroof last time they were in the midwest. That might be a general trend, the last Taurus I got had leather and moon too.

    Maybe this is because retail buyers are willing to pay up for leather and moonroof. So perhaps it ends up being a cheaper net cost to the rental company to buy cars with these features.

    They probably pay a heavily discounted price for adding these and then turn around and sell their used vehicles at a premium price, because they have a hole in the roof and dead animal skin on the seats ;) .
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Actually, since the folks wanted to keep the 96, they pay the insurance on it, not me. Luckily for me, they have said they will keep doing so, even when they move off to the midwest.
  • micro99micro99 Member Posts: 51
    We`ve found out that your grandmother gifted you the car -then we`ve found out that your folks pay the insurance on the car - what`s the next big secret to come out ? Maybe we`ll find out that the reason you are getting such great gas mileage is because your siblings are secretly paying the gas bar attendant to put more gallons in the tank than you are charged for ?? :o)
    P.S. please accept this as my poor effort at contributing some humour to this thread - absolutely no offense intended .
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,672
    Maybe that family could adopt me? I have insurance bills, cars to buy, gas to fill... ;)

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    haha, no offense taken. Actually, I've converted the car to run purely on bacon grease, so my gas mileage is actually unlimited MPG. I haven't shared all this info before, because frankly, it was pretty irrelevant to the conversation. But, now ya know.

    By the way, about the bacon grease...

    :) Kidding, of course.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Well, I'm sure I'll get ragged about this (in fact, VERY sure), but I'm the only child of two only children, making me the only GRANDCHILD. It has its perks, you might say. I still have to work my butt off though, it's not all handouts and lollopops, but I am VERY blessed with the family God gave me.

    I'm sure there's room for one more "long lost cousin." :-)
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    you'll need to bump your compression ratio a bit to run that bacon grease. ;)
    In all seriousness, I expect that Honda will redefine this segment with 150 HP/300 lb ft diesel (maybe even a 4 banger)sooner than you think, and/or wrest FE honors from the TCH with a diesel/electric combo.
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    I think it's a wonderful thing thegraduate's parents did for him. We've done the same thing for our daughter, albeit on a much lesser scale.

    Objectively, however, it does tend to change the debate a bit when one is given a car as a gift. Would I take an Accord over a Sonata if I didn't have to pay for it out of my own pocket? You betcha' - but, when I'm trying to maximize the bang-for-my-buck, and maximize overall value and safety features, the Sonata becomes much more attractive, as well as perhaps even other alternatives.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I understand your point. I knew the target amount I could spend on a vehicle, and had the options of having several different V6 models of cars (like an SE-V6 Fusion or a GLS V6 Sonata). Personally, my dad was biased towards the Honda since he had one at the time (a 2005 EX cloth), and was happy that I chose a similar vehicle. He was disappointed in the Ford, and, while he liked what the Sonata offered, he was still nervous about their history.

    I get my nit-pickiness from my father, so he understood why I also loved the Accord enough to get a 4-cyl over one of these other alternative V6s.
  • oldcemoldcem Member Posts: 309
    Don't know what you're smoking! I buy Dodges and Chryslers for business travel. My last 14 all made it to 100K with no problem.

    Regards:
    Oldengineer
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "I'd wager there isn't a Dodge car out there (don't count that trucks) that can reach 100K miles without seriously dipping into thousands and thousands of dollars in repairs."

    Hmmm, that's kind of funny. Through its first 100,000 miles our 1998 3.8 liter Dodge Grand Caravan cost us well under $100 for unscheduled maintenance (a couple of head light bulbs, and a door switch), and now as its nearing 150,000 miles, its still going strong.

    Then there is our 2003 3.8 liter Dodge Grand Caravan with a little over 80,000 on the clock. That one has required an ABS sensor, one set of sway bar bushings and one brake light bulb. Total cost? About $350.

    Funny thing about the DC minivans, there are folks out there that are pushing 400,000 miles on them, and without significant problems I might add. I was in a DC minivan taxi a couple of years back an that thing was showing about 320,000 miles. I asked the owner/operator about it and he said he figured that he'd probably keep it until the 500,000 mile mark and then get a new one. Not too shabby.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    I'd wager there isn't a Dodge car out there (don't count that trucks) that can reach 100K miles without seriously dipping into thousands and thousands of dollars in repairs.

    Wrong.

    My wife's '00 Neon (yes, a Neon of all things) is knocking on 100K miles and the largest repair bill (besides regular maintenance) was $850 for a comprehensive claim on insurance, which all but $50 was covered.

    Other than that, it's been flawless.
  • targettuningtargettuning Member Posts: 1,371
    1995 Dodge Stratus ES 2.5 liter V-6...178,500 miles.
    Replaced struts, shocks, various front end bits e.g. tie rod ends, plugs/wires X 2 sets, tires, brake pads and shoes, rotors, A "new" used ABS controller and a new starter motor.
    Original transmission (BG power flush only last fall)..engine (Mobil 1)...exhaust system incl. muffler (stainless steel)..power steering pump and alternator. All original window motors and switches, upholstry etc.
    Not totally trouble free but still looks and runs great and provides as much as 29 mpg on the road
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Doesn't sound too bad, as things like mufflers, brakes, and tires all eventually wear out. The power-steering pump and alternator and front-end suspension parts sound like our old Chrysler Sebring Convertible (based on your Stratus), except yours has 170k+ miles as opposed to ours that needed a suspension rebuild at less than 35k miles. Ours also had transmission troubles, but it was the 2.4L.
  • readerreaderreaderreader Member Posts: 253
    Reading thru this board I sometimes feel that too many people forget that the intangibles are usually more important than the actual individual numbers when comparing vehicles.

    For example, some people will only buy an American car because they think it's the patriotic thing to do. Some young men will only consider a sporty 2 door car because they think it will make them look cooler to the hot ladies. Some people won't buy a Hyundai because they don't want co-workers or friends to make fun of them and embarass them for buying a Hyundai.

    Although numbers certainly play a part in comparing two like makes and models when both would be acceptable to the buyer, I think the intangible factors are more important. To the young man it doesn't matter that the sports car is unreliable or that the insurance is higher - getting hot girls is more important. Doesn't matter that the Sonata is cheaper than the similar Accord - Joe knows people at work will think less of him and make fun of him if he gets the Hyundai. To the guy who thinks its his patriotic duty to buy American he will take an unreliable Malibu over a Camry.

    Just my thoughts that intangibles are more important to alot of people than the actual numbers. Anyone agree or disagree?


    ------------------------
    Please show us the figures that make you conclude that the Malibu is "unreliable".
    It may not be the "best"--hence its redesign--but it is in no way "unreliable".

    Redesign--

    Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

    Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

    Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

    Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

    "Image" may be important to some shallow types, but it isn't to everyone.
  • neteng101neteng101 Member Posts: 176
    Personally, I think the 300C/Charger/Magnum are far more "patriotic American" image-wise than a Malibu will ever be. RWD + V8 Hemi, classic American muscle!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    They're also full-size and in a different price class than the vehicles in this discussion. There's not a mid-size rear-driver with a V8 that I'm aware of. Heck, just a rear-driver is unavailable in midsize-land I think.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    I don't need figures. All I have is an example. My father's Malibu was a piece of crap. I would not say unreliable, because it will get you from A to B. The suspension is noisy, the power steering growls, doesn't have the power a V6 should have, the engine sounds crude, and it has been in the shop for ignition, cooling system, brakes, and always has a bulb burnt somewhere. Sure it's reliable, but not even close to quality, or refined. Simply put, it's a sad excuse for a car.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Personally, I think the 300C/Charger/Magnum are far more "patriotic American" image-wise than a Malibu will ever be. RWD + V8 Hemi, classic American muscle!

    If I have to have a gas guzzler V8 to move the RWD behemoth, just call me a traitor. Problem is Domestic companies can't make V6s or I4s that compete well with Japanese cars.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    "Doesn't matter that the Sonata is cheaper than the similar Accord - Joe knows people at work will think less of him and make fun of him if he gets the Hyundai. To the guy who thinks its his patriotic duty to buy American he will take an unreliable Malibu over a Camry."

    The same can be said for those who will not touch an "American" vehicle. There are two sides to this story. Reliability is a non-factor anylonger. Image is what GM/Ford need to over come now..
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    My Accord was unreliable.. does that make them all unreliable? Should in your book..
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    My Accord was unreliable.. does that make them all unreliable? Should in your book..

    I've been driving Accords for 15 years (92 for 12 years, and 03 for 3 years) and MY experience tells me they are better than anything else I've driven. Mr. Fusion's opinion certainly isn't going to change that. I've driven many GM cars since then, and they don't measure up. The only Ford I've driven lately is a Grand Marquis, and it didn't impress (big floaty boat, just like domestic large cars have always been). After you've been driving Accords for 15 years, you can feel a domestic with your eyes closed, from a 1 mile ride.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    It's because, unlike the Accord, the Grand Marquis hasn't really changed since you got your 1992 Accord. Same 4.6L engine, same dated interior, same basic design. It makes a whopping 224 horsepower from nearly 5.0 Liters of engine. Ford's own 3.0L Fusion makes nearly that.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Tug boat.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Hmmm. Seeing that Mullaly just went public with Ford's new interest in bringing some Euro models over to our shores ('bout time!!!) I thought this might fit in somewhere. Especially given the similarity of the front ends.

    image

    image
  • stevehechtstevehecht Member Posts: 96
    "The styling mess of this Accord is its biggest shortcoming.
    Imagine if it had hot styling that didn't send a few hundred thousand fleeing to Mazda6's, Altimas and the pre-2006 Passats who would have otherwise went with the Accord if it was good-looking."
    [jaxs1]

    Appreciation of styling is a personal matter.

    For instance, rather than "fleeing" to the Altima, Mazada6, or Passat, I went exactly the other direction and traded in my 1999 Passat for a '07 SE V6 Accord (Royal Blue Pearl) because the refreshed styling of the '06-'07 Accord (particularly in RBP) looks better to me than the Altima or the Mazda6--and especially better than the previous Gen7 Accord. I loved the look of my B5 '99 Passat, but the rear of the B6 Passat gives the car a "pufferfish" look; the Altima's styling has never seemed more than mediocre to me; the Mazda6's rear profile is weak without the spoiler. With the spoiler the styling of the Mazda6 is good, but I prefer the Accord's. To be specific, to me the Accord has gravitas--dignified, powerful (as the V6 is), and self-confident, with just a touch of sportiness as befits a well-handling family sedan--in a word, handsome.

    I had never looked at the Accord before the '06 restyling, and certainly never considered buying one, but the restyled rear end made all the difference. (I might not have bought the car without having the Royal Blue Pearl color option, though the white is pretty striking as well.)
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Appreciation of styling is a personal matter.

    It certainly is, but its nice when you find a great machine wrapped up in a beautiful package. Honda does it better than anyone, but the latest Accord has gotten very, very stale. The 08 should make a huge statement.

    But I checked out an 07 Altima 2.5S tonight. What a beautiful car. The only 4cyl out there that'll give the Accord 4 a run for its money. What a great looking package. Quick, comfortable, much improved interior, CVT. Kudos to Nissan. Honda's next up to stir the pot.

    Toyota, Honda and Nissan will leave the Sonata & Fusion looking ancient.
  • stevehechtstevehecht Member Posts: 96
    It certainly is, but its nice when you find a great machine wrapped up in a beautiful package. Honda does it better than anyone, but the latest Accord has gotten very, very stale.

    Yeah, I suppose that could be true for people looking at the Gen7 for five years running. Like I said I never looked at the <'06 Accord, so '06 refresh didn't look stale to me!
  • neteng101neteng101 Member Posts: 176
    Toyota, Honda and Nissan will leave the Sonata & Fusion looking ancient.

    I'm sure someone's going to tell you that the Fusion's getting redesigned in '09. That's more like a facelift in reality. What I wonder is how long Ford will use the Fusion platform... the Focus platform is old as molases and even the '08 Focus coming out is still stuck on same old lousy platform instead of being Euro Focus based.

    Accords are rather commonplace so I guess no matter what they do, it will seem a bit stale... I do like the re-design for the '06/'07s. Love the tail end look, so so on the front end. Love the new alloys on the V6, but not the ones that come with the 6MTs.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    My wife's '00 Neon (yes, a Neon of all things) is knocking on 100K miles and the largest repair bill (besides regular maintenance) was $850 for a comprehensive claim on insurance, which all but $50 was covered.

    It looks like you spoke too soon!!! As it is highly likely that at 99,599 miles that 00 Neon will spontaneously require new head gaskets, a new trasmission, a new windshield, a new gas tank seal, a new parking brake, a new starter, cabling, and wiring, new AC compressor, and will have 100 rattles.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    new head gaskets

    It's a second-gen model, the one without the head gasket issues that plagued the first-gen models.

    a new trasmission

    Doubt it. The traNsmission is a manual, and the clutch is still in great shape.

    a new windshield

    That's considered a comprehensive claim on insurance, and since I have 100% glass, it won't cost me a dime. Besides, you don't count road hazards (ie. a truck flinging a rock at the windshield) as "problems".

    As for the other items, I'll let everyone else know as soon as they happen. It already has 100 rattles, but my wife doesn't care, since it's long since paid off, and we'll get her a new car this summer anyway.

    Face it, buying ANY car is a risk, whether it's a Fusion or Accord. Automakers have lemons, as well as stellar examples that run practically forever.
  • targettuningtargettuning Member Posts: 1,371
    Won't buy a Hyundai because they might get made fun of??? Get real, people at work and everywhere else are starting to realize Hyundai is worthy of purchase. Man this thinking (rationale) is soooo obsolete. Point of fact, my youngest brothers wife JUST bought a 2007 Tucson 2 weeks ago. Both my brothers and father as well have purchased n-o-t-h-i-n-g but Subaru for at least 20 years. I asked what happened to Subaru and recent disatisfaction with reoccuring bad headgaskets plus pricing that headed for the stratosphere prompted them to take the blinders off..they saw Hyundai and the rest, as they say, is history.
  • booyahcramerbooyahcramer Member Posts: 172
    Hyundai's biggest appeal is the lower prices. Period.

    People think what they think about Hyundai. That is hardly obsolete.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    Maybe not obsolete, but certainly misguided and not educated.

    After all, JD power seems to like Hyundai, only falling behind Porsche and Lexus in initial quality.

    Buying a Hyundai 10 years ago may not have been a good idea, but times have changed, and so has Hyundai.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Buying a Hyundai 10 years ago may not have been a good idea, but times have changed, and so has Hyundai.

    I think the same could be said for a number of companies, although I loved my 10 year old Ford, it was remarkably durable for what it went through.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Again, we are here to talk about the cars produced by the manufacturers, not the manufacturers themselves. Debate about the manufacturers are appropriate on the Automotive News & Views board, but not here.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    Okay, let me rephrase my statement:

    Buying a Sonata 10 years ago may not have been a good idea, but times have changed, and so has the Sonata. :)
  • micro99micro99 Member Posts: 51
    The difficulty here Pat is that many (most) posters cannot discuss the relative meits of cars on an objective basis, focussing on performance, buid quality and materials quality, reiability .etc . They inevitably revert to strongly held views based on `the badge` !! It contributes nothing of value to the reader .
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    I agree totally, take the TCO numbers mean nothing. Having owned an 01 Escape for 5 years and 75,000 miles. The cost repairs Edmunds claimed I was supposed to have, never happened. My TCO was for 1 brake job and 1 set of new tires the whole time I owned the Escape. TCO is not real world.
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